THE Audio thread ! 06/07/08/09/10/11/12/13ers move along..
01-28-2009, 08:17 PM
#4241
I tend to get a bit irritable
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The masses would determine the winner. 10 people with good trained ears says that one is better than the other, wouldnt you tend to agree? Isnt this how the majority of the world works ?
01-28-2009, 08:18 PM
#4242
I tend to get a bit irritable
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SPL numbers mean what ?? It is loud? Is that what car audio has come to for you? Do you also have a distortion analyzer to determine what is 'loud' and what is actual music ?
01-28-2009, 08:24 PM
#4243
I tend to get a bit irritable
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I was trying to think of things that can easily be measured. I have no way of recording any #'s regarding actual distortion or transient response. SPL @ a freq. range can be done via the TL.
Honestly, the GTi seems to have less and less credibility with me. Or should we all just agree with Don and Parag b/c they claim this to be an amazing driver. It is general responses like these that discourage people from even attempting to try and compare drivers. Not saying just you, so don't think I am singling you out. It seems every time someone tries to do this, there is always someone that can do it better and has a better method. The bad part is, of thier suggestions, very few people have the ability or funds to have the equipment necessary to perform the test suggested. I know for sure I don't.
I have no interest in trying to do this anymore. There will always be someone that disagrees with the methodology or scale of measure. I think every test needs its opposition, I am just not willing to waste my time and energy to do it.
Lastly, I will never waste my money of overpriced unproven drivers again. I did it with the TDX's based upon other peoples reviews, wasted money, and had a horrible experience with the company since.
Honestly, the GTi seems to have less and less credibility with me. Or should we all just agree with Don and Parag b/c they claim this to be an amazing driver. It is general responses like these that discourage people from even attempting to try and compare drivers. Not saying just you, so don't think I am singling you out. It seems every time someone tries to do this, there is always someone that can do it better and has a better method. The bad part is, of thier suggestions, very few people have the ability or funds to have the equipment necessary to perform the test suggested. I know for sure I don't.
I have no interest in trying to do this anymore. There will always be someone that disagrees with the methodology or scale of measure. I think every test needs its opposition, I am just not willing to waste my time and energy to do it.
Lastly, I will never waste my money of overpriced unproven drivers again. I did it with the TDX's based upon other peoples reviews, wasted money, and had a horrible experience with the company since.
Overpriced and unproven? You do realize that MANY people would gladly point out their love for the GTi. Do a search, hell post an open poll on DIYMA or CA. The GTi is based off of and almost nearly as whole the same as JBLs pro line subs. Is this also unproven to you? Is JBL that low on the totem pole in your eyes ? Check around, they have done Very well for themselves in the Pro industry. What has RE done ? Nada.
In this same thread you mentioned that you liked the TDXs alot and for quite some time. Now it is wasted money ? Yes, the company sucks, but how does that reflect upon the performance of the driver itself? Diamond in its entirety failed a while back, does that make Eton, LPG and Esoteric bad companies/products? I surely think not.
01-28-2009, 09:01 PM
#4244
speaker testing is not a new science, the parameters are already laid out.
btw, spl a specific frequency is very different from frequency response.
i personally never mentioned a preference towards either driver. one thing i will say though is the gti is far from unproven and it seems that your perception of the driver's "credibility" is based on ppl disagreeing with you rather than any type of further research. if you had you would find that it is a very highly regarded woofer even outside of the .org's little audio corner.
finally, you seem too be taking this way too personally for a "friendly discussion". understand that people will always have opinions (and some will even have facts) rather than taking it as someone just disagreeing with you for the sake of disagreeing.
but like you implied, you don't have to take anyone's word for anything. however, i advise that when you are the one without the hands/ears on experience you might want to check your assumptions when dealing with someone who has said experience. especially when they are persons with credibility. for the record, i am not referring to myself... woofas are teh ghey.
btw, spl a specific frequency is very different from frequency response.
i personally never mentioned a preference towards either driver. one thing i will say though is the gti is far from unproven and it seems that your perception of the driver's "credibility" is based on ppl disagreeing with you rather than any type of further research. if you had you would find that it is a very highly regarded woofer even outside of the .org's little audio corner.
finally, you seem too be taking this way too personally for a "friendly discussion". understand that people will always have opinions (and some will even have facts) rather than taking it as someone just disagreeing with you for the sake of disagreeing.
but like you implied, you don't have to take anyone's word for anything. however, i advise that when you are the one without the hands/ears on experience you might want to check your assumptions when dealing with someone who has said experience. especially when they are persons with credibility. for the record, i am not referring to myself... woofas are teh ghey.
