FLO_BOY

I'm assuming about $30 US, or about $50 Canadian.

FLO_BOY

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

So since OB is either not saying the delivery is not the issue but only the fact that he paid for next day but received 2nd service, let's say we add $30 to the purchase price of the deal. Still good or now is it a crappy deal that he could have got anywhere else?

I'll say this again, because it will come up... I hope OB gets it resolved.

FLO_BOY

Jeff --

That's not the point.
In fact, I think EVERYONE (except yourself) see's this.
Why do you keep harping on the price of the clutch?

You're basically saying that since the price was so
good, you're not allowed to complain. By your logic,
if Ohboiya spent $10000 on that clutch, and paid for next
day and got the part in two days, then he can complain.

...makes no sense.

seriously, think about it!

FLO_BOY

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Because in the big scheme of things, he got a good deal and it was delivered pretty much on time. I know it wasn't delivered exactly on time, but then again for the small price difference what big difference does it make? Especially when OB hasn't said the delivery made any type of difference w/ installation.

What if it was only $1? Still argue?

Yes, if OB paid full retail ie...which is towards $350ish on some sites, then he should be upset. Because excellent service should be built into the that high retail price. I'm not saying he should receive CRAPPY service though(which he did not receive) though

FLO_BOY

BTW Jeff -- what do you consider "resolved"?

Because, if by "resolved" you mean that he gets his money back
for the difference in shipping, then this counters your original
point of "nothing to complain about" and "you shouldn't bash people
who do you favors".

On the one hand, you said that he has nothing to complain about...
but, on the other hand, you said that "I hope OB gets this resolved"...

so, I'm just wondering...
FLO_BOY

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

"ended" one way or another.

How come no one answers my questions?

ohboiya

iTrader: (3)

Wow ... I opened a can of worms.

Thanks for your comment wishing me well ... the reason why I haven't responded as to why one day made a difference is that it doesn't matter.

I paid for that service. I expected it. I didn't get it. UPS said I should get my money back from either them (UPS) or B Z.

If you were me ... and UPS told you that ... would you pass on that?

I repeatedly and quite politely requested B Z to look into the matter and go to bat for me. They assured that it left on the Monday .. great! That means UPS screwed up and UPS should refund my money.

Why then are my e-mails and voice messages not returned?

FLO_BOY

How come YOU didn't answer my question?

And OB answered your question --> the day really didn't matter for
his car...the money on the other hand, that matters...

FLO_BOY

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I'd try to get my money back(diff between 1 day/2 day). But at this point in time, I wouldn't go out of my way to help as long as I saw that sig.

FLO_BOY

Grow up Jeff.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

What would you do???? How about get real?

FLO_BOY

What would I do?

Well, I would FIRST try and resolve quietly...my business is my business.
When things go awry, I would contact other people who have done
business with these guys and see if they have similar issues.

That's REAL! This is how adults do things.
We don't tell people to take their legitimate claim and (essentially) SHOVE IT...like some moderators do here (read: YOU)

FLO_BOY

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Even though someone has a sig stating not to do business w/ you?

I never said shove it. I guess I can say "essentially" that you would pay OB 1 million dollars for his troubles and send him on a paid vacation to Hawaii for his troubles?

I asked for you honest opinion, not something just to support your claim.

I HIGHLY doubt(given your replies here) that you would go out of your way to resolve a dispute AFTER someone is bashing you on a forum.

FLO_BOY

Actually, I WOULD go out of my way to resolve this issue so that
others don't think that this is true...by not helping out, you would
only be justifying OB's claims...also, I KNOW that OB will take that
item off of his sig as soon as this is resolved.

btw -- he didn't slam them, he merely recited what happened to
him...the very fact that you think he slammed them sorta proves that
he was unjustly treated (because you assume it's a slam).

Ofcourse I wouldn't expect a $1mil payment and holiday...but, how
about they refund his entire shipping cost to promote GOOD FAITH and
maybe he'll buy from them again. It's more expensive to get a customer
then it is to retain one.

there's a time for spite -- with friends perhaps -- but a business
cannot stay in business if they operate on spite. This is why I said
"grow up".

FLO_BOY

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Is that a threat or is that blackmail? I forgot which.



A sig stating NOT to business w/ someone is not a slam?



