Hi, I own a 2002 Black Maxima...that is my crime. Since day one I have tried to take care of it. Turtle Wax Carwash/Mequiars Cleaner and Wax. Later in the year, I switched to using Klasse AIO and Platinum Ultimate Paint Protection (if you haven't tried it I highly recommend it). PUPP hides a lot.

This summer, I attempted to take care of the light scratches (spider web) and hazing on the paint. I used Mequiars Cleaner/3M Filler and Polish for Dark Cars/Mequiars Polish and then PUPP. Car looked awesome, but after a rain or the next washing the hazing and webs come back. In a small spot I worked it by hand with two coats of the 3M Filler/Polish...nothing. 3M is good at taking out where car doors have opened on my wifes car, but does nothing for the Maxima.

I finally hired a professional to come out next week and detail the car with a high speed rotary. The guy was befuddled at the paint. He kept asking if it was used when I bought it. When I told him I bought it new, he said he could tell it had been well cleaned but could not figure out how the paint got so much hazing and scratches. The doors are the worst because they have holograms. Every car I have ever had has problems with the horizontal surfaces (trunk, hood, roof) but the verticals (doors, sidees, bumpers) usually keep clean and require little attention. He was amazed at all the tiny specs of paint that had come off the bumper and hood. When I first got the car, I had an oak leaf brush across the hood...that was three years ago and the scratches from the leaf are still there!!!

He's going to do some research and see what he should use. Any thoughts? I can post pics if it helps.

 

You need abrasive polishes to get out the swirls and hazing.

What is the exact name of this "3M polish/filler" that you used? It sound like their Swirl Remover for Dark Cars? If so, that's too weak for what you need anyway.

He or you is probably going to have to use something moderate-strength, like a Fine Cut product or equivalent (lots out there...). Maybe something stronger, but do not start off too aggressively.

Also, try to find out how these swirls are being created, or you are wasting your time trying to fix this. Make sure you are washing safely and properly since people usually cause the most damage this way. How are you washing and with what materials?

 

Thanks for the response Bman. Yes, it is 3M Swirl Remover for Dark Cars. The folks over at Autopia said it is mainly a filler.

The detailer thinks it could be from putting one product on top of another without removing the PUPP, but he won't know for sure until he washes it all off (he uses a three stage wash to remove everything including wax/sealers).

From a distance, the car does not look bad just in the right light and upon close inspection. It gets worse as the PUPP wears off. I was washing my car with Turtle Wax Car Wash, the wash that has wax in it. That seemed to leave a film no matter how good I washed the car. I have since switched to Mequiars Car Wash (purple gallon jug). I use a two bucket method. One bucket with soap and one bucket with clean water to rinse the mit before going back for more soap. I use a simulated lambs wool mit. I tried a real wool mit but once it gets wet it was not "puffy" enough to spread the soap. The simulated lambs wool stays puffy and cleans up easy.

 

There is a polish called Einzett, its AMAZING. But, i dont think that he needs such a strong polish. If he goes to the auto parts store, he can get Meguiars Deep Crystal (steps 1 and 2), #7 Mirror Glaze, and #26 Hi tech Yellow Wax. These should get rid of all the swirls. It will take about 4 hours to do all the steps with an orbital buffer.

 

I've got the Mequiars Deep Crystal #1 and #2...they did nothing for my swirls and hazing however I was applying by hand.

 

I don't mean to sound condesending here, but are you preping the car before waxing it?

 

A buffer would most certainly help. Also, you might wanna try a rubbing compund before doing those 2 steps.

 

Describe your prepping process.

 

Yes, I think a compound or even a slightly more abrasive polish would do the trick. I plan on getting a rotary sometime. I'm going to let this guy have a go at it and learn from what he does.

 

I'm sorry, I went back a little too far in the detailing process. lol I meant to say are you glazing the car first before waxing? I believe glazing is similar to polishing. What it does is fill in the fine scratches and swirl marks that are on the paint already. Once you to this, you definately want to apply a wax over top to protect not only the glaze, but also the paint.

If you could post some pictures of what your paint looks like, it might help us to recommend products you could try out.

I am just always concerned about using compounds unless absolutely necessary. You know what I mean? Sometimes it is definately the only way to get results, but if you don't have to use them, then I recommend not to.

I hope I am helping?

 

I wasn't sure how far back in prepping you wanted to go.

