Car Enthusiasts: Let's discuss Maximas and Integras
10-30-2002, 11:34 AM
#1
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Car Enthusiasts: Let's discuss Maximas and Integras
Due to explicit content that expressed the reality of comparing two cars when raced on the street, the moderators had to delete my post. That's alright, here's the *edited* version for the "kids".
A friend and I were discussing cars the other night, and he pointed this website out to me. I have a stock 98 5speed and his brother has a modded Integra. What type/model.. you'll discover soon.
If you'll check out this link: http://www.importreview.com/reviews/lsvtec.html
you'll find some information pertaining to dyno charts that I was shocked by when I saw them.
You have to understand that, like many others, I always believed Integras were riced out never-gonna-be-fast cars, so naturally, I got into a heated argument concerning 1/4 mile times for the stock 98 5speed and his brother's LS-VTec. Comparing stock times, Maximas flat out kills all integras, he definitly gave me that.
If you look at the dyno under "horsepower" potential", it boasts over 200HP to the wheels for mods that, according to my friend who has already done it, costs roughly $5000 and its still all motor. I'm planning to throw in a Y, B, VI, hi-flow CAT, and CAI which would run around $1500 depending on where and what you buy, but for $5000 his mods give him the low 12s at the track. That's defintely bang for the buck. I was considering bringing up the max's Vortech, but for around the similar price of $5000 for the charger and the usual stuff (y-pipe, intake, etc), I definetly think the Integra has out modded the max dollar for dollar.
Sure its got no torque before VTec kicks in around 5k rpm, but modding the ecu brings the ls-vtec redline to 9k rpm, which compensates for spending time at the low rpm with power.
I love the max and all and tried to defend it when my friend and I were debating but I couldn't help to admit that this modded LS-vtec is an all-motor beast.
A friend and I were discussing cars the other night, and he pointed this website out to me. I have a stock 98 5speed and his brother has a modded Integra. What type/model.. you'll discover soon.
If you'll check out this link: http://www.importreview.com/reviews/lsvtec.html
you'll find some information pertaining to dyno charts that I was shocked by when I saw them.
You have to understand that, like many others, I always believed Integras were riced out never-gonna-be-fast cars, so naturally, I got into a heated argument concerning 1/4 mile times for the stock 98 5speed and his brother's LS-VTec. Comparing stock times, Maximas flat out kills all integras, he definitly gave me that.
If you look at the dyno under "horsepower" potential", it boasts over 200HP to the wheels for mods that, according to my friend who has already done it, costs roughly $5000 and its still all motor. I'm planning to throw in a Y, B, VI, hi-flow CAT, and CAI which would run around $1500 depending on where and what you buy, but for $5000 his mods give him the low 12s at the track. That's defintely bang for the buck. I was considering bringing up the max's Vortech, but for around the similar price of $5000 for the charger and the usual stuff (y-pipe, intake, etc), I definetly think the Integra has out modded the max dollar for dollar.
Sure its got no torque before VTec kicks in around 5k rpm, but modding the ecu brings the ls-vtec redline to 9k rpm, which compensates for spending time at the low rpm with power.
I love the max and all and tried to defend it when my friend and I were debating but I couldn't help to admit that this modded LS-vtec is an all-motor beast.
10-30-2002, 11:45 AM
#4
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Jeff, I know the max has the ability to run low 12s, especially with the emerging turbo kits out there for the 4th gen and that'll be definitely something I'm looking into.
However powerful turbos are for our cars, that LS-VTec is still an all-motor setup and has the potential for going nos or turbo.
However powerful turbos are for our cars, that LS-VTec is still an all-motor setup and has the potential for going nos or turbo.
10-30-2002, 11:50 AM
#5
Not necessarily. Although it's built tough(or assumed to be), a high compression motor making lotsa NA power is not the formula for high boost turbo power. To run big numbers on boost, he would have to rebuild the engine w/ different pistons/rods etc..
On the other hand, you can say, this is done on a stock maxima engine. What if we decide to actually put some strong parts in?
