Hyper Ground System UPDATE GAINS!!!!!
07-30-2002, 05:39 PM
#41
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,493
Originally posted by eric93SE
Dude useing better wire will increase the voltage, not the other way around. I think you are a little confused with Ohms Law.
Again your not on the ball, when you say intensity I assume you mean current (amperage). So by reducing the resistance in the wire it will allow more current to flow, so there would be less of a voltage drop due to the resistive heating in the wire. More wire equals more charge carriers.
Wow
I cannot believe that there arent any other org members that wanted to correct him.
Dude useing better wire will increase the voltage, not the other way around. I think you are a little confused with Ohms Law.
Again your not on the ball, when you say intensity I assume you mean current (amperage). So by reducing the resistance in the wire it will allow more current to flow, so there would be less of a voltage drop due to the resistive heating in the wire. More wire equals more charge carriers.
Wow
I cannot believe that there arent any other org members that wanted to correct him.
07-30-2002, 05:50 PM
#42
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,275
More info...
Originally posted by Kevin Wong
Well, it's been 4 years since my AP Physics class. I thought the Voltage equals intensity times resistance. The product claims to "get the lowest impedance (resistance)." I thought by doing so you would either decrease voltage if the current is held constant. Now that I think about it, I think this product increases current since the kit has better conducting and thicker wires. By doing so, the resistance would drop. I guess I was just going by what the box said...didn't really think much into it. I'm just glad with my gains.
Well, it's been 4 years since my AP Physics class. I thought the Voltage equals intensity times resistance. The product claims to "get the lowest impedance (resistance)." I thought by doing so you would either decrease voltage if the current is held constant. Now that I think about it, I think this product increases current since the kit has better conducting and thicker wires. By doing so, the resistance would drop. I guess I was just going by what the box said...didn't really think much into it. I'm just glad with my gains.
So... Is this ready made bolt on mod or do you have to custom make a set of wires and have them installed? It also seems like this will work on any Gen not just 4th! Let us know...
Deac
07-30-2002, 06:11 PM
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 154
I really like this thread.
Arospeed has a similar product that makes similar claims. There isnt much info on there site about it. They offer it in at least 3 colors(blue,yellow, and red) and I think the MSRP is around $90. It really looks more like an engine dress up kit. Actually, that where a website selling it lists it under.
For the same or less money, one could buy a high quality battery terminal, distibution block, the wire ends, and the wire to run it. I believe there are even some brand name shielded ones for a decent price.
So, my 3 questions would be:
1)If this is legit (which it seems to be), why hasnt anyone else caught on to such an easy and benificial mod(other than Japan)?
2)How much difference can there be between a homemade style kit made with high-end audio quality cables, and this one?
3)Why stop there? If the general thought is to decrease resistance, why dont you reinforce the positive side of the battery too?
Just my .02
Danielsan
Arospeed has a similar product that makes similar claims. There isnt much info on there site about it. They offer it in at least 3 colors(blue,yellow, and red) and I think the MSRP is around $90. It really looks more like an engine dress up kit. Actually, that where a website selling it lists it under.
For the same or less money, one could buy a high quality battery terminal, distibution block, the wire ends, and the wire to run it. I believe there are even some brand name shielded ones for a decent price.
So, my 3 questions would be:
1)If this is legit (which it seems to be), why hasnt anyone else caught on to such an easy and benificial mod(other than Japan)?
2)How much difference can there be between a homemade style kit made with high-end audio quality cables, and this one?
3)Why stop there? If the general thought is to decrease resistance, why dont you reinforce the positive side of the battery too?
Just my .02
Danielsan
07-30-2002, 06:13 PM
#44
Originally posted by Kevin Wong
Now that I think about it, I think this product increases current since the kit has better conducting and thicker wires. By doing so, the resistance would drop. I guess I was just going by what the box said...didn't really think much into it. I'm just glad with my gains.
Now that I think about it, I think this product increases current since the kit has better conducting and thicker wires. By doing so, the resistance would drop. I guess I was just going by what the box said...didn't really think much into it. I'm just glad with my gains.
07-30-2002, 06:44 PM
#45
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
I'm very interested in making an ooglie version of this for my 2k1 and see if it does anything at all. if anyone could tell me where all the ground points are or point me to a map or something i'd appreciate it. and would expensive speaker wire (ie Monster) be needed or could i just get cheap thick ones?
07-30-2002, 07:00 PM
#46
Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 139
Originally posted by Kevin Wong Well, it's been 4 years since my AP Physics class. I thought the Voltage equals intensity times resistance. The product claims to "get the lowest impedance (resistance)." I thought by doing so you would either decrease voltage if the current is held constant. Now that I think about it, I think this product increases current since the kit has better conducting and thicker wires. By doing so, the resistance would drop. I guess I was just going by what the box said...didn't really think much into it. I'm just glad with my gains.
