RMT Dyno Record... streetz looks small in my rearview :-D
05-29-2008, 10:03 PM
#1
RMT Dyno Record... streetz looks small in my rearview :-D
hahah. Sorry brother I just had to. I'm just finally happy that after at least 3 yrs Im FINALLY passed you on WHP lol.
FYI- I left my thumb drive at home, so no run files til I go back next week. All I have are my 2 printouts of the best run with cutout open, and the other is all else constant except for cutout closed. Runfiles will be available next week.
Power Mods-
3.5 Full engine swap (3.0 ECU and timing equipment)
SSIM with PF TB
Ebay long-tube headers with custom equal-length y-pipe (all wrapped)
Straight pipe (wrapped)
WSP B-pipe (wrapped)
Motostorm UDP
Spec Stg2 clutch
SAFC-2
Oil Catch Can
Greddy Type RS BOV
Turbonetics Deltagate Wastegate
Holset HX35 Turbo
Ubber Ebay IC 28x5.5x2
Custom PVC 3" MAF
RC 440cc Injectors
Walbro 255HP
Fuelab FPR
***************************************OK so I get there, Im at 6psi. Without doing anything, just how it was when I drove there, dyno'd and it made 289whp (dont recall the TQ). I went in aiming for 9psi, and perhaps 320-325whp.... boi was I understating it.
Keep in mind this is a BIG A$S TURBO, that runs 19psi in its stock application. So the more you raise the boost, the more you get into its more efficient range, and thus the better airflow into the engine.
When all was said and done, couplers were blowing; fuel pressure got bumped from 50psi to 65psi because for some reason, even with +20% cor on the AFC, I ws still going dangerously lean; a few faint pinging scares; the fuel tank was 1 quarter lower; boost got raised from 6psi to 9psi (and sometimes it would spike to 10psi just before redline)... but we made it through...
[meximax- remember I sent you a PM saying that for 2008 I was going after your record (at the time it was 428whp dammit, not gonna try the 440 or w/e just yet, LOL)? Well this is my "fair warning" to you my friend!]
EDIT- RUN FILES ARE IN!!!
These 2 graphs are showing the same runs, My best All-Motor run Vs. 9psi Open Cutout Vs. 9psi Closed Cutout. 1 is STD, the 2nd is SAE. If anyone wants the run files I have all the runs in my thumb drive, I'll be home around 2-3am tonite.
STD Correction
SAE Correction
Notice on all runs, my HP and TQ curves all intercept at the same point in the RPM, 5260RPM basically. I dont know how useful that piece of info is, but for all its worth...
s0ber thank you for the help friend!
FYI- I left my thumb drive at home, so no run files til I go back next week. All I have are my 2 printouts of the best run with cutout open, and the other is all else constant except for cutout closed. Runfiles will be available next week.
Power Mods-
3.5 Full engine swap (3.0 ECU and timing equipment)
SSIM with PF TB
Ebay long-tube headers with custom equal-length y-pipe (all wrapped)
Straight pipe (wrapped)
WSP B-pipe (wrapped)
Motostorm UDP
Spec Stg2 clutch
SAFC-2
Oil Catch Can
Greddy Type RS BOV
Turbonetics Deltagate Wastegate
Holset HX35 Turbo
Ubber Ebay IC 28x5.5x2
Custom PVC 3" MAF
RC 440cc Injectors
Walbro 255HP
Fuelab FPR
***************************************
Keep in mind this is a BIG A$S TURBO, that runs 19psi in its stock application. So the more you raise the boost, the more you get into its more efficient range, and thus the better airflow into the engine.
When all was said and done, couplers were blowing; fuel pressure got bumped from 50psi to 65psi because for some reason, even with +20% cor on the AFC, I ws still going dangerously lean; a few faint pinging scares; the fuel tank was 1 quarter lower; boost got raised from 6psi to 9psi (and sometimes it would spike to 10psi just before redline)... but we made it through...
[meximax- remember I sent you a PM saying that for 2008 I was going after your record (at the time it was 428whp dammit, not gonna try the 440 or w/e just yet, LOL)? Well this is my "fair warning" to you my friend!]
