Opinions need on Midbass...
11-25-2005, 07:46 AM
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,771
Hey 96Max,
It just so happens I have some MW170s crammed into my front doors. I have the whole Dynaudio 360 system, along with 3-inch midranges and tweeters which are mounted in Q-Logic kick panels. Everything is run actively.
I don't "think" you'll need two 8-inch midbasses in the doors if you do this right. I'm not saying you won't be happy with the results from two, but one per door should sound really frickin' good. You also wouldn't be disappointed if you correctly put them in some custom-made kick panels, but as you know you'll be looking at a ton of work. If you properly deaden your doors and do a good mounting job with the driver, I'm quite sure you'd be happy with a single 8-incher (whatever brand you choose) in each door...ESPECIALLY if you run the whole thing actively, and even more so if you can control every aspect right from your head unit. In my opinion, the end results to having total control of each speaker's parameters right from the driver's seat is like switching from cassettes to CDs. Of course, it takes a while to learn how to tweak everything - and it can be quite frustrating - but it's worth it. -Tony
It just so happens I have some MW170s crammed into my front doors. I have the whole Dynaudio 360 system, along with 3-inch midranges and tweeters which are mounted in Q-Logic kick panels. Everything is run actively.
I don't "think" you'll need two 8-inch midbasses in the doors if you do this right. I'm not saying you won't be happy with the results from two, but one per door should sound really frickin' good. You also wouldn't be disappointed if you correctly put them in some custom-made kick panels, but as you know you'll be looking at a ton of work. If you properly deaden your doors and do a good mounting job with the driver, I'm quite sure you'd be happy with a single 8-incher (whatever brand you choose) in each door...ESPECIALLY if you run the whole thing actively, and even more so if you can control every aspect right from your head unit. In my opinion, the end results to having total control of each speaker's parameters right from the driver's seat is like switching from cassettes to CDs. Of course, it takes a while to learn how to tweak everything - and it can be quite frustrating - but it's worth it. -Tony
11-26-2005, 07:49 AM
#43
Two things to consider with using a single 8", nevermind TWO of them..
* beaming
* dragging of imaging down due to added door resonance
It literally took a couple of months for a single 8" mid to destroy what i thought was a decent job deadning the door panels. I have to go back in there and work on it some more.
* beaming
* dragging of imaging down due to added door resonance
It literally took a couple of months for a single 8" mid to destroy what i thought was a decent job deadning the door panels. I have to go back in there and work on it some more.
11-26-2005, 06:12 PM
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,771
Originally Posted by MannyNJ2k2max
Two things to consider with using a single 8", nevermind TWO of them..
* beaming
* dragging of imaging down due to added door resonance
It literally took a couple of months for a single 8" mid to destroy what i thought was a decent job deadning the door panels. I have to go back in there and work on it some more.
* beaming
* dragging of imaging down due to added door resonance
It literally took a couple of months for a single 8" mid to destroy what i thought was a decent job deadning the door panels. I have to go back in there and work on it some more.
And I'm not sure what you mean by added door resonance, much less how it might affect imaging?
Tony
11-26-2005, 11:38 PM
#47
Did u guys use 1/4" plexi to cover any of the open areas of the door b4 u deadened?
I need some suggestions on an amp for the horns. Looking for something that's about 25-35w x 2 RMS. I guess I can just get a 50x2, and leave my gains turned down?
Also...Being as picky as I am, I want my horn and midbass amp 2 b the same brand. I would also like to b able to hide both of these. Maybe the horn amp under the console (not sure where), and the midbass amp under the passenger seat.
I need some suggestions on an amp for the horns. Looking for something that's about 25-35w x 2 RMS. I guess I can just get a 50x2, and leave my gains turned down?
Also...Being as picky as I am, I want my horn and midbass amp 2 b the same brand. I would also like to b able to hide both of these. Maybe the horn amp under the console (not sure where), and the midbass amp under the passenger seat.
11-27-2005, 12:30 AM
#48
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Posts: 1,100
Yeah I actually did use plexi when sealing the door. Maybe you've seen it before and thats why you asked? It was done towards the end of door treatment.....This was done a while ago...long before I had the 8" monsters in there....
