H.N.I.C.95

This weekend I took a ride in an M5 and I notices that my friend driving was not using the clutch. So i ask him about it and he tells me that if you shift at the right time you don't have to use the clutch with any manual. Has anyone heard of this before?

iwannabmw

iTrader: (3)

Sure, as long as you match the speeds of the input and output shafts on the transmission, by waiting on an upshift, or blipping the throttle on a downshift, it can be done. The clutch is only really needed to get the car moving. Shifting without the clutch is easier on an M5 than the Maxima due to the gearbox design. I could actually shift without the clutch easier on a Honda than the Maxima.

Maxima_Van_WA

I've found that shifting without a clutch on my 3rd gen is relatively easy as well. It just takes a few times of practice, and a firm hand on the shifter, to make sure all goes well.

H.N.I.C.95

22 years old and still learning

2k2kev

this is a joke, right?

it's *possible* to do it, but it's also *possible* to drink drano... that doesn't mean you should. I know I'll get a lot of hate for this, but you should never shift without the clutch. Yeah, yeah, matching RPM and all that crap. It will lead to premature clutch/tranny failure and we all know premature *anything* is not a good thing.

NickStam

iTrader: (3)

i guess it's a cool trick, but what if u mess up a bunch fo times

njmaxseltd

iTrader: (19)

I've been shifting my Yamaha with no clutch for 51K miles. No problems with the gear box yet. And thats high miles for a bike.

It's actually easy to do. Try this on the 3rd to 4th shift, it's the easiest one to do.

Ease off the gas and gently pull the shifter out of say... 3rd gear and pull it right down to where 4th gear is keeping light but constant pressure on the shifter. As your RPM's drop your syncros will match up with 4th gear the shifter will pop right into gear.

blizz20oma

iTrader: (1)

I've always heard that in most cars, the window of opportunity to be able to match perfectly to attain a clutchless shift is very small.

What are the fruits gained if you make the shift correctly? Well...maybe you impress a passenger, and save one pump on the clutch pedal.

What are the negative consequences if you miss?
I don't think our trannies really care for excessive metal shavings.

pezking4

I'd like to know this as well. I've done clutchless shifting on my old car just for the sake of trying it, but I didn't really see the point to it. I didn't even have a tach on my escort station wagon so I just had to wait till it sounded high in rpm and shift. If you're lucky enough to have a max with 3 pedals why not use them? There are just better ways of showing your skills than shifting with your foot still on the floor IMO

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

on any 4th 5spd maxima you can shift from 2nd to 3rd without using the clutch.. at 3000 rpms.. get off the gas and just quickly shift from 2nd to 3rd without hesitation

2k2kev

that's the question... why??? You *can* wait until the last second and brake 60-0 in 127 feet... You *can* start the car in 3rd gear... You *can* jump start the car by rolling downhill and popping the clutch rather than using the key/starter.

Yeah some people have been doing it for thousands of miles and never had a problem. Good for them. Other people I'll bet would try it and burn through some metal in the first 6 months.

Shifting without the clutch doesn't get you anything except the likelihood of more problems down the road. So the question is, why would you do any of those things?

95emeraldgxe

looking forward to trying it in a rental car

deezo

iTrader: (3)

yup. Truckers do this to save their clutches.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

Clutchless shifting is only for show. There are no benefits of doing this other than to impress your passengers. It takes longer to do, and wears the syncros and shift forks more so than normal. Parts INSIDE the transmission should be the last ones you want to wear out.

Some vehicles are far easier to do this than others. My '98 Maxima was one of the more difficult ones so I rarely ever tried it. But I used to so it all the time in my SE-R and the Nissan trucks I have had.

Anachronism

It is more to save the effort of constantly pushing the clutch in, with 10 speeds there is a lot of shifting and the clutch is friggin heavy. Shifting without the clutch is easier in a truck and if done correctly smoother. (If it has four wheels it is a car) Trucks don't have syncros so it is necessary to vary the engine speed to match input and output shaft speeds. A truck has a much narrower RPM range that it operates in which probably helps making shifting without the clutch easier. Redline is around 1800 RPM and it's 'only' making about 1500 lbs of torque at this point. A truck transmission is also a lot beefier and usually it's not yours .

In a car I don't see the point, missing your shift is sure to cause serious wear or damage. The syncros are there for a reason, use them.

deezo

iTrader: (3)

In a car, yes. In over the road trucks, no.

Dev

iTrader: (5)

you said it bro

Anachronism

Also in a truck all the gears are evenly spaced so if you shift out at the same RPM every time you know exactly what RPM you have to be at for the next gear. Since the usable power band for a truck is so small you are usually shifting out at 'redline'. So if you ran up to 1800 RPM and upshifted you would go into the next gear at 1400 RPM no mater what shift you were making. To downshift if you came out of gear at 1400 RPM you would just raise the RPMs to 1800 then slide into the next gear. (different trucks have different spreads on the gears but all the gears in a truck are the same.)