EDIT- RUN FILES ARE IN!!!
These 2 graphs are showing the same runs, My best All-Motor run Vs. 9psi Open Cutout Vs. 9psi Closed Cutout. 1 is STD, the 2nd is SAE. If anyone wants the run files I have all the runs in my thumb drive, I'll be home around 2-3am tonite.
STD Correction
SAE Correction
Notice on all runs, my HP and TQ curves all intercept at the same point in the RPM, 5260RPM basically. I dont know how useful that piece of info is, but for all its worth...
s0ber thank you for the help friend!
Last edited by 95BLKMAX; 06-04-2008 at 10:06 AM. Reason: replacing pictures of printout with actual runfiles
05-29-2008, 10:14 PM
#3
Congrats!!! finally you have been able to make more power than your master, now get ready for my turn once again (soon).
good numbers, not diggin the curve too much though, falls off a good amount after it peaks. maybe the z IM will fix that.
btw, just because you put out more power dosnt mean ur faster
good numbers, not diggin the curve too much though, falls off a good amount after it peaks. maybe the z IM will fix that.
btw, just because you put out more power dosnt mean ur faster
05-29-2008, 10:38 PM
#4
Here's the thing. I suspect that I still have an exh leak and or boost leak somewhere. If you look at the open cutout dynograph, it peaks at 5300, then hits a wall. SOMETHING is happening at that rpm. I suspect its a boost leak because ONLY when the cutout was open, we noticed that the boost would hit 8.5-9psi, hold, then right as it got to redline, it was start to creep to 10psi out of no where. If you look at the graph really, that IS a ~400whp dyno! but SOMETHING is holding it back.
Here's the paradox though; the CUTOUT CLOSED dyno, it has a SMOOTH drop off in power. That could easily be attributed to the cam timing on my swap that is known to drop off after 6k anyways. Nothing really stands out in particular there.
Either tomorrow or Sat morning, Im gonna go to a shop and have em weld some of my pipe sections up front to eliminate couplers. Also gonna replace the gaskets bet'n my ypipe and the headers- Im pretty sure those are leaking. If that doesnt do it, I'll be replacing my boost controller- I wont get into details, but it was acting a bit iffy during its adjustments.
Here's the paradox though; the CUTOUT CLOSED dyno, it has a SMOOTH drop off in power. That could easily be attributed to the cam timing on my swap that is known to drop off after 6k anyways. Nothing really stands out in particular there.
Either tomorrow or Sat morning, Im gonna go to a shop and have em weld some of my pipe sections up front to eliminate couplers. Also gonna replace the gaskets bet'n my ypipe and the headers- Im pretty sure those are leaking. If that doesnt do it, I'll be replacing my boost controller- I wont get into details, but it was acting a bit iffy during its adjustments.
05-29-2008, 11:55 PM
#5
Ok, so talked to E55AMG and he schooled me a bit- brought up a good point that I didnt think of prior.
That nasty drop in power on my open cutout dyno could very likely be attributed to the fact that the cutout is dumping basically just 5-6" out of the turbine outlet. In that short of a column, at some point, the airflow simply cannot remain linear/ laminar, and thus starts to create turbulence and spikes of boost (which is funny, because right at the rpm where the power takes a crap, is where the boost suddenly would start to creep into 10psi). This turbulence obviously kills off the power rather abruptly.
This to me holds true because with the cutout closed; yes there is less power, however the flow is maintained linear out the turbo, and therefore there is no ABRUPT plunge in power. The MUFFLER being a restriction is preventing any spikes of boost and thus maintains the power curves nice and smooth (at the expense of power, but hey, its a muffler, its to keep things quiet, for that, it does its job pretty good).
So I guess at some point, perhaps in a few months after Im done with some much needed maintenance, I'll get back into the power department and among other things, re-do the cutout/muffler tubing.
That nasty drop in power on my open cutout dyno could very likely be attributed to the fact that the cutout is dumping basically just 5-6" out of the turbine outlet. In that short of a column, at some point, the airflow simply cannot remain linear/ laminar, and thus starts to create turbulence and spikes of boost (which is funny, because right at the rpm where the power takes a crap, is where the boost suddenly would start to creep into 10psi). This turbulence obviously kills off the power rather abruptly.