Now remember that Voltage is merely a measure of potential difference between two points. If you drop the resistance of the wire and keep the current the same then the potential difference from one end of the wire to the other is lower (the Voltage across the wire drops). Now the ground wire is only one piece of the whole circuit of the engine. The net potential across the whole system remains the same so if the potential across the wire is dropped then subsequently the potential across another part of the engine must rise. In this case we are hoping it is the potential across the gap of the sparkplug. By increasing the potential across the spark gap you get a more powerful spark and better ignition of the fuel. Of course this is just the theory. Does it work in practice...? I guess that's what we're trying to answer here.
07-30-2002, 08:20 PM
#47
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Originally posted by Myrv
Current = Volts / Resistance or I = V/R
Now remember that Voltage is merely a measure of potential difference between two points. If you drop the resistance of the wire and keep the current the same then the potential difference from one end of the wire to the other is lower (the Voltage across the wire drops). Now the ground wire is only one piece of the whole circuit of the engine. The net potential across the whole system remains the same so if the potential across the wire is dropped then subsequently the potential across another part of the engine must rise. In this case we are hoping it is the potential across the gap of the sparkplug. By increasing the potential across the spark gap you get a more powerful spark and better ignition of the fuel. Of course this is just the theory. Does it work in practice...? I guess that's what we're trying to answer here.
Current = Volts / Resistance or I = V/R
Now remember that Voltage is merely a measure of potential difference between two points. If you drop the resistance of the wire and keep the current the same then the potential difference from one end of the wire to the other is lower (the Voltage across the wire drops). Now the ground wire is only one piece of the whole circuit of the engine. The net potential across the whole system remains the same so if the potential across the wire is dropped then subsequently the potential across another part of the engine must rise. In this case we are hoping it is the potential across the gap of the sparkplug. By increasing the potential across the spark gap you get a more powerful spark and better ignition of the fuel. Of course this is just the theory. Does it work in practice...? I guess that's what we're trying to answer here.
so these work by providing a stronger, better spark? so if i grounded like 15 0ga wires, i'd gain like 100hp?
but seriously, if thats the theory, then it seems you would gain more with the number or gauge of wires up to a point, i wonder what that point is,....
07-30-2002, 08:40 PM
#48
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Posts: n/a
The point of this kit is to remove stored-up charge from various points on the engine and/or chassis due to insufficient grounding. As the factory wires and wiring connectors degrade and oxidize, they will become less effective at providing a true ground. What ends up happening is that a lot of these sensitive sensors on the engine, which depend heavily on the ground signal to provide an accurate signal to the ECU end up providing incorrect signals due to poor ground. What is supposed to be ground ends up actually being 0.2 V or whatever and either drops the signal intensity to the ECU or otherwise fouls it up. From my experience in industrial equipment, ground loops are absolute induce a multitude of frustrating symptoms on any system with sensors and sensitive sensors. The same can be said for cars. All this kit is simple doing is giving the engine/chassis a true ground and killing any ground loops. You can't add "more ground" once a good ground has already been established. It strikes me that 5 or whatever 8-or-lower AWG wire is more than sufficient to do the trick. What's most critical I would think is what happens to the grounding points over time (degradation), just like the stock ground wires. Seems to me that to do the job right you'd want to use conductive anti-oxidizing grease at all connection points to ensure long-lasting results.
Originally posted by Ironlord
so these work by providing a stronger, better spark? so if i grounded like 15 0ga wires, i'd gain like 100hp?
but seriously, if thats the theory, then it seems you would gain more with the number or gauge of wires up to a point, i wonder what that point is,....
so these work by providing a stronger, better spark? so if i grounded like 15 0ga wires, i'd gain like 100hp?
but seriously, if thats the theory, then it seems you would gain more with the number or gauge of wires up to a point, i wonder what that point is,....
07-30-2002, 10:06 PM
#49
Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 139
Originally posted by Keven97SE
What ends up happening is that a lot of these sensitive sensors on the engine, which depend heavily on the ground signal to provide an accurate signal to the ECU end up providing incorrect signals due to poor ground. What is supposed to be ground ends up actually being 0.2 V or whatever and either drops the signal intensity to the ECU or otherwise fouls it up.
What ends up happening is that a lot of these sensitive sensors on the engine, which depend heavily on the ground signal to provide an accurate signal to the ECU end up providing incorrect signals due to poor ground. What is supposed to be ground ends up actually being 0.2 V or whatever and either drops the signal intensity to the ECU or otherwise fouls it up.
07-31-2002, 08:24 AM
#50
Originally posted by Myrv
Current = Volts / Resistance or I = V/R
Now remember that Voltage is merely a measure of potential difference between two points. If you drop the resistance of the wire and keep the current the same then the potential difference from one end of the wire to the other is lower (the Voltage across the wire drops). Now the ground wire is only one piece of the whole circuit of the engine. The net potential across the whole system remains the same so if the potential across the wire is dropped then subsequently the potential across another part of the engine must rise. In this case we are hoping it is the potential across the gap of the sparkplug. By increasing the potential across the spark gap you get a more powerful spark and better ignition of the fuel. Of course this is just the theory. Does it work in practice...? I guess that's what we're trying to answer here.
