Wow, not in my wildest dreams would I ever think my lowered (H&R/AGX) 96 Maxima could ride like just stock, especially in cold weather. These things work and a lot better than I thought. Even at normal cruise, there is much less harshness resonating thru the cabin. Road inperfections are mild thumps that are barely felt. Before the strut mounts I'd feel a decent little jolt and slap over bigger bumps when the rear beam went over them. Now my car feels like it has, dare I say, an independent rear suspension. It just a nice "thump". Much of the "rocking" of beam over a bumpy turn is gone. I might even have to raise my AGX up a notch (currently a "3") because it rides so comfy. I might also consider their shortened struts for the front.

For those that don't know, Motivational Engineering has developed rear strut mounts for the Sentra/Maxima that gain back ~1" of wheel travel. They're really nice to have on a lowered suspension.

Dave

 

how much do these things cost? where'd you get them?

 

yes...please post more info. I will be installing the same suspension set up as you, and if I can get it to ride like "stock"...

Did a little research...http://www.motivational.net/products/shockmounts.shtml

 

you didn't tell me you got those....what else are you holding out on?

 

Changing the shock piston mounting point couldn't possibly change the way your car rides. It's pretty much impossible. H&R's leave you with about 1.5 inches of shock travel on the stock mounts in the rear. More then enough to soak up bumps without contacting the bump stops. The position of the piston has nothing to do with the shocks damping or valving. It's linear throughout the shock travel. Therefore no change in ride comfort could have happened. The spring and rear beam are still under the exact same load in the exact same place as it was on the OEM mounts. The only thing that changed is the shock piston and bump stop which are now extended about an inch freeing up some piston travel. But as I previously stated, you already have plenty of travel there to start with. And being the shock is linear throughout it's movement, the dampening hasn't changed. Soft through Frim settings are only changed with valving with is selectable by the adjustment dial.

There are benefits to having this setup. You can load up your car a bit more in the rear and not be riding on bump stops. But under normal driving conditions with a normal load on the rear suspension, the ride of the vehicle should not change just by changing the position of the pistion and bump stop.

 

I am going to see how I can make me my own motavational rear pieces on my car. Ill go to a metal shop and see what they charge

 

The ride will change because the moving the upper mounting point moves the bumpstop. This gives you another inch before you hit the bumpstop. This is exactly what makes the ride smoother.

The immediate benefit of this mod illustrates just how little suspension travel the Maxima has. And also shows, once agian, why Sprints are TOO LOW!

For comparison's sake, the Mercedes C-class has 9 inches of wheel travel in the rear.

 

My sprints have NEVER hit the bump stops in the front or the back. Read njmaxseltd's post again.

BTW - Rear sprint springs lower the car LESS than eibach or H&R...that's why everyone cuts them....

 

Just because you dont feel a hard "bottoming out" doesnt mean you aren't hitting the bumpstops. If you have uncut stops, try this:

Have someone of your weight sit in the car and reach up into the wheelwell and feel how much space there is between the top of the strut and the stop. You will be surprised how little, if any, travel there is left.

Even if your stops are cut, you'll be surprised.

I know that I have about 3/4" between my strut top and my uncut stops, in the front, with Eibachs. This is without me in the car. I haven't looked at the rears. This means that if I have myself and a front seat passenger in the car, I'm already hitting the stops in the fron...on smooth pavement...

 

yes, I'm wondering the same thing...

 

Did you read the thread before you replied??

 

Suspension travel on a stock Max is about 3.5 inches.

H&R's lower the rear about 1.5 inches.

Do the math yourself.

 

oops, im very slow today

 

how do they install???? do you have to remove you rear suspension to do this? I'm confused

 

They replace the rear strut mount.

 

Unless you try them, you'll never know. The reason you think your H&R setup rides a bit firm/harsh in the winter is because of the beam and the lack of stock wheel travel. In the summer it's not so bad, but in the winter as the suspension, strut valving, rubber bushings get tighter, the ride gets harsher. Even with the soft H&R springs.