This to me holds true because with the cutout closed; yes there is less power, however the flow is maintained linear out the turbo, and therefore there is no ABRUPT plunge in power. The MUFFLER being a restriction is preventing any spikes of boost and thus maintains the power curves nice and smooth (at the expense of power, but hey, its a muffler, its to keep things quiet, for that, it does its job pretty good).
So I guess at some point, perhaps in a few months after Im done with some much needed maintenance, I'll get back into the power department and among other things, re-do the cutout/muffler tubing.
05-30-2008, 12:21 AM
#6
DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH THIS MEMBER - OWES PEOPLE MONEY
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 3,468
How long do you normally have to run it to get the turbo warm enough to make reliable boost? Does it stop building boost after riding for a while on the highway and cooling down or does it stay hot? Were you getting consistent boost on the dyno, as well?
I think the wrapping has helped with MOST of the normal RMT-issues i questioned above, but I'm also thinking that those pipes are likely to burn up quick. I'd hate to have metal flaking off my decaying wrapped headers and into the turbo!
I think the wrapping has helped with MOST of the normal RMT-issues i questioned above, but I'm also thinking that those pipes are likely to burn up quick. I'd hate to have metal flaking off my decaying wrapped headers and into the turbo!
05-30-2008, 05:00 AM
#7
Finally he hit the dyno!!
Number look good. that tip is of concern. Hopefully its just a leak and you can atleast hold your power till redline or drop off post 6k.
I would keep the cut out close. You have more torque on the low end from the start and have a smoother curve.
Making some good power there! Did you guys ever do the show down?
Number look good. that tip is of concern. Hopefully its just a leak and you can atleast hold your power till redline or drop off post 6k.
I would keep the cut out close. You have more torque on the low end from the start and have a smoother curve.
Making some good power there! Did you guys ever do the show down?
05-30-2008, 07:58 AM
#8
How long do you normally have to run it to get the turbo warm enough to make reliable boost? Does it stop building boost after riding for a while on the highway and cooling down or does it stay hot? Were you getting consistent boost on the dyno, as well?
I think the wrapping has helped with MOST of the normal RMT-issues i questioned above, but I'm also thinking that those pipes are likely to burn up quick. I'd hate to have metal flaking off my decaying wrapped headers and into the turbo!
I think the wrapping has helped with MOST of the normal RMT-issues i questioned above, but I'm also thinking that those pipes are likely to burn up quick. I'd hate to have metal flaking off my decaying wrapped headers and into the turbo!
As far as the pipes disintegrating.... really Im not concerned about it. #1 they're all S/S, #2 had i just simply wrapped em, yes they'd rot over time and be gone, but I followed instruction to prevent this, #3 you put a thick layer of DEi silicone paint on the pipe itself to prevent any moisture, THEN you wrap the pipes. Once the pipes are wrapped, you SOAK the wrap with the same silicone paint. This prevents the majority of water from ever penetrating the wrap and making contact with the pipe. Like scotch guarding the wrap in a way, lol.
Finally he hit the dyno!!
Number look good. that tip is of concern. Hopefully its just a leak and you can atleast hold your power till redline or drop off post 6k.
I would keep the cut out close. You have more torque on the low end from the start and have a smoother curve.
Making some good power there! Did you guys ever do the show down?
Number look good. that tip is of concern. Hopefully its just a leak and you can atleast hold your power till redline or drop off post 6k.
I would keep the cut out close. You have more torque on the low end from the start and have a smoother curve.
Making some good power there! Did you guys ever do the show down?
Nah havent had the showdown. The closest 1/4mi track (Moroso) is reconstructing the 1/4mi track section of the complex, so no drag racing there until end of sep, start of oct. It just gives us time to do other mods to raise the bar, lol
But... I still do not see any DRF's in my inbox... nor m AIM acnt. 
