Raced a Black 3000GT
09-15-2000, 11:26 AM
#41
Supporting Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: New Windsor, NY
Posts: 2,799
Sup PacMan
Remember me, I am gonna keep my mouth shut like I swore to do on 3SI but you make valid points and I see where you are coming from 100%, I think those few of us, other than maybe smartmaxowner that were at 3si during the first VR4 flame war know the point you are trying to convey. Hows the ride by the way?
09-15-2000, 11:38 AM
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Ah...
Originally posted by Jeff92se
What do you mean "not an issue anymore" So you can get parts. Exactly who is gonna bench press this rock outa the car and then tear down the tranny to work on it? If Mitsu tech guys can't, who can? For a reasonable price?
What do you mean "not an issue anymore" So you can get parts. Exactly who is gonna bench press this rock outa the car and then tear down the tranny to work on it? If Mitsu tech guys can't, who can? For a reasonable price?
And do you have to have NASA certification to work on your own car or what?
I will admit though that Jap sports cars tend to be the worse in this domain. Extra turbo & intercooler plumbing doesn't help either.
later,
Amir
09-15-2000, 11:59 AM
#44
Re: Re: Ah...
Thanks for the reply. But dont' you guys have like 3 or more ecus? engine/tranny/traction control? What I'm asking is aren't the VR4 harder to work on than MOST Japanese sports cars because of the extra doo-dads? So your saying the Supra and 300ZX TT also cost just as much to service, even though they don't have the awd and the Toyota has the inline 6 and turbos that are attached to one cartridge? The $5k figure is for a new tranny. Correct? Thanks!
BTW I've torn down my Maxima engine already. Wasn't hard, just time consuming. Just so you know where I'm coming from technically.
QUOTE]Originally posted by Amir Shaikh
Actually, the labour was never an issue for the tranny. It was always the AVAILABILITY of parts. You can get refurbished trannies for about $2K not $5K.
I think the guys in the 70s and 80s ask the same questions about every car today. It's all relative.
I will admit though that Jap sports cars tend to be the worse in this domain. Extra turbo & intercooler plumbing doesn't help either.
later,
Amir [/QUOTE]
BTW I've torn down my Maxima engine already. Wasn't hard, just time consuming. Just so you know where I'm coming from technically.
QUOTE]Originally posted by Amir Shaikh
Originally posted by Jeff92se
What do you mean "not an issue anymore" So you can get parts. Exactly who is gonna bench press this rock outa the car and then tear down the tranny to work on it? If Mitsu tech guys can't, who can? For a reasonable price?
What do you mean "not an issue anymore" So you can get parts. Exactly who is gonna bench press this rock outa the car and then tear down the tranny to work on it? If Mitsu tech guys can't, who can? For a reasonable price?
And do you have to have NASA certification to work on your own car or what?
I will admit though that Jap sports cars tend to be the worse in this domain. Extra turbo & intercooler plumbing doesn't help either.
later,
Amir [/QUOTE]
:
09-15-2000, 03:24 PM
#47
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Re: Re: Ah...
Originally posted by Jeff92se
Thanks for the reply. But dont' you guys have like 3 or more ecus? engine/tranny/traction control? What I'm asking is aren't the VR4 harder to work on than MOST Japanese sports cars because of the extra doo-dads? So your saying the Supra and 300ZX TT also cost just as much to service, even though they don't have the awd and the Toyota has the inline 6 and turbos that are attached to one cartridge?
Okay..let's break it down:
1) active exhaust -> a switch that toggles between two modes, tour and sport. Essentially it pulls a cable in and out. This cable attaches to a lever on the muffler.
Best way to judge this, do you consider HAVING a rear wiper more expensive to maintain?
If it breaks, you leave it in sport. If not, you upgrade the exhaust.
2) Adjustable suspension -> more complicated here. Can switch between tour and sport. The car monitors driving conditions and adjusts suspension constantly. If it breaks, get some aftermarket GABs or something.
I'm sure if we compare the cost OEM shocks on a 3si vs a Supra, it won't be all that different.
3) Automatic Climate Control -> dunno anything about it..nobody has ever complained about it breaking.
I could go on....the point is that most of the doodads can simply be swapped out if we wish. Also, the doodads are pretty reliable. It's rare people have problems.
Also, the doodads don't get in the way of the regular functionality of the car.
If you are using the old saying that "the more stuff you have, the more will break, well, in that case, I would recommend avoiding all Jap cars because they are all much more difficult to work on than a Corvette let's say.
The engine?? Why would it be different? 300ZX people also have parallel twin turbos. Our engine is by far better than theirs.
Supra people have sequential but then they go and upgrade it to a parallel setup or a single setup. Go figure!
We all have the timing belt swap. Our car is infinitely more reliable than the 300ZX. Our car is less reliable than the Supra only because of the tranny.
Then again, find any AWD tranny in the world that holds up to mods well. Even the Skyline had to have theirs beefed up and it STILL goes out on them as well. Same Getrag stuff.
The $5k figure is for a new tranny. Correct? Thanks!
New tranny is $5K...that's right. However, find out the price on a new 300ZX tranny or Supra tranny, I'm sure it will be along the same lines.
We're not dealing with an econo car here.
My point is that you can get refurbished for $2K which is more within reason.
BTW I've torn down my Maxima engine already. Wasn't hard, just time consuming. Just so you know where I'm coming from technically.
I'm not comparing our cars to your cars. They don't fit in the same category.
The biggest problem with Jap sports cars are that the are tightly packed under the hood. All of them have that problem. I don't think ours are more packed than the Supra or the 300ZX.
