Dan and other fiberglassing experts - step in
08-20-2006, 09:22 PM
#2
Im no expert, but heres the Sticky at caraudio.com for Fiberglass How To Links
http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36873
http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36873
08-22-2006, 01:47 AM
#5
I found some really good information that I'll reference when the time comes:
http://www.ajquick.com/cars/tutorials/fiberglass.php
http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/...sp?FID=16&PN=1
http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=76328
http://empegbbs.com/ubbthreads/showf...?Number=281300
http://www.caraudiohelp.com/newslett...***_layers.htm
http://www.ajquick.com/cars/tutorials/fiberglass.php
http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/...sp?FID=16&PN=1
http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=76328
http://empegbbs.com/ubbthreads/showf...?Number=281300
http://www.caraudiohelp.com/newslett...***_layers.htm
08-22-2006, 03:14 AM
#6
Back from Hibernation
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,100
There's some good ones there.
What are you planning to make?
I recommend getting glass from http://www.shopmaninc.com/. Plan ahead and get what you need from here and get the right stuff for your specific job, and for cheaper....
What are you planning to make?
I recommend getting glass from http://www.shopmaninc.com/. Plan ahead and get what you need from here and get the right stuff for your specific job, and for cheaper....
08-22-2006, 03:40 AM
#9
Back from Hibernation
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,100
you could do the aluminium foil (tape it down various places) or if you do the way I'm describing below you can actually get away with no foil or tape at all for this job. When I helped Mic Wallace make his glass mold for his sub well amp rack, he did it this way (main difference between he spare tire well amp rack and enclosure is he didn't need to build structural integrity, and didn't have to glass to a baffle....... The mainthing that he did that would make this job a lot easier was........
Make a big square or circle ring out of MDF to sit on the floor of your trunk around the tire well. Make it clean and neat and this will help you with finishing later on. Then also make a wood circle (not hole in the middle, just a big circle) that will fit right at the bottom of your spare tire well (you may want to cut ou that 'nipple' that sticks up in the center to hold the ire, or if not, cur around it so that the wood can fit pretty much on the botom of the spare tire well.
Take fleece (from Jo ann fabrics...real cheap) and put the piece that goes on the botom of the spare tire well in it, drop it in the spare tire well, and screw down that wood in a place or two to hold it (remember, fleece is already underneath it) Now take your ring (that goes on the floor of the trunk) and screw that down to the car in a few places where you want it. Now stretch the fleece around that ring as tight as you possibly can and staple/brad nail it all around. As you staple it around, it may become apparent that there are parts stapeld that are worth taking off and stapling even tigher. Get it real tight and everything else will be buter.
Now you have fleece hugging the spare tire well enclosure pretty well. Glass it, let it cure, take it out. Now you want to build it up with knytex (please take this advice for a glass sub enclosure...get knytex ...it builds up SOOOO quick and easy it will save you a ton of time and money on resin and headaches over using mat, thin cloth, or unflexible roving.) 2-3 layers of knytex is all you'll ever need.It needs to build up to about 1/4 inch thick or so.
Then you can eiher position your sub baffle funky if you want it recesser or sticking out and use fleece to make the top part of the box mold, or simpler, if you wan a flat false floor with he sub just coming out of it, attach and seal it wih glass and screwes, and then do little finishing touches for cosmetics.
Make a big square or circle ring out of MDF to sit on the floor of your trunk around the tire well. Make it clean and neat and this will help you with finishing later on. Then also make a wood circle (not hole in the middle, just a big circle) that will fit right at the bottom of your spare tire well (you may want to cut ou that 'nipple' that sticks up in the center to hold the ire, or if not, cur around it so that the wood can fit pretty much on the botom of the spare tire well.
Take fleece (from Jo ann fabrics...real cheap) and put the piece that goes on the botom of the spare tire well in it, drop it in the spare tire well, and screw down that wood in a place or two to hold it (remember, fleece is already underneath it) Now take your ring (that goes on the floor of the trunk) and screw that down to the car in a few places where you want it. Now stretch the fleece around that ring as tight as you possibly can and staple/brad nail it all around. As you staple it around, it may become apparent that there are parts stapeld that are worth taking off and stapling even tigher. Get it real tight and everything else will be buter.
Now you have fleece hugging the spare tire well enclosure pretty well. Glass it, let it cure, take it out. Now you want to build it up with knytex (please take this advice for a glass sub enclosure...get knytex ...it builds up SOOOO quick and easy it will save you a ton of time and money on resin and headaches over using mat, thin cloth, or unflexible roving.) 2-3 layers of knytex is all you'll ever need.It needs to build up to about 1/4 inch thick or so.