05-30-2008, 08:15 AM
#11
Not sure on the amount of airflow, since Holset never really really released to the public any of the compressor maps for their turbos, but I know for sure that they run 19psi stock on the Cummins engines on the dodge duallies.... No idea what the actual amount is but from a turbo this big, its A WHOOOOOLE lot of air
05-30-2008, 08:42 AM
#13
Ok, so talked to E55AMG and he schooled me a bit- brought up a good point that I didnt think of prior.
That drop in power on my open cutout dyno could very likely be attributed to the fact that the cutout is dumping basically just 5-6" out of the turbine outlet. In that short of a column, at some point, the airflow simply cannot remain linear/ laminar, and thus starts to create turbulence and spikes of boost (which is funny, because right at the rpm where the power takes a crap, is where the boost suddenly would start to creep into 10psi). This turbulence obviously kills off the power rather abruptly.
This to me holds true because with the cutout closed; yes there is less power, however the flow is maintained linear out the turbo, and therefore there is no ABRUPT plunge in power. The MUFFLER being a restriction is preventing any spikes of boost and thus maintains the power curves nice and smooth (at the expense of power, but hey, its a muffler, its to keep things quiet, for that, it does its job pretty good).
So I guess at some point, perhaps in a few months after Im done with some much needed maintenance, I'll get back into the power department and among other things, re-do the cutout/muffler tubing.
That drop in power on my open cutout dyno could very likely be attributed to the fact that the cutout is dumping basically just 5-6" out of the turbine outlet. In that short of a column, at some point, the airflow simply cannot remain linear/ laminar, and thus starts to create turbulence and spikes of boost (which is funny, because right at the rpm where the power takes a crap, is where the boost suddenly would start to creep into 10psi). This turbulence obviously kills off the power rather abruptly.
This to me holds true because with the cutout closed; yes there is less power, however the flow is maintained linear out the turbo, and therefore there is no ABRUPT plunge in power. The MUFFLER being a restriction is preventing any spikes of boost and thus maintains the power curves nice and smooth (at the expense of power, but hey, its a muffler, its to keep things quiet, for that, it does its job pretty good).
So I guess at some point, perhaps in a few months after Im done with some much needed maintenance, I'll get back into the power department and among other things, re-do the cutout/muffler tubing.
05-30-2008, 08:57 AM
#15
To me it kinda dosnt make sense about the cutout being too close and causing the drop in power due to the turbulance etc..., I was under the impression that the more free the exhaust outlet on turbo is the better. In my case it is better, if that were true them my HP curve would drop like yours or something like it, my cutout is just as close as yours and i keep almost peak hp all the way to redline, with or without cutout. I think its probably a leak somewhere, or your ssim.
The problem is that I have all this air moving through, then at that RPM where power takes a crap, is right where I start to spike to 10psi. The added air really doesnt flow well out the turbo and chokes it.
I see what you're sayin about the cutout, freer flow more power. But thats up to a point. All that airflow is going to need x amount of length to keep it linear. Otherwise it will at some point create turbulence and choke. In a way it somewhat relates to how on the intake side All Motor, shortest intake pipe MAY NOT be necessarily the best for making power. You have to have x length of piping for optimal airflow at y RPM etc..., all to keep that airflow linear.
Really I think its as simple of a fix as lengthening the dump tube a few inches more. Problem would be finding the room to extend it without me running the pipe into the curb when I park, LOL
05-30-2008, 09:50 AM
#16
but then again, you're not flowing as much airflow as I am (and i dont mean it as a joke or anything Im for real). HP is directly related to CFM into the engine and you at 312 and me at 373, its a big difference. Notice how at the normal cutout closed dyno its perfectly fine.
The problem is that I have all this air moving through, then at that RPM where power takes a crap, is right where I start to spike to 10psi. The added air really doesnt flow well out the turbo and chokes it.
I see what you're sayin about the cutout, freer flow more power. But thats up to a point. All that airflow is going to need x amount of length to keep it linear. Otherwise it will at some point create turbulence and choke. In a way it somewhat relates to how on the intake side All Motor, shortest intake pipe MAY NOT be necessarily the best for making power. You have to have x length of piping for optimal airflow at y RPM etc..., all to keep that airflow linear.