Anyways, I hope this helped in clarifying our side of the world a bit
.
later,
Amir
Thanks for the reply. But dont' you guys have like 3 or more ecus? engine/tranny/traction control? What I'm asking is aren't the VR4 harder to work on than MOST Japanese sports cars because of the extra doo-dads? So your saying the Supra and 300ZX TT also cost just as much to service, even though they don't have the awd and the Toyota has the inline 6 and turbos that are attached to one cartridge?
Okay..let's break it down:
1) active exhaust -> a switch that toggles between two modes, tour and sport. Essentially it pulls a cable in and out. This cable attaches to a lever on the muffler.
Best way to judge this, do you consider HAVING a rear wiper more expensive to maintain?
If it breaks, you leave it in sport. If not, you upgrade the exhaust.
2) Adjustable suspension -> more complicated here. Can switch between tour and sport. The car monitors driving conditions and adjusts suspension constantly. If it breaks, get some aftermarket GABs or something.
I'm sure if we compare the cost OEM shocks on a 3si vs a Supra, it won't be all that different.
3) Automatic Climate Control -> dunno anything about it..nobody has ever complained about it breaking.
I could go on....the point is that most of the doodads can simply be swapped out if we wish. Also, the doodads are pretty reliable. It's rare people have problems.
Also, the doodads don't get in the way of the regular functionality of the car.
If you are using the old saying that "the more stuff you have, the more will break, well, in that case, I would recommend avoiding all Jap cars because they are all much more difficult to work on than a Corvette let's say.
The engine?? Why would it be different? 300ZX people also have parallel twin turbos. Our engine is by far better than theirs.
Supra people have sequential but then they go and upgrade it to a parallel setup or a single setup. Go figure!
We all have the timing belt swap. Our car is infinitely more reliable than the 300ZX. Our car is less reliable than the Supra only because of the tranny.
Then again, find any AWD tranny in the world that holds up to mods well. Even the Skyline had to have theirs beefed up and it STILL goes out on them as well. Same Getrag stuff.
The $5k figure is for a new tranny. Correct? Thanks!
New tranny is $5K...that's right. However, find out the price on a new 300ZX tranny or Supra tranny, I'm sure it will be along the same lines.
We're not dealing with an econo car here.
My point is that you can get refurbished for $2K which is more within reason.
BTW I've torn down my Maxima engine already. Wasn't hard, just time consuming. Just so you know where I'm coming from technically.
I'm not comparing our cars to your cars. They don't fit in the same category.
The biggest problem with Jap sports cars are that the are tightly packed under the hood. All of them have that problem. I don't think ours are more packed than the Supra or the 300ZX.
Anyways, I hope this helped in clarifying our side of the world a bit
.later,
Amir
09-15-2000, 03:29 PM
#48
Get a Life.
Originally posted by Amir Shaikh
Originally posted by Jeff92se
Thanks for the reply. But dont' you guys have like 3 or more ecus? engine/tranny/traction control? What I'm asking is aren't the VR4 harder to work on than MOST Japanese sports cars because of the extra doo-dads? So your saying the Supra and 300ZX TT also cost just as much to service, even though they don't have the awd and the Toyota has the inline 6 and turbos that are attached to one cartridge?
Okay..let's break it down:
1) active exhaust -> a switch that toggles between two modes, tour and sport. Essentially it pulls a cable in and out. This cable attaches to a lever on the muffler.
Best way to judge this, do you consider HAVING a rear wiper more expensive to maintain?
If it breaks, you leave it in sport. If not, you upgrade the exhaust.
2) Adjustable suspension -> more complicated here. Can switch between tour and sport. The car monitors driving conditions and adjusts suspension constantly. If it breaks, get some aftermarket GABs or something.
I'm sure if we compare the cost OEM shocks on a 3si vs a Supra, it won't be all that different.
3) Automatic Climate Control -> dunno anything about it..nobody has ever complained about it breaking.
I could go on....the point is that most of the doodads can simply be swapped out if we wish. Also, the doodads are pretty reliable. It's rare people have problems.
Also, the doodads don't get in the way of the regular functionality of the car.
If you are using the old saying that "the more stuff you have, the more will break, well, in that case, I would recommend avoiding all Jap cars because they are all much more difficult to work on than a Corvette let's say.
The engine?? Why would it be different? 300ZX people also have parallel twin turbos. Our engine is by far better than theirs.
Supra people have sequential but then they go and upgrade it to a parallel setup or a single setup. Go figure!
We all have the timing belt swap. Our car is infinitely more reliable than the 300ZX. Our car is less reliable than the Supra only because of the tranny.
Then again, find any AWD tranny in the world that holds up to mods well. Even the Skyline had to have theirs beefed up and it STILL goes out on them as well. Same Getrag stuff.
The $5k figure is for a new tranny. Correct? Thanks!
New tranny is $5K...that's right. However, find out the price on a new 300ZX tranny or Supra tranny, I'm sure it will be along the same lines.
We're not dealing with an econo car here.
My point is that you can get refurbished for $2K which is more within reason.
BTW I've torn down my Maxima engine already. Wasn't hard, just time consuming. Just so you know where I'm coming from technically.
I'm not comparing our cars to your cars. They don't fit in the same category.
The biggest problem with Jap sports cars are that the are tightly packed under the hood. All of them have that problem. I don't think ours are more packed than the Supra or the 300ZX.
Anyways, I hope this helped in clarifying our side of the world a bit.
later,
Amir
Originally posted by Jeff92se
Thanks for the reply. But dont' you guys have like 3 or more ecus? engine/tranny/traction control? What I'm asking is aren't the VR4 harder to work on than MOST Japanese sports cars because of the extra doo-dads? So your saying the Supra and 300ZX TT also cost just as much to service, even though they don't have the awd and the Toyota has the inline 6 and turbos that are attached to one cartridge?