My lack of desire to conduct some real world trials to see which one would be preferable faded when my ideas were shot down, mocked, etc by others here. I am in no way mad. Don't misunderstand my typed words. I just won't let something that started out as a possible fun project get out of hand and turn into something bad. I just don't have the patience.
I will just choose to reserve my opinion, that doesn't matter anyway, until I am proven wrong by actually hearing them. Until then, it really doesn't matter.
01-28-2009, 09:02 PM
#4245
First, your testing methods are still flawed bud.
The absolute first thing is a control. You do not have this. I know, I know you will use your car, or someones car. Not good enough. A controlled environment as well as control products. Oddly this is what I have downstairs.
Secondly, you are still looking at the cost figures.
'test that excludes price, than the GTi would need a different competitor'
Why ??? Because it costs more? No, let's stick with the initial subject of the SE. Because the GTi costs more, it needs a more costly competitor? Absolutely not.
The absolute first thing is a control. You do not have this. I know, I know you will use your car, or someones car. Not good enough. A controlled environment as well as control products. Oddly this is what I have downstairs.
Secondly, you are still looking at the cost figures.
'test that excludes price, than the GTi would need a different competitor'
Why ??? Because it costs more? No, let's stick with the initial subject of the SE. Because the GTi costs more, it needs a more costly competitor? Absolutely not.
I agree, they are flawed.
But it doesn't matter any more, does it.
01-28-2009, 09:03 PM
#4246
Wow, for a friendly discussion, theres quite a few jabs being thrown.
Nice to see everyones point of view tho.
I've owned the RE Se, and my roomate has the JBL GTI.
I like both. The JBL sounded a bit better. However both subs were in different vehicles, with different amplifiers, and different equipment.
So I guess what I like isn't valid? Although I do like the JBL.
BTW, I think everyone posting here has pretty good taste in equipment.
Nice to see everyones point of view tho.
I've owned the RE Se, and my roomate has the JBL GTI.
I like both. The JBL sounded a bit better. However both subs were in different vehicles, with different amplifiers, and different equipment.
So I guess what I like isn't valid? Although I do like the JBL.
BTW, I think everyone posting here has pretty good taste in equipment.
Last edited by chinaonnitrous1; 01-28-2009 at 09:04 PM. Reason: Adding more emoticons. I had 3. Maximum 5. Must be maxed out.
01-28-2009, 09:08 PM
#4247
01-28-2009, 09:13 PM
#4248
I tend to get a bit irritable
iTrader: (151)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central Jersey
Posts: 17,671
Your clients are the exception. The vast majority of people here buy cheap and try to make the best of it. I seem to be in the settling category and have been since I started dropping all my spare cash on audio. To me, and here goes another big opinion, there is a point that the cost is too high. It may be a condition of my economic situation, but it is what it is. Ears are definitely the best judge, no doubt, I have yet to be able to recreate some of the best sounding systems, even with the purchase of "higher end" gear. It seems like an endless endevour. One of which I seem to never tire.
01-28-2009, 09:14 PM
#4249
And as far as how the world works. There are few things I know. Change is inevitable, and given the choice people will choose thier self interest over yours. I still don't think I would "trust" those 10 people to be the end of all discussion, possibly a solid starting point.
01-28-2009, 09:16 PM
#4250
I tend to get a bit irritable
iTrader: (151)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central Jersey
Posts: 17,671
Wow, for a friendly discussion, theres quite a few jabs being thrown.
Nice to see everyones point of view tho.
I've owned the RE Se, and my roomate has the JBL GTI.
