need some direction with install
04-24-2008, 01:58 PM
#1
need some direction with install
Ok so all the parts are ordered and on the way. I'm trying to think ahead and do research on how to install everything. I get confused when I do so much research cause I hit so many different things. Right now I'm concerned about myu headunit and my amp. First, I read a thread on soundomain that talks about bad grounds blowing the microfuses inside the pioneers. There is something about grounding the unit seperately to the chassis. That going to be enough? Also read about hissing amps and setting the gain. Want to make sure that I set this stuff up correctly and don't hit these problems. Also what tips do you have installing everything? I'm doing a complete install. Avic D3, front components, rear fills, amp and sub. What should I be concerned with as a first time installer?
04-24-2008, 04:02 PM
#2
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Just take your time...I'm not familiar with pioneer stuff, but as long as you get a really good ground, it should be enough..so far I haven't blown and fuses since my full Alpine Type-S system install...As far as the gains, just start low, and keep adjusting to your liking...Hissing amps is usually caused by a bad ground, the audio cable being to close to a power wire(alternator whine) or even a bad output on the deck.
Like I said though, main thing is taking your time and doing it right the first time so it doesn't cost you in the long run...good luck!
Like I said though, main thing is taking your time and doing it right the first time so it doesn't cost you in the long run...good luck!
04-24-2008, 04:23 PM
#3
ok thanks. Alpine are built with better sound surpressing I believe so they don't have the same microfuse problems. Make sure I ground that thing really good. If I take 14g and ground the ring terminal to a spot under the shifter console will that be ok? Or do I need a better ground?
04-24-2008, 06:01 PM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NJ and AZ
Posts: 548
ok for starters, the HU is grounded via the antennna cable. By no means should you leave this as the sole ground. The HU will come with a black ground lead, makes ure you ground that one to the chassis.
Check out my bose thread stuff and you should get alot of answers in there. I have alot on wiring harnesses, i have taken the liberty to read the maint. manual and figure out what and where each wire goes to on the harness. Use that as a guide
Blowing fuses/microfuses is going to be a result of bad grounds most likely and any surges in the system, hence why there are fuses.
Remember to run all new wiring, do not use the stock wiring that nissan installed to power the speakers. Those wires were only meant to carry the signal so make sure to run all new wires. As for the amp, as always, make sure it has a clean and firm ground to the chassis.
Gain info - Ok, gain is a great little thing if you know how to use it properly. Turning the gain to max will not make your system louder, actually it will makeit distort at lower volumes most of the time. Gain was designed to ceate compatibility amongst different pieces of equipment so in the end, everything works harmoniously. For instance, if you had 2 amps 1 jl and 1 alpine and the voltages are different, the sound would be louder out of one amp than the other. With gain, you can adjust the voltage so that both speakers are at the same volume consistantly.
Heres how to set the gain. Your HU will send a signal to your amp, some HU's have gains on them, but i dont know if yours will. You will run the rca's from the HU to the amp and from here you can start tuning. You want to put in your fav type of music, whatever it may be and crank your system with the gain on the amp on low. You want to turn the gain up slowly until the speakers start to distort and then back the gain off a wee bit. When you do this, you ensure maximum usage of the system.
Also, keep in mind, your system will start distorting if the speakers receive a signal that has freq's that are too low. The higher the cutoff is the louder the system will go. Personally, i keep my alpine HU set at 60hz. Bose has theirs set lower, i know this for a fact because my speakers dont hit as low as they used to, but, going lower isnt an option on my HU. You can always futz around with the bass and treble but remember, tuning your system takes a while. Everytime you drive you will find yourself tweaking it until you have a happy medium between allof themusic you listen to. Initial tuning is very important, this will get you close to your goal, but the fine tuning is where it counts.
if you have anyother questions pm me, email me, or catch me on aim, im usually on and always willing to help.
Check out my bose thread stuff and you should get alot of answers in there. I have alot on wiring harnesses, i have taken the liberty to read the maint. manual and figure out what and where each wire goes to on the harness. Use that as a guide
Blowing fuses/microfuses is going to be a result of bad grounds most likely and any surges in the system, hence why there are fuses.
