Help with Car Audio
10-10-2005, 09:44 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Trenton, NJ
Posts: 137
Help with Car Audio
I have 2 13W6V2's connected to a JL 1000/1 and am also running Boston Acoustic Pro60s on a JL 300/4. I have two monster 1 farad caps, running 4 guage wiring, and am running with a normal battery and stock alternator. When my volume is up my amp trips on hard bass notes. It would cut and then come back on over and over again. I talked to the guys at tweeter and they told me if I get a 5 farad cap, I will be able to blast the bass as loud as I want without any tripping. I would like to get any other suggestions on what I could do to fix my problem.
10-10-2005, 09:57 PM
#2
a capacitor doesnt do much dude (its like a bandaid in your system..only a temp solution)....a 5 farad it will make you alternator work 2x as hard..because it charges and discharges ever like few seconds...so you alternator will be powering your amp, speakers, sub, HU, and all electronics components...and now instead of a two 1 farad...a 5 farad which is gonna be insane on draining life from you alternator...i recommend you get a second battery and an alternator charges 2 batteries at the same time and hook up you amp inidivudally to you other battery (the new one) and let the dual alternator charge the car battery and you spare one for the system..just my .02 
10-11-2005, 05:21 AM
#4
Originally Posted by PandaXpress
a capacitor doesnt do much dude (its like a bandaid in your system..only a temp solution)....a 5 farad it will make you alternator work 2x as hard..because it charges and discharges ever like few seconds...so you alternator will be powering your amp, speakers, sub, HU, and all electronics components...and now instead of a two 1 farad...a 5 farad which is gonna be insane on draining life from you alternator...i recommend you get a second battery and an alternator charges 2 batteries at the same time and hook up you amp inidivudally to you other battery (the new one) and let the dual alternator charge the car battery and you spare one for the system..just my .02
10-11-2005, 06:41 AM
#5
Originally Posted by ObsidianIce69
I agree with the info about the 5 farad cap, but not the second battery or second alternator. You're using a decent amount of power but not nearly enough to warrant all that. I would do the big 3 like Ascendant said and definitely run thicker cable and see how that works. If still having trouble you could look into better battery and alternator options, the 5 farad cap is pretty much unnecessary for what you're using.
yes..i would do what Obsidian and Ascendant say first..if that works...saves you alot of money. What i recommended was just like a laqst resort. 
10-11-2005, 06:45 AM
#6
You need a big 3 upgrade and a deep cycle battery as a stock or maybe as an extra battey with an isolator if you choose to get a 2nd batt. Also I'm not real knowledgeable on JL stuff but is that 1000/1 a class d? I would get something more efficient for driving subs if it's not, meaning something with class d technology.
10-11-2005, 08:09 AM
#10
#1. Remove current capacitors and don't add anymore.
#2. Big-3, in 0gauge.
#3. YellowTop deep cycle.
#4. Upgrade your main power wire from 4gauge to 0gauge.
#5. If those don't help in getting more current to your amp to prevent it from going into protection, upgrade your alternator.
Did Tweeter do the install? I had no idea they were putting in 1000+watt systems using 4gauge power. Especially considering how finicky those JL amps are.
#2. Big-3, in 0gauge.
#3. YellowTop deep cycle.
#4. Upgrade your main power wire from 4gauge to 0gauge.
#5. If those don't help in getting more current to your amp to prevent it from going into protection, upgrade your alternator.
Did Tweeter do the install? I had no idea they were putting in 1000+watt systems using 4gauge power. Especially considering how finicky those JL amps are.
10-11-2005, 11:18 AM
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Trenton, NJ
Posts: 137
someone gave me a suggestion that installing a batcap would solve my problem. my amp cuts when my capacitors read a voltage of about 10. Normally its around 13.5. I was told that with the batcap i can add another 1.5 volts.
10-11-2005, 11:40 AM
#13
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Trenton, NJ
Posts: 137
i contacted tweeter and all they keep telling me is i need to upgrade to a 5 farad cap. they said they've installed many JL 1000/1s with 4 guage wiring and have never had problems with it
10-11-2005, 12:19 PM
#14
I tend to get a bit irritable
iTrader: (151)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central Jersey
Posts: 17,671
Originally Posted by TriniRicanPapi
i contacted tweeter and all they keep telling me is i need to upgrade to a 5 farad cap. they said they've installed many JL 1000/1s with 4 guage wiring and have never had problems with it
10-11-2005, 12:52 PM
#15
Originally Posted by filtor1
#1. Remove current capacitors and don't add anymore.
#2. Big-3, in 0gauge.
#3. YellowTop deep cycle.
#4. Upgrade your main power wire from 4gauge to 0gauge.