I like both. The JBL sounded a bit better. However both subs were in different vehicles, with different amplifiers, and different equipment.
So I guess what I like isn't valid? Although I do like the JBL.
BTW, I think everyone posting here has pretty good taste in equipment.
Nice to see everyones point of view tho.
I've owned the RE Se, and my roomate has the JBL GTI.
I like both. The JBL sounded a bit better. However both subs were in different vehicles, with different amplifiers, and different equipment.
So I guess what I like isn't valid? Although I do like the JBL.
BTW, I think everyone posting here has pretty good taste in equipment.
For the record and FWIW ...I am not a JBL dealer, nor do I regularly promote their products. I will however provide one if the client wants it. It is actually a superb sub and have no problem offering it when requested, but the end of the day fact is that is not my regular product line offerings. It came up here, so I stood my ground.
01-28-2009, 09:21 PM
#4251
I tend to get a bit irritable
iTrader: (151)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central Jersey
Posts: 17,671
I suppose that a group of 10 would be a good start as a test bed, but again, it doesn't matter anymore.
And as far as how the world works. There are few things I know. Change is inevitable, and given the choice people will choose thier self interest over yours. I still don't think I would "trust" those 10 people to be the end of all discussion, possibly a solid starting point.
And as far as how the world works. There are few things I know. Change is inevitable, and given the choice people will choose thier self interest over yours. I still don't think I would "trust" those 10 people to be the end of all discussion, possibly a solid starting point.
Chris, seriously I understand you have ties to the RE/Fi crew, but truth be told I can honestly say you would have a different voice of opinion overall when blindfolded listening takes place. Would you still enjoy those products? I am sure you will, but the end results may surprise you. I can appreciate your passion for your buddies business and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but again the results would be surprising.
Do I deal with alot of 'high end' ? Absolutely, one may even ask, why so many different lines? Simple ..options. Is Dynaudio the end all, be all? Overall, no. There is no company out there that can lay that claim. Will some prefer Rainbow, Morel, DLS, Alumapro, etc ? Absolutely and THAT my friend is why I offer them. Not to confuse, but to accommodate.
01-28-2009, 09:23 PM
#4252
Overpriced and unproven? You do realize that MANY people would gladly point out their love for the GTi. Do a search, hell post an open poll on DIYMA or CA. The GTi is based off of and almost nearly as whole the same as JBLs pro line subs. Is this also unproven to you? Is JBL that low on the totem pole in your eyes ? Check around, they have done Very well for themselves in the Pro industry. What has RE done ? Nada.
In this same thread you mentioned that you liked the TDXs alot and for quite some time. Now it is wasted money ? Yes, the company sucks, but how does that reflect upon the performance of the driver itself? Diamond in its entirety failed a while back, does that make Eton, LPG and Esoteric bad companies/products? I surely think not.
In this same thread you mentioned that you liked the TDXs alot and for quite some time. Now it is wasted money ? Yes, the company sucks, but how does that reflect upon the performance of the driver itself? Diamond in its entirety failed a while back, does that make Eton, LPG and Esoteric bad companies/products? I surely think not.
I did like the TDX a lot. However, after hearing other drivers that better fit my goals, I do feel like I overpaid. I agree, the company does suck. I have never had any dealing with Eton, LPG, or Esoteric to my knowledge. So I really couldn't say.
01-28-2009, 09:28 PM
#4253
As I mentioned earlier, I have no way to measure distortion. Most people I know wouldn't recognize it even at low levels from the subs in the trunk of thier car. I feel that it is important to have low levels of distortion in my car, but too many others really don't care.
01-28-2009, 09:30 PM
#4254
Wow, for a friendly discussion, theres quite a few jabs being thrown.
Nice to see everyones point of view tho.
I've owned the RE Se, and my roomate has the JBL GTI.
I like both. The JBL sounded a bit better. However both subs were in different vehicles, with different amplifiers, and different equipment.
So I guess what I like isn't valid? Although I do like the JBL.
BTW, I think everyone posting here has pretty good taste in equipment.
Nice to see everyones point of view tho.
I've owned the RE Se, and my roomate has the JBL GTI.