Suggestions for amps? Theres' so many, you know. Yes you can use a higher power amp and just attenuate with the gains or possibly with your processing. I like keeping it one brand also...
Genesis makes nice amps with small footprints (better chance of squeezing under seats). I think it's their "second line from the top" that struck me as especially small for what they did. Don would know more. Arc certainly makes a 50 x 2 along with pleny of higher power models. Old Crossfire CFA's were well built, can be had cheap used. They made a 30 or 35 x 2 as well as models that did 100 and 150 x 2. Zapco made plenty of 50 x 2 amps and of course makes biggies too....I'm just blurting some out now. There's plenty of options as far as amps go....
Suggestions for amps? Theres' so many, you know. Yes you can use a higher power amp and just attenuate with the gains or possibly with your processing. I like keeping it one brand also...
Genesis makes nice amps with small footprints (better chance of squeezing under seats). I think it's their "second line from the top" that struck me as especially small for what they did. Don would know more. Arc certainly makes a 50 x 2 along with pleny of higher power models. Old Crossfire CFA's were well built, can be had cheap used. They made a 30 or 35 x 2 as well as models that did 100 and 150 x 2. Zapco made plenty of 50 x 2 amps and of course makes biggies too....I'm just blurting some out now. There's plenty of options as far as amps go....
11-27-2005, 09:57 AM
#49
Originally Posted by Tony Fernandes
I've never heard of beaming being much of a problem in car audio. I could be mistaken, though.
Its not hard to see how an 8" with some good power behind it wont beam in the vital midrange...remember this thread is about mating 8's with HORNS in a 2 way setup. I experienced it myself running 2way with the 8's and playing them that high, thats why I'm doing 3way now. Beaming is not so much what you hear from the listening position, but rather what you dont get to hear due to its effect on the off axis response of the driver and its overall dispersion- affecting mainly the critical midrange which is most responsible for imaging.
Originally Posted by Tony Fernandes
And I'm not sure what you mean by added door resonance, much less how it might affect imaging?
Tony
Tony
It may not be something you can detect, but it doesnt mean its not coloring the response. Sound gets trapped behind the door panel, both from front and behind the driver and it finds its way out into the car.
Perhaps because your drivers are an 1" less in diameter than mine, its possible its not as bad in your car, but the driver literally is larger than the speaker grill area on the door panel despite all the extra holes i drilled into them.
So yes, when you have a driver that plays into critical midrange and many factors color it, it does affect imaging.
11-28-2005, 10:16 PM
#50
What do you guys think about 8" Adire Kodas or IDQ 8's? I've never heard either of these, but i have heard some ID mids. I found a used set of Kodas, and I would like to know where to find some IDQs.
11-28-2005, 10:25 PM
#51
Would this b enough to EQ my frontstage?
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-WY2MTrD...4&i=113KGC9044
I have a Kenwood ddx-7015, and if this would handle the tuning for my horns and possibly midbass, i think this would look really good where the little drawer is n my 4th gen dash. Only thing is that its 4v preouts, but so does my HU.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-WY2MTrD...4&i=113KGC9044
I have a Kenwood ddx-7015, and if this would handle the tuning for my horns and possibly midbass, i think this would look really good where the little drawer is n my 4th gen dash. Only thing is that its 4v preouts, but so does my HU.
11-29-2005, 12:12 AM
#52
Originally Posted by MannyNJ2k2max
Every speaker has a beaming zone, whether its a problem or not depends on whether you can filter it out, as well as the driver used for the job, and the car itself. Because an 8" may have a freq response of up to 2-3k doesnt mean in the car it will not beam @ 700-800hz.
Its not hard to see how an 8" with some good power behind it wont beam in the vital midrange...remember this thread is about mating 8's with HORNS in a 2 way setup. I experienced it myself running 2way with the 8's and playing them that high, thats why I'm doing 3way now. Beaming is not so much what you hear from the listening position, but rather what you dont get to hear due to its effect on the off axis response of the driver and its overall dispersion- affecting mainly the critical midrange which is most responsible for imaging.
Have you felt your door panels? do they not vibrate with music? AndI'm not talking about audible buzzing or flapping...
It may not be something you can detect, but it doesnt mean its not coloring the response. Sound gets trapped behind the door panel, both from front and behind the driver and it finds its way out into the car.