Okay..let's break it down:
1) active exhaust -> a switch that toggles between two modes, tour and sport. Essentially it pulls a cable in and out. This cable attaches to a lever on the muffler.
Best way to judge this, do you consider HAVING a rear wiper more expensive to maintain?
If it breaks, you leave it in sport. If not, you upgrade the exhaust.
2) Adjustable suspension -> more complicated here. Can switch between tour and sport. The car monitors driving conditions and adjusts suspension constantly. If it breaks, get some aftermarket GABs or something.
I'm sure if we compare the cost OEM shocks on a 3si vs a Supra, it won't be all that different.
3) Automatic Climate Control -> dunno anything about it..nobody has ever complained about it breaking.
I could go on....the point is that most of the doodads can simply be swapped out if we wish. Also, the doodads are pretty reliable. It's rare people have problems.
Also, the doodads don't get in the way of the regular functionality of the car.
If you are using the old saying that "the more stuff you have, the more will break, well, in that case, I would recommend avoiding all Jap cars because they are all much more difficult to work on than a Corvette let's say.
The engine?? Why would it be different? 300ZX people also have parallel twin turbos. Our engine is by far better than theirs.
Supra people have sequential but then they go and upgrade it to a parallel setup or a single setup. Go figure!
We all have the timing belt swap. Our car is infinitely more reliable than the 300ZX. Our car is less reliable than the Supra only because of the tranny.
Then again, find any AWD tranny in the world that holds up to mods well. Even the Skyline had to have theirs beefed up and it STILL goes out on them as well. Same Getrag stuff.
The $5k figure is for a new tranny. Correct? Thanks!
New tranny is $5K...that's right. However, find out the price on a new 300ZX tranny or Supra tranny, I'm sure it will be along the same lines.
We're not dealing with an econo car here.
My point is that you can get refurbished for $2K which is more within reason.
BTW I've torn down my Maxima engine already. Wasn't hard, just time consuming. Just so you know where I'm coming from technically.
I'm not comparing our cars to your cars. They don't fit in the same category.
The biggest problem with Jap sports cars are that the are tightly packed under the hood. All of them have that problem. I don't think ours are more packed than the Supra or the 300ZX.
Anyways, I hope this helped in clarifying our side of the world a bit
.later,
Amir
Damn.....
09-15-2000, 04:01 PM
#49
Re: Re: Re: Re: Ah...
""I'm sure if we compare the cost OEM shocks on a 3si vs a Supra, it won't be all that different.""
The old Maixma had active supension and the replacement parts were WAY more expensive than non-electrical ones. I have to disagree w/ you on this one. Since Supras/Z don't have this, the Mistu is gotta be way more.
""I could go on....the point is that most of the doodads can simply be swapped out if we wish""
Swapped out w/ what? The same oem part?? Or some kind of aftermarket piece? Or just eliminating it all together?? For intake/exhaust/supspension I can see. But if you just choose not to use the broken doodad because it's expensive to replace, I don't see that as a comparative choice.
"""If you are using the old saying that "the more stuff you have, the more will break, well, in that case, I would recommend avoiding all Jap cars because they are all much more difficult to work on than a Corvette let's say.""
Ah... have you worked on a Corvetter lately? They are just as or more complicated than most Japanese(pls use the whole word here) cars w/ the exception of the ones we're talking about here. You must be a ASC certified mechanic to think Corvettes are easy to work on.
"""The engine?? Why would it be different? 300ZX people also have parallel twin turbos. Our engine is by far better than theirs."""
Ah...Please explain why your tt dohc mitsu engine is FAR better than the Nissan's dohc tt engine?? Nothing I have read from both sites can lead me to believe one is significantly better than the other(nissan/mitsu)
""Supra people have sequential but then they go and upgrade it to a parallel setup or a single setup. Go figure!""
Ah what?? The only reason Supra guys go single is to get into the 500hp+ range. And they can go 600-700hp on stock internals. Modded internals net the 700-800+ hp range. Mitsu or Nissan can't do that very easy.
""We all have the timing belt swap. Our car is infinitely more reliable than the 300ZX. Our car is less reliable than the Supra only because of the tranny.""
Ahh again, where are getting this information?? The Supra engine is super bulletproof. 600hp+ on stock internals?? This engine was orginally designed to go 400hp stock but Toyota turned the boost down for production. Fiction? Well why does the Supra ecu have fuel maps for psi values way over the stock settings? I'm not 100% in the Mitsu engines but please prove me wrong. The last time I checked working on the inline 6 w/ sequential turbos is alot easier to work on than either the 300z or mitsu V6 parallel design. Right or wrong??
""Then again, find any AWD tranny in the world that holds up to mods well. Even the Skyline had to have theirs beefed up and it STILL goes out on them as well. Same Getrag stuff.""
Well, then that makes it more expensive and harder to work on now doesn't it?? But at the same time, I haven't really heard too many problems from the Ford European RS4 Cosworth powered RS4 Escorts or Sierras. The Sierra Cosworths engines are getting 500hp+ fairly commonly.
The reason I mentioned I worked on my engine is to give a baseline of my knowledge. After all this talk, my answer is still not really answered. My point being, w/ all the doodads that Mitsu put into the car, diagnostics must be a nightmare. You mean to tell me it's the same as the Nissan or Supra w/ significantly less electrical equipement?
""The biggest problem with Jap sports cars are that the are tightly packed under the hood. All of them have that problem. I don't think ours are more packed than the Supra or the 300ZX.""
