Opinions need on Midbass...
11-17-2005, 08:34 PM
#1
Opinions need on Midbass...
This is my 1st thread n a while, haven't been spending as much time on the .org I as used to. I really need some help deciding on some midbass setups to go along with my Image Dynamics CD1e V2 Full Body Horns. Here's what I have decided on so far...
Seas: L18RNX/P (7" $69.70 per)
CA18RNX (7" $58.65 per)
G18RNX/P (can't find price, but heard great things)
W18NX (7" $153.70 per)
Peerless: HDS 6.5" ($62.85 per)
Exclusive 7" ($69.45 per)
Morel: HU631 (6" $123.00 per)
MW164 (6" $91.00 per)
Vifa: PL18 (7" $65.15 per)
Dayton: RS180S (7" $32.70 per)
Any other of suggestions will b appreciated. I also haven't decided on an amp yet. The Horns have crossovers for mids also, but I may run everything active. The RMS on the horns is 75w RMS, but have read many reviews where they were only getting 30-50w RMS and performed very well. I know the mids will need more power than 30-50w RMS, so that's why I may go active.
Also...Has anyone ever installed horns under the dash n a 4th gen? I'm hoping I'm not getting n over my head installing these things
. Any pics of installed horns would b nice...
Thanks guys
Seas: L18RNX/P (7" $69.70 per)
CA18RNX (7" $58.65 per)
G18RNX/P (can't find price, but heard great things)
W18NX (7" $153.70 per)
Peerless: HDS 6.5" ($62.85 per)
Exclusive 7" ($69.45 per)
Morel: HU631 (6" $123.00 per)
MW164 (6" $91.00 per)
Vifa: PL18 (7" $65.15 per)
Dayton: RS180S (7" $32.70 per)
Any other of suggestions will b appreciated. I also haven't decided on an amp yet. The Horns have crossovers for mids also, but I may run everything active. The RMS on the horns is 75w RMS, but have read many reviews where they were only getting 30-50w RMS and performed very well. I know the mids will need more power than 30-50w RMS, so that's why I may go active.
Also...Has anyone ever installed horns under the dash n a 4th gen? I'm hoping I'm not getting n over my head installing these things
. Any pics of installed horns would b nice...Thanks guys
11-17-2005, 10:11 PM
#3
I PMed Don tonite, hoping he can maybe point me n the right direction (or at least narrow down my choices). I'm hoping to b getting the horns nxt week sometime (as long as no one buys them b4 8am), and HOPE i can make a clean enough install to be happy with.
11-17-2005, 10:52 PM
#5
Yea I've been planning a front-stage upgrade for months now. The only thing about taking so much time is that ur list of options starts getting longer and longer. Its a good thing we have an expert like Don to help us out 
.
.
11-17-2005, 11:08 PM
#6
I'd go with at least a 7" (preferably 8"). Vifa, Morel, focal, dynaudio, adire has some home audio 8's that look REALLY nice (but they're 8 ohm). For the price and output I'd go with the vifa 8".
11-17-2005, 11:16 PM
#7
I tend to get a bit irritable
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Originally Posted by '96MaxGLE
Yea I've been planning a front-stage upgrade for months now. The only thing about taking so much time is that ur list of options starts getting longer and longer. Its a good thing we have an expert like Don to help us out .
.I was looking over the PM and comparing prices to what you have listed. With Madisound dealer status theyre not that much less cost wise for me to get em. Although I didnt look up every single one.
Personally I REALLY like the Dyn MW170. I also second the choice for an 8", theyll easily fit in those doors. Otherwise I would probably favor the Morels a bit.
Thanks for the compliment, but Im hardly an expert.
11-17-2005, 11:20 PM
#8
Here are a couple more options:
CDT: HD-6's ($199.00 pair)
Dynaudio: MW170 8"...why not run 8"s and horns...
RE: XXX (I have heard that these don't perform as well as the Seas or CDT's)
Also for you soundstage experts...Would I get better midbass response from a correctly prepared door (factory location), or n the kickpanels? I have a friend that does lots of fiberglassing, and it wouldn't b to expensive to get them made.
CDT: HD-6's ($199.00 pair)
Dynaudio: MW170 8"...why not run 8"s and horns...
RE: XXX (I have heard that these don't perform as well as the Seas or CDT's)
Also for you soundstage experts...Would I get better midbass response from a correctly prepared door (factory location), or n the kickpanels? I have a friend that does lots of fiberglassing, and it wouldn't b to expensive to get them made.