Remember to run all new wiring, do not use the stock wiring that nissan installed to power the speakers. Those wires were only meant to carry the signal so make sure to run all new wires. As for the amp, as always, make sure it has a clean and firm ground to the chassis.
Gain info - Ok, gain is a great little thing if you know how to use it properly. Turning the gain to max will not make your system louder, actually it will makeit distort at lower volumes most of the time. Gain was designed to ceate compatibility amongst different pieces of equipment so in the end, everything works harmoniously. For instance, if you had 2 amps 1 jl and 1 alpine and the voltages are different, the sound would be louder out of one amp than the other. With gain, you can adjust the voltage so that both speakers are at the same volume consistantly.
Heres how to set the gain. Your HU will send a signal to your amp, some HU's have gains on them, but i dont know if yours will. You will run the rca's from the HU to the amp and from here you can start tuning. You want to put in your fav type of music, whatever it may be and crank your system with the gain on the amp on low. You want to turn the gain up slowly until the speakers start to distort and then back the gain off a wee bit. When you do this, you ensure maximum usage of the system.
Also, keep in mind, your system will start distorting if the speakers receive a signal that has freq's that are too low. The higher the cutoff is the louder the system will go. Personally, i keep my alpine HU set at 60hz. Bose has theirs set lower, i know this for a fact because my speakers dont hit as low as they used to, but, going lower isnt an option on my HU. You can always futz around with the bass and treble but remember, tuning your system takes a while. Everytime you drive you will find yourself tweaking it until you have a happy medium between allof themusic you listen to. Initial tuning is very important, this will get you close to your goal, but the fine tuning is where it counts.
if you have anyother questions pm me, email me, or catch me on aim, im usually on and always willing to help.
04-24-2008, 06:39 PM
#5
thanks alot for the help. Everything will be new. New stuff and new wire. Info about the gain is great thanks. Just one thing about the low freq. Do I need to make sure the gain is up far enough? That what you mean? I'll let you know when I think of ?'s.
04-27-2008, 11:30 AM
#9
different animal altogetherAs for the xover, You are running passive. ON the output from the radio (Front and Rear (High and Mid) ((The non fading being your subs)) you want to set the xover on the radio or amp to 80hz, i believe the manual on the germs sayd a slot pf 12db. So you use the
HPF on the radio at 80hz 80/----------
means they play eighty hertz UP to whatever
LPF on the radio at 80hz ----\80
means the sub plays eighty hertz down to your tuning freq, or whatever.
the gain set below the level of audioble distortion to the music you listen to.i set my radio to 70 out of 80 as MY MAX level. the amps are ALL the way down as is bass boost on the sub, and if need be i make minor adjustments from there.
04-27-2008, 02:47 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NJ and AZ
Posts: 548
i have my alpine HPF set at 60hz and my rf mono amp for my subs LPF set at 80hz. I like to make sure there is a nice fade betwen the two and for the times that i dont hve my subs on, i like to have the speakers hit the lower frequencies.
What i meant by the whole gain thing with lower frequencies is that, the higher the gain you have the faster the lower fequencies will begin to distort in your speakers.
take this scenario for instance. this is completely hypothetical and all these numbers are made up before i get flammed.
You really want your speakers to go down to 60hz. You also want to achieve a volume of 100 out of 100. You have set your gain all the way to max. As you turn up your volume, you begin to hear distortion at volume 50 because the bass is too heavy. You turn your LPF to 70hz instead of 60 hz and you turn your volume up again. This time your volume reaches 60 instead of 50. The reason for this is because your speakers can only produce frequencies efficiently at certain volume levels.
this scenario is based on you trading off low frequency ranges for high gain for a louder stereo system.