For the 300z, I would agree but look at the inline 6 sequential turbo set-up on the Supra. Alot easier to get at the the Mitsu or Nissan setups.
This thread is getting messy. I hope we can keep it cordial!
09-15-2000, 04:32 PM
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 675
Yes please get a clue...
I hear that I am getting flack for my comments about VR-4s on some Forum? Did they only take the negative and not the positive comments? Where is this forum? As an X mitsu employee (I quit that POS car company and went to work for another POS company FORD. LOL )
I have had many experiances with many different VR-4s, and most show poor older age symtoms. I count 14 Rebuilt VR-4 motors alone in the tri county area in 3 years. Now either there are some ignorant VR-4 owners or we are dealing with a gremlin car. My vote is either way. I enjoy the total concept of the VR-4. It drives like a bat out of hell!! And that is the best part. Nothing like swinging into a negative banked corner with a VR-4. BAD ***. There I said it again, must be true! HA
I encourage the competition between manufactures and owners. But all this grand standing is worthless. I PREFERE A ZTT and non sequential set up. Now if there are VR-4 owners out there that keep their cars in great condition, more power to yah. as for ZTTs being week. Lets remember the car that was and is 10 years ahead of it's time. THE ZTT. And if I'm not mistaken There is still a good bit of Research and Development being done on Zs. I don't remember the last time I saw any thing new or exciting for a VR-4. Even though it does deserve some attention. Would be nice to see SOME more ROWDY TT cars on the streets other than a SoupDawgTT. not mentioning lowering the camaro/mustang/honda ratio!!
Seriously, what were the production numbers on the VR-4s?
I remember when they had 5spds! fun car, just not MY personal favorite. thanks for listening.
) I have had many experiances with many different VR-4s, and most show poor older age symtoms. I count 14 Rebuilt VR-4 motors alone in the tri county area in 3 years. Now either there are some ignorant VR-4 owners or we are dealing with a gremlin car. My vote is either way. I enjoy the total concept of the VR-4. It drives like a bat out of hell!! And that is the best part. Nothing like swinging into a negative banked corner with a VR-4. BAD ***. There I said it again, must be true! HA
I encourage the competition between manufactures and owners. But all this grand standing is worthless. I PREFERE A ZTT and non sequential set up. Now if there are VR-4 owners out there that keep their cars in great condition, more power to yah. as for ZTTs being week. Lets remember the car that was and is 10 years ahead of it's time. THE ZTT. And if I'm not mistaken There is still a good bit of Research and Development being done on Zs. I don't remember the last time I saw any thing new or exciting for a VR-4. Even though it does deserve some attention. Would be nice to see SOME more ROWDY TT cars on the streets other than a SoupDawgTT. not mentioning lowering the camaro/mustang/honda ratio!!
Seriously, what were the production numbers on the VR-4s?
I remember when they had 5spds! fun car, just not MY personal favorite. thanks for listening.
09-15-2000, 04:40 PM
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 380
turbo $
Originally posted by Turbo95Max
the custom downpipe on my 4th gen is really trick. Alot of people see it and then go "oh that sucks, your turbo only runs on the front bank of cylinders" then as they look under it they see the second pipe,wastegate and the nice welds. I want to sell this downpipe in the future for a more improved downpipe, Moving the turbo a few inches back. FOr an extra 30-40hp, i dont think it would be worth it to spend so much money for a turbo. Maybe juss get a NOS kit or invest in some good all motor work. Good luck man
the custom downpipe on my 4th gen is really trick. Alot of people see it and then go "oh that sucks, your turbo only runs on the front bank of cylinders" then as they look under it they see the second pipe,wastegate and the nice welds. I want to sell this downpipe in the future for a more improved downpipe, Moving the turbo a few inches back. FOr an extra 30-40hp, i dont think it would be worth it to spend so much money for a turbo. Maybe juss get a NOS kit or invest in some good all motor work. Good luck man
09-18-2000, 06:26 PM
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ah...
Sorry...I don't have time to deal with the rest.
""Then again, find any AWD tranny in the world that holds up to mods well. Even the Skyline had to have theirs beefed up and it STILL goes out on them as well. Same Getrag stuff.""
Well, then that makes it more expensive and harder to work on now doesn't it?? But at the same time, I haven't really heard too many problems from the Ford European RS4 Cosworth powered RS4 Escorts or Sierras. The Sierra Cosworths engines are getting 500hp+ fairly commonly.
Harder to work on implies that the car is more difficult to fix in the sense that a task requires more labour.
I am saying that our cars do not require any more labour to fix than any other Japanese sports car. We might have more things that can POSSIBLY break of course..more doodads. But that doesn't mean that our cars are more expensive to maintain. Why?? Because the stuff doesn't really break.
The only reason you here us complaining about the tranny because before there were absolutely no parts available. A $2 seal required a tranny replacement because you couldn't get the seal.
I don't know enough about the reliability of the Cosworth nor the Impreza's nor the Lancer Evolution. The Lancer Ev probably use the same DSM setup so I would assume the same reliability. Nobody complains about them either which leads me to question whether at some point people just accept the problems.
Kind of like a Ferrari...nobody ever talks about their problems but their quality sucks and maintenance is ridiculous. Again, this is from what I hear..I never actually asked a Ferrari owner if this is true.
I know that the DSM driveline gives way around the 500+ HP range. That's mainly due to drag racing where people do 6000 RPM dumps.
The reason I mentioned I worked on my engine is to give a baseline of my knowledge. After all this talk, my answer is still not really answered. My point being, w/ all the doodads that Mitsu put into the car, diagnostics must be a nightmare. You mean to tell me it's the same as the Nissan or Supra w/ significantly less electrical equipement?
