NiSmOVQ35

iTrader: (1)

207WHP and 236WTQ.

WTF is wrong with the car ?
-Fidenza light weight flywheel
-Spec stage 2 clutch
-Cattman gen 3 header
-Cattman Catback
-UDP
-SSIM
-IM spacers
-Intake
-JWT s1 cams
etc.

4th Gear pull did it like 3 times same result. The car also has lightweight 17" wheels etc..DOnt htink that matters though.

THe AFR was constant between 12-14 on the AEM wideband..at WOT till redline.


The check engine light is on/off on the car depending on weather i think . Its a misfire code... the tech said its becasue of the cams. Car does not pull as hard as it use to AT ALL... i have a 3.0 MAF in there... i dont know if thats the problem. (am600 2k3 maf was to expensive)

Stock the car dynoed at about the same power jsut alot less TQ... so i KNOW something is up.

Anything you guys suggest i should check.....
This was on a mustang dyno.

Puppetmaster

iTrader: (48)

Got runfiles?

EDIT: Nevermind just realized you said Mustang dyno. I know those things can be high or low depending on the parameters, but wouldn't expect the differential to be that much between your whp and tq. The tq number is still decent I guess. Hopefully your charts will shed a little light on my the peak whp is so low.

NiSmOVQ35

iTrader: (1)

I got the graph they printed out but dont have a scanner it has some info on it... ill take apicture of it and post up a little later.. Ghetto way.

Im about to sell this fuking car.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Did it start to act up AFTER the cam install? Only thing I can think of is improper cam install. May have jumped time. Do you have access to a compression tester?

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Yeah if it started acting up after the cams, which seems to be what you are trying to say, and it's now throwing a missfire code... I'm going to have to agree with nismology about the improper cam install. There's alot of chances to screw something up while installing cams, especially if they are lined up wrong or even warped from improper torquing.

Are your plugs/coils ok btw?

NiSmOVQ35

iTrader: (1)

No it was "sluggish" even before the cams were installed.

Yes i have a compression tester.. i will check compression this weekend..and will check timing on the car as well and report back.

If the cams were off i believe it would have a constant SES light on ... this one goes away for a couple days and then returns for a couple days etc. Also the car is getting AWFUL Gas milage at WOT... you can see the damn gas needle drop under WOT ..WTF... it was never like this b4... and the AF is steady at like 13ish...

Another thing i noticed is 1ce in a while when i go WOT and then throw the car into neutral the rpms will drop VERY low and the car will shut off. It was doing this ALOT when the weather was colder and the SES light wouldnt go away, now that its warmer the SES light went away and it doesnt do it anymore.

Plugs were just changed... and im doing a resitance test on the coils this week... but they do seem to be ok.....

*** ohhh biggest issue... right after the cams were done there was maybe a CUP full of CLEAN oil in the Intake manifold... i mean i just POURED it out, i changed the PCV and havent checked since i will also check whats up with that this weekend****

SOmetimes i just wish i had a FAST STOCK car.

98MaXeDouT

iTrader: (6)

Don't we all. If I'm around this weekend maybe I'll stop by and see whats up.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

etc?
It doesn't matter if you're using the 3.0 MAF, they're the same thing aside from the IAT. The IAT wont affect power, many members use this MAF with a 3.5. What you should do is transplant the IAT over and possibly get a reflash. You might want to read this: http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....light=stronger
Was this dyno also on the same Mustang dyno? And if so, were the same vehicle parameters used?

98MaXeDouT

iTrader: (6)

what code(s) do you get?

....KS?

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Apparently it's a misfire code.

98MaXeDouT

iTrader: (6)

Ah, I thought he said "I think its a misfire code".

Do you have the EU in?

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

That's what he said, but there was a period in there.

I wonder what etc. means. If he does have EU, he might have fried some coils, BUT, I'd hate to start jumping to conclusions so quickly.