To downshift a truck with the clutch you would have to --
Press clutch
slide shifter to neutral
release clutch
raise rpms to 1800 (or whatever)
press clutch again
hold rpm at 1800
slide lever into gear
release clutch

Without the clutch is the same procedure, except to slide the lever out of gear you have to adjust the throttle to 'unload' the gears. Not using the clutch saves a lot of steps.

Compared to a car --
press clutch
slide lever to next gear
release clutch

Frezny

No it won't. Not doing it correctly will. I did it for 5 years in my 83 accord on it's original clutch and never had a problem. I know that my experience isn't the yardstick of succeful measurement, but at certain rpms, the clutch will easily slip out and back into another gear. In fact, to grind the gears, you need to really push hard.

why? Well, when I'm not in a hurry, I don't like to be bothered stepping on the clutch. Call it being lazy, but I don't damage anything and my clutch will last longer. That's why.

2kSeattleMax

I think speed shifting is not all that smart. I would never do it. I really wouldn't do it if I had an M5.

H.N.I.C.95

I guess if you have the money like him you don't have to worry

2kSeattleMax

You know what they say about a fool and his money?

Porcupine

I do it often, but only when accelerating leisurely and the car basically "falls" into gear at the right engine speed. I also did it on my 240Z(RIP) and 280Turbo, plus some Fords without any problems. A mechanic I know of hardly used the clutch on his Nissan truck and was still on the original clutch at 250k with no problems. All that said, I can't really argue with the points made by those saying you should always use your clutch. Considering the tranny problems with the Maxs, I'm working on getting out of this habit.

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

i only do it to impress the ladies

me: question.. do you need to use the clutch to shift?

A)
her: of course you do..
me: oh yeah.. watch this

B)
her: no.. my ex bf or my brother or my father, or my dad showed me already..
me: oh

blizz20oma

iTrader: (1)

Sprint - bah...we know you go after the easily-impressed ladies that are just in wonderment over the concept of a stick shift in general, much less clutchless shifting

Frezny

If it actually caused tranny problems to do it correctly, I could understand this statement. But, you come off as being someone who has done it for multiple platforms and truly understands that the gears will disengage at one rpm range and reengage at another without damage. It's a simple mechanical process for which the clutch only adds a longer window of opportunity.

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

Why badger people about it? it CAN be done. It CAN be done correctly. It CAN be done incorrectly. It CAN blow the tranny. so can missing a shift, so can letting your foot slip off the clutch because your shoes are wet from the rain. s*** happens, and if someone is willing to risk FUBARing their car up because they want to do a clutchless shift, then let them. it's not your car they're driving, so get over it.

thank you, drive through please.

Maximus97SE

Maybe you should try buying a car with auto trans???

2k2kev

I guess 'A**hole moderator' says it all.

I'm the kind who, if I saw someone jabbing a stick in his eye, wouldn't tell him not to, but I'd sure ask why he's doing it. Shifting without the clutch is along those very lines. If someone wants to clutchless shift, let them. I'd just like to know why. The only reason can be "that it's cool" and if that's their reason, have fun.

Oh, and ... boy, that put the "DUH" back in "moduhrator", huh? Of the responses of people who do it, only a handful have given any reason... that's all I was looking for.

guitaraus

I do it in my DA all the time on the highway...usually on the trips to and from college, on the long highway, just because i usually have my left foot up on the dash. If i wanna pass somebody, I'll just blip the throttle and slip it into fourth, then back to fifth when I'm done...no need to bring my left foot into things.

Porcupine

Nicely explained. Like you said, the clutch just expands the shifting window, but right now, my thinking (right or wrong) is that I am little worried about the durability of my tranny so I just see it as being a little cautious. If I clutchless shift "all the time", I will probably not "do it correctly" a little more often then something (wet shoe slips off clutch, etc.) will happen if I use the clutch. Mercifully, I don't hold my breath hoping the tranny lasts another day like I did driving a Saab.

iwannabmw

iTrader: (3)

Being "cool" is not the only reason. 9 times out of 10, I use the clutch, because it much faster and I take advantage of the larger "window of opportunity" as others have said. When I shift without the clutch, I'm in slow rush hour traffic on the interstate. I'm not going any where fast and I'm lazy, so if I can shift without the clutch and not hurt anything, why not?

2M0A0X2

okay, so this is what you do??

you give it a little gas, then let go

and then shift right away with no hesitation?

and then that's all??

SamMan23

It's really easy on the 2002 6-speed when driving it hard. You have to be quick though. The dealer salesman showed me.

lophix

iTrader: (3)

umm...i haven't heard fo this before...:currently in utter shock and amazement:

see5

If you get it exactly right no problem. If you get it a bit wrong, cumulative damage. Why do you think car makers spend money on all that clutch gear?

2M0A0X2

ANSWER MY QUESTION I WANNA KNOW!!!

lophix

iTrader: (3)

as much as this scares me, i wanna try it!!

iwannabmw

iTrader: (3)

Basically, yes. When you put pressure on the lever after lifting off the gas, you'll feel when the transmission ready to shift. It helps if you know what rpm the car will go to in the next gear, that's the time that you have to complete the shift. Get below that and the shift won't happen.

ILoveMyMax

i never shift with a clutch...auto