2 autocross disasters today...
06-17-2006, 07:15 PM
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2 autocross disasters today...
About 5 org'ers went to the big Autocrossers Inc. event at Ripken stadium (a favorite SCCA venue around here) today...180-car field and a very nice course. Unfortunately, someone didn't pay attention on their walk through, and someone else paid the price. In addition, someone used poor equipment. The result: 3 wrecked cars, 3 ruined days.
In the morning heat, an Integra had a disaster when his front wheel flew off in the middle of a hard turn. Car dropped to the ground, tearing the front fender virtually off....wheel went rolling at high speed acoss the course, hit a curb several hundred feet away, and flew into a field.
The result: Car will need new front fender and door, and probably new rotors and control arms (if not more)
The culprit: Turns out he was using aluminum lug nuts. They WERE torqued to spec, according to the driver (secondhand information). On a hard turn, they all stripped right off. All 4 of them. He was able to bang the fender back in enough to drive home (with 3 lugs on each wheel...). Hope he made it.
NOW....the big show.
The course today had 2-3 cars on at once. Car #1 would be finishing as the 3rd car was starting. As it was setup, the front slalom out of the start gate was a farily quick on (45+mph for the maxima) and made a 180 degree left turnaround at the end...about 100-150 feet from the side of the finish area at the other side of the lot. Well....as we're standing there watching, a black Celica, dropped low and nicely setup (so it seemed) comes HAULING down the straight. I could see about 1/2 way down he coudl NOT make the turn unless he had a miracle suspension setup. As it turned out, he didn't SEE the turn. Flew right through it, probably going close to 60 (WTF was he looking at? No idea).
As luck would have it, a 240SX was decelerating into the finish area (a VERY long finish) after his first run. We watched, as if in slow motion, as the 240 slowed to about 10mph as he approached the end of the finish area toward the grid lane. At the same time, the Celica was hauling right at him. The 240 had no time to do anything evasive...probably didn't see the Celica coming. The celica driver noticed too late that he had missed the turn and slammed on the brakes maybe 30 feet short of the well-marked finish lane. No joy....he plowed right into the side of the 240, at the rear of the front wheel.
Notes:
- nobody was injured, everyone walked away. That's the MOST important point!!
- the Celica's front end was completely destroyed
- because the Celica was so low to the ground, it actually hit the bottom half of the 240's wheel and lower rocker panel, so the 240 didn't take a full body hit. the 240's front right wheel was at about, um....30 degrees POSITIVE camber after it was hit. The whole front of the car was bent (can't see it well int he pics I took). Neither car was driveable.
- the worst part was that both drivers were from out-of-state, IIRC (New York and Delaware....event was in Maryland)...
OF NOTE:
- The Celica was driven, apparently, by a nationally-ranked driver who has run in the nationals before, for what it's worth, and was running in the PRO STS class........that goes to show that no matter how good you are, or how much experience you might have, that accidents can happen. Nobody is immune to it - not me, not you.
- The 240 was driven by a first-time autocrosser on his first run of the day, from what I heard...
THAT SUCKS!!!
The course was setup fine, so no blaming the event organizers, course design, or anyone else. It was pure bad luck + bad timing + one driver who got tunnel vision (that, or mechanical failure?), that's all.
Here's the sad pics:
(rought drawing of what happened)
In the morning heat, an Integra had a disaster when his front wheel flew off in the middle of a hard turn. Car dropped to the ground, tearing the front fender virtually off....wheel went rolling at high speed acoss the course, hit a curb several hundred feet away, and flew into a field.
The result: Car will need new front fender and door, and probably new rotors and control arms (if not more)
The culprit: Turns out he was using aluminum lug nuts. They WERE torqued to spec, according to the driver (secondhand information). On a hard turn, they all stripped right off. All 4 of them. He was able to bang the fender back in enough to drive home (with 3 lugs on each wheel...). Hope he made it.
NOW....the big show.
The course today had 2-3 cars on at once. Car #1 would be finishing as the 3rd car was starting. As it was setup, the front slalom out of the start gate was a farily quick on (45+mph for the maxima) and made a 180 degree left turnaround at the end...about 100-150 feet from the side of the finish area at the other side of the lot. Well....as we're standing there watching, a black Celica, dropped low and nicely setup (so it seemed) comes HAULING down the straight. I could see about 1/2 way down he coudl NOT make the turn unless he had a miracle suspension setup. As it turned out, he didn't SEE the turn. Flew right through it, probably going close to 60 (WTF was he looking at? No idea).
As luck would have it, a 240SX was decelerating into the finish area (a VERY long finish) after his first run. We watched, as if in slow motion, as the 240 slowed to about 10mph as he approached the end of the finish area toward the grid lane. At the same time, the Celica was hauling right at him. The 240 had no time to do anything evasive...probably didn't see the Celica coming. The celica driver noticed too late that he had missed the turn and slammed on the brakes maybe 30 feet short of the well-marked finish lane. No joy....he plowed right into the side of the 240, at the rear of the front wheel.