The electronics are not interrelated so it isn't a problem. If the active exhaust goes out, you won't get a mid-RPM stumble. You get what I mean? Each section is isolated so there is no relationship.
The engine management on a Mitsu is not more difficult than one on a 300ZX or a Supra.
The doodads are an add on, not a integral part of the system.
""The biggest problem with Jap sports cars are that the are tightly packed under the hood. All of them have that problem. I don't think ours are more packed than the Supra or the 300ZX.""
For the 300z, I would agree but look at the inline 6 sequential turbo set-up on the Supra. Alot easier to get at the the Mitsu or Nissan setups.
It gets a lot cleaner when they go with a single turbo setup with a single front mount intercooler.
Aside from that, you can't exactly walk inside the hood of a Supra. I guess the best way to compare would be to find out how much those guys pay for their timing belt swaps and other maintenance.
We have to get quantitative and not base everything on conjecture and opinion as we are doing.
Oh yeah...our plugs are a ***** to get at...the intake manifold goes over them...yes that is more expensive than a 300ZX or Supra TT to maintain.
This thread is getting messy. I hope we can keep it cordial!
It will always be cordial on my part.
Anyways, have fun Maximizing...maybe I'll run into a couple on the highway or something.
later,
Amir
""Then again, find any AWD tranny in the world that holds up to mods well. Even the Skyline had to have theirs beefed up and it STILL goes out on them as well. Same Getrag stuff.""
Well, then that makes it more expensive and harder to work on now doesn't it?? But at the same time, I haven't really heard too many problems from the Ford European RS4 Cosworth powered RS4 Escorts or Sierras. The Sierra Cosworths engines are getting 500hp+ fairly commonly.
Harder to work on implies that the car is more difficult to fix in the sense that a task requires more labour.
I am saying that our cars do not require any more labour to fix than any other Japanese sports car. We might have more things that can POSSIBLY break of course..more doodads. But that doesn't mean that our cars are more expensive to maintain. Why?? Because the stuff doesn't really break.
The only reason you here us complaining about the tranny because before there were absolutely no parts available. A $2 seal required a tranny replacement because you couldn't get the seal.
I don't know enough about the reliability of the Cosworth nor the Impreza's nor the Lancer Evolution. The Lancer Ev probably use the same DSM setup so I would assume the same reliability. Nobody complains about them either which leads me to question whether at some point people just accept the problems.
Kind of like a Ferrari...nobody ever talks about their problems but their quality sucks and maintenance is ridiculous. Again, this is from what I hear..I never actually asked a Ferrari owner if this is true.
I know that the DSM driveline gives way around the 500+ HP range. That's mainly due to drag racing where people do 6000 RPM dumps.
The reason I mentioned I worked on my engine is to give a baseline of my knowledge. After all this talk, my answer is still not really answered. My point being, w/ all the doodads that Mitsu put into the car, diagnostics must be a nightmare. You mean to tell me it's the same as the Nissan or Supra w/ significantly less electrical equipement?
The electronics are not interrelated so it isn't a problem. If the active exhaust goes out, you won't get a mid-RPM stumble. You get what I mean? Each section is isolated so there is no relationship.
The engine management on a Mitsu is not more difficult than one on a 300ZX or a Supra.
The doodads are an add on, not a integral part of the system.
""The biggest problem with Jap sports cars are that the are tightly packed under the hood. All of them have that problem. I don't think ours are more packed than the Supra or the 300ZX.""
For the 300z, I would agree but look at the inline 6 sequential turbo set-up on the Supra. Alot easier to get at the the Mitsu or Nissan setups.
It gets a lot cleaner when they go with a single turbo setup with a single front mount intercooler.
Aside from that, you can't exactly walk inside the hood of a Supra. I guess the best way to compare would be to find out how much those guys pay for their timing belt swaps and other maintenance.
We have to get quantitative and not base everything on conjecture and opinion as we are doing.
Oh yeah...our plugs are a ***** to get at...the intake manifold goes over them...yes that is more expensive than a 300ZX or Supra TT to maintain.
This thread is getting messy. I hope we can keep it cordial!
It will always be cordial on my part
.Anyways, have fun Maximizing...maybe I'll run into a couple on the highway or something
.later,
Amir
10-15-2000, 11:31 PM
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Sorry Amir Shaikh!
The Getrag tranny is only $3200. The transfer case is an additional $500, the clutch nears $350, and installation is near $400 - even combined, still well under $5k.
Not that it is cheap…
! And yes, the Getrag AWD tranny is a big pos - but no worse than any other AWD tranny with a 320 bhp load!
How are the Max trannies? Do Maxima's have LSDs in front, specifically the 92 SE?
Not that it is cheap…
! And yes, the Getrag AWD tranny is a big pos - but no worse than any other AWD tranny with a 320 bhp load!How are the Max trannies? Do Maxima's have LSDs in front, specifically the 92 SE?
10-16-2000, 12:48 AM
#55
Turtle turtle... Moderator
Thread Starter
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wow
never thought my thread would start all this flaming and get like 1500 views.
I dont care if those guys belive me or not, cause i know its true and if you could ever find that owner, im sure he would admit to being smoked by me.
I think the VR-4 is a great car, i love the AWD and all the electronics it has. But i dont feel its a very well built car and i dont think its reliable.(thats my opinion) Ive been in the automotive field for 4 years. I think the VR4 is heavy, i consider anything over 3000 pounds heavy. The Maxima is heavy too.
Guys hate how everyone is always calling the VR-4 heavy, but guys saying how the Maxima is in same class as Civics and stuff too, your looking down on the Maxima too so what difference is it?
never thought my thread would start all this flaming and get like 1500 views.