Perhaps because your drivers are an 1" less in diameter than mine, its possible its not as bad in your car, but the driver literally is larger than the speaker grill area on the door panel despite all the extra holes i drilled into them.
So yes, when you have a driver that plays into critical midrange and many factors color it, it does affect imaging.
Its not hard to see how an 8" with some good power behind it wont beam in the vital midrange...remember this thread is about mating 8's with HORNS in a 2 way setup. I experienced it myself running 2way with the 8's and playing them that high, thats why I'm doing 3way now. Beaming is not so much what you hear from the listening position, but rather what you dont get to hear due to its effect on the off axis response of the driver and its overall dispersion- affecting mainly the critical midrange which is most responsible for imaging.
Have you felt your door panels? do they not vibrate with music? AndI'm not talking about audible buzzing or flapping...
It may not be something you can detect, but it doesnt mean its not coloring the response. Sound gets trapped behind the door panel, both from front and behind the driver and it finds its way out into the car.
Perhaps because your drivers are an 1" less in diameter than mine, its possible its not as bad in your car, but the driver literally is larger than the speaker grill area on the door panel despite all the extra holes i drilled into them.
So yes, when you have a driver that plays into critical midrange and many factors color it, it does affect imaging.
I've been dealing with similar problems in the past and that's why I'm doing a 3-way set-up as well.
11-29-2005, 02:23 PM
#53
HORNS ARRIVED TODAY!!! Pics will b up later tonite guys, I'll post them ASAP. They r gonna have to be trimmed down, but I have 6 1/2" on the inner side to work with. I'm so ready to decide on and order everything else.
12-06-2005, 03:31 PM
#54
Has anyone heard these ED drivers used for midbass? It says they can b used, but I haven't really heard anything about them. Nice looking drivers though, and a very good deal...let me know what u guys think.
Here's the link...
http://edesignaudio.com/product.php?...pid=32&cur=USD
Here's the link...
http://edesignaudio.com/product.php?...pid=32&cur=USD
12-07-2005, 02:08 AM
#55
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,100
Sorry no experience with those drivers. Try searching on Elite...
Congrats on getting the horns. My horn bodies are in a shop 50 miles away waiting for me and I should be getting the Neo motors in a week or so. Hoping to get mine in over my xmas break in a few weeks. Dont' know if you're putting yours in before of after that...but PM me if you have ?'s about getting em in there...
I'm pumped about having horns back in my ride too
Congrats on getting the horns. My horn bodies are in a shop 50 miles away waiting for me and I should be getting the Neo motors in a week or so. Hoping to get mine in over my xmas break in a few weeks. Dont' know if you're putting yours in before of after that...but PM me if you have ?'s about getting em in there...
I'm pumped about having horns back in my ride too
12-09-2005, 11:59 AM
#56
215IX IS HOT ... I had one a long time ago and it treated me very well. Audio Control stuff has never treated me very well, it seems to be very delicate. PG usually also has infinitely variable xover points unlike Audio Control - they make you buy or build a new xover module to change it.
12-12-2005, 10:19 PM
#57
Well talked to a tech guy at Image Dynaimcs today, and he gave me some recommendations on some specs to look for when choosing a midbass driver. Of course he told me that the IDQ 8 would b perfect for these, but unfortunatly I can't find them anywhere.
Here r the specs he told me to look for:
Q: .3 - .5 (the lower n the range the better)
FS: mid 30 - 60
efficency: 88db (4ohm), 90 - 92 (8ohm)
He also told me to look for a paper or poly cone. So I'm still looking, a lot of these 8ohm drivers that I have looked at have an efficency of 86-89db. So with a low efficency and a low RMS, I'm probably gonna have to look for other options.
I have found these Peerless PPB 830868 8"...they're on Madisound, but currently not availible. They also have a higher RMS than most of the 8ohm drivers I have looked at (120w). Also I looked at the Seas P21RF/P (H511). So let me know what you think about these guys...
Here r the specs he told me to look for:
Q: .3 - .5 (the lower n the range the better)
FS: mid 30 - 60
efficency: 88db (4ohm), 90 - 92 (8ohm)
He also told me to look for a paper or poly cone. So I'm still looking, a lot of these 8ohm drivers that I have looked at have an efficency of 86-89db. So with a low efficency and a low RMS, I'm probably gonna have to look for other options.