Current = Volts / Resistance or I = V/R
Now remember that Voltage is merely a measure of potential difference between two points. If you drop the resistance of the wire and keep the current the same then the potential difference from one end of the wire to the other is lower (the Voltage across the wire drops). Now the ground wire is only one piece of the whole circuit of the engine. The net potential across the whole system remains the same so if the potential across the wire is dropped then subsequently the potential across another part of the engine must rise. In this case we are hoping it is the potential across the gap of the sparkplug. By increasing the potential across the spark gap you get a more powerful spark and better ignition of the fuel. Of course this is just the theory. Does it work in practice...? I guess that's what we're trying to answer here.
The fact that they are just piggy backing the wires is not optimal, b/c the fact that the contacts need to be cleaned at both ends. Then a thin coating of dielectric grease can be applied to all of the contact surface to prevent future oxidation.
BTW I am a research engineer.
07-31-2002, 10:58 AM
#52
Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 139
Originally posted by eric93SE
dude, you are not catching whats happening. You cannot look at ohms law and think its that simple.
dude, you are not catching whats happening. You cannot look at ohms law and think its that simple.
The current DOES change because there is now less resistance in the wire (and just as important or even more, is the contact resistance from where the connections are made) and the full battery voltage (14.4V) can be utilized by the sensors and ignition system in the car.
Maybe a slightly more detailed example will help. Lets assume we have simple circuIt with one voltage source and two resistors:
Code:
+----- V -----+
| |
| |
+-/\/\---/\/\-+
R1 R2
Now lets say R2 is the grounding strap and R1 is the rest of the engine.
Total Resistane is R = R1 + R2
Total Current is I = V/R = V/(R1+R2)
Voltage across R1 is V1 = I * R1
Voltage across R2 is V2 = I * R2
So lets look at V2,
V2= I * R2 = V/(R1+R2) * R2
Now lets throw in some arbitrary numbers (and yes I know they are not realistic but they are simple to work with):
V = 12 volts
R1 = 60 ohms
R2 = 60 ohms
V2 = 12/(60+60)*60 = 6 V
Now lets drop the resistance of R2 (aka the ground strip) to 30 ohms.
V2 = 12/(60+30)*30 = 4 V
The voltage across the wire has dropped, imagine that.
Of course this is all ignoring the issue of possible ground loops which I admit I erroneously discounted in my original posts because I thought the sensors would have had closed grounds.
BTW I am a research engineer.
a Masters in Physics
a Degree in Honours Physics
a Degree in Computer Science (from the University of Waterloo, perhaps the topmost rated CS school in the world).
and I am currently a Systems Designer.
Maybe I win, maybe I don't. I don't care. What I do know though is I sure as hell am qualified to use ohm's law.
07-31-2002, 11:10 AM
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 154
Originally posted by Myrv
a Masters in Physics
a Degree in Honours Physics
a Degree in Computer Science
a Masters in Physics
a Degree in Honours Physics
a Degree in Computer Science
I just drive a Maxima and want it to run better, didn't expect to get a lesson in Ohm's Law! Keep it up!
I still would like to know if increasing the quality of the connections on the positive side of the battery would be beneficial. Anyone care to take a stab at it?
07-31-2002, 11:16 AM
#54
Originally posted by Myrv
a Masters in Physics
a Degree in Honours Physics
a Degree in Computer Science (from the University of Waterloo, perhaps the topmost rated CS school in the world).
and I am currently a Systems Designer.
Maybe I win, maybe I don't. I don't care. What I do know though is I sure as hell am qualified to use ohm's law.
a Masters in Physics
a Degree in Honours Physics
a Degree in Computer Science (from the University of Waterloo, perhaps the topmost rated CS school in the world).
and I am currently a Systems Designer.
Maybe I win, maybe I don't. I don't care. What I do know though is I sure as hell am qualified to use ohm's law.
And you only drive a maxima?
07-31-2002, 11:37 AM
#56
Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 139
Originally posted by skeelo34
And you only drive a maxima?
And you only drive a maxima?
Originally posted by skeelo34
you guys & yer ****ing contests crack me up. ppl need to get a grip & stop being so condescending.
you guys & yer ****ing contests crack me up. ppl need to get a grip & stop being so condescending.
07-31-2002, 11:42 AM
#57
Originally posted by Myrv
Well, if you really want to get into a ****ing contest I have:
a Masters in Physics
a Degree in Honours Physics
a Degree in Computer Science (from the University of Waterloo, perhaps the topmost rated CS school in the world).
Well, if you really want to get into a ****ing contest I have:
a Masters in Physics
a Degree in Honours Physics
a Degree in Computer Science (from the University of Waterloo, perhaps the topmost rated CS school in the world).
Full size spare
07-31-2002, 11:49 AM
#59
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,362
If we can get away from the pi$$ing contest for a minute ...