I dont care if those guys belive me or not, cause i know its true and if you could ever find that owner, im sure he would admit to being smoked by me.
I think the VR-4 is a great car, i love the AWD and all the electronics it has. But i dont feel its a very well built car and i dont think its reliable.(thats my opinion) Ive been in the automotive field for 4 years. I think the VR4 is heavy, i consider anything over 3000 pounds heavy. The Maxima is heavy too.
Guys hate how everyone is always calling the VR-4 heavy, but guys saying how the Maxima is in same class as Civics and stuff too, your looking down on the Maxima too so what difference is it?
10-16-2000, 12:57 AM
#56
Turtle turtle... Moderator
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When the Z first came out. it was considered 10 years ahead of its time. Auto climate control, HICAS 4 wheel steering, DIS coil over plug ignition, twin turbo setup(notsequential) and whatever else i left out.
My friend has a 600hp 300ZX. He spent a nice wad of cash on the car but that thing turns hella heads and smokes 99% of the cars on the street. Latest kills were an M5 and a Porsche 911. Pulled to about 175mph and car still felt strong.
My friend has a 600hp 300ZX. He spent a nice wad of cash on the car but that thing turns hella heads and smokes 99% of the cars on the street. Latest kills were an M5 and a Porsche 911. Pulled to about 175mph and car still felt strong.
10-16-2000, 10:59 AM
#57
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,138
Originally posted by Turbo95Max
wow
never thought my thread would start all this flaming and get like 1500 views.
I dont care if those guys belive me or not, cause i know its true and if you could ever find that owner, im sure he would admit to being smoked by me.
I think the VR-4 is a great car, i love the AWD and all the electronics it has. But i dont feel its a very well built car and i dont think its reliable.(thats my opinion) Ive been in the automotive field for 4 years. I think the VR4 is heavy, i consider anything over 3000 pounds heavy. The Maxima is heavy too.
Guys hate how everyone is always calling the VR-4 heavy, but guys saying how the Maxima is in same class as Civics and stuff too, your looking down on the Maxima too so what difference is it?
wow
never thought my thread would start all this flaming and get like 1500 views.
I dont care if those guys belive me or not, cause i know its true and if you could ever find that owner, im sure he would admit to being smoked by me.
I think the VR-4 is a great car, i love the AWD and all the electronics it has. But i dont feel its a very well built car and i dont think its reliable.(thats my opinion) Ive been in the automotive field for 4 years. I think the VR4 is heavy, i consider anything over 3000 pounds heavy. The Maxima is heavy too.
Guys hate how everyone is always calling the VR-4 heavy, but guys saying how the Maxima is in same class as Civics and stuff too, your looking down on the Maxima too so what difference is it?
Jim
10-16-2000, 11:10 AM
#58
Re: Sorry Amir Shaikh!
92-94 Se maximas have viscous liquid limited slip differential. With over 800 members and xxx lurkers, I have only seen 2-3 maunal tranny problems.
With over 800 members and xxx lurkers, I have only seen 2-3 maunal tranny problems.
Originally posted by Telionis
The Getrag tranny is only $3200. The transfer case is an additional $500, the clutch nears $350, and installation is near $400 - even combined, still well under $5k.
Not that it is cheap…! And yes, the Getrag AWD tranny is a big pos - but no worse than any other AWD tranny with a 320 bhp load!
How are the Max trannies? Do Maxima's have LSDs in front, specifically the 92 SE?
The Getrag tranny is only $3200. The transfer case is an additional $500, the clutch nears $350, and installation is near $400 - even combined, still well under $5k.
Not that it is cheap…
! And yes, the Getrag AWD tranny is a big pos - but no worse than any other AWD tranny with a 320 bhp load!How are the Max trannies? Do Maxima's have LSDs in front, specifically the 92 SE?
10-27-2000, 06:27 PM
#61
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Posts: n/a
3K VR-4 kill?
WTF is going on here, a turbo maxima vs a VR-4? first of all, I have never seen so many ignorant people in my whole life, first off, why dragrace a ****ing maxima? If you could all see the people gathered around me laughing thier asses off, or the people pissed off for you trashing on mitsu 3K's, dont try to make that maxima into a sports car now. As for 300Z's being better than 3k's, well, lets talk when I pull through exits at 75, or when my 5500rpm launch leaves your sorry *** at the line wondering WTF just happened. Im really disapointed, you people beat a fast car for once in your life and it goes straight to your head. Lol
10-27-2000, 09:43 PM
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,069
hmm
whoa - this is just too cool ... as for all the tension btwn maxima owners and 3kgt owners - i think it stems from the fact that no other mitsu car besides the Galant VR4 ( a really cool car but hardly seen on the road ) and 3kgt can whoop on the max ? - i do dig the 3kgt's but cmon they arent any competition for a 3ZTT - i think you guys have your attitude adjuster turned on upity instead of chill mode .... any GT's in the albany area - id love to see your GT and BS about cops =)
10-27-2000, 09:56 PM
#63
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Hey do you have pics of the custom lignts?
NO way is a stock 300Z faster! 
Haha, J/K. According to the numbers the VR4 should win to well past quarter, but those are new cars... in old cars you can never tell.
AT ANY RATE, hey Andrew91SE, do you have pics? Want to sell them? I think I found Dad's Christmas present (that and an exhaust)! He has a 1992 SE.
Yo WTFisgoingon!, come on, after the whole post about leaving this topic alone on 3Si, you come to their forum?
This however:
Is the damn truth about some of you guys!
(by the way, disappointed has two 'p's).