#5. If those don't help in getting more current to your amp to prevent it from going into protection, upgrade your alternator.
X2
#2. Big-3, in 0gauge.
#3. YellowTop deep cycle.
#4. Upgrade your main power wire from 4gauge to 0gauge.
#5. If those don't help in getting more current to your amp to prevent it from going into protection, upgrade your alternator.
X2
Big 3
ground(-)batt to chassis
ground(-)chassis to engine block
power (+)alt to battery
10-11-2005, 03:18 PM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 184
they want you to buy a cap because they are one of the most profitable car audio pieces for them to sell! one other thing to possibly look at...i know some amps are very picky about the votage they see both in the power/ground AND the remote. If you are running both amps off the same remote wire, and with your car only running at 13.5V you, it might be dropping too low...a simple relay would take care of that issue.
10-11-2005, 04:27 PM
#20
stay away from the batcap crap. they have very high ESR, which means they can't dump current quickly like they need to (that's the point in a cap), and they actually cause a drain on your battery.
good quality electrolytic capacitors put a very very small drain on your battery and have very low ESR, so they can discharge quickly to help keep the voltage ripple down..
I recommend 1-2 Farads in GOOD QUALITY ELECTROLYTIC caps..
You need a good battery.. Optima Yellow top, or a big Interstate battery with at least 800CCA and > 90 A/H reserve power will do the trick. expect to pay $100-200 for a battery like that.
AND you need to upgrade your power and ground wires.
you should be using 2awg absolute minimum, 1/0 is ideal.
you're running a total of 140A fused with just thow two amps.. 4 awg wire will drop well over 1V for that amount of current.
If you go up to 1/0 wire on your +12V and ground, then you're going to make that drop in voltage about 1/3 of what it was previously.
Just to play around, check out this flash program.. stick some numbers in there (1/0 wire is actually "0" gauge... 2/0 is "00" and so on... substitute in 0 in those numbers and see what happens.)
http://www.bcae1.com/images/swfs/vol...oughsystem.swf
edit.. there's allll kinds of handy calculators on this page... I'm bookmarking this one for myslelf.
http://www.bcae1.com/wire.htm
good quality electrolytic capacitors put a very very small drain on your battery and have very low ESR, so they can discharge quickly to help keep the voltage ripple down..
I recommend 1-2 Farads in GOOD QUALITY ELECTROLYTIC caps..
You need a good battery.. Optima Yellow top, or a big Interstate battery with at least 800CCA and > 90 A/H reserve power will do the trick. expect to pay $100-200 for a battery like that.
AND you need to upgrade your power and ground wires.
you should be using 2awg absolute minimum, 1/0 is ideal.
you're running a total of 140A fused with just thow two amps.. 4 awg wire will drop well over 1V for that amount of current.
If you go up to 1/0 wire on your +12V and ground, then you're going to make that drop in voltage about 1/3 of what it was previously.
Just to play around, check out this flash program.. stick some numbers in there (1/0 wire is actually "0" gauge... 2/0 is "00" and so on... substitute in 0 in those numbers and see what happens.)
http://www.bcae1.com/images/swfs/vol...oughsystem.swf
edit.. there's allll kinds of handy calculators on this page... I'm bookmarking this one for myslelf.
http://www.bcae1.com/wire.htm
10-11-2005, 05:47 PM
#25
dude plain and simple if your going to run it, then go ahead and run it. DON (PEARLMAX) is the Audio Video Mod. If your going to argue about it, do it, then come back and tell us how it didnt help. ASCENDANT is pretty knowledgeable as well.
Now if your drawing more power than your getting to the rear what happens? Your voltage drops. You dont have the amperage to run what you want on that wire. To get more you either maximize what you have (UPGRADE THE BIG Three and WIRES) or you keep running your amp into protection/safe mode/limp mode or whatever.
Now if you want to address the problem, as its already identified my amp cuts when my capacitors read a voltage of about 10. Normally its around 13.5. Your not getting the 14.4 volts you should to the back. Adding a CAP does not add to the voltage Going to the back, IT HOLDS WHATS THERE. So what now? YOU RUN MORE VOLTS BACK. IE Better Battery in the front, Minimize Voltage Drop (BIGGER WIRE-LESS BREAKS IE DISTRO BLOCKS), Maximize the voltage you have (BIG 3), UPGRADE THE ALT (When you get serious), and for s*%$# and giggles you can add a deep cycle in the back and proper isolation setup (GO WITH THE WIRED MBR70 IF YOUR UP TO IT) from there you should read 14.4 at the back and have enough amperage to do like your cousin and maybe run 2 300.2s
As well im the av mod on The Sphere, check out an article here Click Me and it should break it down for you...