What you want to do is decide how loud you want to speakers to be with a certain HPF. If you want a 60hz crossover for your HPF then start your gain at minimum and tun your volume up until it maxes out with distortion, or none at all. If it maxes out with distortion at a low gain, do not increase gain as it will be detrimental. Now with the gain on low, you shouldnt reach distortion when the volume maxes out. Most HU's today only have a certain volume range so you can max it. Increase the gain with the volume on max until you hear speaker distortion. When you reach that point, you have reached the maximum gain setting for your speakers set with a 60hz HPF xover. You want to back the gain off a bit until the there is no distortion. You system is now fully and properly set for 60hz HPF with maximum volume.
Now, if you would like to reach a higher volume then what you have now, you may have to adjust your HPF to a higher frequency. Choose 70hz this time for instance. IF you max out your volume at 70hz you will notice no distortion. Go back and increase your gain again until you hear distortion and back it off as you did before to prevent speaker damage. Your volumke should be higher now due to a trade off of frequency for amplitude (volume).
Now this is a hypothetical situation with figticious numbers. You should use this as a guide for tuning your system. Your numbers will probably be different because every speaker manufacturer is different and each speaker has different thresholds for distortion.
Most woofers will have a max low frequency around 750 hz, more of the higher class speakers and larger ones will go down to around 60hz or so, sometimes less. Personally i think 80hz is to high to have your HPF, i like to hear more bass from my speakers. If your system is coupled with subs thats are on 24/7 when you drive, there is no need for such a low HPF setting.
also, keep in mind, 80hz is the most common crossover setting for a midrange woofer to a woofer or subwoofer. Subs arereally supposed to take care of the really lows and the woofers take care of the in between, but that is more for home audio. Car audio, the midranges xover to the subwoofer.
What i meant by the whole gain thing with lower frequencies is that, the higher the gain you have the faster the lower fequencies will begin to distort in your speakers.
take this scenario for instance. this is completely hypothetical and all these numbers are made up before i get flammed.
You really want your speakers to go down to 60hz. You also want to achieve a volume of 100 out of 100. You have set your gain all the way to max. As you turn up your volume, you begin to hear distortion at volume 50 because the bass is too heavy. You turn your LPF to 70hz instead of 60 hz and you turn your volume up again. This time your volume reaches 60 instead of 50. The reason for this is because your speakers can only produce frequencies efficiently at certain volume levels.
this scenario is based on you trading off low frequency ranges for high gain for a louder stereo system.
What you want to do is decide how loud you want to speakers to be with a certain HPF. If you want a 60hz crossover for your HPF then start your gain at minimum and tun your volume up until it maxes out with distortion, or none at all. If it maxes out with distortion at a low gain, do not increase gain as it will be detrimental. Now with the gain on low, you shouldnt reach distortion when the volume maxes out. Most HU's today only have a certain volume range so you can max it. Increase the gain with the volume on max until you hear speaker distortion. When you reach that point, you have reached the maximum gain setting for your speakers set with a 60hz HPF xover. You want to back the gain off a bit until the there is no distortion. You system is now fully and properly set for 60hz HPF with maximum volume.
Now, if you would like to reach a higher volume then what you have now, you may have to adjust your HPF to a higher frequency. Choose 70hz this time for instance. IF you max out your volume at 70hz you will notice no distortion. Go back and increase your gain again until you hear distortion and back it off as you did before to prevent speaker damage. Your volumke should be higher now due to a trade off of frequency for amplitude (volume).
Now this is a hypothetical situation with figticious numbers. You should use this as a guide for tuning your system. Your numbers will probably be different because every speaker manufacturer is different and each speaker has different thresholds for distortion.
Most woofers will have a max low frequency around 750 hz, more of the higher class speakers and larger ones will go down to around 60hz or so, sometimes less. Personally i think 80hz is to high to have your HPF, i like to hear more bass from my speakers. If your system is coupled with subs thats are on 24/7 when you drive, there is no need for such a low HPF setting.
also, keep in mind, 80hz is the most common crossover setting for a midrange woofer to a woofer or subwoofer. Subs arereally supposed to take care of the really lows and the woofers take care of the in between, but that is more for home audio. Car audio, the midranges xover to the subwoofer.