Is this system made for the Maxima or is it just a universil kit with different instructions for different cars? Could we just get a copy of where the grounding points are and then spend $20-40 on stereo cable and connectors and do it ourselves
...Is this system made for the Maxima or is it just a universil kit with different instructions for different cars? Could we just get a copy of where the grounding points are and then spend $20-40 on stereo cable and connectors and do it ourselves
07-31-2002, 12:30 PM
#60
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,493
I'll try and take a picture of my engine with the points to ground. My friend bought a used Integra Type-R and the previous owner grounded the engine block with a 4 gauge ground wire to the chasis. We always thought that was weird, but maybe it all makes sense now. I would think it'd make more sense, in addition, to ground the battery to the chasis with a 4 gauge.
As for the DIY, I'm going to try this on my other cars. I personally don't think it's going to be the same, but I'd like to think it'd be close. I took a closer look at the Hyper Grounds and compared them to my Rockford Fosgate 4 gauge postivie amp cable. The RF amp wire isn't as flexible and that may be an issue. Secondly the amp wire is just copper (penny like look) with a plastic coating. The Hyper Ground claims to use 99.99% pure copper (and has a silver shine). Further there's an inner shield and outer shield to the Hyper Ground that are suppose to insulate and reject interference. The shielding makes the Hyper Ground look just like a fatter version of my Goodridge stainless steel brakelines.
Also one more thing to note, me headlights are even brighter than before and my audio system sounds a WHOLE lot cleaner. No thump of slit-second hiss when I hit the turn on the headunit or switch sources. Car also starts up a lot faster and without hesitation. I think if you are going to try this yourself, all you need is a set of 5 4 gauge wires, maybe a few washers, crimp grounding rings, and a battery post adapter.
In my honest opinion, I'd just buy the Hyper Ground for the following reasons:
1) it has patent on it
2) it has nice illustrated instructions and a bunch or precautions and warnings (you really don't want to mess anything up)
3) spending $125 for a set of proven wires is not bad comparing them to some of the high line audio wires out there (Streetwires Zero Noise 2.0 RCA patches run $100 each)
I'll post an update with my other cars once my G-tech arrives and I'll update you on my fuel economy.
As for the DIY, I'm going to try this on my other cars. I personally don't think it's going to be the same, but I'd like to think it'd be close. I took a closer look at the Hyper Grounds and compared them to my Rockford Fosgate 4 gauge postivie amp cable. The RF amp wire isn't as flexible and that may be an issue. Secondly the amp wire is just copper (penny like look) with a plastic coating. The Hyper Ground claims to use 99.99% pure copper (and has a silver shine). Further there's an inner shield and outer shield to the Hyper Ground that are suppose to insulate and reject interference. The shielding makes the Hyper Ground look just like a fatter version of my Goodridge stainless steel brakelines.
Also one more thing to note, me headlights are even brighter than before and my audio system sounds a WHOLE lot cleaner. No thump of slit-second hiss when I hit the turn on the headunit or switch sources. Car also starts up a lot faster and without hesitation. I think if you are going to try this yourself, all you need is a set of 5 4 gauge wires, maybe a few washers, crimp grounding rings, and a battery post adapter.
In my honest opinion, I'd just buy the Hyper Ground for the following reasons:
1) it has patent on it
2) it has nice illustrated instructions and a bunch or precautions and warnings (you really don't want to mess anything up)
3) spending $125 for a set of proven wires is not bad comparing them to some of the high line audio wires out there (Streetwires Zero Noise 2.0 RCA patches run $100 each)
I'll post an update with my other cars once my G-tech arrives and I'll update you on my fuel economy.
07-31-2002, 05:42 PM
#62
For those planning to DIY, where is a good place to get 8 guage wire? My local radio shack didn't have any (website lists $0.99/ft). Monstercable 8 ga power wire is $1.49/ft. Any other places that sell cheaper cable. I'm not looking for esoteric "audiophile" cable which I'm not convinced is any better.
Kevin: Yeah, if you can post pics of where to tie in the ground wires, that would be great. I'm looking at my grounding sites in my car and it is clear to me that time and weather has not been too kind. Major oxidation.
Kevin: Yeah, if you can post pics of where to tie in the ground wires, that would be great. I'm looking at my grounding sites in my car and it is clear to me that time and weather has not been too kind. Major oxidation.
08-01-2002, 04:09 PM
#64
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,493
Potential problem for the DIY
I did a little research in amp power cables and came across this:
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/...P01G01B&o=m&a=0
Crutchfield claims that Streetwires' best power wire withstands heat up to 221 degrees. If this is Celsius that it's all good, but it is probably farenheit. From the places my Hyper Ground touch, the high heat-resistant characteristics is essential. One wire is no big deal as it just goes from the battery to the chasis. But three of the five wires touch or sit very close to the intake manifold and engine block. This would probably melt the coating of the amp wires and you'd have yourself a mess. I'm wondering how much heat the Hyper Ground can take. So far so good.
As an update, I've put on 220 miles since the installation and my mileage is looking good. I won't say anything concrete until after 4 tanks of gas, but I'm postitive I'm getting better mileage. Also, my 700 watt RMS sound system is a lot cleaner. I use to have a little hiss when I turned my headunit on; as well as when I changed sources from tuner/cd/Aux. One more thing, on Groupbuycenter.com someone is running a group deal on the HKS version of the Hyper Ground. They are slightly different, in that, they have a distribution block. They are running for $135 shipped plus tax if you are in Ca. Sun Auto told me about the HKS version and said they weren't as good. HKS products never made it big in Japan however, and this was what their competitors had to say...I'm not sure if we can take their word on it for sure.