Now if your drawing more power than your getting to the rear what happens? Your voltage drops. You dont have the amperage to run what you want on that wire. To get more you either maximize what you have (UPGRADE THE BIG Three and WIRES) or you keep running your amp into protection/safe mode/limp mode or whatever.
Now if you want to address the problem, as its already identified my amp cuts when my capacitors read a voltage of about 10. Normally its around 13.5. Your not getting the 14.4 volts you should to the back. Adding a CAP does not add to the voltage Going to the back, IT HOLDS WHATS THERE. So what now? YOU RUN MORE VOLTS BACK. IE Better Battery in the front, Minimize Voltage Drop (BIGGER WIRE-LESS BREAKS IE DISTRO BLOCKS), Maximize the voltage you have (BIG 3), UPGRADE THE ALT (When you get serious), and for s*%$# and giggles you can add a deep cycle in the back and proper isolation setup (GO WITH THE WIRED MBR70 IF YOUR UP TO IT) from there you should read 14.4 at the back and have enough amperage to do like your cousin and maybe run 2 300.2s
As well im the av mod on The Sphere, check out an article here Click Me and it should break it down for you...
10-11-2005, 05:50 PM
#26
And that link is pulled from an old sponsor of my last car GOHO Auto Audio, I was setup by kenny giba who was the orion east coast rep at one point. if that comes off a shop site that will sell you a cap, but are just honest enough to tell you You dont need it
10-11-2005, 06:07 PM
#29
give what a try? try the big three first. You can make that on your own with some regular wire, and it really helps voltage stay up. My 1200d drops me down to about 13.5 on a note if its extended, i get down to about 12.9 usually not too much farther down than that. The JLS are really good as far as output staying constant from 11.9 or so up to 14.4 but they can only do so much.
Try the big three and you should be alright to start. From there work your way up.
Try the big three and you should be alright to start. From there work your way up.
10-11-2005, 06:07 PM
#30
Originally Posted by TriniRicanPapi
but isn't 4 guage wiring sufficient for a 1000 watt amp. my cousin ran a 13W7 with a JL 1000/1 and 4 guage wiring and never had a problem like this
10-11-2005, 08:58 PM
#34
I work at Tweeter, and I can tell you that upgrading your grounds will benefit you more than anything else. The only other thing to consider is where the ground for the amps are. Are you using a sheet metal screw, or a nice big bolt with lockwasher through a thick are of metal? You should need 1 farad for every 1000 watts of power. Who did the install? Measure the voltage at the battery, and measure the voltage at the amp. You should lose almost 1.2 volts with 4 guage from the front to back. If you are losing more than that with you sytem on, than you need to upgrade the power wire too. I have 0 guage in my car, and would recommend that to you for the power you are running. There is no one on here that will tell you that bigger isn't better for power and ground.
Yes, Maxgtr2000, it is a class D amp, and a very good one at that.
Yes, Maxgtr2000, it is a class D amp, and a very good one at that.
10-12-2005, 08:04 PM
#38
13.5 is still fine.
crank the system up to full power and then redo those measurements. I bet you're going to be losing a couple volts, minimum. when the amp starts crapping out, you're likely going to be seeing 10V or less at the amp. (don't test at the cap, check voltage across the +- terminals at the amp. that's what the amp itself is seeing)
Also realize you're arguing with people who have been doing installs for 10+ years, while others have a degree in electrical engineering. Some of us have both of those qualities under our belt. some of us also design this stuff for a living. we know what we're talking about.
crank the system up to full power and then redo those measurements. I bet you're going to be losing a couple volts, minimum. when the amp starts crapping out, you're likely going to be seeing 10V or less at the amp. (don't test at the cap, check voltage across the +- terminals at the amp. that's what the amp itself is seeing)
Also realize you're arguing with people who have been doing installs for 10+ years, while others have a degree in electrical engineering. Some of us have both of those qualities under our belt. some of us also design this stuff for a living. we know what we're talking about.
10-12-2005, 08:09 PM
#39
as for how to fit the wires into your amps, what you'll want to do is run the 0 awg wire to a distribution block in the back. from there, you will run your cap and amp power wires from there in 4 awg since that's the biggest the amps can use. make the short run to the cap in 0 awg since you're using terminals there anyway. make those 4awg sections as short as possible to keep the resistance down and voltage drop to a minimum.
10-12-2005, 08:09 PM
#40
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Trenton, NJ
Posts: 137
don't take it the wrong way. i'm not trying to argue with anyone. i'm just asking questions. i just want to know how i can fit a 0 guage wire into the hole of the amp because 4 guage just barely fits.