[Man you guys got a lot of smiles... it has nothing to do with Maximas or 3Ses, but I got to say it:
huhu pawpaw got a new 5.0! 
)
[Edited by Telionis on 10-27-2000 at 11:58 PM]
Haha, J/K. According to the numbers the VR4 should win to well past quarter, but those are new cars... in old cars you can never tell. AT ANY RATE, hey Andrew91SE, do you have pics? Want to sell them? I think I found Dad's Christmas present (that and an exhaust)! He has a 1992 SE.
Yo WTFisgoingon!, come on, after the whole post about leaving this topic alone on 3Si, you come to their forum?
This however:
Originally posted by WTFisgoingon!
Im really disapointed, you people beat a fast car for once in your life and it goes straight to your head.
Im really disapointed, you people beat a fast car for once in your life and it goes straight to your head.
(by the way, disappointed has two 'p's)
.[Man you guys got a lot of smiles... it has nothing to do with Maximas or 3Ses, but I got to say it:
huhu pawpaw got a new 5.0! )[Edited by Telionis on 10-27-2000 at 11:58 PM]
10-27-2000, 10:12 PM
#64
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Posts: n/a
Uhhhh....
Originally posted by Stillnmax
i think it stems from the fact that no other mitsu car besides the Galant VR4 ( a really cool car but hardly seen on the road ) and 3kgt can whoop on the max ?
i think it stems from the fact that no other mitsu car besides the Galant VR4 ( a really cool car but hardly seen on the road ) and 3kgt can whoop on the max ?
WHAT? 1.
You got us! That is it, Maxima's can smack anything besides the Galant VR4, and 3kgt... uh wait, we drive 3kgts!!!! Why the hell do we care if you can kill a Montero 
? 2. Motor Trend put the GS-T at 60mph in 6.4, quarter in 15.0 @ 94.7 VS. 60mph in 6.6, quarter in 15.2 @ 92.4 for a Maxima SE. The GS-T will put a "whoopen" on a Maxima too, we not really!, but it will probably win - with the same margin of victory as a Galant VR4 (same thing you know).
3.
What the hell kind of statement is that? No other Mitsu car? Well then, I bet all you Maxima owners are pissed off at us 3S owners, just no other Nissan car besides the Skyline and 300ZX can whoop a Galant VR4! Isn't the Maxima the fastest car sold by Nissan in the US today, the second fastest ever sold in the US (? 
Z31 300ZXs turbos ?) anyway? It should, I hope it does, put a whoopen on any Galant!4. No offence but, "whoopen?
"
10-27-2000, 11:31 PM
#65
Turtle turtle... Moderator
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dam
so much hate and **** talkin in car enthusists these days. Why cant we all get along and enjoy cars for what they are? I dont like domestic cars very much but i dont go bad mouthing it much and hating on it. Thats why bikes are badd. Not as much hate and if you see another rider most of the time you say wassup to each other. The only rivary ive seen is between Harleys and Sport bikes..
so much hate and **** talkin in car enthusists these days. Why cant we all get along and enjoy cars for what they are? I dont like domestic cars very much but i dont go bad mouthing it much and hating on it. Thats why bikes are badd. Not as much hate and if you see another rider most of the time you say wassup to each other. The only rivary ive seen is between Harleys and Sport bikes..
10-28-2000, 10:53 AM
#66
Re: Uhhhh....
Originally posted by Telionis
WHAT?
1. You got us! That is it, Maxima's can smack anything besides the Galant VR4, and 3kgt... uh wait, we drive 3kgts!!!! Why the hell do we care if you can kill a Montero ?
2. Motor Trend put the GS-T at 60mph in 6.4, quarter in 15.0 @ 94.7 VS. 60mph in 6.6, quarter in 15.2 @ 92.4 for a Maxima SE. The GS-T will put a "whoopen" on a Maxima too, we not really!, but it will probably win - with the same margin of victory as a Galant VR4 (same thing you know).
3. What the hell kind of statement is that? No other Mitsu car? Well then, I bet all you Maxima owners are pissed off at us 3S owners, just no other Nissan car besides the Skyline and 300ZX can whoop a Galant VR4! Isn't the Maxima the fastest car sold by Nissan in the US today, the second fastest ever sold in the US (? Z31 300ZXs turbos ?) anyway? It should, I hope it does, put a whoopen on any Galant!
4. No offence but, "whoopen?"
funny... i walked my friend's galant vr4 yesterday night. sure, he had a car or two on me off the line, but by 100 i had a car on him. his car wasn't stock, by the way.
Originally posted by Stillnmax
i think it stems from the fact that no other mitsu car besides the Galant VR4 ( a really cool car but hardly seen on the road ) and 3kgt can whoop on the max ?
i think it stems from the fact that no other mitsu car besides the Galant VR4 ( a really cool car but hardly seen on the road ) and 3kgt can whoop on the max ?
WHAT? 1.
You got us! That is it, Maxima's can smack anything besides the Galant VR4, and 3kgt... uh wait, we drive 3kgts!!!! Why the hell do we care if you can kill a Montero ? 2. Motor Trend put the GS-T at 60mph in 6.4, quarter in 15.0 @ 94.7 VS. 60mph in 6.6, quarter in 15.2 @ 92.4 for a Maxima SE. The GS-T will put a "whoopen" on a Maxima too, we not really!, but it will probably win - with the same margin of victory as a Galant VR4 (same thing you know).
3.
What the hell kind of statement is that? No other Mitsu car? Well then, I bet all you Maxima owners are pissed off at us 3S owners, just no other Nissan car besides the Skyline and 300ZX can whoop a Galant VR4! Isn't the Maxima the fastest car sold by Nissan in the US today, the second fastest ever sold in the US (? Z31 300ZXs turbos ?) anyway? It should, I hope it does, put a whoopen on any Galant!4. No offence but, "whoopen?
