Ok, where to begin... this will be a mutil-part thread. I will not be able to write the whole thing at once so I will just start my story.


I took tuesday thru friday off and I had saturday to burn. SO I had plenty of time.

Day 1 tuesday I leave ATL and get to KY.

I see my turbo, I should have said something then, but I just drove 300 miles and I felt as if there was nothing I oculd do. Here is the pic
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/bags142/v...c=ph%26.view=t

So that looks like a NEW turbo huh???? But again I just got there and felt trapped so I shut my mouth. More on this to come.

So I check into a hotel. The shop tells me they are gonna try and have me done by thursday. Cool.

Wed comes around and at the end of the day the shop tells me my car will be ready by noon the next day, thursday. Fine.

Thursday I check out of the hiotel and go to the shop around noon. My car is NO where near ready.

Thursday 10 PM I leave KY. By the time my car was done I was just happy ot be leaving and I did not look it over. BTW The shop that did HAL's car DID mine.

ABout an hour into my trip hal calls me and tells me the shop left the crankcase pipe from my CAI hooked up. Why did they use that pipe anyway? Here is a pic http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/bags142/v...c=ph%26.view=t

So that is bad. Anyway I drive back to ATL. I go out to my car the next day and there is OIL all over my bumper. Hmm.. must be from the crancase hose. Well I go to autozone and put a rubber cap on it. GHETTO, and it should have never left there like that.

Oh, and honestly I did not know much about turbo cars, not anything worthwhile. So I have learned alot in the past 2 months.

Well anyway as I drive my cra in the day light there is smoke coming from the muffler and oil is POOLING in my muffler tip. And my car starts overheating in stop and go traffic.

Call hal, we think it will burn off in a day or two. I take my car to a friends and jack it up.. what do I see.. this pic http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/bags533/v...c=ph%26.view=t

Also I find a hole where a bolt should be and a bolt not in correctly, due to the weld being to big.

yes boys and girls BLOWN turbo. So I call hal and he talks to the shop. I try and get a new tubo to no avail. So I send it out on Monday. Being told I will have it back BY friday. I see the turbo the following monday. I paid for overnight shipping and was told by the shop I would be reimbursed. That was Late march, nothing YET.

Ok, so get the new turbo in. Smoke and oil in the muffler, well I think it's residual again.

I take my car to a performance shop to see about some small upgrades. they tell me how bad a steel line is and that my rebuilt turbo is leaking again due to the oil line sagging and going inot the pan at an upward angle. See this pic http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/bags142/v...c=ph%26.view=t

So now I am MAD. The shop tells me how bad it is to use a steel oil inlet line and that my oil return line is smaller than 8.. which is bad. Ok, I take my car to a few other places and they basicly say the same thing. And they say that the tubo may not need a rebuild if the oil line issue is corected.

Also one of my wiring harnesses near the turbo is melted, the outside. I never heard of hal having this issue, but I do. ANd I fixed it myself.

Also I learn that NO flex section for the down pipe is BAD. I have a new one that I paid for.

I pay and have the oil line done in the upper pan. I get a new oil pan for the bottom of the car. I was told I would be reimburssed for some of that.. Nothing yet. That was Mid april.

Mzmtg, sees my car and posts a thread with pics. Hal sees some of the issues and calls me, he finds out the turbo is NOT new. Well I can't get a new turbo and MY turbo is LEAKING again.


Ok, so the turbo does not stop leaking, rebuild #2 is done. At least I get the turbo back in the same week.


ok, I also have an exhaust leak I was looking for. I find it. It is leaking at the Y-pipe flange that connects to the headers. Wanna know why??

The little groove in the flange on the outside of the hole where the metal gasket goes... is NOT there. It is flat. And the exhaust gasket that was used for left and right is leaking. I take the gaskets off and you can see black marks where the exhaust gases were escaping.

ALso I forgot to mention that my FMU is held on with plastic zip ties.

So I try all kinds of things to fix this, nothing has worked yet to date. Oh did I mention my turbo is leaking for a 3rd time???