11-17-2005, 11:32 PM
#9
I tend to get a bit irritable
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Originally Posted by '96MaxGLE
Here are a couple more options:
CDT: HD-6's ($199.00 pair)
Dynaudio: MW170 8"...why not run 8"s and horns...
RE: XXX (I have heard that these don't perform as well as the Seas or CDT's)
Also for you soundstage experts...Would I get better midbass response from a correctly prepared door (factory location), or n the kickpanels? I have a friend that does lots of fiberglassing, and it wouldn't b to expensive to get them made.
CDT: HD-6's ($199.00 pair)
Dynaudio: MW170 8"...why not run 8"s and horns...
RE: XXX (I have heard that these don't perform as well as the Seas or CDT's)
Also for you soundstage experts...Would I get better midbass response from a correctly prepared door (factory location), or n the kickpanels? I have a friend that does lots of fiberglassing, and it wouldn't b to expensive to get them made.
Ive seen Alot of people dumping the XXXs in favor of other dirvers on CAF,ECA,etc
The DYNs are Very yummy.
Ive had alot of great results from the factory locations. Very few times did I need to do kicks.
11-17-2005, 11:32 PM
#10
Damn Don...I just added the Dynaudio's to my list! What kinda price can get on the MW170's? I'm thinking the 8's would probably give me the most appealing midbass response for my taste. I read that the RMS on these is 150w. My JL 450/4 would be perfect for now (150x2 & 75x2) for now, and just wait until later to go active.
11-17-2005, 11:55 PM
#11
I tend to get a bit irritable
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Originally Posted by '96MaxGLE
Damn Don...I just added the Dynaudio's to my list! What kinda price can get on the MW170's? I'm thinking the 8's would probably give me the most appealing midbass response for my taste. I read that the RMS on these is 150w. My JL 450/4 would be perfect for now (150x2 & 75x2) for now, and just wait until later to go active.
I posted that befor you even added it to your list. Ill check the price sometime in the morn, but ....they are not cheap.
Im running a 2500XXK to mine. They will take Gobs of power and then politely ask for more.
11-18-2005, 02:55 AM
#12
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Hey there:
Can't believe I didn't spot this thread earlier. I'm a big Image Dynamics and ESPECIALLY Image Dynamics horns fan.....
First off, the horns will work fine under the dash. As far back and as far wide and parallel to the ground. Make an underdash panel (cardboard wrapped with carpet) and connect the top of the horns to the bottom of the dash so there's no cavity or crevaces between the horns and the under dash. I haven't put horns in a Max yet, but I've run horns in other cars and am going to be putting a pair of CD2pro Neo's down there shortly. I've poked around down there and don't see much of a problem. Danny/Slammed had horns in his 4th gen max, and they sounded decent even though they weren't mounted how I would have mounted them, at least when I heard/saw them. I'm honestly not the hugest fan of the CD1e's, but they are a good "introduction" to horns, will get you the staging of horns, and will likely wet your appetitie enought to make you go crazy and step up to the CD1's (great horns!!!) or CD2's (or maybe some comprable USD's, Illusions), though then you then MUST go active.
So your using the CD1e's with the supplied passive crossover? We're getting slightly outside of my experience now, but I think (and am pretty sure that) if you're using that crossover, the impedence of the speaker your using is very important, as that set is designed to match with the CX 62 or CX64 (I'm Image Dyn. biased as you can tell, but these are not my personal mids of choice), so very likely, if you are sticking passive, your options MAY be limited to 4 ohm drivers, taking away many of those nice 8 ohm options you've listed. Also, if you're trying to have conventional speakers match up with horns (soooooo efficient) you're gonna want to get as much power as possible to the mids (one reason to consider avoiding 8 ohm conventional drivers). Yeah, more cone area like 8's helps too. I ran a two way CD1pro's and Morel WR8's in kicks in my old Tercel and they did well together, though even in that application, the morels could have used more than the 175 x 2 that I was giving it. The Dynaudio and Morel drivers have been being matched with horns for years, and many horn gurus say that they are a good tonal match for horns, and again as Don said, they will take a lot of power, which will help if you're going to try to match with horns. 99 db efficiency is nothing to f*ck with
If you have the option , I would DEFINATELY go active, though if you're going active, why not step up to the CD1Pro's. (They are MUUUUUCH better horns and are on sale at sounddomain now). If you go active with horns, you have all the midrange options open to you and can surely supply the mids with the power they need if you have a strong enough amp for them. Anyone who has told you they've actually FED 30 watts to horns is delusional or deaf, cause if you really gave horns 30 watts, you could not get in or prolly near that car without some hearing protection. They are THAT efficient. Not plugging for a sale here, more giving an example...I have a 30 x 2 at 4 ohms amp (old school rodek) that would be more than enough for horns. You'd never need to feed them close to the 15 watts at 8 ohms that it's rated at. Again, they're THAT efficient.