Do you really think people on .org would pay EXTRA to go to the same dealer if someone else had it cheaper? I PERSONALLY have and probably would. But IMHO, I'm in the minority here. Then again, I don't sweat the little stuff either. So again, I'm in the minority.

GDs are not their main business. AGAIN for the 3rd time, what would be the incentive to have another one if profits were minimal and people complained? If someone complains about getting their stuff 1 day late, then what could they expect from others here from a GD?

Try this. Let's assume profits were minimal from the deal. Let's say Yoon gives back ALL $66 dollars. Let's also assume maybe one other person had a problem and was refunded $66. Let's say he only made $100 from it. No one even knows about Yoon's business because he doesn't cater to maximas perse. So what would be the incentive to hold another GD when the chances are he would probably loss $ again? Especially when the loyalaty of .org members suck(not bashing OB here)

Personally I would probably just give him credit(at the store) for the difference inbetween 1 day / 2 day.

FLO_BOY

two things:

1) you agree that OB deserves some retribution -- good for you!
2) people who run a business (and want to keep running the business)
do not give favors to strangers and remove their profit...especially
when they are SO busy that they can't reply promptly to inquiries.

let's close this one...

FLO_BOY

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

1) I never said he DIDN'T deserve anything. I just said for a good deal, give the guy some slack for one day that didn't matter. Even with the extra money paid, it was good deal.
2) Justin was around here for over 3-4 years now. Before maxima.org existed. So he DOES know people here. I said minimal profits(not zero profits) When I said he probably made nothing, it was probably close to nothing.
3) Justin probably saw that some guys needed a deal on some clutches. And since he could get some inventory moving and get some cash flow to his buddy's company, why not?

About customer service and successfull running business. Do you think Microsoft/Ebay/PayPal/NISSAN run sucessfull businesses? Do you think they reply promply to every single customer complaint? And if you agree they don't, should they pack up and not do business?

FLO_BOY

Do I think they are successful? to some degree, sure.
Do I think that they reply promptly to every single customer complaint?
Yes. and "promptly" would be less than one month...considering the
volume they receive...how many inquiries do these guys get a day?

I deal with plenty of customer service departments...Many, if not all,
have a "contract" of sorts that ensures response within a set time period.
If they don't meet that criteria, they fix why.

In fact, most have ATLEAST an automated reply go back to the user
letting them know that the complaint has been logged, and how quickly
one can expect a reply.

When a company has poor customer service, they don't need to pack up
shop -- customers not purchasing from them, and word-of-mouth will
shut them down instead...

FLO_BOY

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Nissan: I guess if you count denying claims and making people pay for work that should be under warranty "prompt customer service" then okay.

Remember the other 10? or so guys had great service. And the very worst service of this GP deal was one day later than expected. Which could very well be ups's fault. Is that "poor" customer service?

FLO_BOY

was just below our noses...

Good Customer Service always wins!

when a company treats their customers well, everyone wins...
EVEN WHEN IT's WITH A GROUP DEAL...

FLO_BOY

FLO_BOY

Right, well, I don't think Nissan is running a successful company,
otherwise, Renault would not have to bail them out. What you mention
above is the exact reason why people may not buy from Nissan again.

You proved my point...thank you!

simply receiving your goods as promised isn't really "GOOD" customer service...
GOOD customer service is when you take action to correct
an error...any type of error.

FLO_BOY

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Ask for a ACT group deal.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

[/b]

Hmm maxima is selling well, Altima is selling well, G35 is selling well, 350z is selling well, are you saying all these folks didn't have Nissans before?

Well you just have proved my point. You just said Nissan ran a sucessfull business(that includes customer service) but yet it's well known that actively deny claims for warranty/service. What errors have they correct despite their successfull significant increases in sales across their brand lines?

FLO_BOY

WHY WHY WHY do you continue with this?
WHY WHY WHY does it bother you that you proved one of my points?

I mean, c'mon Jeff...Nissan DOESN'T reject ALL warranty claims...
Yet, you want to apply this to everyone...it doesn't work that way.

I didn't say Nissan ran a successful business...I said "to some degree"
and I also said if Nissan was running a successful business, then
Renault wouldn't have to bail them out...

Do I think that NONE of these people owned a Nissan before -- ofcourse not!

GEESH...I bet that alot of those return buyers had WONDERFUL experiences
with their previous car -- which is why they went back.

