http://www.scca-chicago.com/solo/indexes/rtp2006.html

Merry Xmas to STS and bah-humbug to anybody running DSP or GS. You can all thank the MiniCooper's and BMW 3series for ruining the index for many of us next year.

Oh yeah, us morons who are still in GS are racing against the Mini's, and boy do we have an easy hill to climb
Actually you can blame the Mini for wrecking the entire GS class, the last time I ran, I was the ONLY non-Mini in GS, the time before I think there was a Focus.
When I 1st started auto-x about 2 years ago, there were all sorts of cars in the class, along with some Mini's. Me in my max coudl still get into trophy spots in the good ole days, those days are gone. Since the Mini's have such favorable indexes, they are sometimes winning the PAX...that's right a GS winning overall PAX time, and I stupidly still run in that class.

I will admit Mini's are nice, but they are part and parcel auto-x cars. I would like to get one on a road course with at least one long straight or a course like Watkins, I would like to see how it fares against me then.
For the Mini drivers

geez.....

so, let me second the to Minis, even though I rarely run against any in STX/STU.....


by the way, did you all know that next year there is a "Mini-lite" coming out. That's right, it will be a mini, but come from the factory shedding quite a few pounds by using lighter materials, less electric stuff, etc.

...and you think the Minis are bad now???

I'm ganna sound like an idiot but why/what exactly are they ruining?

I am definitely autocrossing next season (first time) so I guess I would be interested in it as well, even though I don't understand what exactly is ruined here. lol

we just hate em because we can't beat em.....

PAX is the handicapping system for trying to compare dislike cars against each other. Each year the factors are adjusted to compensate for overdogs (the most developed and prepared vehicles) vs underdogs (the worst performing vehicles straight from the factory if you will). Often local clubs will give awards and recognition based upon those indexed results in addition to class winners.

By the end of this year many cars (and their great drivers) proved they were better than anticipated a year ago. in the classes the Maxima competes...

GS - massive penalty aimed at the Mini's which are shipping from the factory as a slot car; add race tires and win. 10 of the top 12 winners at Natl's were 2005 Mini S'

STS - slight reward after the '05 overcorrection of the '89 Civic. 11 of the top 14 winners at Topeka this year were not just Civics but '89s which are lighter

STX - very small penalty to reflect continued development of Imprezas, BMW 3xx, and a half dozen other contenders

DSP - solid penalty but maybe still not enough aimed at the BMW 325/328. Like STS this has become a spec class where BMW dominated 86% of the Natl entries. I was considering joining this class for 2006 but then heard about this Tour last March where BrianM outdrove nearly everything except the formula mod cars and shifter karts. That's fast
Brian Matteucci's DSP win

SM - solid penalty here too as everybody is modding and finding ways of making all the cars faster each year no matter the make & model

They not ruining the sport or fun at all - just making it that much more difficult to be really competitive than we already are to begin with.

The only thing I would argue that they DID ruin is GS, it WAS a fun class to run a stock max. I never invested in R-compounds and lightweight rims and was still sometimes in the top 5 (of 15) before the Mini-S invasion.
Don't get me wrong, I still will auto-x, but until I bump out of GS I always have to compare my times to other classes to see how I did. For instance, Irish pointed out that I beat a STi in STU at the event we all went to, that's good. The STi might have had a crappy driver, bad tires...etc..etc...but lots of times the better car doesn't guarantee a faster time. I edged Norm Peterson by a smidge last event as well, he's in STS, but again I can't look at my own class.
Where running GS DID help is in index, ask Josh, he ran in a class higher than he should have and I got him on index time.

The one thing I will say is that the Indexes are done by one person and inevitably there will be errors, but that doesn't deter me from trying.

One thing I didn't realize about the Mini's was the heavy prize money being offered for them. $500 for divisional events and $1000+ for National ones. That resulted in more than a few drivers to jumping into them.

I regularlly see both creators of the current PAX system, and the previous RTP system around the sport. It's an imprfect science and nobody wants to take over such a difficult task.

Tell me about it.. Come run Houston Region sometime with Teucci.

my 240 runs in either DSP or SM.

I ran it in SM last month so I wouldn't have to run against Teucci, who runs DSP.

the bastid just happened to switch to SM and waxed us all since there was nobody registered in DSP that month..
that SOB was setting FTD and said he was barely driving it..
the man and car are both effing insane. if only I could tap into that driving skill!!

The Philly Region SCCA is sponsored by Otto's Mini/BMW dealer....and they have several cars that prospective customers (and others, I think) can drive the courses in...

According to Otto's, they sold something like 10-15 minis to people who had seen them or tried them at events!!