Notes:
- nobody was injured, everyone walked away. That's the MOST important point!!
- the Celica's front end was completely destroyed
- because the Celica was so low to the ground, it actually hit the bottom half of the 240's wheel and lower rocker panel, so the 240 didn't take a full body hit. the 240's front right wheel was at about, um....30 degrees POSITIVE camber after it was hit. The whole front of the car was bent (can't see it well int he pics I took). Neither car was driveable.
- the worst part was that both drivers were from out-of-state, IIRC (New York and Delaware....event was in Maryland)...
OF NOTE:
- The Celica was driven, apparently, by a nationally-ranked driver who has run in the nationals before, for what it's worth, and was running in the PRO STS class........that goes to show that no matter how good you are, or how much experience you might have, that accidents can happen. Nobody is immune to it - not me, not you.
- The 240 was driven by a first-time autocrosser on his first run of the day, from what I heard...
THAT SUCKS!!!The course was setup fine, so no blaming the event organizers, course design, or anyone else. It was pure bad luck + bad timing + one driver who got tunnel vision (that, or mechanical failure?), that's all.
Here's the sad pics:
(rought drawing of what happened)
06-17-2006, 07:51 PM
#5
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Originally Posted by steven88
damn, must have been a crazy day!!
)
Originally Posted by Brushedpewter
Don't you guys sign a waiver saying if anything happens the track/autocross personell are not responsible and that insurance is voided???
Gabe, that is my mad reconstruction skills in effect, yo!
06-17-2006, 08:33 PM
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wow irish...your brave, the last time we had an accident out by me at an autoX...it was an M3 that hit a pole...and they told us for anyone who is taking photos or video that if we posted it anywhere and they found out, they would ban us for the season (I guess they hate bad publicity)...!
the guy was a newb and lost it on a slalom and hit a poll about 100ft outside of the course...
the guy was a newb and lost it on a slalom and hit a poll about 100ft outside of the course...
06-18-2006, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by michaelnyden
wow irish...your brave, the last time we had an accident out by me at an autoX...it was an M3 that hit a pole...and they told us for anyone who is taking photos or video that if we posted it anywhere and they found out, they would ban us for the season (I guess they hate bad publicity)...!
the guy was a newb and lost it on a slalom and hit a poll about 100ft outside
of the course...
the guy was a newb and lost it on a slalom and hit a poll about 100ft outside
of the course...
Edit: the person was NOT an AI staff member - just some random lady
It doesn't really matter, at least 2 people got the accident itself on video, and neither of those people were even in the event, just friends of drivers.
Originally Posted by DrKlop
Just wondering, how are such accidents handled? Who's paying for the damage, the guy on the Celica? What happens if he refuses to pay; court, police?
06-18-2006, 12:54 PM
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I do hope the celica driver pays for the 240sx car. I don't like these kinds of events because it can get very messy. Especially the fact that insurance doesn't work when you are involved in these events. I'd love to watch but I'm not doing any kind of racing anymore.
06-18-2006, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Brushedpewter
I do hope the celica driver pays for the 240sx car. I don't like these kinds of events because it can get very messy. Especially the fact that insurance doesn't work when you are involved in these events. I'd love to watch but I'm not doing any kind of racing anymore.
06-19-2006, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by irish44j
Yeah, I heard someone say at some point "stop taking pictures" a few minutes after I took mine....I think we've ALL seen the pics of that M3 hitting the pole. In any case, I'm not an Autocrossers, Inc. member and if they want to try to "ban" be....whooptie doo. I'll just register using a different name or something I'm only running 1 other event with them this summer anyhow, that I can think of.
It doesn't really matter, at least 2 people got the accident itself on video, and neither of those people were even in the event, just friends of drivers.
I imagine it will be taken care of "off-the-record." I can't see how he could refuse to pay - the 240 did NOTHING wrong, was going 10mph decelerating into the pit area. Over 600 runs were made that day and NOBODY else missed that turn (a few cut it too short, but none too long), so the Celica has no excuse. Since he's a national-level driver (was Pro class) I assume he'll make things right. He'd never be able to show his face again at an autocross if he tried to screw the 240 guy....
I'm only running 1 other event with them this summer anyhow, that I can think of.It doesn't really matter, at least 2 people got the accident itself on video, and neither of those people were even in the event, just friends of drivers.
I imagine it will be taken care of "off-the-record." I can't see how he could refuse to pay - the 240 did NOTHING wrong, was going 10mph decelerating into the pit area. Over 600 runs were made that day and NOBODY else missed that turn (a few cut it too short, but none too long), so the Celica has no excuse. Since he's a national-level driver (was Pro class) I assume he'll make things right. He'd never be able to show his face again at an autocross if he tried to screw the 240 guy....