Now whether you want to do kicks or not for the midbass really depends on how **** you are about staging, depth and stuff like that. Properly prepared doors and properly done kicks should yeild the same tonal response, the difference would be in imaging/stage/depth. Kicks would give you a much better shot of achieving good imaging from both passenger and drivers seats, if thats important to you. If you're gonna try to put the mids in kicks (as I am) a lil metal cutting can yeild a lot of room back there, and it's easy to vent, so running drivers IB in the kicks aint hard in a max. By the way, don't worry about the aiming of the mids in this application, just mount em flat, aiming directly accross the vehicle towards the back of the center console. (Let others say what they will or trust me on that one) I'll be putting oversized, prosound oriented (to match efficiency) 6" midranges in my kicks to go with my horns and 8's in the doors. As Don said, 8's, even huge ones, fit in the doors of a max easily.
Here's a thread where a few people posted pics of their horn installs.
http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showt...6&pagenumber=1
That should help.
Not trying to plug my personal biased opinion of car audio companies, as this seems to be an Arc/Diamond/Dynaudio/Eclipse/what Don carries forum (and yes he carries some GREAT stuff!), but one more thing that can be the best help of all when using Image Dynamics horns....if at any time you have a question about mounting, matching mids to, or tuning them, call Image Dynamics, ask for Matt B. let em know you're installing ID horns, and he'll answer any and all questions to help you. This guy is THE MAN as far as horns and car audio in general goes, and when I hadda call him he talked my ear off with suggestions, pointers, jokes, whatever. If Matt's not there, they'll hand the phone to Eric, then you're talking to the owner of the company.
Hope this helps...GOOD LUCK!
Oh, and wanna see a killer horn install find the thread I posted here a lil back of the Non Maxima but sick install. Thats a buddy of mine who just won IASCA world finals running ID horns in his BEEMER. This car looks and most importantly SOUNDS INCREDIBLE.
Can't believe I didn't spot this thread earlier. I'm a big Image Dynamics and ESPECIALLY Image Dynamics horns fan.....
First off, the horns will work fine under the dash. As far back and as far wide and parallel to the ground. Make an underdash panel (cardboard wrapped with carpet) and connect the top of the horns to the bottom of the dash so there's no cavity or crevaces between the horns and the under dash. I haven't put horns in a Max yet, but I've run horns in other cars and am going to be putting a pair of CD2pro Neo's down there shortly. I've poked around down there and don't see much of a problem. Danny/Slammed had horns in his 4th gen max, and they sounded decent even though they weren't mounted how I would have mounted them, at least when I heard/saw them. I'm honestly not the hugest fan of the CD1e's, but they are a good "introduction" to horns, will get you the staging of horns, and will likely wet your appetitie enought to make you go crazy and step up to the CD1's (great horns!!!) or CD2's (or maybe some comprable USD's, Illusions), though then you then MUST go active.
So your using the CD1e's with the supplied passive crossover? We're getting slightly outside of my experience now, but I think (and am pretty sure that) if you're using that crossover, the impedence of the speaker your using is very important, as that set is designed to match with the CX 62 or CX64 (I'm Image Dyn. biased as you can tell, but these are not my personal mids of choice), so very likely, if you are sticking passive, your options MAY be limited to 4 ohm drivers, taking away many of those nice 8 ohm options you've listed. Also, if you're trying to have conventional speakers match up with horns (soooooo efficient) you're gonna want to get as much power as possible to the mids (one reason to consider avoiding 8 ohm conventional drivers). Yeah, more cone area like 8's helps too. I ran a two way CD1pro's and Morel WR8's in kicks in my old Tercel and they did well together, though even in that application, the morels could have used more than the 175 x 2 that I was giving it. The Dynaudio and Morel drivers have been being matched with horns for years, and many horn gurus say that they are a good tonal match for horns, and again as Don said, they will take a lot of power, which will help if you're going to try to match with horns. 99 db efficiency is nothing to f*ck with
If you have the option , I would DEFINATELY go active, though if you're going active, why not step up to the CD1Pro's. (They are MUUUUUCH better horns and are on sale at sounddomain now). If you go active with horns, you have all the midrange options open to you and can surely supply the mids with the power they need if you have a strong enough amp for them. Anyone who has told you they've actually FED 30 watts to horns is delusional or deaf, cause if you really gave horns 30 watts, you could not get in or prolly near that car without some hearing protection. They are THAT efficient. Not plugging for a sale here, more giving an example...I have a 30 x 2 at 4 ohms amp (old school rodek) that would be more than enough for horns. You'd never need to feed them close to the 15 watts at 8 ohms that it's rated at. Again, they're THAT efficient.