I have found these Peerless PPB 830868 8"...they're on Madisound, but currently not availible. They also have a higher RMS than most of the 8ohm drivers I have looked at (120w). Also I looked at the Seas P21RF/P (H511). So let me know what you think about these guys...
12-12-2005, 11:45 PM
#59
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http://www.madisound.com/pdf/peerless/850490.pdf
Here's what I run. You'll see it fits the bill in terms of q and efficiency. Madisound has them now...
Here's what I run. You'll see it fits the bill in terms of q and efficiency. Madisound has them now...
12-13-2005, 02:25 AM
#62
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Yeah I'll be calling as my winter break gets nearer. Very excited about the opportunity of working with you and getting my stuff done and done right.......but I MUST give you fair compensation for your time/expertise.
12-13-2005, 05:41 AM
#63
Originally Posted by '96MaxGLE
Link to the specs on the PG EQ215ix...
While u guys r waiting for some pics of the horns...I figured I would give u all something to drool over
As u can see I can't finish a project b4 starting another...
BTW...it's a SNAILSHELL
While u guys r waiting for some pics of the horns...I figured I would give u all something to drool over
As u can see I can't finish a project b4 starting another...
BTW...it's a SNAILSHELL
12-13-2005, 02:09 PM
#64
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,100
Originally Posted by '96MaxGLE
Well talked to a tech guy at Image Dynaimcs today, and he gave me some recommendations on some specs to look for when choosing a midbass driver. Of course he told me that the IDQ 8 would b perfect for these, but unfortunatly I can't find them anywhere.
...
...
schhhhhhhhhh God I'd kill to get to go to CES!!! And MAYBE back by popular demand, even the re-release of the one and only IDW's
Looks like there may be some fiberglass and 15's coming from my rear deck soon
12-13-2005, 02:20 PM
#65
I think the dimensions on the snailshell for the 12" XXX is 33w x 13.5h x 18d. It wouldn't hurt for me to double baffle the front to give the vent pole a little more clearance.
Steve...Yea I've heard that the IDQ 8's r supposed to be re-released since there is so much demand for them right now. I'm defintaly gonna take my time deciding on my midbass drivers, may even experiment with a couple b4 everything is finished. Ology is supposed to be releasing a XBL2 midbass driver made by Adire, and they're supposed to b dual 4ohm. They should b out n a month or so, but not sure on the price of them. Only bad thing is they're only gonna b 6.5" right now
Steve...Yea I've heard that the IDQ 8's r supposed to be re-released since there is so much demand for them right now. I'm defintaly gonna take my time deciding on my midbass drivers, may even experiment with a couple b4 everything is finished. Ology is supposed to be releasing a XBL2 midbass driver made by Adire, and they're supposed to b dual 4ohm. They should b out n a month or so, but not sure on the price of them. Only bad thing is they're only gonna b 6.5" right now
12-13-2005, 02:27 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by '96MaxGLE
I think the dimensions on the snailshell for the 12" XXX is 33w x 13.5h x 18d. It wouldn't hurt for me to double baffle the front to give the vent pole a little more clearance.
Steve...Yea I've heard that the IDQ 8's r supposed to be re-released since there is so much demand for them right now. I'm defintaly gonna take my time deciding on my midbass drivers, may even experiment with a couple b4 everything is finished. Ology is supposed to be releasing a XBL2 midbass driver made by Adire, and they're supposed to b dual 4ohm. They should b out n a month or so, but not sure on the price of them. Only bad thing is they're only gonna b 6.5" right now
Steve...Yea I've heard that the IDQ 8's r supposed to be re-released since there is so much demand for them right now. I'm defintaly gonna take my time deciding on my midbass drivers, may even experiment with a couple b4 everything is finished. Ology is supposed to be releasing a XBL2 midbass driver made by Adire, and they're supposed to b dual 4ohm. They should b out n a month or so, but not sure on the price of them. Only bad thing is they're only gonna b 6.5" right now
I wanna know if they'll be the old IDQ8's or if they'll be inverted magnet ones like Mic Wallace had (sometimes they test or debut drivers through their competitors)...and wanna make sure they will be avaliable in dvc 4 again
I'm pumped that they're coming back.....Had some IDQ 8 svc 4's back in the day that I never got to put in and sold em, been regretting it ever since...