These mounts DO change the way the car rides in all conditions. It's been in the lower 40s during the time I was testing these and my car is riding better than it does in hot weather. You're right, the only thing that changes is the piston mounting location which gains about an 1" in strut piston travel. That extra 1" of length keeps the from strut piston from riding low in the strut housing which increases harshness and pushes the strut to work in a tighter operating range. With the new strut mounts, the piston is operating nearly as it would with the stock springs.

Today on my way to work, I hit a very rutted and washboard road as I turn left into work. Before I had the mounts, the car would rock horribly over the turn. Now the car goes over ruts nearly as well as the Solara I rented for work last week. Also, there are a couple pavement cuts with dips on the same entrance road. Before the strut mounts, the rear beam would harshly slap the pavement cut, then dip, and then hop up pretty badly. Now the beam pretty much glides over the pavement cut. I'm not the only one that has noticed a much improved overall ride. You would be amazed by how much of the ride harshness in the Maxima is attributed to the rear beam.

These things work.


Dave

 

You will never hit the bump stop unless you have a full trunk, and 2 big fat people in the back of the car with H&R. Moving the bumpstops up higher will not affect the ride at all unless you have what I said in the car.

 

What ever the reason... the ride improves...

Has anyone put these rear mounts on and NOT felt an improvement? Although I don't know many of us that have them... I don't recall anyone calling them a waste of money, yet.

 

Hate to disagree with you but just replacing the mounts will not affect the ride at all. Sorry.

I have wroked on alot of suspensions on various cars and this is not the case.

What most likely is the case, when you replaced the strut mount with the new one, you readjusted the seat of the spring, the bushings, etc all to a slightly different part when mounting it. A part that isn't as worn possibly, which will give you some cushion. This is most likely the reason why the ride is better.

 

Sorry Russ, i'm gonna have to disagree with you there... unless the roads are perfect where you live, here in Seattle with all the crappy roads, I bottom out at least once a week, especially getting on the freeway by my house, with H&Rs/AGX combo. I made the mistake and didn't cut my bumpstops, though I will fix that soon hopefully (too cold, no garage ) Anyway, I don't have anything in my trunk, and rarely do I have a full tank of gas, and no fat people either...

 

If you are bottoming out you have more than just the bumpstops hitting.

I had H&R and not so good shocks TOKICO blues, I only bottomed out with a full load. Bottoming out is like you hit a major wall and the car didn't go down anymore. Unless AGX suck you should never bottom out no matter what.

 

If you haven't tried this product, in a Maxima, then please stop making baseless claims.

 

You haven't either. But also its common sense. The MOUNT is only there to MOUNT the hardware to the metal of the car. PERIOD. It has no affect on the way the suspension rides.

 

This product relocates a key suspension point. Exlpain to me how adding an inch of shock travel, which is probably close to 2 inches of wheel travel, will not effect ride and handling.

Let's use some hypothetical, made up numbers...

With the stock suspension, let's say the rear suspension can absorb a 2.5 inch bump without hitting th the bumpstop. Ok, lower the rear 1.5 inches with H&R springs. Now the suspension can only absorb a 1 inch bump before hitting the stop.

When the strut top hits the stop, bad things happen. Ths spring rate at that corner goes way up, by several orders of magnitude. This means that more of the impact force is transmitted to the body (this means felt by the passengers).

These mounts let the lowered suspension on our car go back to soaking up 2 inch bumps. This mean that larger bumps can be absorbed before the passengers feel it. SMOOTHER RIDE.

No, I havent tried these myself, but I do understand how they improve ride and handling.

 

 

Oh stop it.

Please pick apart my argument point by point. Explain how I am wrong instead of just stating it...

 

Dave, how about using shortened rear struts AND the raised mounts. Wouldn't this give you more suspension travel than stock?

 

Thanks for the report Dave, I think I will get these when I finally get around to lowering my car. Would these have similer benifits for the front suspension? (I know they are not made, but was wondering if it would be worth it to pester them for some) Or will the shortened struts do the same thing? If I am reading their site right it is $200 plus shipping and you have to send them the struts, a little steep unless they give a significant improvement.