Really I think its as simple of a fix as lengthening the dump tube a few inches more. Problem would be finding the room to extend it without me running the pipe into the curb when I park, LOL
I see what you're sayin about the cutout, freer flow more power. But thats up to a point. All that airflow is going to need x amount of length to keep it linear. Otherwise it will at some point create turbulence and choke. In a way it somewhat relates to how on the intake side All Motor, shortest intake pipe MAY NOT be necessarily the best for making power. You have to have x length of piping for optimal airflow at y RPM etc..., all to keep that airflow linear.
Really I think its as simple of a fix as lengthening the dump tube a few inches more. Problem would be finding the room to extend it without me running the pipe into the curb when I park, LOL
05-30-2008, 11:16 AM
#21
Wow, I was not looking for a 100hp gain from your last dyno
so are you also planning to run bigger injectors or just increasing the fuel psi alittle to correct your lean problem
btw don't forget to test the welds for leaks
so are you also planning to run bigger injectors or just increasing the fuel psi alittle to correct your lean problem
btw don't forget to test the welds for leaks
05-30-2008, 11:27 AM
#22
And yes, soon Im going to be eliminating some couplers and also replacing the gaskets bet'n the headers and the ypipe (IF there are even gaskets there, I dont recall seeing them when the shop put on the ypipe, I just saw alot of silicone, LOL).
As a side note, I am happy to report that the 3"MAF with the A32 sensor is working perfecty fine. Even on that 373whp run, it only saw 78% airflow (mind you that the AFC IS currently running MAF settings 04IN-04OUT.... not bad at all for a Home Depot MAF!)
05-30-2008, 11:29 AM
#23
Try 1/4 and see what it does for AFR.
05-30-2008, 11:37 AM
#24
shouldnt it lean it the he!! out? I dont really want that given that Im already doing +21% at 6000 and up along with 65psi fuel pressure to keep the a/f safe. The injectors are guaranteed to be maxed out with this cutout open. So that's what I need to focus on for now.
Also I think im reaching the limits of the AFC, gonna upgrade to an Emanage Blue soon. I have enough resolution based on RPM, but on throttle its kinda of a biotch to just have the high-lo throttle settings and go in bet'n. I want a table, its alot easier and more accurate. Plus I'll be able to log my a/f on RPM FTW!
Also I think im reaching the limits of the AFC, gonna upgrade to an Emanage Blue soon. I have enough resolution based on RPM, but on throttle its kinda of a biotch to just have the high-lo throttle settings and go in bet'n. I want a table, its alot easier and more accurate. Plus I'll be able to log my a/f on RPM FTW!
05-30-2008, 01:32 PM
#27
Try the setting and see what it does, it even helps part throttle driving be back at normal.
Last edited by NmexMAX; 05-30-2008 at 01:34 PM.
05-30-2008, 01:59 PM
#28
Dude are you serious? It will richen it up. Before I had mine set-at 1/17 (5th gen) I was adding about 27% to get back to normal, after I changed the setting I went to 0% to be back to normal.
Try the setting and see what it does, it even helps part throttle driving be back at normal.
Try the setting and see what it does, it even helps part throttle driving be back at normal.
05-30-2008, 04:27 PM
#31
Oh nah trust me the turbo itself is more than feeding. If you read slowly I mentioned that right where the power starts to take a crap, the boost actually starts to spike to 10psi. Turbo is nowhere close to choking. Keep in mind it runs 19psi stock on the cummins engines. So Im just tickling its wiskers right now
Well at this point its not a matter of electrical tuning mate. Its just the fact I maxed out my injectors, lol. Just before the power takes a crap, I was actually still taking out fuel, by like -5%, then SUDDENLY it goes up to +20%. Didnt matter how much I added with the AFC, only raising FP was adding fuel. 440CC injectors are after all supposed to max out about 370-380WHP, so thats zee problem hea
Well at this point its not a matter of electrical tuning mate. Its just the fact I maxed out my injectors, lol. Just before the power takes a crap, I was actually still taking out fuel, by like -5%, then SUDDENLY it goes up to +20%. Didnt matter how much I added with the AFC, only raising FP was adding fuel. 440CC injectors are after all supposed to max out about 370-380WHP, so thats zee problem hea
05-30-2008, 05:24 PM
#33
but then again, you're not flowing as much airflow as I am (and i dont mean it as a joke or anything Im for real). HP is directly related to CFM into the engine and you at 312 and me at 373, its a big difference. Notice how at the normal cutout closed dyno its perfectly fine.