Yes there is a liability waiver which indemnifies the lot owners, event officials, and the SCCA and club as a whole against liability. The property damage is between the two car owners to settle, we don't get involved.
<Comment deleted due to incorrect assumption on my part>
06-19-2006, 09:34 AM
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I'd like to say that we didn't add the extra "pointer" cones after this incident. We added them later in the day because a few people were going the wrong way around the gate after they turned left.
The pointer cones I am referencing was the row of about 8-10, directly to the left of the first outside cones in the 180deg turn.
Again these cones were added to the course before the two cars were removed from the course. I will gladly state it again.
I would suggest not make false statements as a representitive of the club. It is probably in yours and the clubs best interest to not make any statements, unless through an attorney. But hey, thats just my opinion. There was a family there with a video camera setup in a position to record the entire incident. Whether they recorded or not, I do not know.
06-19-2006, 09:35 AM
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well I think they told us to not post any pics or vids cause of the bad publicity, they didn't want new comers to be turned off to autoX'ing by a one time accident which is extremely rare...
06-19-2006, 09:49 AM
#16
Originally Posted by teflontb
As a note, those cone were added immediatly following the accident.
The pointer cones I am referencing was the row of about 8-10, directly to the left of the first outside cones in the 180deg turn.
Again these cones were added to the course before the two cars were removed from the course. I will gladly state it again.
The pointer cones I am referencing was the row of about 8-10, directly to the left of the first outside cones in the 180deg turn.
Again these cones were added to the course before the two cars were removed from the course. I will gladly state it again.
Yeah the pointer cones were placed immediately after the accident before any other cars ran, in fact you can see where there are no cones in that turn in the second pic, the cones were placed a little past where the man in the red shirt is standing
06-19-2006, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by teflontb
As a note, those cone were added immediatly following the accident.
The pointer cones I am referencing was the row of about 8-10, directly to the left of the first outside cones in the 180deg turn.
Again these cones were added to the course before the two cars were removed from the course. I will gladly state it again.
I would suggest not make false statements as a representitive of the club. It is probably in yours and the clubs best interest to not make any statements, unless through an attorney. But hey, thats just my opinion. There was a family there with a video camera setup in a position to record the entire incident. Whether they recorded or not, I do not know.
The pointer cones I am referencing was the row of about 8-10, directly to the left of the first outside cones in the 180deg turn.
Again these cones were added to the course before the two cars were removed from the course. I will gladly state it again.
I would suggest not make false statements as a representitive of the club. It is probably in yours and the clubs best interest to not make any statements, unless through an attorney. But hey, thats just my opinion. There was a family there with a video camera setup in a position to record the entire incident. Whether they recorded or not, I do not know.
Relax.
FWIW I've been autocrossing since 1993, and this is the first time this has happened at an event I attended.
06-19-2006, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BigEnos
No false statements here. I'm a member of Maxima.org and I'm just making general statements. In this case, you and I are talking about different cones, that's all.
Relax.
FWIW I've been autocrossing since 1993, and this is the first time this has happened at an event I attended.
Relax.
FWIW I've been autocrossing since 1993, and this is the first time this has happened at an event I attended.
DEFINITELY not a reflection of Autocrossers, Inc - I think the events are well-run and alot of fun (now, if they would ban TEAL HONDA CIVICs I would be happier, haha). **** happens sometimes, on the track, on the street, at the autocross....The only way to avoid it is not to have any cars!
VIDEO- I'm pretty sure that a video was taken. It was not 50 feet away, being filmed by the big family of..um..."southerners" with the loud children and the "plenty of yelling" - they were watching their son (I assume) who had a silver Integra with a big black wing on the back and "red chrome" windshield wipers (I don't recall the car number or class). I'm pretty sure he was filming when it happened right in front of him (I was standing about 5 feet to his left).
06-19-2006, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by teflontb
As a note, those cone were added immediatly following the accident.
The pointer cones I am referencing was the row of about 8-10, directly to the left of the first outside cones in the 180deg turn.
Again these cones were added to the course before the two cars were removed from the course. I will gladly state it again.
I would suggest not make false statements as a representitive of the club. It is probably in yours and the clubs best interest to not make any statements, unless through an attorney. But hey, thats just my opinion. There was a family there with a video camera setup in a position to record the entire incident. Whether they recorded or not, I do not know.
The pointer cones I am referencing was the row of about 8-10, directly to the left of the first outside cones in the 180deg turn.
Again these cones were added to the course before the two cars were removed from the course. I will gladly state it again.
I would suggest not make false statements as a representitive of the club. It is probably in yours and the clubs best interest to not make any statements, unless through an attorney. But hey, thats just my opinion. There was a family there with a video camera setup in a position to record the entire incident. Whether they recorded or not, I do not know.
06-29-2006, 01:05 PM
#23
Originally Posted by irish44j
(except for George's standard 1quart per hour oil leak )
)
or after, for that matter. It doesn't leak, it burns!
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