On the other hand, you can say, this is done on a stock maxima engine. What if we decide to actually put some strong parts in?
Originally posted by MaximumMax
However powerful turbos are for our cars, that LS-VTec is still an all-motor setup and has the potential for going nos or turbo.
However powerful turbos are for our cars, that LS-VTec is still an all-motor setup and has the potential for going nos or turbo.
10-30-2002, 11:56 AM
#7
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so is this comparasion only on 1/4mi or horsepower? cause if its only for 1/4mi then the Max is at a disadvantage cause its bigger and heavier. Integra has MUCH MUCH more aftermarket support then the Max. A "fast" car doesnt only mean fast in the 1/4mi. Handling, braking and DRIVER makes a real "fast car" Anything can be made fast in the 1/4 mi with the right amount of time and money.
If your comparing whats the better car overall then id say the Max no questions asked. 4 doors, roomy interior, lots of options, good motor for everyday driving, and much more.
If your comparing whats the better car overall then id say the Max no questions asked. 4 doors, roomy interior, lots of options, good motor for everyday driving, and much more.
10-30-2002, 11:58 AM
#8
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i may be mistaken but the ls teg doesn't come v-tec. the gsr and type r are vtec. he has obviously done some thing to it but yes dollar to horsepower those little motors with 5 grand in them will put down nice number but you have to consider the power to rate ratio.
10-30-2002, 12:08 PM
#9
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Turbo95max, yes I am specifically comparing 1/4 times because that is what counts at the track. Those Integras weigh in around 2800 so its definitely got a lighter platform to work with suspension wise. As far as other stuff goes, its all based on what the individual values. Would I trade in my Maxima for an Integra? Hell no. I've got 4 doors, spacious room for 4, and a refined sedan that doubles as decent sports car.
10-30-2002, 12:10 PM
#10
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The car they were showing on that site is a fully built engine as well. Most people on here do not go near the building up of internals etc yet. I bet if you did go for it you would see more Max's in the 13 second all motorrange.
Nealoc has dipped into the 13's now and if he were to build up a few more items like cams, or go for a higher compression setup I am sure he could hit even deeper into them. Once the aftermarket opens up for us as much as it has for Honda then we will see what kind of potential we are looking at here.
SuDZ
Nealoc has dipped into the 13's now and if he were to build up a few more items like cams, or go for a higher compression setup I am sure he could hit even deeper into them. Once the aftermarket opens up for us as much as it has for Honda then we will see what kind of potential we are looking at here.
SuDZ
10-30-2002, 12:29 PM
#11
Originally posted by latinmaxima
i may be mistaken but the ls teg doesn't come v-tec.
i may be mistaken but the ls teg doesn't come v-tec.
10-30-2002, 03:21 PM
#13
Re: Car Enthusiasts: Let's discuss Maximas and Integras
what is there to discuss?
inline 4 vs v6
you really cant compare the two cars equally.
in stock form, the RSX is pretty swift, but its more of a toy car than the maxima.
the difference in average age of each car owner is roughly 8-10 years apart.
i dunno if you can keep comparing the RSX/Integra to the maxima.
Jeff is right. you put down $5k in each car, and you have a pretty darn fast car in each right.
what we should be more interested in is comparing the maxima to a bmw, or any other relatively midsize sport sedans.
the Teg definately has the cornering capabilities, where it lacks in Hp.
other way around for the max.
personally? the RSX is a dope lil kit car perfect for zipping around in traffic, but i'm old now.
inline 4 vs v6
you really cant compare the two cars equally.
in stock form, the RSX is pretty swift, but its more of a toy car than the maxima.
the difference in average age of each car owner is roughly 8-10 years apart.
i dunno if you can keep comparing the RSX/Integra to the maxima.
Jeff is right. you put down $5k in each car, and you have a pretty darn fast car in each right.
what we should be more interested in is comparing the maxima to a bmw, or any other relatively midsize sport sedans.
the Teg definately has the cornering capabilities, where it lacks in Hp.
other way around for the max.
personally? the RSX is a dope lil kit car perfect for zipping around in traffic, but i'm old now.