So far a few people expressed interest in the Hyper Ground and I'm going to be talking to Sun Auto to see if they can offer us a discount. I'm shooting to try and get the 3-layer shieided wires for $105 and the 4-layer shielded for $125. I'll keep those who are interested updated.
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/...P01G01B&o=m&a=0
Crutchfield claims that Streetwires' best power wire withstands heat up to 221 degrees. If this is Celsius that it's all good, but it is probably farenheit. From the places my Hyper Ground touch, the high heat-resistant characteristics is essential. One wire is no big deal as it just goes from the battery to the chasis. But three of the five wires touch or sit very close to the intake manifold and engine block. This would probably melt the coating of the amp wires and you'd have yourself a mess. I'm wondering how much heat the Hyper Ground can take. So far so good.
As an update, I've put on 220 miles since the installation and my mileage is looking good. I won't say anything concrete until after 4 tanks of gas, but I'm postitive I'm getting better mileage. Also, my 700 watt RMS sound system is a lot cleaner. I use to have a little hiss when I turned my headunit on; as well as when I changed sources from tuner/cd/Aux. One more thing, on Groupbuycenter.com someone is running a group deal on the HKS version of the Hyper Ground. They are slightly different, in that, they have a distribution block. They are running for $135 shipped plus tax if you are in Ca. Sun Auto told me about the HKS version and said they weren't as good. HKS products never made it big in Japan however, and this was what their competitors had to say...I'm not sure if we can take their word on it for sure.
So far a few people expressed interest in the Hyper Ground and I'm going to be talking to Sun Auto to see if they can offer us a discount. I'm shooting to try and get the 3-layer shieided wires for $105 and the 4-layer shielded for $125. I'll keep those who are interested updated.
08-01-2002, 04:56 PM
#66
Re: Potential problem for the DIY
Originally posted by Kevin Wong
I did a little research in amp power cables and came across this:
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/...P01G01B&o=m&a=0
Crutchfield claims that Streetwires' best power wire withstands heat up to 221 degrees
I did a little research in amp power cables and came across this:
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/...P01G01B&o=m&a=0
Crutchfield claims that Streetwires' best power wire withstands heat up to 221 degrees
08-01-2002, 04:59 PM
#67
Re: Re: Potential problem for the DIY
I suppose you could just wrap a short run that gets close to the engine w/ header wrap or other type of heat resistant material
Originally posted by Mishmosh
That's a good point. But I'm sure if the Hyper jacket is flexible, it is problably PVC or equivalent. Teflon jackets are considered almost ideal for it durability and its dielectric properties but is pretty expensive and not as flexible. Looking at the engine block ground, I don't think the wire has to touch metal. The intake manifold may be a problem, but I have electric tape in there and it hasn't melted. I don't think it's hot enough there to actually melt but if the jacket rubbed anything, the softening effect of the heat could cause the jacket to rub through to the wire. Anyways, I'm going to go shopping for parts tomorrow...
That's a good point. But I'm sure if the Hyper jacket is flexible, it is problably PVC or equivalent. Teflon jackets are considered almost ideal for it durability and its dielectric properties but is pretty expensive and not as flexible. Looking at the engine block ground, I don't think the wire has to touch metal. The intake manifold may be a problem, but I have electric tape in there and it hasn't melted. I don't think it's hot enough there to actually melt but if the jacket rubbed anything, the softening effect of the heat could cause the jacket to rub through to the wire. Anyways, I'm going to go shopping for parts tomorrow...
08-01-2002, 06:20 PM
#68
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 601
Re: Potential problem for the DIY
Originally posted by Kevin Wong
I did a little research in amp power cables and came across this:
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/...P01G01B&o=m&a=0
Crutchfield claims that Streetwires' best power wire withstands heat up to 221 degrees. If this is Celsius that it's all good, but it is probably farenheit. From the places my Hyper Ground touch, the high heat-resistant characteristics is essential. One wire is no big deal as it just goes from the battery to the chasis. But three of the five wires touch or sit very close to the intake manifold and engine block. This would probably melt the coating of the amp wires and you'd have yourself a mess. I'm wondering how much heat the Hyper Ground can take. So far so good.
As an update, I've put on 220 miles since the installation and my mileage is looking good. I won't say anything concrete until after 4 tanks of gas, but I'm postitive I'm getting better mileage. Also, my 700 watt RMS sound system is a lot cleaner. I use to have a little hiss when I turned my headunit on; as well as when I changed sources from tuner/cd/Aux. One more thing, on Groupbuycenter.com someone is running a group deal on the HKS version of the Hyper Ground. They are slightly different, in that, they have a distribution block. They are running for $135 shipped plus tax if you are in Ca. Sun Auto told me about the HKS version and said they weren't as good. HKS products never made it big in Japan however, and this was what their competitors had to say...I'm not sure if we can take their word on it for sure.