SO there is PART of my story. Now you see why some of us are mad. I have more to tell and more pics.

Now, to hals defense. I did not bring up the exhaust issue to be fixed by hal. I also bought header wrap which hal said would be sent to me, still waiting, but the shop had the wrong address. Hal HAS been polite and courtesous. But, I do not think he has done what he or the shop should have in taking care of me.

If I paid the shop I would be knee deep in there as* , but I paid hal.

I did not bring up a few other issues to be fixed by hal. WHY?

I want a new turbo. PERIOD. Plain and simple. I am willing to cut my losses at a NEW turbo. Hal did not know this till now. I have been beating around the bush about it with him.

SO these are some of the things that have been going on for almoost 2 MONTHS. SO you thought you knew the whole story, there's more to come.

Sit back and marinate on that for a little while.

edited for spelling and grammer.. I am sure I missed more.

 

and so it begins

 

Being courteous on the phone is not the same as having good customer service...

 

Kirk(bags)'s kit has had issues that I was not used to, and I do/have apologized for that - and have attempted to work with him on these. I was not available to be at the shop when bags kit was installed and I do regret this, as I did not know the things that would come from that. Working now even more remotely from California of course has not made it any easier, but is no excuse - which is why almost everyday I am on the phone with KY shop and often Kirk also, trying to make everything right. Also, not that this helps the situation at all, but just to let others rest easier, I have discontinued the use of that shop (which had previously given me great service) because of this incident - again, no excuse or anything regarding bags car etc.

Also, quote Bags533 from this post "...at a NEW turbo. Hal did not know this till now. I have been beating around the bush about it..." , in situations like this it would be best to say that maybe in voice when I called kirk(bags) on the phone yesterday, or even email instead of in a thread on a chat forum on the internet.

Any further comments, questions or suggestions can be addressed via email hal@hlh0501.com, thanks.

 

Do we really need another thread on this? Bags, did you not already have a thread in the turbo section with pictures and everything? Why do we have to keep airing dirty laundry. You and Dixit need to take it up with Hal in private if you need satisfaction.

 

actualy you are wrong. Bags never had a thread. Ben created one. Kirk has every right to tell his story, the more people know about stuff the better. How would you feel about the fact of all the mods you may have bought had some kind of flaw and no one told you before hand.

This is not airing dirty laundry.. this is buyer beware

 

Exactly.

So far neither of the actual turbo owners have come out to start personal flame wars. Each has just stated their situation for others to digest. Not surprisingly, these have quickly degenerated into flame wars between totally uninvolved parties. But, the original posters' intentions seem to be in the right place.

 

Well, maybe I am different because I read the other threads. And I see your point about buyer beware but if you are stupid enough to buy one of these turbo kits now, after seeing the various threads already on here, then you deserve what you get. I just think one more thread rehashing everything that was already said is overkill. The thread will make its run and be gone in a week. Are you going to make it a sticky? Put it in vendor recommendations? Honestly, I was contemplating Harold's kit (since my car would need 150% fabrication anyways) but what killed it for me was NOT the crappy work or the problems everyone is having...it was his response to try and clear his name. So go ahead, start this thread up and let it grow to 15 pages like the others. I truly love those threads but to be honest, I don't see the point in this case.

 

what you don't know is that Bags was always ready to post.. Dixit just posted first, so this is not a .. ok Dixit posted.. let me post situation.

even now qnpark says he has 0 turbo problems, however he is selling his car i guess he just decided to move up to something bigger and better after having his turbo for less than 2 months huh?

 

Well, I think from reading this thread...

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....hreadid=206034

I got a good idea what Bags had to say and what his problems were. It came before Dixits post. Oh well. I will have some entertainment and work today. And selling a car after going through the trouble of getting a turbo kit put on there...reporting NO problems? is right...

 

Just keep in mind this is not about threads. Kirk is doing the right thing and he should get a new turbo like he paid for, not a used one.

 

Just know that I have sat on my post for weeks. I am trying to give hal the benefit of time. I understnad his situation.