When I said "GOOD" customer service is correcting any type of error, that includes:
-- ensuring the consumer doesn't pick the wrong product.
-- returns
-- exchanges
-- good dissemination of information
-- prompt service

...among other items.

seriously now -- what are you trying to prove?
to me, it seems that you need a "moral" victory and you're trying to save face by proving me wrong somehow.

more then anything, I think it bothers you to be

again, grow up.

FLO_BOY

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Haha. Because it makes my day go faster.

Who is getting owned? No one.

Renault bailed them out yes. But since then Nissan is successful no?

Of couse they don't deny EVERY claim, but then again Justin/Yoon didn't screw everyone on the GD right? And even the worst case, the delivery was one day later than expected?

Nissan lack of errors. One has to admit to the error to correct it right? Does that mean there wasn't an error in the first place?(ie Nissan denying a claim) So the error on Nissan's part is the intial denial of warranty work. Which happens to alot of people here(as stated clearly in the 5th gen forums). How could Nissan be selling all these cars now if it's quite obvious that their customer serive in regards to claims hasn't improved one bit?

BTW. You still in the NW? I'm gonna try to make some meets soon. You should show up. 1st beer(customer service) is on me. If not 21, make it a diet coke(bad customer service)

Oh and to rub it in. I've already stated that I hope OB gets his problem resolved(now 5-6th time). So I don't know where the ownage is coming from. So who is the stubborn one now? hehehehe

FLO_BOY

Fair enough!

You and I know they suck -- does the average person? prolly not.
They might sell them now, but those who feel screwed won't buy again.
Even a mouse in a lab will stop eating the electric cheese -- it knows
to avoid shock, it should avoid that cheese altogether.

By not dealing with issues appropriately, Nissan is continuing to
mortgage its future...it should hold onto what it has now before they
go "out of style" (a la Chrysler mid-90s to now).

Whatever...we know how you REALLY feel about this.
you said you'd give OB credit for the difference in shipping.

The ownage comes from your lack of logic, and everyone
pointing that out to you...

Actually, I was in the NW for the first time last week (Seattle/Vancouver)
I live in the east...and I hope you mean beer, and not bear!

FLO_BOY

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

What??! Us rugged NWsters eat bear like beer! haha.

Wait. Lack of logic? Like what? As a business owner, I might just give him credit because I'm nice. But as a CUSTOMER I probably wouldn't even bother for the small shipping cost differences. Exactly where is the lack of logic in that?

Again if it was $1, would you still complain? You never answered that.

Please don't confuse my courtesy as something else.

ohboiya

iTrader: (3)

Boys ... kiss & make up.

Jeff ... there are two components to why I'm pursuing this. The first I think I've made clear.

1. UPS says that someone owes me money. I'm not going to argue with anyone that tells me I'm owed money.

2. I asked for B Z's help in getting my money back. According to BZ, it's UPS that owes me. But I need their help to get it back. I'm not getting that help. Ultimately, they don't have to help me out. But I would have hoped that some level of customer service would have been offered .. most company's generally do.

I can't imagine why you're questioning my right to pursue this and seek ways of getting my money back.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I never said you shouldn't. But I did say, I probably would go out of my way to assist you as long as you had the sig.

BTW. Can't UPS track down the exact day it was picked up? UPS should have a record of when the pick up was scheduled. I don't know what proof Yoon could provide(other than ups already has) to clear the situation up. It's not like Yoon could just verbally SAY " I scheduled it for xx day". He would have to come up with written proof. Proof that ups should have. UPS customer service sucks too. It seems they are trying to get you to that info on your own vs having ups do the work

ohboiya

iTrader: (3)

Dude ... the UPS website literally says "BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED".

According to UPS .. that doesn't necessarily mean that the package was picked up on that day. It means that the information was electronically transmitted to UPS but a physical pickup may not have occured that day. Now .. the latter part doesn't make any sense because how can this guy be doing business without having a UPS driver pick up every day? Granted Monday, February the 24th may have been a bad day .. but I can't imagine it was that bad.

So given that it is more likely than not that Yoom wasn't lying when he assured me numerous times that it was picked up on the Monday .. I just need them to go to bat for me.

We'll see what happens ... .. this post wasn't what I expected .. I didn't realize maxima.org'ers were so passionate!

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Yes I know when the billing happened.

When ups picks up a package, the driver should scan it into the system asap. Or if someone takes it down to the ups center, it gets scanned at the counter. Shouldn't ups have that infomation?