So far a few people expressed interest in the Hyper Ground and I'm going to be talking to Sun Auto to see if they can offer us a discount. I'm shooting to try and get the 3-layer shieided wires for $105 and the 4-layer shielded for $125. I'll keep those who are interested updated.
I did a little research in amp power cables and came across this:
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/...P01G01B&o=m&a=0
Crutchfield claims that Streetwires' best power wire withstands heat up to 221 degrees. If this is Celsius that it's all good, but it is probably farenheit. From the places my Hyper Ground touch, the high heat-resistant characteristics is essential. One wire is no big deal as it just goes from the battery to the chasis. But three of the five wires touch or sit very close to the intake manifold and engine block. This would probably melt the coating of the amp wires and you'd have yourself a mess. I'm wondering how much heat the Hyper Ground can take. So far so good.
As an update, I've put on 220 miles since the installation and my mileage is looking good. I won't say anything concrete until after 4 tanks of gas, but I'm postitive I'm getting better mileage. Also, my 700 watt RMS sound system is a lot cleaner. I use to have a little hiss when I turned my headunit on; as well as when I changed sources from tuner/cd/Aux. One more thing, on Groupbuycenter.com someone is running a group deal on the HKS version of the Hyper Ground. They are slightly different, in that, they have a distribution block. They are running for $135 shipped plus tax if you are in Ca. Sun Auto told me about the HKS version and said they weren't as good. HKS products never made it big in Japan however, and this was what their competitors had to say...I'm not sure if we can take their word on it for sure.
So far a few people expressed interest in the Hyper Ground and I'm going to be talking to Sun Auto to see if they can offer us a discount. I'm shooting to try and get the 3-layer shieided wires for $105 and the 4-layer shielded for $125. I'll keep those who are interested updated.
I thought they go by S/M/L universal kit, not by how many layers???
Thanks
08-01-2002, 07:08 PM
#69
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,493
email is kis_ev@hotmail.com
http://www.sun-auto.co.jp/pro_hotearth_006.htm
I'll talk to Sun Auto tomorrow and see about a price. Here is their link to the Japanese site, you can see the 4 layers of the silver and gold wires. I have the silver and really recommend them from my gains. I never tried to cheap Hyper Grounds, but I can tell you the silver is great. As for compatiblity, these wires are universal with just about any car. Some kits are longer than others, the Maxima uses S (small I guess). I'd think the BMW would use something special since the battery is in the trunk. The beauty of this is, you can swap it out when you change your vehicle.
For the do it yourselfers, I'm going to try and find something that can withstand more than 221 degrees. You definitely don't want the wire coating to melt or anything.
http://www.sun-auto.co.jp/pro_hotearth_006.htm
I'll talk to Sun Auto tomorrow and see about a price. Here is their link to the Japanese site, you can see the 4 layers of the silver and gold wires. I have the silver and really recommend them from my gains. I never tried to cheap Hyper Grounds, but I can tell you the silver is great. As for compatiblity, these wires are universal with just about any car. Some kits are longer than others, the Maxima uses S (small I guess). I'd think the BMW would use something special since the battery is in the trunk. The beauty of this is, you can swap it out when you change your vehicle.
For the do it yourselfers, I'm going to try and find something that can withstand more than 221 degrees. You definitely don't want the wire coating to melt or anything.
08-01-2002, 09:16 PM
#70
Originally posted by Kevin Wong
Here is their link to the Japanese site, you can see the 4 layers of the silver and gold wires.
Here is their link to the Japanese site, you can see the 4 layers of the silver and gold wires.
Also, what is the deal with silver and gold-colored wire? Copper is copper colored. I hope it is not cheap tin plating. Audiophile wire sometimes has Six 9's pure silver plated copper but that is doubtfull and overkill for this application.
Also, I'm surprised the negative terminal of the battery has only two attachment points on my car: the body (just below and behind the battery) and the engine block. Also, at the bolts for each of these, the bare copper strands are showing and visible greenish oxidation is present. Is it common on cars to have so few grounding locations to the battery?
08-01-2002, 11:42 PM
#71
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,493
I know on my girlfriend's Integra Type-R there is only one ground from the battery to the chasis. All the other components ground to the chasis, but according to Sun Auto, they got a 5HP gain on their stock Honda Integra Type-R with a 2.2 MPG gain. So I think all cars are inefficient in the area of grounding.
Oh yeah, thanks for correcting the link, I forgot to copy it in. As for the copper wire not looking like a copper penny, I don't have an answer. It could be that it's galvanized, corrosion-resistent, better conducting, or maybe it's like white gold? I just know that there are 4 layers to the silver and gold colored kit and I can actually see the layers at the end point on some of the wires where they are crimped.
Oh yeah, thanks for correcting the link, I forgot to copy it in. As for the copper wire not looking like a copper penny, I don't have an answer. It could be that it's galvanized, corrosion-resistent, better conducting, or maybe it's like white gold? I just know that there are 4 layers to the silver and gold colored kit and I can actually see the layers at the end point on some of the wires where they are crimped.