Then you can eiher position your sub baffle funky if you want it recesser or sticking out and use fleece to make the top part of the box mold, or simpler, if you wan a flat false floor with he sub just coming out of it, attach and seal it wih glass and screwes, and then do little finishing touches for cosmetics.
08-22-2006, 04:19 AM
#10
Dan - I'm on the edge of my seat.
Steve - Great info. Thanks for taking the time to provide your explanation. Just read through your thread about your current project. Very nice work. I will definately use many of your tips when the time comes.
Steve - Great info. Thanks for taking the time to provide your explanation. Just read through your thread about your current project. Very nice work. I will definately use many of your tips when the time comes.
08-22-2006, 08:07 AM
#11
Tim,
Alright, here’s my take on the subject matter…
BILL OF MATERIALS
U.S. COMPOSITES
1 gallon 435 Standard Polyester Layup Resin
1 bottle MEKP
3 yards 2oz. Chopmat
HOME DEPOT
1 Roll 2” 3M Painters Tape
2 64oz. Paint-Mixing Buckets
8 Paint Mixing Sticks
8 Cheapo 2” Horsehair Disposable Brushes
1 Tube Liquid Nails
Latex Gloves
¾” MDF Board
Shears (not necessary, recommended)
STEP I – TAPE OVER
In order to cover the entire space of the spare wheel well, you will need to cover the entire interior of it. The first thing to do will be to tape the entire surface area of the spare well…this will mean that you tape the entire well AND and additional two inches around the opening of the well. For this I would recommend using 3M Painters Tape…I have found this tape FAR easier to use than the regular scotch tape as the heat from the resin curing tends to heat up the adhesive on the tape and make it a real PITA to peel off once everything is all said and done. I DON’T recommend using tin foil. You’ll find out why in a moment. You may want to consider cutting off the spare-wheel thread connector…this will give you additional volume…I don’t know what the depth of your subwoofer motor is, you’re going to want to make sure that the baffle of the sub sits around 1” above the floor level of the trunk with no clearance issues.
STEP II – LAYUP
The first step of glassing will be to apply the first layer of chop mat and resin. I recommend purchasing the chopmat and resin from US Composites. You will need to purchase a gallon of 435 Standard Polyester Layup Resin and a bottle of MEKP. You will also need to purchase about 3 yards of 2oz. chopmat. This might be a bit more chopmat than you need, but at $3.95 a yard, you’ll be glad you have it if you need it. Chop this up into 2” x 8” rectangles. While you’re at it, cut the first 1/16” of the bristles off of your brushes as this wil get rid of any stray hairs that may get yanked out as you’re glassing.
You will want to mix up 32oz. of resin and the respective amount of MEKP (1/8oz, I believe) and stir for a good 3 minutes. You can double your MEKP addition, but this will lend to shorter working times and should not be done unless you are fully confident with how fast you can do this. You will want to start by brushing a thin layer of the mix onto the tape. Then lay down a strip of chopmat onto the resin. I DON’T recommend foil here as the resin will not stick as well to the foil as it does the tape and can make an easy step unnecessarily difficult for a first timer.
Using your brush, brush over the strip of chopmat until it is full saturated. It should be clear at this point in time. Continue this step until the entire are you have taped over is covered in soaked chopmat. As you go along, you will want to push the air bubbles that may form out using a tapping method and pushing forward (this is known as stippling).
Allow the resin a few hours to cure. Any unused resin will harden up in the bucket and can be tapped out when it is cured so that the bucket can be used again. Continue this process an additional time. Do it a third time if you REALLY want to make it strong, although two ought to do.
Alright, here’s my take on the subject matter…
BILL OF MATERIALS
U.S. COMPOSITES
1 gallon 435 Standard Polyester Layup Resin
1 bottle MEKP
3 yards 2oz. Chopmat
HOME DEPOT
1 Roll 2” 3M Painters Tape
2 64oz. Paint-Mixing Buckets
8 Paint Mixing Sticks
8 Cheapo 2” Horsehair Disposable Brushes
1 Tube Liquid Nails
Latex Gloves
¾” MDF Board
Shears (not necessary, recommended)
STEP I – TAPE OVER
In order to cover the entire space of the spare wheel well, you will need to cover the entire interior of it. The first thing to do will be to tape the entire surface area of the spare well…this will mean that you tape the entire well AND and additional two inches around the opening of the well. For this I would recommend using 3M Painters Tape…I have found this tape FAR easier to use than the regular scotch tape as the heat from the resin curing tends to heat up the adhesive on the tape and make it a real PITA to peel off once everything is all said and done. I DON’T recommend using tin foil. You’ll find out why in a moment. You may want to consider cutting off the spare-wheel thread connector…this will give you additional volume…I don’t know what the depth of your subwoofer motor is, you’re going to want to make sure that the baffle of the sub sits around 1” above the floor level of the trunk with no clearance issues.