Do you have the tracking number? If it's in the thread already, I'll look.

Deep six the bashing sig, and I'd probably be more supportive. Don't and I'll just tell you to hash it out with ups. Or hope Yoon/Justin contacts you despite your sig.

Add:
PACKAGE PROGRESS
Date Time Location Activity
25 Feb 2003 21:29 MINNEAPOLIS, MN, US DEPARTURE SCAN
18:37 MINNEAPOLIS, MN, US ARRIVAL SCAN
18:26 MINNEAPOLIS, MN, US DEPARTURE SCAN
17:48 MINNEAPOLIS, MN, US ORIGIN SCAN
24 Feb 2003 15:50 US BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED

What does the information above the billing received mean? From the information inbetween feb 24th billing and the feb 25th departure scan, it looks like ups was processing the package ie.. handling the package. Or am i reading it in the wrong order?
15:50: billing information scan?
17:48: origin scan. On the 24th? If ups didn't have it on 17:48 on the 24th, how did the scan it three times?

justinmc

iTrader: (8)

OK I honestly have not been on this board or seen it for about 3 weeks now.. I was pointed out this thread by a couple of friends... so.. here goes..

Ohboyia....

Me and Yoom have been dealing with this dilligently... Yoom is actually the one handling it. I personally do not work IN the shop I am an outside partner who just happened to decide to give a little something back to the max.org community since I've been on here for about 4 yrs now and feel I have taken alot away from it. Either way.. I'm glad to see that YOU did not jump into this stupid flaming match. I returned a couple of your emails and never got a direct response from you yourself. I believe I had given you my personal phone # at some point. If you need it again I'd be happy to provide it. Yoom had told me he sent you a email or called you and explained what we got out of UPS. Basically UPS (this side of the border) is telling us the package was delayed a day due to customs. Now if they're not telling us the truth I don't know what to say. Frankly I'm not trying to get a bad name out of this or to have the shop get a bad name. This is why I was hesitant to do a GD in the first place.. everyone on here who's done a GD either gets undercut on their prices so bad they can't do buis again or they have something like this occur and then (even if as in this case your not actually attacking me/my shop) other people ASSUME that we're shady, etc. Which IS NOT the case. Either way.. I'm going to talk to Yoom tommorow and if I can't get a resolution I'm satisfied with I WILL PERSONALLY GIVE YOU YOUR $66 back and write it from MY PERSONAL account to get this handled. Yes WE ARE STAND UP.. I am not here to yank anyones chain or steal from them... everyone else involved in the deal got their clutch just fine and didn't have any complaints including a couple of others (such as Jeff) whom I had to do special shipping situations with. So let's get this handled and then I would request that you acknowledge that we indeed took care of you even if UPS jacked both our chains. As I said.. I think the big issue was with the fact that it was going across the border and customs being who they are got their hands on it. So we'll see... I'll send you an email with my personal # so you can call me. Sorry for any confusion.. When you didn't get the response you wanted you should have simply emailed me.. as I've always responded and told you what I knew was happening. I feel bad you thought you needed to bring it to a public forum and damage my shops rep. But you did what you thought you had to do. Again sorry this went so long I haven't been online in a week and not on .org for about 3 weeks.

JUSTIN MCBEE

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

Add:
PACKAGE PROGRESS
Date Time Location Activity
25 Feb 2003 21:29 MINNEAPOLIS, MN, US DEPARTURE SCAN
18:37 MINNEAPOLIS, MN, US ARRIVAL SCAN
18:26 MINNEAPOLIS, MN, US DEPARTURE SCAN
17:48 MINNEAPOLIS, MN, US ORIGIN SCAN
24 Feb 2003 15:50 US BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED


do you understand what any of this stuff means?
Let me explain it to you.

Origin scan: it's where the package enters the UPS facility, and is scanned. whether it's at the customer counter, or pulled off the back of a truck, or when it enters the customs auditing area.

Departure scan: this is fairly self-explanatory. it could possibly be simply going to another hub. some large cities like Dallas have several hubs. (Dallas has one in Dallas, Ft. Worth, Mesquite, and a couple other places. all which do different parts of the operation. anything international goes to the Ft Worth hub.)

So probably why it had two departure scans was that it was leaving one building, or area, and heading to the next part. when it gets there, it gets an arrival scan in the next area.