Now whether you want to do kicks or not for the midbass really depends on how **** you are about staging, depth and stuff like that. Properly prepared doors and properly done kicks should yeild the same tonal response, the difference would be in imaging/stage/depth. Kicks would give you a much better shot of achieving good imaging from both passenger and drivers seats, if thats important to you. If you're gonna try to put the mids in kicks (as I am) a lil metal cutting can yeild a lot of room back there, and it's easy to vent, so running drivers IB in the kicks aint hard in a max. By the way, don't worry about the aiming of the mids in this application, just mount em flat, aiming directly accross the vehicle towards the back of the center console. (Let others say what they will or trust me on that one) I'll be putting oversized, prosound oriented (to match efficiency) 6" midranges in my kicks to go with my horns and 8's in the doors. As Don said, 8's, even huge ones, fit in the doors of a max easily.
Here's a thread where a few people posted pics of their horn installs.
http://forum.elitecaraudio.com/showt...6&pagenumber=1
That should help.
Not trying to plug my personal biased opinion of car audio companies, as this seems to be an Arc/Diamond/Dynaudio/Eclipse/what Don carries forum (and yes he carries some GREAT stuff!), but one more thing that can be the best help of all when using Image Dynamics horns....if at any time you have a question about mounting, matching mids to, or tuning them, call Image Dynamics, ask for Matt B. let em know you're installing ID horns, and he'll answer any and all questions to help you. This guy is THE MAN as far as horns and car audio in general goes, and when I hadda call him he talked my ear off with suggestions, pointers, jokes, whatever. If Matt's not there, they'll hand the phone to Eric, then you're talking to the owner of the company.
Hope this helps...GOOD LUCK!
Oh, and wanna see a killer horn install
find the thread I posted here a lil back of the Non Maxima but sick install. Thats a buddy of mine who just won IASCA world finals running ID horns in his BEEMER. This car looks and most importantly SOUNDS INCREDIBLE.
11-18-2005, 03:04 AM
#13
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One more thing...Do you alredy have the CD1E horn bodies? Are they the mini's? If so, and if you wanna use those horn bodies (they are excelleing bodies...I'm going to be running the CD2 neo's with the CD1e bodies) but with better drivers (than the cd1e's) on the cheap, shoot me a PM and I may be able to recommed a cost effective way to upgrade. YOu would need to go active though.
YOu would need to go active though.
11-18-2005, 03:18 AM
#14
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Oh and the Seas W18's are NOT a good match for horns. Totally opposite sound, though beautiful nonetheless. The other G 18RNX's can be bought from www.diymobileaudio.com. Again 8 ohms though
11-18-2005, 08:36 PM
#16
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The CD1e's came with the 4 ohm IDQ midbass, so in order to use the passive you'll need a 4 ohm driver. Since you don't have the amp yet, I highly suggest going active. You can find a use coustic xm3 or audiocontrol xover cheap on ebay. Then get a 4 channel amp, or a small 2 channel for the horns and a larger 2 channel for the mids. The 2 amp setup is preferable because it'll make it easier to level match the horns with mids, not to mention the horns need very little power compared to the mids.
11-19-2005, 02:56 AM
#17
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Yeah (it came with the IDQ midbass till they discontinued it and put it with the cx 62 or 64) Those are some decent processing options. I'd also recommend considering one of the Eclipse head units. You get a good crossover with some EQing where it counts most. Most horns will need to be cut in the 2- 4 k range a lil and maybe bbosted a tad 16k to 20k, but I haven't really played/tuned the CD1E's. But yeah, active is very preferable....
11-21-2005, 02:22 PM
#18
Thanks for all the response on this guys...my horns should b here n a couple of days . I still have a little time b4 they will be installed, i have to do a lot of research b4 i decide what mids I'm gonna run. I've already done everything to get my doors ready for mids. I'll probably sell my JL 450/4 that currently run my mid/high setup. I've got an oldschool RF Power 800aII, that does 200x2 @ 4ohms, to power my mids. I'll be sure to get pics as I recieve everything.