STEP II – LAYUP
The first step of glassing will be to apply the first layer of chop mat and resin. I recommend purchasing the chopmat and resin from US Composites. You will need to purchase a gallon of 435 Standard Polyester Layup Resin and a bottle of MEKP. You will also need to purchase about 3 yards of 2oz. chopmat. This might be a bit more chopmat than you need, but at $3.95 a yard, you’ll be glad you have it if you need it. Chop this up into 2” x 8” rectangles. While you’re at it, cut the first 1/16” of the bristles off of your brushes as this wil get rid of any stray hairs that may get yanked out as you’re glassing.
You will want to mix up 32oz. of resin and the respective amount of MEKP (1/8oz, I believe) and stir for a good 3 minutes. You can double your MEKP addition, but this will lend to shorter working times and should not be done unless you are fully confident with how fast you can do this. You will want to start by brushing a thin layer of the mix onto the tape. Then lay down a strip of chopmat onto the resin. I DON’T recommend foil here as the resin will not stick as well to the foil as it does the tape and can make an easy step unnecessarily difficult for a first timer.
Using your brush, brush over the strip of chopmat until it is full saturated. It should be clear at this point in time. Continue this step until the entire are you have taped over is covered in soaked chopmat. As you go along, you will want to push the air bubbles that may form out using a tapping method and pushing forward (this is known as stippling).
Allow the resin a few hours to cure. Any unused resin will harden up in the bucket and can be tapped out when it is cured so that the bucket can be used again. Continue this process an additional time. Do it a third time if you REALLY want to make it strong, although two ought to do.
08-22-2006, 12:20 PM
#14
STEP III - TRIMMING
Once the resin is cured you can just pop everything out. You will tell it is fully cured when it is no longer giving off heat. It should look like a bowl with a large rim. Now, it's going to be a little tough to pull it out, I recommend sticking your fingers underneath of one edge, brying the first inch or so up all around the perimeter, then starting back and going under, inch-by inch.
Once the 'bowl' is out, you will need to trim the edges...if you want to. It will be hidden, so it's up to you. At this point in time, I recommend filling the bowl with water to ensure that it is airtight.
STEP IV - TOP PLATE
Turn the bowl upside down on the MDF. Trace around the outer perimeter with a permanent marker. This is now your top. Cut the MDF to shape. Measure the INNER DIAMETER of the subwoofer mounting baffle. Mark the center of the mounting plate and draw the circle. Cut the circle out and test fit the sub. Drill a small hole to lead the sub wire through the bowl. Lead the wires through this hole and seal with liquid nails. Line the top up with the 'bowl' and use liquid nails to seal the two peices together.
STEP V - FINISHING
All you need to do now is cover the plate...if you want to. You just need to put some spray glue down and cover with carpet...then wire & mount the sub, and you're done!
Once the resin is cured you can just pop everything out. You will tell it is fully cured when it is no longer giving off heat. It should look like a bowl with a large rim. Now, it's going to be a little tough to pull it out, I recommend sticking your fingers underneath of one edge, brying the first inch or so up all around the perimeter, then starting back and going under, inch-by inch.
Once the 'bowl' is out, you will need to trim the edges...if you want to. It will be hidden, so it's up to you. At this point in time, I recommend filling the bowl with water to ensure that it is airtight.
STEP IV - TOP PLATE
Turn the bowl upside down on the MDF. Trace around the outer perimeter with a permanent marker. This is now your top. Cut the MDF to shape. Measure the INNER DIAMETER of the subwoofer mounting baffle. Mark the center of the mounting plate and draw the circle. Cut the circle out and test fit the sub. Drill a small hole to lead the sub wire through the bowl. Lead the wires through this hole and seal with liquid nails. Line the top up with the 'bowl' and use liquid nails to seal the two peices together.
STEP V - FINISHING
All you need to do now is cover the plate...if you want to. You just need to put some spray glue down and cover with carpet...then wire & mount the sub, and you're done!
08-22-2006, 01:44 PM
#15
FINAL NOTES
The key items here are
(1) MAKE SURE THE ENCLOSURE IS AIRTIGHT! I cannot stress this enough. If it is not full sealed, the smallest leak can result in big SPL losses.