04-27-2008, 07:30 PM
#11
well all this stuff just makes me confused haha. I don't know anything about hz and all. I have no clue what I listen to. I just know that I never have maxed my stock unit before. I don't plan on maxing this system either. Yeah I listen loud but not that loud ya know? Hard to explain I guess. What is the best hz to start at? 80? 70? What?
04-28-2008, 02:33 PM
#12
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NJ and AZ
Posts: 548
My bad meng.
just install everything and get it all working. After you do that, we can help you tune it. If you are still very lost and feel like taking some time out for a Q and A with me on aim, i have no issue with that and i actually encourage it. It will be easier for you to understand everything.
just install everything and get it all working. After you do that, we can help you tune it. If you are still very lost and feel like taking some time out for a Q and A with me on aim, i have no issue with that and i actually encourage it. It will be easier for you to understand everything.
Last edited by SuBXeRo; 04-28-2008 at 02:38 PM.
04-29-2008, 02:33 PM
#14
ok so I've been reading the manual on the avic for a while trying to figure out wiring. Happy with what I've found so far but still have questions. So far I figured out wiring the avic to the correct wires. Let me know if I'm wrong here...(98 max btw).
Pnk/Blk= battery (constant power)
Blu/Blk= accessory power (12v source)
Red/Blu= Illumination
Red/Org= Dimmer
Blk/Red= antenna power
so I want to make sure those are correct. I can't seem to find if the avic has its own dimmer wire. I think I'm just connecting the illum wire on the avic to to the stock illumination wire and dimming the system through the headunit only. If I don't want my antenna to go up and down anymore can I leave the power antenna wire sealed off? Mine is f'd up and it pisses me off. Rather not have it move.
Next trying to figuer out the amp wiring. Avic manual says that there are seperate rca's for front back and sub. Is that right? I thought there was only one set of rca's usually...
Pnk/Blk= battery (constant power)
Blu/Blk= accessory power (12v source)
Red/Blu= Illumination
Red/Org= Dimmer
Blk/Red= antenna power
so I want to make sure those are correct. I can't seem to find if the avic has its own dimmer wire. I think I'm just connecting the illum wire on the avic to to the stock illumination wire and dimming the system through the headunit only. If I don't want my antenna to go up and down anymore can I leave the power antenna wire sealed off? Mine is f'd up and it pisses me off. Rather not have it move.
Next trying to figuer out the amp wiring. Avic manual says that there are seperate rca's for front back and sub. Is that right? I thought there was only one set of rca's usually...
04-29-2008, 10:25 PM
#15
Yeah, cheap decks will usually only have one set of RCA's for the sub. I didn't see if you were running a 4-channel amp or not. Are you? If you are, you'll use the front and rear outputs, if you're just running a sub, use the 2 sub pre-outs.
04-29-2008, 10:28 PM
#16
I'm running a 5 channel. So three sets of rca's right? That's what the avic manual says. I just need to know some good rca plugs. I was looking at knu konceptz. Seems like people like their stuff. Figured two sets of 2 channel rca's and an amp install kit. Over blown?
Last edited by Cdg2125; 04-29-2008 at 10:36 PM.
04-29-2008, 10:56 PM
#17
Sounds good. Which 5-channel? I've used their 8 gauge kit when i ran a JL 250/1. Which a 5-channel you'll probably either want to run 4 or 1/0 gauge. Depending on how many watts you're running.
04-30-2008, 02:05 PM
#20
i plan on picking up the kollosus 4 channel kit, a 2 channel Karma ss rca, 16 gauge karma ss wiring and just their regular postive battery terminal. How much wire do I need tho? I figured the 13ft rca's to be safe, and 100ft of speaker wire. Good?
04-30-2008, 07:56 PM
#21
as for the rca's i've always used the 17'. the 13' should work though. and as for the speaker wire, i never really measured how much i've used in the past, i've just used scraps here and there. but i think 100ft is way more than enough.