98MaXeDouT

iTrader: (6)

The improper spacing got me.

NiSmOVQ35

iTrader: (1)

It WAS a misfire code but gone now.. car still doesnt pull hard..revs but jsut doesnt really move. No SES light.

THe EU is not in yet.

I dont know it the "parameters" were set right.... but other cars were getting decent numbers.. im ganna try out another dyno just to see whats up soon.

speed racer

iTrader: (10)

Do the compression test first. If you have access do a leak down test as well. In terms of oil in the intake, do you have a catch can? If not you should invest in one.

pimpin02max

iTrader: (6)

Well my Maxima with GAB/H/E/SSIM/SAFC-2 (tuned) only laid down 210whp on a Mustang dyno and my car also does what you were saying about when you give it WOT and then put it in neutral and it dies...maybe there is a common problem here, also my car has no SES lights and seems to be running fine though???

RacerX1320

iTrader: (3)

Finally found a thread where people are experiencing my same issue. It doesnt happen always but if i am WOT then Neutral the rpms drop so low the car turns off. Although it doesnt happen often i have noticed some what of a connection with how many things i am running on at the time. If my headlights, radio, and heat are on the car DOES NOT shut off. If nothing is on the rpms tend to drop so low the car doesnt recover and it shuts off.

Back on topic, i want cams so bad but it seems theres a bit of high risk involved in installing them. Especially the jwt cams on a vq30dek since you have to remove the valve springs.

Y2KevSE

iTrader: (13)

Sounds like a lack of vaccuum caused by the cams. The duration might be too long (or lift too high).

One way of fixing it is to increase timing/fuel at idle and increase idle RPM, but I don't know if you have the ability to do so without a piggyback or standalone ECU.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

The cams themselves are definitely not the problem. They are not that aggressive at all.. 260/260 and ~10.9mm lift.


My guess is the motor jumped time upon initial startup or it wasn't timed correctly in the first place. A compression test that results in unequal bank-to-bank compression will point to this.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Sounds like Phxblu's same problem. Sorta Oldschool

Y2KevSE

iTrader: (13)

Just curious, do you know the effective duration at 1mm (260 looks like advertised duration)? What are the lobe centerlines?

nismology

iTrader: (8)

222.5* @ .050" and 123/112 (advanced 2 degrees relative to stock on the intake side). Not too aggressive at all.

Y2KevSE

iTrader: (13)

Did you mean 123 or 113 on the intake cam? If the stock LC was 119 then advancing the intake by 2* would make it 115.

Sorry, just trying to figure out how the powerband will look by the numbers.

NiSmOVQ35

iTrader: (1)

doing the compression test.. leak down test..opening up the IM ..etc etc ALL today.. also goign to do a Vacuum test.. SES JUST CAME ON !! in time for my to scan and see wtf is up... i will also check timing with the snap-on reader....

Will report back tonight...
-Changing oil..
-Plugs
-Coils
-Putting on Catch can
-a grounding kit
-fixing timing if off... and advancing to 17*

The going to hit the dyno again.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

123/112 is intake/exhaust. Stock is 125/112.


And lobe centerline values are already in crank degrees so there's no need to multiply anything x2.

NiSmOVQ35

iTrader: (1)

ok ... heres what went down .

Did the compression test, The front 3 gave me 130. the rear 3 gave me 150. Everything is ok there.

I changed all the Coils to new coils with under 10k miles, put in Denso iridium plugs, cleaned the IM , oil change etc.

Started her up and then checked the SES light.. it was for Random misfire, campostion senor, IAT, bla bla like 8 codes.

so we cleared them and took the car for a long drive the SES hasnt come on yet.

** now the scary part, on my friend SNAP ON reader... it said the IGNITION TIMING is at -9* .... isnt it supposed to be at +17* ??? i drove the car it pulls nice... but just not as hard as it use to ! it basically doesnt have that little PEP to it...