I kept quiet about ALL of my issues. As stated MZMTG posted what he saw/heard. I am posting what IS.

And as said before the more informed peolpe are the better decision you can make.

I wish I would have seen threads like this beofre I bought.

NOTHING against hal, I would have sat on it.

But more to come.. and dixit's post is HIS not mine. And yes we have the same person who BOUGHT the items, but we had 2 different shops install them.

And yes dixit and I share some of the same problems. But when people, not you, bash dixit and say this or that without all the info... It made me mad.

So I posted up some of my info to try and show some people what is what. And for $4000 I agree with sprint it should not be a headache.

But, oh well... I'll egt some of the other items I have been dealing with later.

And as stated before I have been dealing with hal on some of the issues, the others this will be the first he heard of. But, when looking at my choices, I choose a $1000 turbo over a few hours and $300.

 

Chiming in..............

As I stated in my other thread, I personally saw Kirk's car Sunday when he, JAY25, and I met up for a little get together since I just moved to ATL. http://www.bigdogjonx.com/fullpics/bagsturbo Those are more pics of Kirk's car to show you the issues he has been through.

All I will say is this, if anything I think his car is in worse shape than mine. Hes got a bracket welded to a pipe that is near the turbo which just plain doesnt cut it or serve any purpose. Melted wires, turbo rebuilds, etc. Its just plain rediculous. And he still cant get the turbo above 3-4psi. He has put MUCH work and money into it after the kit to fix the problems.

This is NOT how it is supposed to be. We did not order a kit that requires constant money to be feed into it to keep it running.

Dixit

 

Kirk, I personally think that you should go through your whole hit and reconfigure that turbo all together. Isn't your MAF going to melt?

 

I can’t help but think that there will be bugs to work out with a custom kit…but in these two cases its just sloppy workmanship from jump. After spending that amount of money on a turbo kit my tolerance level will be very low.

 

What do you guys want out of posting these threads about all the problems your turbo setups are having? Is it for leverage against Hal to get him to act on rectifying the situation? Or are u just trying to let everyone know that the setup you have is very sh1tty and you are p1ssed about it? Believe me, I feel for ya'll. Nothing p1sses me off more than paying a large amount of money for something that isn't what I thought it was going to be or what I thought I asked for. ****...I hate going to the damn drive thru and ordering 'no cheese, no onions' and I get home and bite right into some onions. The turbo 'kits' you guys bought are basically prototypes. You know why Hal's setup works right and looks better? Because he has had months and months to work on it and get it right. The fact that it is HIS car may be another reason he paid a little extra attention to detail. I don't know...I am not him. It seems to me he was just unprepared to deal with what it would take to get this **** going right. Ok, fine...growing pains. I think we can all understand that a little. Give him a little leway to try and alleviate the issues. Now from what I have seen, he has not done that. Maybe he is doing more behind the scenes than we are told about...but what good does it do to BLAST Hal here while he is actually trying to rectify the situation behind the scenes? If that were the case, if I were him, I would say screw it and forget about fixing anything...leave you guys hanging. I am not one of the people who say that you only spent $4000 so you should not expect much. I am the person who is saying that BOTH sides were totally unaware of the scope of what they were getting into and from the beginning you should have expected this project to take at least 6 months from the get go. 'Project Donkey' has taken me 3 months of planning, buying parts and installation so far and I probably have another month to go...IF everything works right. And it is just a nitrous setup. I am not blasting ya'll and I am not blasting Hal (unless he does not step up and do what he can to help ya'll out). I just don't see the need for anymore threads about what is going on. Ok, there is my rant.

 

I just noticed how far the BOV is from the throttle plate. A good design mounts it as close the the throttle as possible.

These cars actually have it upstream of the IC

And if any state vehicle inspector knows what he is looking at, that open wastegate dump will be a "FAIL" every time, no matter what the tailpipe readings are.