Normally:
Wash (Mequiars Wash) and synthetic wool mitt (seperate mitt for tires). Two buckets one with rinse water and one with soap.
Clay front end while washing
Rewash clay off front end
Dry with Chamoise

Waxing:
After wash routine
1)Apply Klasse AIO (cleaner/polish all in one) or Apply Mequiars #1 Cleaner
2)For scratches, apply 3M Swirl Remover for Dark Cars (kind of a glaze/filler) then apply polish.
3)Apply PUPP or Mequiars Yellow Wax. I lean toward PUPP because it gives a far wetter look that lasts about 4 to 6 months (on a black car no less).

So, yes, I definately prep...but maybe not to the degree some of the guys on Autopia.com do with different layers/flavors of NXT or Zaino.

The only thing I can think of is that the washing or cleaning does not remove all the PUPP (perhaps a Dawn wash is needed) and that is causing the hazing. I'll take some pics and post tonight.

 

lol. I think I almost went back to when the car was on the assembly line there. LOL

Well I hope you get this problem fixed man. i have a 96 black I30 and that color is such a B**ch to keep looking perfect. I am thinkin my wife may leave me if I spend any more time polishing, and waxing that thing!

I just thought of something! Try calling or emailing Meguiars. They have a toll free number you can call and ask them anything and they are always more than happy to help. They may be able to get you the fastest answer to this question and may be able to recommend some things that all of us have not thought of yet.????? What do you think?

http://www.meguiars.com/customer_care/index.cfm

Hope this helps

 

SMR is pretty mild, but I'm not sure if I'd call it nothing but filler. Glazes (#7, Deep Crystal 2, etc.) are nothing but fillers.

It's possible that it is from applying one product after another, but usually incompatibility (rare) or smearing usually shows up as a smeary, hazy mess, and isn't confused with scratches or swirls. It could look "hologram-like" though. Sounds like he's going to use AutoInt's ABC system on it... (fine I think).

What brand is the simulated wool mitt and how long have you been using it? I never recommend these to anyone simply because you have no way of knowing if the synthetic fibers will scratch or not until you use it. It's similar reasoning as to why you don't want polyester in your cotton products. "Safe" are real sheepskin, microfiber, and Viking 100% cotton chenille mitts.


A lot of time people have too much faith in the ability of "filling" products to hide scratches and swirls. Filling/hiding has its limits, and usually they fall short of what a person really needs to get rid of the worst (and sometimes most noticable) damage. Using a machine to work in Deep Crystal 1 or 2 isn't going to help much.

I wouldn't go and get a rotary if I were you. For weekend detailing you are better off getting a Porter Cable random orbital, since it has a much lower learning curve and a much wider margin for error. It should meet most of your needs as long as you use the right pads and products.
Some (hopefully) constructive criticism: Use of Klasse AIO or DC #1 is "backwards" actually. These products can't and don't really "clean" in the sense of cleaning dirt. Instead think of them as extremely gentle abrasives. After claying, polish with whatever products you need (fine cut, swirl remover, Einszett sells several polish grades), and then use AIO as prep for UPP or #26. Quite common to use AIO as a base for many products. DC #1 is a bit redundant usually if you have swirl remover and AIO to use. A lot of people seem to like to use Einszett products for hand polishing jobs so if you want to buy something to supplement your SMR you may want to check those out.

Personally I would think about ditching the chamois too. It has the potential to drag dust/dirt over the finish. I'm still trying to narrow down how you're getting the problem...

I usually do not say this, but maybe a picture of the sun's reflection (or something similar) might give us a better idea of what you are looking at, so I'll wait for those.

 

Thanks Doc, that may be worth a shot.

 

Bman,

Agreed,

I hate fillers and would rather fix the problem.

Sorry, I meant orbital buffer...PC specifically. Too much time debating what a PC/ROB/Rotary are.

Not sure why I wrote AIO and then #1. I don't do them in that order. I didn't realize that I should use the 3M Swirl Remover before AIO. That may have caused some of the problem? I'll find out what the name of the mitt is but it is generally available in Pep Boys along side the wool mitts and looks like this . I tried a wool mit and it wouldn't hold water or foam from the soap well at all. Once it was wet it was like washing the car with only the skin underneath the wool as all the wool was matted down...not "puffy" like the synthetic.

I'll post up some pics tonight when I get home.

 

Any time buddy. if you get the answer, please post it so we all know it. I have had similar problems on my black car before with the holigram and of course the swirls. it is a never ending battle against the swirls!! DAMN THEM!!!!!!!