The problem is that I have all this air moving through, then at that RPM where power takes a crap, is right where I start to spike to 10psi. The added air really doesnt flow well out the turbo and chokes it.
I see what you're sayin about the cutout, freer flow more power. But thats up to a point. All that airflow is going to need x amount of length to keep it linear. Otherwise it will at some point create turbulence and choke. In a way it somewhat relates to how on the intake side All Motor, shortest intake pipe MAY NOT be necessarily the best for making power. You have to have x length of piping for optimal airflow at y RPM etc..., all to keep that airflow linear.
Really I think its as simple of a fix as lengthening the dump tube a few inches more. Problem would be finding the room to extend it without me running the pipe into the curb when I park, LOL
The problem is that I have all this air moving through, then at that RPM where power takes a crap, is right where I start to spike to 10psi. The added air really doesnt flow well out the turbo and chokes it.
I see what you're sayin about the cutout, freer flow more power. But thats up to a point. All that airflow is going to need x amount of length to keep it linear. Otherwise it will at some point create turbulence and choke. In a way it somewhat relates to how on the intake side All Motor, shortest intake pipe MAY NOT be necessarily the best for making power. You have to have x length of piping for optimal airflow at y RPM etc..., all to keep that airflow linear.
Really I think its as simple of a fix as lengthening the dump tube a few inches more. Problem would be finding the room to extend it without me running the pipe into the curb when I park, LOL
05-30-2008, 05:49 PM
#34
Dosnt make sense to me, why would it choke? why would it matter if the air leaving the turbo is linear or not as long as its leaving as fast as possible, its just exhaust thats already being used coming out the turbo into the atmosphere, i would understand if u were talking about feeding the turbo, but leaving the turbo? dosnt make sense to me, so that means adding some backpressure to the turbo outlet is better?
Yeah - maybe a piece of tape across the outlet ?? LOL !!!
well, it helped my laminar airflow... OK, never mind..
...
05-30-2008, 06:58 PM
#35
I will give you props if you manage to break my fwhp, but rest assured that I won't you have that record for long
05-30-2008, 07:05 PM
#36
Dosnt make sense to me, why would it choke? why would it matter if the air leaving the turbo is linear or not as long as its leaving as fast as possible, its just exhaust thats already being used coming out the turbo into the atmosphere, i would understand if u were talking about feeding the turbo, but leaving the turbo? dosnt make sense to me, so that means adding some backpressure to the turbo outlet is better?
LOL! that really did make me laugh Im not exaggerating, LOL
05-30-2008, 07:06 PM
#37
Good number Eddy, but you need to figure out what is happening with that power curve. I am not sure that I entirely buy the whole laminar flow proposition. I see drastic power losses. Spark blow out?
I will give you props if you manage to break my fwhp, but rest assured that I won't you have that record for long
I will give you props if you manage to break my fwhp, but rest assured that I won't you have that record for long
05-30-2008, 08:20 PM
#38
Elementary dear Watson! I mean I always had a drop in power after 6k due to my cam timing, but thats normal. On the closed cutout dyno, its droppin starting from the point where I start adding ubber fuel. That retarded timing in combination with the CAM timing after 6k is no good!... see? I HAVE to get bigger injectors now :-D
the dump tube is a factor in this, its not the whole story though. The injectors maxing out IS the big problem here. Im gonna get on that first and see how it goes.
the dump tube is a factor in this, its not the whole story though. The injectors maxing out IS the big problem here. Im gonna get on that first and see how it goes.
05-30-2008, 11:22 PM
#40
Negative sir. I bez at work. Im gonna have to make a special appearance at once of the regular Maxouts one time. Let me finish off some project I got going on right now for looks, then I'll go there (I may have more power than you guys up in the NW... but ya'lls cars looks A WHOLE LOT cleaner and n sexy than mine, lol. So I got a lil project to help step up to the plate a bit lol)