(2) MEASURE, MEASURE, MEASURE. You are going to be mounting this in the spare tire well. You need to make sure that the sub FITS inside with respect to depth. How do you want your sub fitting? Do you care it's 2 - 3" above the OEM floorboard...or do you want it flush, which would require cutting off the OEM thread port for the spare? It's up to you. In any event, I hope this helps. Follow these steps and you'll be as right as rain!
The key items here are
(1) MAKE SURE THE ENCLOSURE IS AIRTIGHT! I cannot stress this enough. If it is not full sealed, the smallest leak can result in big SPL losses.
(2) MEASURE, MEASURE, MEASURE. You are going to be mounting this in the spare tire well. You need to make sure that the sub FITS inside with respect to depth. How do you want your sub fitting? Do you care it's 2 - 3" above the OEM floorboard...or do you want it flush, which would require cutting off the OEM thread port for the spare? It's up to you. In any event, I hope this helps. Follow these steps and you'll be as right as rain!
08-22-2006, 02:09 PM
#16
Back from Hibernation
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,100
I know Dan does some great stuff and definately knows his stuff, but please keep in mind all the time that is saved by doing it the way I was taught by this guy Mic (who REALLY knows his stuff...IASCA world champ and used to be the guy that would do your car if you went to any Tweeter in the Baltimore/DC area and requested real custom work). I did it the wway Dan explained when I did my spare well enclosure in my old Tercel 
and it too much longer then the way I explained, and results are identical....You don't have to take the time to tape up or take the time to lay individual pieces of chopmat to make the mold. This is done for you by the fleece being stretched by the shape you make. And for buildup, PLEASE take my advice and use the knytex. I can' say enough about it for the purposes of solid buildup.
No disrespect meant to Dan AT ALL ...he's definately a great glasser....
and it too much longer then the way I explained, and results are identical....You don't have to take the time to tape up or take the time to lay individual pieces of chopmat to make the mold. This is done for you by the fleece being stretched by the shape you make. And for buildup, PLEASE take my advice and use the knytex. I can' say enough about it for the purposes of solid buildup.No disrespect meant to Dan AT ALL ...he's definately a great glasser....
08-22-2006, 02:13 PM
#17
Originally Posted by BBOYSTEVIE
You don't have to take the time to tape up or take the time to lay individual pieces of chopmat to make the mold. This is done for you by the fleece being stretched by the shape you make.
And for buildup, PLEASE take my advice and use the knytex. I can' say enough about it for the purposes of solid buildup.
Oh, and about the foil - foil is much smoother and does not hold the resin as well as tape. This is Tim's first FG job, so I am recommending he use the easier of the two.
Either method will work equally as well (tape v. foil), it just a matter of what you are more comfortable using.
08-22-2006, 02:20 PM
#18
Back from Hibernation
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,100
Dan ...
You get knytex and shopman. http://www.shopmaninc.com/specialty.html The first few listings on this page are it, and are specifically meant for structural buildup. Two layers supposedly is more than enough for any sub enclosure application but I used three to be safe and it's a good bit over 1/4 inch thick.
As far as my method compared to yours, first off I think it's easier (and quicker), as thats certainly preferable for his first glass project, or anyones project for that matter. If it's built up strong structurally, what does it matter if it's a 'TRUE' mold or not. It will fit perfectly well in his spare tire well, and will have about 95% of the airspace of the "true" mold you speak of. And like I said, much quicker and easier. So can you explain why you think this woulnd't work. I did my first spare tire well the way you did, but when I did this project with Mic, I was amazed at how quickly and easily it got done....
So given that he only gets 95% of the airspace (prolly not a problem since a spare tire well has a good bit of space), what do you think is wrong with it?
You get knytex and shopman. http://www.shopmaninc.com/specialty.html The first few listings on this page are it, and are specifically meant for structural buildup. Two layers supposedly is more than enough for any sub enclosure application but I used three to be safe and it's a good bit over 1/4 inch thick.
As far as my method compared to yours, first off I think it's easier (and quicker), as thats certainly preferable for his first glass project, or anyones project for that matter. If it's built up strong structurally, what does it matter if it's a 'TRUE' mold or not. It will fit perfectly well in his spare tire well, and will have about 95% of the airspace of the "true" mold you speak of. And like I said, much quicker and easier. So can you explain why you think this woulnd't work. I did my first spare tire well the way you did, but when I did this project with Mic, I was amazed at how quickly and easily it got done....