05-01-2008, 08:54 AM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: NJ and AZ
Posts: 548
just wanted to write a blip before i leave for class.
i always buy long RCA's. moving your amp around ur trunk from time to time can **** things up if you dont have a wire thats long enough tbh. i think i sinatlled a 19 footer for my sub preouts and it barely makes it to my amp.
dont short yourself, buy some longer wires, especially since RCA's arent easily adjusted in length. Im a Monster guy, so i always suggest u get the medium or low grade monster. The high grade **** is not worth it at all. Low grade should do you fine.
i always buy long RCA's. moving your amp around ur trunk from time to time can **** things up if you dont have a wire thats long enough tbh. i think i sinatlled a 19 footer for my sub preouts and it barely makes it to my amp.
dont short yourself, buy some longer wires, especially since RCA's arent easily adjusted in length. Im a Monster guy, so i always suggest u get the medium or low grade monster. The high grade **** is not worth it at all. Low grade should do you fine.
05-01-2008, 11:18 AM
#23
ok my next question is where the hell do I run the wires for this stuff? Do I need to pull out the carpet? I figure I need to remove all the seats but what else? I'm trying to look in my car where there is room to run three sets of rca cables and the amp power wire.
also, I might just buy an amp kit and wires and rca's from walmart for now. Sosche brand. Are they really crappy? My roomates buddy used them for his competition audio stuff. Said they were decent. Just cause I would be dropping another $150 for the stuff from knukonceptz.
also, I might just buy an amp kit and wires and rca's from walmart for now. Sosche brand. Are they really crappy? My roomates buddy used them for his competition audio stuff. Said they were decent. Just cause I would be dropping another $150 for the stuff from knukonceptz.
Last edited by Cdg2125; 05-01-2008 at 06:47 PM.
05-01-2008, 08:53 PM
#24
Make sure you run the power and signal wires on the opposite sides of the car. A quick video on crutchfield's help site or even youtube would be good for your first time. But you wanna lift up the plastic door sills. Then you should see an opening. You can run the wires between the carpet and the floor.
When at the firewall, look twice, drill once. But most, if not all year Maxima's will already have an empty grommet. After the wire's been ran, you should lift up the bottom of the seats and run them into the trunk from there. Again, a short video is the best solution for a first timer.
I sell Scosche products, and I wouldn't buy their wire. The sell the stuff at Walmart and places like that, and its not even 4gauge, it's usually 5gauge. If you can't do Knukonceptz, look at Kicker, or maybe even some decent-priced Rockford Fosgate if you can find it.
I look at wiring one way. If you do it right the first time, you'll never have to do it again. Spend a little more for the good stuff, that'll last you 3-4 or 5 installs. Instead of paying for it and re-doing it everytime. Because you will want to upgrade your system. It's natural. You will get used to the volume level, it'll sound normal, and you'll want more and more. Do the wiring right the first time.
When at the firewall, look twice, drill once. But most, if not all year Maxima's will already have an empty grommet. After the wire's been ran, you should lift up the bottom of the seats and run them into the trunk from there. Again, a short video is the best solution for a first timer.
I sell Scosche products, and I wouldn't buy their wire. The sell the stuff at Walmart and places like that, and its not even 4gauge, it's usually 5gauge. If you can't do Knukonceptz, look at Kicker, or maybe even some decent-priced Rockford Fosgate if you can find it.
I look at wiring one way. If you do it right the first time, you'll never have to do it again. Spend a little more for the good stuff, that'll last you 3-4 or 5 installs. Instead of paying for it and re-doing it everytime. Because you will want to upgrade your system. It's natural. You will get used to the volume level, it'll sound normal, and you'll want more and more. Do the wiring right the first time.
05-02-2008, 08:32 AM
#27
http://www.crutchfield.com/learningc...ers_movie.html
http://www.crutchfield.com/learningc...kes_video.html
http://youtube.com/results?search_qu...mp&search_type=
05-02-2008, 11:36 AM
#28
thank you. Placed my order with knu this morning. Hopefully be here early next week.
do i have room to mount my crossovers in the door? Do I need to modify anything or will I have enough room once I take out the bose speaker/amp?
do i have room to mount my crossovers in the door? Do I need to modify anything or will I have enough room once I take out the bose speaker/amp?
Last edited by Cdg2125; 05-02-2008 at 11:53 AM.