 

This is rediculous......and a used turbo when you were told you would recieve a new turbo is FRAUD. To me this is as bad as going to a repair shop and they say your alternator is bad when it is perfectly fine and still charge you to have it replaced. I do not know Hal or any of the specifics of the situation other than the problems that these two owners have reported on this board. I am first to hate people that sue for no reason but, this is the time to contemplate that option. If it was me Hal and the shop would have already been contacted by my attorney. Best of luck and I hope that you get these issues resolved. Also, since Hal has been named in the post I think it is only fair that you post the name of the shop that did the install. I have family that live in Kentucky and would like to let them know to never have work done by them. Also, have you contemplated contacting the Better Business Bureau and letting them know about your situation? Sorry for the long reply!

 

Obviously someone didn't know what they were doing...

 

I would just like to say I've been reading all these threads about Hal's Turbo kit and I found them very useful and informative.

 

let me chime in also. It looks like Hal isn't a bad guy. But come on, it looks like these turbo kits are installed in randy's garage down in the Kentucky boonies... More than anything, if Hal wants to keep doing business, I think he needs to find a proficient performance shop that can install this turbo kits. I know that "turbo'ed maximas" are relatively new and that SOME growing pains are to be expected, but the problems Dixit and Bags533 are having are problems that could have been easily prevented by any reasonably seasoned installer. oil line thats too long by 2 feet, STEEL lines, banged up turbos, NO FLEX in the downpipe, no groove for the gasket to sit on,... Come on, this problems ARE ELEMENTARY AND RIDICULOUS. We can't say "oh turboed maximas are new and this is growing pain" with this kind of problems.. If there are any problems, its that toothless "gutt rott" drinking and non-competent kentuckians are installing this kits and they dont know what they're doing. Please dont delete my post moderators. I'm not bashing on Hal. I really think he is a nice guy and that he is working on rectifying these issue. I'm just mad at the "kinds of problems" bigdog and bags are having..

If the MAF units on the 5th gen maximas woulnt not work with turbos for some reason or if it is way too hard to hack into the Maxima fuel system to work with the turbo (hypothetical problems), this is an example of growing pains..
The problems bigdog and bags are having ARE NOT EXAMPLES of growing pains, IMO. But I do believe Hal is learning from this experience too so I hope everything can be taken care of soon.
When something LITTLE goes wrong on my car, like a small leak at the muffler/bpipe junction, it bothers me greatly. And I know how much of a perfectionist dixit is and how well he keeps his car and I cant even imagine what he's going through. this sucks big time. I'm not bashing on anyone but it does suck big time.

 

hi guys im not here to defend or diss hals work. i believe everything thats aftermarket on cars have flaws. like the stillen superchargers. there is never ending problems for every modd. i got lucky with mine no problems except for the clearnce problem that im having. But im selling my car because im buying a 93 rx7 for 10 grand. very cheap. If i dont sell my car with in a month im keeping the max. recently i have raced pcguru2k at 9 psi and i believe he was running 10 or 11 not sure on a sc. off the line i beat him by 2 to 3 cars and i have a bad motor(could tell by the black smoke). but its im not selling the car cause i have problems im selling it cause im moving on to something more easier to modd.

 

I can't launch

But I did catch up though

I'm only running 8psi now though.

 

Well Youve already read my view on things , if not they are in the last two pages of Dixits post.

 

damn hope everything turns out good....these installers musta been drunk or high doing these installs

 

Im glad i waited to spend this kinda $$ on a turbo kit to see its reliability, now if i had no car on top of no money, i would be ROYALLY ...

P.S.- I hope Hal's kits problems are fixed because he sure seems like a nice guy and is trying to do right by his customers, even from the west coast. TO all those with the kit and having problems, GL and keep us updated. Sprint you are 1000000000% correct, Buyer Beware is a big issue with a lot of Maxima.org members.

 

Hey kev or ben.. will you of you explain to me what is going on then.

I don't know why your saying what your saying.