SO the question is... did my chain jump a tooth during the cam install or what ? since the timign is REAL fuked up it seems.. but the car revs freely ..

nismology

iTrader: (8)

The compression is low regardless of the fact that the cranking pressure is always lower with more aggressive duration. Besides that, the fact that there is such a large variance between the front and rear banks tells me that the motor did indeed jump time. The whacky ignition timing at idle seals the deal. Improper install.

98MaXeDouT

iTrader: (6)

eeeeekk

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

I'm not bandwagining I read 'bout it.

Y2KevSE

iTrader: (13)

Wow, that intake is pretty retarded. I never knew it was that high. Are there cam gears available to move that powerband around?

Are you positive about the degrees? That's how we tweak the LC when adjusting the cam gears on Evos. Advancing 2* would make it 121/112 with LSA of 116.5.

NiSmOVQ35

iTrader: (1)

So now what ? do they cams have to be reinstalled ? or does the timming just have to be redone ? I dont know much about installign cams and how they are done. Im goign back to my installer on monday .. what do i say.. i can tell him i believe he installed the cams wrond becasue.... the compression front and rear have a a large variance and that the timing s SOO off ? where do i start etc ? thanks.

96sleeper

iTrader: (4)

It is pretty easy to mess up the timing chain installation with the vtc's because they spin when you remove them and there are two different timing marks on them for the secondary chains; circles and ovals. The right bank uses the circles and the left bank uses the ovals to line up the chain by and they are on the back side so its hard to see.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Those centerlines assume the intake CVTC system is off. The intake gear can steplessly advance the cam a total of 40* physically (although it doesn't quite get to 40* with the stock ECU map). Kinda like the Evo IX's MIVEC.

When you talk about LC and LSA it's referring to crank degrees. The intake centerline is expressed in degrees ATDC and the exhaust centerline in degrees ABDC.


From what I know cam timing is always expressed in crank degrees by default unless it's explicitely said that cam degrees are being used (e.g. degreeing a cam).

NiSmOVQ35

iTrader: (1)

Thank you. ill explain that to my mechanic and lets see what he says.. so basically i need my timing redone correct ? i dont have to pull the cams out and all.. jsut need my chains taken out and installed again..the right way.

Y2KevSE

iTrader: (13)

I forgot about the CVTC thingy on the VQ35's. hehe


I always thought it was cam degrees:
http://www.hotbikeweb.com/tech/0711_...afts/lobe.html

"As an example, LSA is one of the few occasions where cam specifications are specified in cam degrees instead of crankshaft degrees. Cam degrees are different from crankshaft degrees since the cam turns at half the speed of the crank. This results in twice as many crankshaft degrees for a given number of cam degrees. Additionally, unlike lobe centerline, LSA is ground into a cam and cannot be changed without regrinding the cam."


I always thought the opposite.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

You're right about LSA. It is indeed in cam degrees since the formula is (ILC + ELC) / 2. The division by 2 converts it to cam degrees. But note that the LC's are in crank degrees. Intake LC is in terms of top dead center and exhaust LC is in terms of bottom dead center. These are crankshaft events and as such, crank degrees are appropriate.


Camshaft specifications, by default, are in crankshaft degrees, except in the aforementioned case.

Y2KevSE

iTrader: (13)

Yup, agreed.

l3ftonm3

iTrader: (2)

any updates on this?

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

I'm sure if there was, there would be a post by the starter of this thread.

NiSmOVQ35

iTrader: (1)

no updates Yet, im waiting to get my timing bumped up to the correct 15*... i checked with the snap On scanner and it said it was at -9*... the most i couls bring it up to was 0* made the car feel a bit better and no more check engine light... jsut gatta wait on a freind to hook up him nissan consult to to verify the timing problem.. and see if he can bump it up to oem spec from there.. if not im going to have a do a timing job.. ill have a update next week when i get it done.. and i WILL redyno the car ASAP after that.