So given that he only gets 95% of the airspace (prolly not a problem since a spare tire well has a good bit of space), what do you think is wrong with it?
08-22-2006, 02:53 PM
#19
I won a lot of 4 of these types of cloths today on ebay for $7. Thought it might be a good option to use. If not, I'll just use them for something else. What's $7?
This thread is quickly becoming sticky material...
Get it? Sticky? See what I did there?
This thread is quickly becoming sticky material...
Get it? Sticky? See what I did there?
08-22-2006, 02:57 PM
#20
Originally Posted by BBOYSTEVIE
So given that he only gets 95% of the airspace (prolly not a problem since a spare tire well has a good bit of space), what do you think is wrong with it?
08-22-2006, 02:58 PM
#21
Back from Hibernation
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,100
You'd need A LOT of that to get the buildup you need for a sub box...A LOT! Knytex is real cheap considering it's sold at shopman by the linear yard. If you choose to use Dan's method over mine, I'd prefer chopped mat over fiberglass cloth for that first base layer. I've found it easier to work with, especially for a first layer. When trying to do a first layer with cloth like that, I found it woulnd't sit where i really want it to.
Knytex is your friend! Get 2 linear yards for well under $20 and do it right and do it quick!
Knytex is your friend! Get 2 linear yards for well under $20 and do it right and do it quick!
08-22-2006, 03:03 PM
#22
I think each package is 8^3'
Steve & Dan - I really appreciate both your input on this subject. Having 2 different methods is much better than none at all, so again, I thank you both. But here's the thing, I'll probably end up doing some of both as I'm not really one to go back to the directions once I get going with something. I was hoping to get some good suggestions on this project, and you both have delivered supurbly. I am getting more and more excited about this project as this thread goes on and the more I think about it.
Steve & Dan - I really appreciate both your input on this subject. Having 2 different methods is much better than none at all, so again, I thank you both. But here's the thing, I'll probably end up doing some of both as I'm not really one to go back to the directions once I get going with something. I was hoping to get some good suggestions on this project, and you both have delivered supurbly. I am getting more and more excited about this project as this thread goes on and the more I think about it.
08-22-2006, 03:04 PM
#23
Back from Hibernation
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,100
Originally Posted by Metal Maxima
Fleece wraps are a much more difficult project than standard layup projects, IMHO...the chopmat is far easier to work with for a FG n00b.
Thats cool if you feel that way...that opinion I disagree with though, as I've done both ways. To me for the noob, having to glass that first layer in the turnk with pieces of mat is way tougher and certainly more time consuming. Much more time with glass in the trunk, properly sobbing up every piece and of course taping beforehand. Putting the wood where it belongs/securing it with the fleece around it makes the shape you want (easier then the mold making and wrapping I had to do for my "enclosure") then it's as simple as sobbing it up wih resin, leting it cure, taking it out, and building it up.
So long as you understand that it can work just as well when built up properly, if you feel it's tougher thats cool, I guess we just disagree. I wonder if you'd feel differently if you'd try it sometime that way though....I guess he'll decide which way he wants.
08-22-2006, 03:05 PM
#24
Back from Hibernation
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,100
Originally Posted by SEmy2K2go
I think each package is 8^3'
Steve & Dan - I really appreciate both your input on this subject. Having 2 different methods is much better than none at all, so again, I thank you both. But here's the thing, I'll probably end up doing some of both as I'm not really one to go back to the directions once I get going with something. I was hoping to get some good suggestions on this project, and you both have delivered supurbly. I am getting more and more excited about this project as this thread goes on and the more I think about it.
Steve & Dan - I really appreciate both your input on this subject. Having 2 different methods is much better than none at all, so again, I thank you both. But here's the thing, I'll probably end up doing some of both as I'm not really one to go back to the directions once I get going with something. I was hoping to get some good suggestions on this project, and you both have delivered supurbly. I am getting more and more excited about this project as this thread goes on and the more I think about it.
Yeah you're kinda making me wanna build a sub tire enclosure for fun. It's been a while since I've done it for a sub, and I think it's a great way to go. If you lived around here I'd definately invite you over my place to make it a quick duo project.
08-22-2006, 03:08 PM
#25
Back from Hibernation
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,100
PS I'm surprised the Don doesn't chime in here. Though I haven't seen any of his glass creations, I thought he went out of state for a fiberglassing class. that I'm jealous of. I'd love to take a class on the advanced facets of glass. The basics are so easy though, once you get your feet wet.....
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
litch
4th Generation Maxima (1995-1999)
123
01-04-2024 07:01 PM