THEN customs sits on it for a day. it could be that UPS customs dept didn't feel like doing the paperwork immediately (they ARE union, by the way.), or it was missing. it's a common thing for the paperwork to get ripped off a box and stuck in a roller somewhere in the building, not to be found until the end of the day.
the wonderful US government also has regulations where international packages are randomly picked and opened and audited for contents matching the description on the shipping papers. there's nothing you can to about it, it's the law. it's a part of global commerce that none of us has control over.



So customs sits on it for a day for one reason or the other, then it gets shipped out one day late and is delivered the next day.

As you can plainly see from the tracking information above, the shipper obviously did their job and shipped it out when you asked them to, and they shipped it as per the service level you requested.
the reason you did not receive it the next day was due to a delay in customs, which is NOT under Justin's, Yoom's, or even UPS's control. If UPS isn't allowed to release a package due to customs, then it simply sits until it's allowed to move. There's nothing Justin, you, or UPS can do about it, and UPS doesn't guarantee delivery times in cases like this. (read the fine print of their service agreements).

If it makes you feel any better, I paid over $200 to ship a package to Australia Express, and it sat in Californis for a WEEK before customs released it and allowed it to be shipped out. once that was done, it was delivered either one or two days later.



Now the question comes to my mind that you're buying a product that has to come from another country on a schedule that tight, with NO room for leeway?
As I said before, read the fine print in UPS's service agreements, and notice they make no guarantees on next day delivery when it is held by customs. As an international buyer, it's YOUR reqponsibility to check that out thoroughly and make provisions for that.
If you didn't do that, then it's YOUR problem, not Justin's or Yoom's.

I'm not trying to start yet another flame war or anything, but you're attacking a person/business that had no role in the delay of your package, and there's nothing they can or could do about it once it left their hands.

ohboiya

iTrader: (3)

I'm not attacking either Justin or Yoom personally. Please read all my posts. I wanted and expected return voice calls and e-mails which for whatever reason was not happening. I'm glad to see that Justin has e-mailed me personally.

Justin ... when this is resolved .. I will do a 180 degree turn and sing my praises of your pricing.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

What a waste of a thread.


For those tuning in late: don't bother reading this

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

If it's not a personal attack, then why is there a huge banner saying NOT to do business with them in your sig? that's as personal as it can get right there.
His name is also implicated in the title of this thread, yet again you pointing fingers at HIM for being the bad guy.
But all this has been said several times and you don't seem to understand, so I'll quit wasting my time too.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

How come no one acknowledges Justin's/Matt's ups information? Matt WORKS for ups so he should know.

Ups was scanning the package on the 24th. They can't scan it if they didn't have the package on the 24th. Seems fairly clear.

FLO_BOY

You think it seems fairly clear, but too who?
I'll acknowledge it for you

UPS feels that the vendor needs to verify the info
...and that is what OB is asking for -- verification.

that's all.

FLO_BOY

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

You have got to be kidding now Flo.

If you haven't been paying attention, regardless of what OB wants,
the ups tracking information clearly shows UPS has been handling the package on the 24th. ie... had it their hands on the 24th. That means Yoon did his job and had it in ups' facilty on the 24th.

Please explain if Yoon gave the package to ups on the 24th and the tracking info indicates ups had it on the 24th, what more could Yoon do that OB/UPS could not? Explain what Justin/Matt/Me already did?

Here's how it would go.
OB Yoon?
Yoon Yes,
OB Did you ship it on the 24th?
Yoon: Yes. You DID check the tracking numbers and you DO know how to read the tracking information right? UPS DID tell you that it was in customs for a day right? UPS DOES know how to track their own packages once they have them right? You DO know once it's left my facilty on the day it was supposed to, I can't really do much. You have the tracking number.

So even if Yoon and OB did talk. What would it have accomplished? That's right. Nothing.

You fail to realize that it's UPS's fault, not Yoons. What if Yoon said, I feel it's ups that needs to get back to you? Feelings don't mean squat.

Who got owned now?

FLO_BOY

actually, I'm not for sale...in fact, I don't even know why
you would think that you pulled one over on me...

AND you stated that OB deserves credit...

so, if we figured out that it was not Yoon's fault, then he
should have no issue calling UPS and helping his customer retrieve
his money.

end of story.

FLO_BOY