I like both. The JBL sounded a bit better. However both subs were in different vehicles, with different amplifiers, and different equipment.
So I guess what I like isn't valid? Although I do like the JBL.
BTW, I think everyone posting here has pretty good taste in equipment.
This type of discussion usually happens when you find a group of people pationate about something. My feeling aren't hurt either way.
01-28-2009, 09:40 PM
#4257
But why should they be an exception? Why do you have a Maxima and not a Kia? Do you buy Nike/Adidas/etc over Keds ? Surely you do, but why? Car audio is often overlooked and or taken for granted since everyone has a radio in their car from the factory they hardly pay it much mind. However if music is something that you truly enjoy, why settle since you dont settle elsewhere? Why did you grab the PC router? Not because it was the best bang for the buck ..
I do truely enjoy music. I just couldn't justify spending more on drivers. Particularly subs. I did settle with my components. I picked them out because I thought they would be fun to try out. Not because I knew they would be good. I guess that I am more price sensitive now than I ever have been. I still don't think price is a unworthy basis for comparison. But w/e.
The PC router was recommended to me by people that use it. I bought it because the company makes a great product and people have told me that it will last. As I have zero experience with routers, I had to make a decision. Buy for cheap or hope that the people weren't full of it. Time will tell. I hope I made the right choice and the PC fits my goals and doesn't break.
01-28-2009, 09:51 PM
#4258
A very solid starting point though. No decision can be made for you, but then again you cannot make a conscious decision when you have some ties and relations with the other company.
Chris, seriously I understand you have ties to the RE/Fi crew, but truth be told I can honestly say you would have a different voice of opinion overall when blindfolded listening takes place. Would you still enjoy those products? I am sure you will, but the end results may surprise you. I can appreciate your passion for your buddies business and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but again the results would be surprising.
Do I deal with alot of 'high end' ? Absolutely, one may even ask, why so many different lines? Simple ..options. Is Dynaudio the end all, be all? Overall, no. There is no company out there that can lay that claim. Will some prefer Rainbow, Morel, DLS, Alumapro, etc ? Absolutely and THAT my friend is why I offer them. Not to confuse, but to accommodate.
Chris, seriously I understand you have ties to the RE/Fi crew, but truth be told I can honestly say you would have a different voice of opinion overall when blindfolded listening takes place. Would you still enjoy those products? I am sure you will, but the end results may surprise you. I can appreciate your passion for your buddies business and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but again the results would be surprising.
Do I deal with alot of 'high end' ? Absolutely, one may even ask, why so many different lines? Simple ..options. Is Dynaudio the end all, be all? Overall, no. There is no company out there that can lay that claim. Will some prefer Rainbow, Morel, DLS, Alumapro, etc ? Absolutely and THAT my friend is why I offer them. Not to confuse, but to accommodate.
And I appreciate the wide bredth of products you offer and your reasoning behind offering so many. This is by no means a commentary on you. I have stated openly what I think about your business, mainly through being a customer, but also a friend. So don't think I am attacking you, and I hope others don't think that either. If I were to invest in drivers that cost more than what I have, they would have to take it to the base, ***** deep and hold it there so I would have a difinitive answer as to thier supiriority so I could justify the cost. I just have a hard time seeing that happening.
01-28-2009, 10:14 PM
#4267
I take it chris likes dark meat...
*ahem* Interesting read...here's my 2 cents...
I heard both GTi and SE, ported and sealed. To me the GTi is cleaner with it output. The SEs isn't a bad driver either. Both can get fairly loud given proper power and in the right enclosure. Would I spend the extra money for it? It really depends on what I'm aiming for. If I was going for clarity, I would get the GTi. But if I was just looking for another daily sub, it would be the SE.
*ahem* Interesting read...here's my 2 cents...
I heard both GTi and SE, ported and sealed. To me the GTi is cleaner with it output. The SEs isn't a bad driver either. Both can get fairly loud given proper power and in the right enclosure. Would I spend the extra money for it? It really depends on what I'm aiming for. If I was going for clarity, I would get the GTi. But if I was just looking for another daily sub, it would be the SE.