And the IDW's...boing
cant' wait! bout time ID puts the best sets of speakers they've ever made back on the market (minus horns which also qualify IMO) Question is...to go with the IDW 15's or try to go big pimpin with the 18's 
12-13-2005, 02:32 PM
#68
I'm don't exactly remeber his name, but he was one of the horn experts for ID. He told me to give him a call b4 I purchase anything, and he'd b more than glad to help me narrow down my options. Customer service with ID AWESOME!
12-13-2005, 02:45 PM
#71
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Originally Posted by '96MaxGLE
I'm don't exactly remeber his name, but he was one of the horn experts for ID. He told me to give him a call b4 I purchase anything, and he'd b more than glad to help me narrow down my options. Customer service with ID AWESOME!
The guy you talked to when you called ID? SWEET...gotta be Matt or Eric than...Prolly Matt.
Eric is Pres and Matt is Tech guy..when you call ID for advice, they send you to Matt and if he's not there to Eric. Everyone's figured out ID is my brand bias (though I respect other brands for sure and at least acknowledge I have a bias). The service is one big reason. It's a small companny. Their customer service IS the big dogs of the company. Their helpful over the phone, very present and helpful online, and have a competition team that is knowledgeable and helpful too....
When I talked to matt for horn advice, even though he was talking to me as a break from installing, he talked my ear off. Mention any car, and he knows whats under the dash...ANY CAR....
12-13-2005, 06:29 PM
#74
Originally Posted by '96MaxGLE
I think the dimensions on the snailshell for the 12" XXX is 33w x 13.5h x 18d. It wouldn't hurt for me to double baffle the front to give the vent pole a little more clearance. cool, thanks...a little deeper than what im willing to give
Steve...Yea I've heard that the IDQ 8's r supposed to be re-released since there is so much demand for them right now. I'm defintaly gonna take my time deciding on my midbass drivers, may even experiment with a couple b4 everything is finished. Ology is supposed to be releasing a XBL2 midbass driver made by Adire, and they're supposed to b dual 4ohm. They should b out n a month or so, but not sure on the price of them. Only bad thing is they're only gonna b 6.5" right now60bucks on the preorder (Well 62 ive been watching
Steve...Yea I've heard that the IDQ 8's r supposed to be re-released since there is so much demand for them right now. I'm defintaly gonna take my time deciding on my midbass drivers, may even experiment with a couple b4 everything is finished. Ology is supposed to be releasing a XBL2 midbass driver made by Adire, and they're supposed to b dual 4ohm. They should b out n a month or so, but not sure on the price of them. Only bad thing is they're only gonna b 6.5" right now
60bucks on the preorder (Well 62 ive been watching
but dont want to give more space... 
12-13-2005, 06:37 PM
#75
I tend to get a bit irritable
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Location: Central Jersey
Posts: 17,671
Originally Posted by '96MaxGLE
I think the dimensions on the snailshell for the 12" XXX is 33w x 13.5h x 18d. It wouldn't hurt for me to double baffle the front to give the vent pole a little more clearance.
Steve...Yea I've heard that the IDQ 8's r supposed to be re-released since there is so much demand for them right now. I'm defintaly gonna take my time deciding on my midbass drivers, may even experiment with a couple b4 everything is finished. Ology is supposed to be releasing a XBL2 midbass driver made by Adire, and they're supposed to b dual 4ohm. They should b out n a month or so, but not sure on the price of them. Only bad thing is they're only gonna b 6.5" right now
Steve...Yea I've heard that the IDQ 8's r supposed to be re-released since there is so much demand for them right now. I'm defintaly gonna take my time deciding on my midbass drivers, may even experiment with a couple b4 everything is finished. Ology is supposed to be releasing a XBL2 midbass driver made by Adire, and they're supposed to b dual 4ohm. They should b out n a month or so, but not sure on the price of them. Only bad thing is they're only gonna b 6.5" right now
Blah...Ology teh putz.
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