. I still have a little time b4 they will be installed, i have to do a lot of research b4 i decide what mids I'm gonna run. I've already done everything to get my doors ready for mids. I'll probably sell my JL 450/4 that currently run my mid/high setup. I've got an oldschool RF Power 800aII, that does 200x2 @ 4ohms, to power my mids. I'll be sure to get pics as I recieve everything.
11-21-2005, 02:34 PM
#19
Would running 2 8ohm midbass per side b overkill? I could run a pair @ 4ohm, allowing me to have more midbass options. I have a friend who can fiberglass me door pods or kicks...I wanna make sure everything is done like I want it this time.
11-21-2005, 04:46 PM
#21
Good I was hoping that.... . I can't wait to get this project researched and finished. I have way more midbass options now that I can run 2 8ohm drivers per door wired parallel. Would I get better staging running one n the kick and one n the door, or both n the door? I'm sure a EQ would be a good idea 2...any opinions on the PPI EQ 31?
. I can't wait to get this project researched and finished. I have way more midbass options now that I can run 2 8ohm drivers per door wired parallel. Would I get better staging running one n the kick and one n the door, or both n the door? I'm sure a EQ would be a good idea 2...any opinions on the PPI EQ 31?
11-21-2005, 04:59 PM
#23
Oh trust me its gonna b a while on the pics 
. This is a work n progress right now, and probably will b for a couple of months. The horns are the only thing that has been purchased. Dual 8's n door pods would b f***'n awesome .
. This is a work n progress right now, and probably will b for a couple of months. The horns are the only thing that has been purchased. Dual 8's n door pods would b f***'n awesome .
11-21-2005, 08:37 PM
#26
So I'm starting to look for a amp around 25-30x2w RMS for the horns, and maybe running a PPI EQ 31 (if u can switch b/t L & R channels). I've read that these horns only need a 15 band EQ to b tuned properly, since they're not the high-end ID horns (eventhough the EQ 31 is 30 band I believe). Would 175w - 200w per door be to much midbass? I'm thinking that power range would b perfect since the horns r supposed to b VERY efficent.
11-21-2005, 08:45 PM
#27
I tend to get a bit irritable
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Originally Posted by '96MaxGLE
So I'm starting to look for a amp around 25-30x2w RMS for the horns, and maybe running a PPI EQ 31 (if u can switch b/t L & R channels). I've read that these horns only need a 15 band EQ to b tuned properly, since they're not the high-end ID horns (eventhough the EQ 31 is 30 band I believe). Would 175w - 200w per door be to much midbass? I'm thinking that power range would b perfect since the horns r supposed to b VERY efficent.
I think an Audio Control EQX may work also.
OK shameless plug because I have one collecting dust.
11-21-2005, 09:28 PM
#29
I tend to get a bit irritable
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http://mobileaudiocontrol.com/produc...48&l1=5248&l2=
I would have to dig it out for an actual pic of mine. Eh bout $100?
I would have to dig it out for an actual pic of mine. Eh bout $100?
11-21-2005, 10:01 PM
#30
Sounds like a pretty good deal. Try and get me some pics when u get a chance. I'll be able to EQ the left & right horns w/ this unit, correct? It may b nxt week or so b4 I'm able to get it. Is that price w/ shipping?
11-21-2005, 10:31 PM
#33
Link to the specs on the PG EQ215ix...
While u guys r waiting for some pics of the horns...I figured I would give u all something to drool over
As u can see I can't finish a project b4 starting another...
BTW...it's a SNAILSHELL
While u guys r waiting for some pics of the horns...I figured I would give u all something to drool over
As u can see I can't finish a project b4 starting another...
BTW...it's a SNAILSHELL
11-22-2005, 07:39 PM
#37
yea the trunk is gonna b dampened soon, the lid and the trunk skin has already been done. I guess I really don't have anymore questions at the moment, further along when i narrow my choices down and actually start installing things I'm sure I'll b needing you guys again.
11-24-2005, 07:52 PM
#38
I have to move my passenger horn though....
I have the Seas CA18RNX mids....they are great speakers. But I think I need toupgrade due to the fact that my horns are not playing to their full potential.
Both the horns and the mids are getting about 40 wrms each....the gains on the horns are almost all the way down