The big, higher power cars like ours will just have to move along on to road courses where we can take 'em

Well, you have to ACT like a prospective customer to drive, I have so far refused to drive one auto-xing, I'll just get pissed off.

Otto's BMW/Mini will give ANYONE a ride along, I rode once or twice in the new 3-series...um...it was fast.
Similar to Miatas.....

I ran DSP in the Max for fun. I normally run my Z32 in ESP. I ended up 13th in Pax for my area and won my class for 05. As for GS we have a local ex-Trans Am / IMSA driver in a Celica GTS (slicks) and he has won Pax at every event I've run with him. We have alot of Minis show but Phil smokes em

Make no mistake, the Celica GTS is actually the better car for auto-x than the Mini, I am pretty sure it has more wins at national too. While I can fit into a Mina there is no way I can fit into a Celica. I'm not that tall either, I used to drive a 82 RX-7, I didn't have any problems there.
I am not in an area where I could EVER be 13th in PAX with a maxima.

I too PAXed well when the STS index was easier. 7th of 147 and 15th of 180 back in '03. And that was w/o coilovers. It's possible in cold weather (ST classes) just rare.

being a new guy i really didn't know Maxs were at all competitive in auto-x, so being an avid auto-x'er i'm thrilled. I'm surprised there aren't more of you in STS, at least budget guys because of the street tire thing.

competitive is all relative to the driver....that said, don't expect to finish top in your class. Too many M3's and Minis out there. It's all about fun, and the look on that STI driver's face when you beat him (even if you lose to all the other STIs). Road racing the maxima has a bit more of a chance against the Minis, at least

I plan on running STX/STU next year if I don't jump up to SM....STS sucks because of the tire/wheel width limit. 225's are just not enough rubber for a car the size of the maxima....245's on 8" wheels bump me up to STX, but I think I can be more competitive there or STU (STU usually has less cars to compete against, hence higher placing).

anybody run in a 3rd gen max?

And the Miatas, because most of them are woefully underpowered for any straights where passing is easiest and usually allowed.

Matt Blehm (Matt93SE), among others....

We'll were gonna find out soon enough if that's true. Yesterday they announced moving the GT-S, SpecV, and VW VR6 all into G stock to help combat the Mini's. 6th Gen Maxima's stay in D stock

Also, a ton of cars (mostly 4cyl) get shifted from G stock down to H stock.
Acura RSX (non-Type-S)
Acura TSX
Honda Civic Si ('99-'00)
Honda Civic Si ('02+)
Hyundai Tiburon 6-cyl ('02+)
Mazda 3 (all)
Nissan 200SX SE-R ('95+)
Pontiac Vibe
Saturn DOHC models
Toyota Matrix (all)

Great, my demise in Gtock is complete, I will HAVE to move out of that class now.
I was hoping to catch a Mini napping at an event, I got one or two at a test and tune but they don't post those times.
At least if I do run in Gstock it won't be just me and the Mini's.

oh man...this makes me want to stay in STS....i think the brake kit is gonna bump me to SM next year

Most brake upgrades are ok in STX unless you're changing the clocking (position) of the calipers.

i was reading the STX rules...i have 2006 rule book PDF if u need it by the way....i was confused about what they said about the attachment points....it says calipers are unrestricted as long as they use the same attachment points...does that mean the relocation brackets can use the same attachment points or the actual caliper

Considering all the allowances in STX I think either mount would be fine and this would only matter at a divisional or above level anyway. Heck, the class allows for any rotor, any caliper, repl drum with disk, dust shield changes, etc.

I just talked to Piper Motorsports, who are going to set me up with some custom SFC's...so I am officially going to be SM myself. Maybe time to reconsider the 245 rubber and go even wider

I've got a pair of Kumho V710's in 265/45/16 unmounted if you want to try fitting sometime. They're good for either autox or track.

i will prolly also be hitting up Matt for hos Stage 2 tiebar assembly....ultimately that will bump me to SM...if i dont i will prolyl try to sneak in STX anyway

actually, the Stage 2 "technically" might push you even higher than SM. My reading of the rulebook says no crossbracing (i.e. only longitudinal or "two-point bracing). The Stage 2 LTB is a 4-point brace IIRC.

...if only I could fit 16's over the 6th gen rotors The 16's would fit the rears, but I'm probably going to go with 4 same-diameter (non-staggered) wheels so as to facilitate rotation...

not entirely sure how much wider than a 245 can fit in the back wheel wells. My 235/50/17 Blizzaks on 35offset 17x8's actually rub a bit on the outer wheel well over compression bumps...I need to do some measurements to see how much room I have to work with on the inside of the wheel (too cold here now!)