08-03-2002, 02:20 PM
#72
Replaced ground wire
Went to install my Basslink yesterday and thought that I would replace my battery terminals at the same time to better allow attachement of other lines. Well, when I looked at the grounding wire, I was surprised at how badly oxidized it was. I unbolted the thing at the chassis just behind the battery and also at the engine block. Both sites showed major oxidation of the connectors AND the sites that they contact. At the bracket on the engine block, a nice later of rust was evident and there was only some patchy areas under the battery wire connector that looked like metal. The chassis ground was no better but the oxidation was more of a grey/white, dull color. I bought new, terminated, 4-guage battery wire at Wal-mart for less than 5 bucks a piece. Instead of the stock connector to the chassis being in the middle of the wire (and exposing wire to the elements), I opted for two separate wires (24 and 43 inches). This was a peace of mind replacement for me since we all know oxidated metal is not a good conductor. The surfaces of the chassis and engine block bracket were scrapped and sanded to expose bare metal again and I applied Caig Labs contact conditioner (said to prevent oxidation and improve conductivity). Although I can't say I gained performance, I can almost swear my idle is smoother (less vibration at the wheel)... I still plan to do the DIY grounding thing (got 20ft 8-ga wire, 10 ring terminals, $20 from car audio shop) but need to plan out where to ground.
Anyways, check out the bad boy oxidation on the stock connectors:
This is the chassis ground which is in the middle of the ground wire. Note that the metal connector simply clamps a jacketless portion of the wire.
This is the contact surface of the ring terminal which bolted to a bracket on the engine block. Most of it was oxidized leaving minimal shiny metal area.
Both of the above were VERY oxidized. If you live in the rust belt or have an older max, I'd definitely check out the grounding in your car. Even if you do add Hyper Ground or equivalent, you still may need to clean up the connections.
Anyways, check out the bad boy oxidation on the stock connectors:
This is the chassis ground which is in the middle of the ground wire. Note that the metal connector simply clamps a jacketless portion of the wire.
This is the contact surface of the ring terminal which bolted to a bracket on the engine block. Most of it was oxidized leaving minimal shiny metal area.
Both of the above were VERY oxidized. If you live in the rust belt or have an older max, I'd definitely check out the grounding in your car. Even if you do add Hyper Ground or equivalent, you still may need to clean up the connections.
08-03-2002, 02:56 PM
#73
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 456
I also bought some 8ga wires and connected it from the battery to the chassis and to the engine block. However, I can't find the grounding point on the intake madifold that was spoken of in this thread. Does anybody know where I should mount the third wire to? When I went for a test drive the weather had already changed from super hot to hot and the car was pulling better but I don't know if it was because of the weather change or the wires. However, my sound system sounds a lot less distorted.
Thanks.
Thanks.
08-03-2002, 03:55 PM
#74
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 601
Originally posted by Kevin Wong
email is kis_ev@hotmail.com
http://www.sun-auto.co.jp/pro_hotearth_006.htm
I'll talk to Sun Auto tomorrow and see about a price. Here is their link to the Japanese site, you can see the 4 layers of the silver and gold wires. I have the silver and really recommend them from my gains. I never tried to cheap Hyper Grounds, but I can tell you the silver is great. As for compatiblity, these wires are universal with just about any car. Some kits are longer than others, the Maxima uses S (small I guess). I'd think the BMW would use something special since the battery is in the trunk. The beauty of this is, you can swap it out when you change your vehicle.
For the do it yourselfers, I'm going to try and find something that can withstand more than 221 degrees. You definitely don't want the wire coating to melt or anything.
email is kis_ev@hotmail.com
http://www.sun-auto.co.jp/pro_hotearth_006.htm
I'll talk to Sun Auto tomorrow and see about a price. Here is their link to the Japanese site, you can see the 4 layers of the silver and gold wires. I have the silver and really recommend them from my gains. I never tried to cheap Hyper Grounds, but I can tell you the silver is great. As for compatiblity, these wires are universal with just about any car. Some kits are longer than others, the Maxima uses S (small I guess). I'd think the BMW would use something special since the battery is in the trunk. The beauty of this is, you can swap it out when you change your vehicle.
For the do it yourselfers, I'm going to try and find something that can withstand more than 221 degrees. You definitely don't want the wire coating to melt or anything.
Thanks
08-03-2002, 05:51 PM
#75
Originally posted by 2KxSEx
However, I can't find the grounding point on the intake madifold that was spoken of in this thread. Does anybody know where I should mount the third wire to? When I went for a test drive the weather had already changed from super hot to hot and the car was pulling better but I don't know if it was because of the weather change or the wires. However, my sound system sounds a lot less distorted.
However, I can't find the grounding point on the intake madifold that was spoken of in this thread. Does anybody know where I should mount the third wire to? When I went for a test drive the weather had already changed from super hot to hot and the car was pulling better but I don't know if it was because of the weather change or the wires. However, my sound system sounds a lot less distorted.
My sound system is a lot better now but I just installed a new head unit (no separate amps) and the basslink so I can't say for sure. Some people reported brighter headlights so I'll be looking for that too...