05-02-2008, 12:59 PM
#29
I have yet to remove my 01 doors. Someone else should chime in for this. Some do mount their X-overs on an amp rack in the trunk alongside the amp. When done correctly this looks fantastic.
05-02-2008, 04:26 PM
#30
i have a 98 so your doors will be different. We'll see I guess. I don't even know what I'm doing with my amp. i was going to attach it on top of my box but I dont know.
random thought- knukonceptz shipped my package already which is a great. Surprised it was so fast.
random thought- knukonceptz shipped my package already which is a great. Surprised it was so fast.
05-02-2008, 04:47 PM
#31
if its stolen they get the amp too just by cutting wires. box, sub and amp all in one shot? you could mount those in the door pocket, but not really inside the door. subect to moisture for one, which would jeopardize ALOT. stick em in the trunk close to you amp.
05-02-2008, 05:09 PM
#32
never on the box
if its stolen they get the amp too just by cutting wires. box, sub and amp all in one shot? you could mount those in the door pocket, but not really inside the door. subect to moisture for one, which would jeopardize ALOT. stick em in the trunk close to you amp.
if its stolen they get the amp too just by cutting wires. box, sub and amp all in one shot? you could mount those in the door pocket, but not really inside the door. subect to moisture for one, which would jeopardize ALOT. stick em in the trunk close to you amp.
Last edited by Cdg2125; 05-02-2008 at 06:27 PM.
05-02-2008, 09:00 PM
#36
05-06-2008, 06:04 PM
#38
ok new question. Got my stuff from knukonceptz today. One...no idea that the 12 gauge wire was so huge ha. It's not like regular wire like I thought. Much much larger. So how do I got about stripping that? strip the coating then each wire? Should I even use it? I feel like it will cause way too much resistance. Also for my 4 channel amp kit...what colors are what? I have blue, black, white, and red. Do they matter which is which or just connect them how i want?
Last edited by Cdg2125; 05-06-2008 at 06:33 PM.
05-06-2008, 06:40 PM
#39
wow so much to go over. pics might be good for clarification.
i'll cover what i can remember.
12g was super over kill, but yes strip the main jacket then each individual wire. it sound like you got twisted bi-wire correct? i'm a little confused but im assuming the 4 colors you mentioned are identifying the 4 colors of wire twisted. it does not matter what color is what as long as the ends match up (i.e. tweeter + on xover to + terminal on tweeter).
if i am correct in assmuming this is the type of wire you got then you should mount your xovers in the trunk as it keeps moisture away from them. the con is usually more wire to run but if you have the twisted biwire then its not an issue.
rcas will depend on the amp as well as how you are running it. i assume (and think i remember reading) you will be bridging 1/2 & 3/4 to your comps and running the rear fill off the deck. check the owners manual for 3 channel operation. it should explain it.
i'll cover what i can remember.
12g was super over kill, but yes strip the main jacket then each individual wire. it sound like you got twisted bi-wire correct? i'm a little confused but im assuming the 4 colors you mentioned are identifying the 4 colors of wire twisted. it does not matter what color is what as long as the ends match up (i.e. tweeter + on xover to + terminal on tweeter).
if i am correct in assmuming this is the type of wire you got then you should mount your xovers in the trunk as it keeps moisture away from them. the con is usually more wire to run but if you have the twisted biwire then its not an issue.
rcas will depend on the amp as well as how you are running it. i assume (and think i remember reading) you will be bridging 1/2 & 3/4 to your comps and running the rear fill off the deck. check the owners manual for 3 channel operation. it should explain it.
05-06-2008, 06:54 PM
#40
No i'm not running bi-wire. Just regular dual wire. same as the picture but only two wires inside. I didn't realize it was so massive when I bought it. I was thinking of the normal 12 gauge I usually use. Not this huge stuff. I think I may buy regular wire from an audio place or something and sell this stuff. It's way too huge I think. I feel like it would hinder performance.
The rca's are all running off the amp. No power from the headunit. Components and xovers will be off the amp.
The rca's are all running off the amp. No power from the headunit. Components and xovers will be off the amp.