ABS

Does anyone have experience installing ribbon drivers (mid-tweeter) in their car? I am considering the Neo3 or the Neo8 for my 2K2 Maxima. I might install the Neo8 in my A Pillar or the Neo 3 on the dash or in the door. These drivers are supposed to have the sound similar to that of an electrostatic and are comparable to the Raven tweeter. Any input would be appreciated.

Here's a manufacturer link:

Bohlender Graebener Web Site

The drivers can be purchased here (more tech info too):

Parts Express Bohlender Graebener Drivers

Maxstilln

Don't know about their car speakers but their home speakers are killer. I installed a bunch of the 80" and 50"s for home theaters and they sounded sweet, and they handled a ton of power. Not sure how they would react to the acustics of a car envornment thou. I would try to find a local dealer and listen to them in a car to see what you think.

Whitemax

Theonly catch with most ribbons I know of if they need to face the listener to sound well. www.theautophile.com used to sell a 12" long electrostatic but the problem with them was they must be installed vertically. For the price, I say go for it and try them out. If they dont work out, sell them to home speaker DIYers that would be interested in using them.

I actually thought about trying them in my Max as well....

jmax

I thought I responded to this last night? But yeah, they are normally good sounding, but what is normal to you may not be normal to me. So you might want to hear them before you go to the trouble of installing. Also be prepared for a custom crossover set up. Most ribbons are very long and some, like the Raven are quite deep. Also a consideration is how much abuse can they take. The severe temperature and humidity extremes of the automobile keeps a lot of good stuff out. And as Jonathan said, ribbons are notoriously directional. So the aiming is critical.

ABS

These drivers are not very deep, only about .5 inches. The smaller one, the Neo3 is only 3 inches X 2 inches in size. Due to it's small size it might have a better dispersion pattern than a longer driver like the Neo8.

I was considering converting the Neo3 to a monopole and mounting it on the dash just above the small vent for the side windows. I also thought I could build a custom rack for the Neo8 and lay two across the dash, just below the windshield. Some one also suggested that I could install the 8" X 3" Neo8 driver in the A pillar.

Any thoughts or recommendations for the best way to mount either of these drivers? Thanks!

jmax

The problem with the 8 inch long driver in the A-pillar will be that the top of the driver will be significantly closer to your ears than the bottom. This would most likely make a jumble of the phase response and stageing. The distance from the drivers ears to the right and left tweet would be different and have a significant range. Just a guess 24-36 inches left to 40-48 inches right, across the height of the driver. Basically the sound radiating from the top of the driver would reach your ears sooner than the sound radiating from the bottom of the driver.

Also, what will you use as a crossover between the mid and tweet?

ABS

JMax you make some very good points.

I'm not really too sure how the angle of the A Pillar will impact the sound/imaging of the Neo8. I will have to test it out. What I see as a problem with the A Pillar mount is that the driver does not radiate sound very well from its top or its bottom, i.e. in the vertical plane. Instead, the dispersion pattern is extremely good in the horizontal plane with even energy distribution up to at least 10k up to 60 degrees off axis. Given that the direction driver would be facing in the A Pillar is a downward facing angle, it could yield very little sound output to a listener. I have also considered mounting the driver on the doors, lengthwise above the map pockets, on a slight angle toward the center of the car.

Regarding your comments for the distance of the driver from the listener, I agree with you completely. The further away the drivers are mounted from the listener, the better they can create a true left/right image for a good sound stage. I believe this is the primary benefit of using the kick panels for mounting drivers.

I am also considering the Neo3 which is only 3X2 inches on size and offers much better sound distribution in the vertical axis than the Neo8. It's size would make it easier to mount than the Neo8. It has a resonant frequency (Fs) which is better than most neodymium silk dome tweeters and offers an improved response curve above 10k as compared to the Neo8.

Passive X-over design will be critical with any of these drivers. The Neo8 offers pretty good low end extension down to at least 500Hz and could be used with a 12db/octave, 18db/octave or 24db/octave passive x-over to mate it with a low frequency cone driver. Unfortunatley, the Neo8 also has a serious peak in output centered on 12khz. A notch filter will have to be implimented to drop the output in the frequency range of the peak. To complicate matters, my research has shown that placing BG ribbon drivers in an enclosure creates better low end response, but also changes the shape of and shifts the center point for the frequency response peak. This means that X-Over measurements will have to be made in the car after the driver is already installed. The Neo3 will not have the any of the X-over design problems associated with the Neo8 because there are no high frequency peaks to speak of. Instead, this driver can be used down to about 2khz and has an Fs of about 1khz. The Neo3 will require I high order x-over and can be used as a direct replacement for a traditional tweeter.

For low end extension I have considered the Dynaudio 17w75Ext driver since its Qts is VERY high and should give good bass even in the partial free-air environment of the car door. Other options for woofers include one from Morel, one from Focal, a paper driver from Vifa, an Audax Aerogel or Peerless CSX. All of these drivers have a Qts above .55 which means they should perform better in a car door. The Dynaudio has a Qts over .75 which means it should be superior.

Thanks for your comments. Any help you could provide me would really be great before I start buying/installing this stuff.

jmax

It sounds like you have done a lot of research. If you are considering a home driver most of the well known companies will recommend that you use the car audio specific drivers. Because of near field response characteristics. I know that I have emailed Focal, Dynaudio and others in the past they all recommended not useing the version of the drivers for home speakers. Aside from that Dynaudio quite selling speakers for the DIY market about a year ago, so the drivers are difficult to find. The car audio drivers can still be found, www.theautophile.com has excellent prices and Peter is well known for his honesty and accuracy.

A ribbon you did not mention, but is available from Madisound, is the Eton ER-4. Diamond Audio sells their car audio products here in the US and once sold this ribbon for automotive use with the 6 inch hex midbass. If you talk to them now they won't remember this product. I think it was only offered for a few months or something. The price probably made it a non-seller.