08-03-2002, 10:34 PM
#76
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,493
Glad everything is working out
I tried the DIY kit on my sister's 90 Accord today. I feel some improvement, but not as dramatic as the Hyper Ground in the Maxima. So far, I only grounded her battery to the chasis, engine block to the chasis, and engine block to the battery. I'm using 4 gauge Lightning Audio amp wire since I had a dual amp kit lying around. I suggest you guys use 4 gauge since the Hyper Ground is a 4 gauge. HKS uses 8 gauge and the gains are not as good:
http://www.hksusa.com/products/?id=1506
As for the ground on the intake manifold, XS grounded mine on the left side opposite the power steering resevior (I'm not certain, I'm just too lazy to check right now).
So I guess you guys can testify that this concept is not BS at all. You're feeling smoother power and cleaner audio. You guys should also see a few more miles per gas tank too. I don't think the DIY kit will show as good gains as the Hyper Ground. I went to an electrician's store today and showed them the Hyper Ground under my hood and they were very impressed. They said that everything was just about the best quality they've ever seen, from the terminal rings, the wire, the coating, and the 2 layers of shielding. The battery post adapter functions perfectly, but it's not as shiny as the ring terminals.
I'll be talking with the head of distributions of Sun Auto on Thursday. He mentioned a group buy discount, but I think he's hoping for a large number like 30 or so. I'll see what we can do. As for the sales pitch, these wires are perfectly universal to just about any car, they improve so much for such little money, and they are very easy to install.
http://www.hksusa.com/products/?id=1506
As for the ground on the intake manifold, XS grounded mine on the left side opposite the power steering resevior (I'm not certain, I'm just too lazy to check right now).
So I guess you guys can testify that this concept is not BS at all. You're feeling smoother power and cleaner audio. You guys should also see a few more miles per gas tank too. I don't think the DIY kit will show as good gains as the Hyper Ground. I went to an electrician's store today and showed them the Hyper Ground under my hood and they were very impressed. They said that everything was just about the best quality they've ever seen, from the terminal rings, the wire, the coating, and the 2 layers of shielding. The battery post adapter functions perfectly, but it's not as shiny as the ring terminals.
I'll be talking with the head of distributions of Sun Auto on Thursday. He mentioned a group buy discount, but I think he's hoping for a large number like 30 or so. I'll see what we can do. As for the sales pitch, these wires are perfectly universal to just about any car, they improve so much for such little money, and they are very easy to install.
08-04-2002, 04:44 AM
#78
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,362
Originally posted by Mishmosh
Right in front of the intake manifold are two grounding bolts that have ring terminals there from the harness in front. Just use one of those. I guess if you want to be accurate, it is part of the lower intake manifold. I don't think anything grounds to the upper intake manifold though. Don't tighten those bolts too tight though as one just sheared off on me and I had to put all the terminals on the one bolt that was left! In the pic below, one of the grounding bolts is shown with a yellow ring terminal (with two harness ring terminals beneath it)--the other grounding bolt is 1 cm to the right of that one.
Right in front of the intake manifold are two grounding bolts that have ring terminals there from the harness in front. Just use one of those. I guess if you want to be accurate, it is part of the lower intake manifold. I don't think anything grounds to the upper intake manifold though. Don't tighten those bolts too tight though as one just sheared off on me and I had to put all the terminals on the one bolt that was left! In the pic below, one of the grounding bolts is shown with a yellow ring terminal (with two harness ring terminals beneath it)--the other grounding bolt is 1 cm to the right of that one.
I thought the car got most of it's power from the alternator when it was running, how can improving the gound have such a big effect?
08-04-2002, 06:17 AM
#79
Originally posted by Anachronism
Do these bolts hold anything in or are the just a grounding point?
I thought the car got most of it's power from the alternator when it was running, how can improving the gound have such a big effect?
Do these bolts hold anything in or are the just a grounding point?
I thought the car got most of it's power from the alternator when it was running, how can improving the gound have such a big effect?
Yes, power from the alternator... but the ground is referenced from the battery neg terminal via chassis/engine block.
Originally posted by Kevin wong
They said that everything was just about the best quality they've ever seen, from the terminal rings, the wire, the coating, and the 2 layers of shielding
They said that everything was just about the best quality they've ever seen, from the terminal rings, the wire, the coating, and the 2 layers of shielding
08-04-2002, 06:45 AM
#80
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,362
Originally posted by Mishmosh
Not sure what the benefit of two layers of shielding is when we are talking about grounding wires. Usually, you shield a signal lead from interference/crosstalk with the use of a shield that is grounded. In this case, the "signal" lead is ground. If the shield is not grounded, it isn't shielding... correct me if I'm wrong on this. And dude, we need some pics!
Not sure what the benefit of two layers of shielding is when we are talking about grounding wires. Usually, you shield a signal lead from interference/crosstalk with the use of a shield that is grounded. In this case, the "signal" lead is ground. If the shield is not grounded, it isn't shielding... correct me if I'm wrong on this. And dude, we need some pics!