Again, my lack of info. Thank you


and look2me40 .. honestly anger drove me to this. Anger at hal, the shop in KY which is Full Spool Performance, and the peopletelling dixit he needs to fix poor workmanship.

and if I burn the bridge with hal due to this post, there was never a bridge to begin with. If he can't take the honesty about what I said, then he needs thicker skin.

And I am glad I can entertain you

 

Not Kevin or Ben, but I think I can try and explain the BOV. Since the whole point of it is to vent air when the throttle plate closes, it's best to mount it as close to the throttle body as possible.

And I can't tell from the pic, but if it is indeed mounted upstream of the IC, that's just retarded. The air would have to travel from your throttle body all the way back through the IC to the BOV. I'm not sure of the adverse affects of this, but it's just not right.

 

The reason why you want it as close to the TB as possible is to avoid having the compressed air travel ALL THE WAY BACK up the piping in order to be vented/recirculated. Since you have it right after the turbo... the air will have to travel back through your IC, along with all the piping.

Just look at any "normal" or "proper" turbo configuration... they aren't like that.

 

Yeah, what Jeff said.

 

I think kev and msmtg was speaking about the shop not knowing what they were doing.

 

This location would provide the best response for the BOV and turbo. It might be a little too close to the MAF, but moving the MAF closer to the throttle body would fix that.

 

BTW, if you need help w/ more turbo problems, one of my old friends from school runs a shop and they pretty much exclusively do turbo kits/work and dyno tuning. Near downtown. He may be able to help you troubleshoot something or give you advice on how to fix something. Don't know if it would help, but it might.

 

That is the ideal place since the MAF is downstream from the turbo, but ideally, the MAF should be BEFORE the turbo with the BOV as close to the TB as possible. Yes, there might be stalling issues but putting the MAF before the turbo is still the ideal location.

 

Setting up a "bypass valve" instead of a "blow off valve" would be ideal. It might not make such cool noises, but it allows the MAF to be before the turbo like god intended.

 

Keeping in mind I am not making light of the situation or enjoying your pain.

 

Although what you are experiencing is horrible, this statement is going to be a problem. Anyone who mods their car to the level you have must realize that things are going to break more often and cost more money, that's part of the game. Turbocharged engines require a lot more attention and care. My S/C'd Maxima constantly needed money to keep it going. If it wasn't super expensive oil, it was transmissions blowing or engines blowing or spending more money on tires due to wheel spin.

That's the wrong attitude to have, you should've said, we did not order a kit that needed immediate serious attention.

 

You are correct... along with all the other turbo applications that are setup this way in STOCK form.

 

I 100% disagree. For projects like this, YES, there will be problems. Expecially for the decent price. BUT and this is the big BUT, IMHO, these guys shouldn't be having THESE kinds of problems. Very elementary and basic design problems are NOT and should NEVER be put into the "things that are going break more often category". Minor boost leaks, a rattle or two here and there, faulty clamps, a silicone hose too short are these "things". NOT routing the turbo's drain line in a "U" so the oil backs up into the turbo and causes the oil to blow though the whole exhaust system. In fact, he should be carefull that the 02 sensor doesn't go bad. That's another $100 part. Your problems were because the SC was WORKING CORRECTLY. I think everyone could live with those problems.

General statement. If you don't know about turbos, be careful about what you say.

 

Ok did you read what I wrote, I said that's a bad overall thoguht to have. You mod like crazy (isn't your 3rd gen close to stock) and you need to accept the fact that you're going to have to spend more time and money on your ride. I stated at the end a better thought woudl be, "we did not order a kit that needed immediate serious attention."

All of what you said would fit into needing immediate serious attention. As I stated the problems are real bad and are definitely ISSUES, but all in all no one should be doing a turbo setup without the knowledge, time, and cash to back it up?

I think you misunderstood what I said Jeff because you're reply made me think you thought my response was bogus. Frankly, I don't know a single sole who has converted NA to turbo who has not had to spend a decent amount of cash to keep it up.

All this aside their problems are not the problems they should be concerned about (these problems should not exist since they're such easily avoidable problems), but having the thought of a seemless turbo car ownership is just setting up for disappointment.