10-31-2002, 06:07 AM
#15
anybody noticed that the integ in that link only weighs a mere 2000lbs?
that's a pocket rocket!
that's ridiculous; stock they r not fast but u're not talking bout a stock integ.
max and integ r tooooo different to compare
that's a pocket rocket!
I always believed Integras were riced out never-gonna-be-fast cars
max and integ r tooooo different to compare
10-31-2002, 08:15 AM
#16
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Re: Car Enthusiasts: Let's discuss Maximas and Integras
Originally posted by MaximumMax
Sure its got no torque before VTec kicks in around 5k rpm, but modding the ecu brings the ls-vtec redline to 9k rpm, which compensates for spending time at the low rpm with power.
Sure its got no torque before VTec kicks in around 5k rpm, but modding the ecu brings the ls-vtec redline to 9k rpm, which compensates for spending time at the low rpm with power.
(Sorry, I realize that was kinda OT, just thought I'd point that out.)
10-31-2002, 08:46 AM
#17
maxima vs accord???
Whats funny to me is that nobody compares Maxima's with accords and camry's anymore. As i remember it at least back in 95 (i have a 95 se)the accord and camry were the maxima's biggest foes at least class wise. Personally i believe that maaxima's have far surpassed their old "enemies". As far as comparing them with civics and tegs as many people seen to like to do why? There totally different cars which fit into totally different niches. As far as cars in maxima's class I'd like to see a list of maximas direct competitors year by year. Like gen 1's = who was the competition, gen 2 and so on... Compared on that level i think people will see why maxima owners love there cars so much.
10-31-2002, 08:47 AM
#18
Re: Car Enthusiasts: Let's discuss Maximas and Integras
If it's light enough, you don't need too much torque to get it going. But if the more torquier motor got the jump, your statement only holds true if the 1/4 hasen't already happened. ie.. doesn't have enough road to catch up
Originally posted by MaximumMax
Sure its got no torque before VTec kicks in around 5k rpm, but modding the ecu brings the ls-vtec redline to 9k rpm, which compensates for spending time at the low rpm with power.
Sure its got no torque before VTec kicks in around 5k rpm, but modding the ecu brings the ls-vtec redline to 9k rpm, which compensates for spending time at the low rpm with power.
10-31-2002, 11:29 AM
#19
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
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Here's my take on this whole issue...
Here we have a Nissan VQ compared to a Honda VTEC of the same size with MORE horsepower but LESS torque.
I think it's safe to say that 99% of your daily driving is going to be below 5000rpm. One of these two engines gives you better performance at 5000rpm and below. The other engine ONLY gives you performance if you're above 5000rpm.
Since 99% of your driving is below 5000rpm, which one is more useful, and which will give you better overall daily-drive performance?
Here we have a Nissan VQ compared to a Honda VTEC of the same size with MORE horsepower but LESS torque.
I think it's safe to say that 99% of your daily driving is going to be below 5000rpm. One of these two engines gives you better performance at 5000rpm and below. The other engine ONLY gives you performance if you're above 5000rpm.
Since 99% of your driving is below 5000rpm, which one is more useful, and which will give you better overall daily-drive performance?
10-31-2002, 11:35 AM
#20
Steve is that question assuming both cars are the same weight? Or does it account for the lighter weight and possibly better gears of the teg?
Originally posted by SteVTEC
Here's my take on this whole issue...
Here we have a Nissan VQ compared to a Honda VTEC of the same size with MORE horsepower but LESS torque.
I think it's safe to say that 99% of your daily driving is going to be below 5000rpm. One of these two engines gives you better performance at 5000rpm and below. The other engine ONLY gives you performance if you're above 5000rpm.
Since 99% of your driving is below 5000rpm, which one is more useful, and which will give you better overall daily-drive performance?
Here's my take on this whole issue...