"funny... i walked my friend's galant vr4 yesterday night. sure, he had a car or two on me off the line, but by 100 i had a car on him. his car wasn't stock, by the way.
10-28-2000, 03:55 PM
#67
oh boy not this **** again...can't we just let it go...stock for stock a vr4 is no match for the max we all know this...any car can be made fast...it just so happens that this luxury car van be fast with some time and money...you vr4 guys have to respect that and swallow it...i would love to get some of these turbo'd and sc'd maxes and the vr4 guys together to just end this dispute...this is the second time in what, 6 months that this battle has risen...just let it go already...
thats my 2 pennies...
thats my 2 pennies...
10-28-2000, 09:26 PM
#68
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Comments
sx7r - Sweet! If you look, I said I expect the Galant to win, but I'm rooting for the Maxima! Good job.
Chris91SE - I know you mean Galant VR4s right... "stock VR4 is no match for a Maxima?" Or perhaps you got it reversed.
What about "it just so happens that this luxury car van be fast with some time and money..." Isn't that what everyone at 3Si suggested, I disagree though when it comes to Maximas. They are 'fast' stock, a CRX can be made 'fast with time and money.'
And as for, "i would love to get some of these turbo'd and sc'd maxes and the vr4 guys together." Modded VS stock isn't quite fair, there isn't a standard for turbo Maxes, each one will be different. If you want to play that way, afterwards we can get some GT399ed VR4s to race some stock Maximas... I don't think anyone ever suggested that there is no Maxima faster than a VR4 PERIOD!, if they did they are idiots.
Turbo95Max - DAMN RIGHT!
Chris91SE - I know you mean Galant VR4s
right... "stock VR4 is no match for a Maxima?" Or perhaps you got it reversed. What about "it just so happens that this luxury car van be fast with some time and money..." Isn't that what everyone at 3Si suggested, I disagree though when it comes to Maximas. They are 'fast' stock, a CRX can be made 'fast with time and money.'
And as for, "i would love to get some of these turbo'd and sc'd maxes and the vr4 guys together." Modded VS stock isn't quite fair, there isn't a standard for turbo Maxes, each one will be different. If you want to play that way, afterwards we can get some GT399ed VR4s to race some stock Maximas... I don't think anyone ever suggested that there is no Maxima faster than a VR4 PERIOD!, if they did they are idiots.
Turbo95Max - DAMN RIGHT!
10-29-2000, 12:16 AM
#69
Turtle turtle... Moderator
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lets all sell our Max's and get sport bikes!! hehe, anyways, ive driven modded 3000GT's and their nice cars, stock or modded. I think its a great car. However i dont like working on it and i dont think its that realiable of a car. Thats my opinion from my experince and working in the field. If you disagree thats fine, there can be 10 cars from the factory. 3 break down all the time, 4 are decent, and 3 never break. people have different experinces with car companies. Juss cause say 1 family owned a Mazda, it kept breaking down, that doesnt mean the whole manufacter sucks and all Mazda's are gonna be like that....ok, starting to babble
10-29-2000, 12:28 AM
#70
Originally posted by Turbo95Max
lets all sell our Max's and get sport bikes!! hehe, anyways, ive driven modded 3000GT's and their nice cars, stock or modded. I think its a great car. However i dont like working on it and i dont think its that realiable of a car. Thats my opinion from my experince and working in the field. If you disagree thats fine, there can be 10 cars from the factory. 3 break down all the time, 4 are decent, and 3 never break. people have different experinces with car companies. Juss cause say 1 family owned a Mazda, it kept breaking down, that doesnt mean the whole manufacter sucks and all Mazda's are gonna be like that....ok, starting to babble
lets all sell our Max's and get sport bikes!! hehe, anyways, ive driven modded 3000GT's and their nice cars, stock or modded. I think its a great car. However i dont like working on it and i dont think its that realiable of a car. Thats my opinion from my experince and working in the field. If you disagree thats fine, there can be 10 cars from the factory. 3 break down all the time, 4 are decent, and 3 never break. people have different experinces with car companies. Juss cause say 1 family owned a Mazda, it kept breaking down, that doesnt mean the whole manufacter sucks and all Mazda's are gonna be like that....ok, starting to babble
but of course i could be wrong.. hey. man stop the hatin' i only read the last page.
10-29-2000, 08:07 AM
#72
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 410
Adjustable suspension
What kind of adjustable suspensions were the third gens and 3000GT's using? Just electrical valving on the shocks? I remember seeing some fully adjustable systems, but they were $$$$ and too much to add to anything but vehicles that were already pretty pricey.
It was an incredible range of adjustment though- from totally locking out the travel to having almost no resistance at all. The road demo was impressive, too: a course full of nasty bumps, and the car stayed perfectly level the whole time.
It was an incredible range of adjustment though- from totally locking out the travel to having almost no resistance at all. The road demo was impressive, too: a course full of nasty bumps, and the car stayed perfectly level the whole time.
10-30-2000, 05:18 AM
#73
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 269
wow
it's nice to see some discussion.....most of the posts are very informative and cordial. The 3kgt vr-4 is a great car imo, i almost bought a 93 a couple weeks ago for a play car as a matter of fact. amazingly it ran really smooth unlike most others i had looked at. I have since decided to wait because i will be buying something new next year. I don't know about the reliability of the 3kgt's engine but I have owned 2 eclipse turbos......a '93 and a '97, and i have to say that after modding and dragging them for a couple years each the engines were in bad shape....while my max is still running like new.....just my.02
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