Is it possible to somehow raise the spring perch (right term?) so you could lower the car yet keep all your suspention travel?

 

Chunger has the front shortened struts. He said it's nowhere near the improvement compared to the rear raised mounts.

 

Yes, but I don't think it's necessary unless you've got a slammed suspension. I don't think they make shortened rear struts.


Dave

 

Look, for all you non-believers go ahead and believe what you want. Develop your therories and what not. I'm not a dumb guy and I consider myself pretty knowledgable when it comes to cars. I understand how and why this setup works so well. I know for a fact that everything about the ride in my car has dramatically improved from such a simple suspension modification. Yes, even cruising on a nice smooth rode feels even smoother. I got these mounts to add wheel travel, but I also got a better ride which I wasn't exactly expecting. YES, I have bottomed out my rear suspension with H&R/AGX, 60% cut bumpstops, NO stereo, and no fat guys in the back. 1.5" of travel is NOTHING.

During my lunch break I put my car on some very rough streets. Places that taxed the original H&R setup aren't remotely as bad. Coming up to a highway overpass near my work, there is a pavement cut that literally as become a 2+" speed bump. Imagine what it's like to hit a speed bump at 35-45mph with a 1.5" lowered suspension in the rear. I try to avoid it when I can. Usually when the beam hits the bump, a lot of harshness and big "whack" is felt in your back and the chassis becomes very unsettled. I went straight over that bump today at 40mph. My car went over the bump as if was a small 1" bump. Gone was the harshness, clunks, thuds, and most importantly, the chassis felt planted. This car rides nearly like an IRS in bumpy turns. I'm very happy.

For guys that auto-X, this a must have. PERIOD.

For the non-believers, if you're in Kansas City, look me up and I'll take you for a ride.


Dave

 

As long as you go with H&R, Progress, ST, or Eibach, there's no need for shortened front struts. The front struts have a bit more travel than the rears. I've had three sets of springs on my car and the H&Rs are by far the best.

Dave

 

IF these add 1" of strut rod travel, you will allow the struts to PERFORM closer to the height they were DESIGNED for, which will benefit longevity and rebound/dampening.

Why do you think Tokicos and even AGXs die early with lowering springs? Because people FORCE the strut rod away from it's center position, which limits it's ability to work properly. That's why manufacturers only warranty their product for mild drops. I'm ignoring the bottoming out theory, since that's a quick killer of any strut/shock.

 

can somebody please reply with a basic how-to for the install... is this something I can do at home with a socket set? do I add them from inside the trunk or from under the suspension side?? I really want to buy these, but I want to know how hard the install will be.

 

THANK YOU

 

 

These are the top mounts that go over the top of the springs.

To install:

1) Remove the strut assembly
2) Unbolt the upper strut mount nut and remove the stock upper strut mount from the spring
3) Pry out the rubber strut isolater from the stock upper strut mount and then curse at the stock upper strut mount for it's bad design and throw it into a dark corner
4) Place the rubber strut isolater in the ME upper strut mount and reinstall everything like it was stock.
5) Enjoy


Dave

 

sounds good... how long did the install take, and do I need any special tools?

 

Some input from me:

I have:

1) my Koni front strut assembly modified from Motivational.net
2) The rear mounts with konis at the rear (koni set for the upper position of the 2)
3) Intrax springs (not cut or modified aside from spiral wrap)
4) My bumpstops were NOT cut

Results (subjective of course):
The rears made a huge difference in ride quality
The fronts (done after the rear modification) did not improve AS MUCH as the rears but was still a notable improvement.

My 245/40/18s with a 35ET NOW scrape slightly on LARGE bumps.

Rear installation is about the same as doing a rear shock replacement. Not much harder.

 

Haha you guys must be old as *****, should buy a cadillac instead... j/k

anyway I have always been wondering about these things and if they really work. But they are sure expensive as *****. I guess if I keep this car I should look into this considering I've got cut sprints in the rear and a pretty heavy stereo.