Here we have a Nissan VQ compared to a Honda VTEC of the same size with MORE horsepower but LESS torque.
I think it's safe to say that 99% of your daily driving is going to be below 5000rpm. One of these two engines gives you better performance at 5000rpm and below. The other engine ONLY gives you performance if you're above 5000rpm.
Since 99% of your driving is below 5000rpm, which one is more useful, and which will give you better overall daily-drive performance?
10-31-2002, 11:39 AM
#21
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Originally posted by Jeff92se
Steve is that question assuming both cars are the same weight? Or does it account for the lighter weight and possibly better gears of the teg?
Steve is that question assuming both cars are the same weight? Or does it account for the lighter weight and possibly better gears of the teg?
10-31-2002, 11:52 AM
#22
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Since the thread is about Integra's and Maxima's, I'll just mention that I raced one (a stock GS-R) *ahem* at the track once and I pulled a car on him from 60-90. He didn't look very happy 
and I pulled a car on him from 60-90. He didn't look very happy
10-31-2002, 11:52 AM
#23
I really like Tegs. When my girl gets a new car, I'm contemplating keeping her Teg and dropping a 5-spd in, modding it, gutting the interior, and caging it in. Can you say SCCA race car?
That is, provided it's all cost effective. With a free car it should be, but what the hell do I know? The tranny swap might end up costing me 2K alone.
That is, provided it's all cost effective. With a free car it should be, but what the hell do I know? The tranny swap might end up costing me 2K alone.
10-31-2002, 12:13 PM
#24
BAH...sell it and use the money to buy an old 89+ 5spd CRX and strip it, drop in B16A and spice up the suspension then you'll have a real SCCA car!
Originally posted by Bluebird
I really like Tegs. When my girl gets a new car, I'm contemplating keeping her Teg and dropping a 5-spd in, modding it, gutting the interior, and caging it in. Can you say SCCA race car? That is, provided it's all cost effective. With a free car it should be, but what the hell do I know? The tranny swap might end up costing me 2K alone.
I really like Tegs. When my girl gets a new car, I'm contemplating keeping her Teg and dropping a 5-spd in, modding it, gutting the interior, and caging it in. Can you say SCCA race car?
That is, provided it's all cost effective. With a free car it should be, but what the hell do I know? The tranny swap might end up costing me 2K alone.
10-31-2002, 12:24 PM
#25
Datsun 510 + SR20DET = ownage to the nth degree.
Originally posted by DA-MAX
BAH...sell it and use the money to buy an old 89+ 5spd CRX and strip it, drop in B16A and spice up the suspension then you'll have a real SCCA car!
BAH...sell it and use the money to buy an old 89+ 5spd CRX and strip it, drop in B16A and spice up the suspension then you'll have a real SCCA car!
10-31-2002, 12:43 PM
#28
I doubt i could find an old 510 around here. And here is a perfect example of my retarded logic, I'd rather have a Teg instead of a CRX simply based on looks alone. I know the CRX is lighter and all, but I'm kind of goofy like that.
10-31-2002, 01:10 PM
#29
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Originally posted by Jeff92se
Datsun 510 + SR20DET = ownage to the nth degree.
Datsun 510 + SR20DET = ownage to the nth degree.
SuDZ
10-31-2002, 02:27 PM
#33
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I think one fact that gets overlooked when we compare the VQ (or any other japanese V6) to the Honda B-series motor is how easy it is to work on these little b@stards. Aftermarket manufacturers have to consider how much work/time/$$$ is involved in changing parts. Swapping heads, cams, or headers in a B-series motor is a cakewalk compared to a Maxima. The JWT cams are a perfect example. $1,000+ for cams and about that in labor and parts. If your knowledgable (or brave) enough to do the cam install yourself it's a weekend affair.
There's a good reason why DOHC 4-valve V6's have a small aftermarket. They are a pain to work on!
There's a good reason why DOHC 4-valve V6's have a small aftermarket. They are a pain to work on!
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