tbirdrob

Anybody want to help me out here?

http://modernmusclecars.net/forums/s...&threadid=5289

pezking4

Things I think of with the phrase "muscle car" are Big V8's, rear wheel drive, huge burnouts and all at an economical price. I'd prefer 4 Door Sports Car . About the only muscle car being produced now is the Mustang, and I only really enjoy driving the Cobras and Mach1's.

Chunger

iTrader: (1)

MY definition of "modern muscle car" would only extend to the recent F-bodies, Mustangs, and Corvettes due to their heritage (Vipers being an exception).

But then again it may be because I owned a '68 Camaro and '73 Nova.

Y2KSESteve

iTrader: (22)

The maxima is not a muscle car.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Depends on what your definition is. Do you consider the 94-95-ish 5.0 mustang a "muscle car"?? It only had about 200-225hp. Hell my 92se has 190hp. The 2000 max had 222hp and the new max has 260hp. Ford didn't put 260hp into a mustang until around 1996-1998 or so. Excluding the Cobras.

carnal_c30

iTrader: (38)

nope

I dont think so... muscle cars... are RWD, have big V8s... yea

we do get one part right... 4th and 5th gens are more muscle car than the rest of the gens ... solid rear beam baby!

tbirdrob

I posted a list on their forum of what I thought were modern muscle cars. Remember, the Mustang and Camaro were introduced as "pony cars" while the muscle car status was typically for the bigger, four-doors such as the GTO. I think that a muscle car is any car that can haul four or more people and do it quickly. Looks like my opinion is a little outnumbered though.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

I'm waiting for SR20DEN, I already know his answer



IMO, yes, Maxima's are Muscle Cars. now, if you go to a Mustang or Camaro forum they will call us rice, but seeing as the number of GT wannabe V6's and Cobra wannabe GT's, I dont think they have much room to speak. Plus I dont think we will ever see Nissan have a lawsuit about false horsepower ratings.

A majority of the 60's muscle cars wont even churn 14 second runs stock, and even how we have Maxima's running 11's, there are NO internal engine modifications!!!!! thats pretty impressive in itself, I mean that shows alot of the quality of the engine, plus I believe Maxima's are high quality cars.

I think Blubyu can argue this one too, hes running 13's all motor, if that isnt impressive, well.......



I would however call them modern muscle cars, as I dont think I would side with Maxima's if you tried to argue it against Mopar Muscle

Frank Fontaine

Even though anybody can claim anything they want, since you use the word wannabe I have an analogy. A Maxima might be some dude that is about 6' and goes to the gym and gets satisfaction that he can bench all the plates on a MACHINE, and yes he looks at himself in the mirror a lot too. He is toned, yes. Another guy is like 6'4", 240, all muscle. This guy does free weights, and warms up with 10 reps at 225 or so. They he bumps it up to about 315 and does 3 more sets of only 6 reps. He is strong but may not even be as cut as the short 6' dude. Maxima is the former, muscle car is the latter. Now which one would you want as a hockey linemate, the toned dude or somebody with some strength?

Craig Mack

As much as I would like the Maxima to be a Muscle car, it's not.

It's a quick 4 door with the smoothest/sweetest V6 on the planet.

Speed doesn't always = Muscle. 8 cylinders, RWD, and crappy handling are some features, for starters.

mzmtg

iTrader: (11)

C430

Think of Arnold Schwarzenegger in a tuxedo - voila, you have the Max!

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

I say the '02 -'03 Maximas are indeed muscle cars. They can beat about 90% of the 60's so called muscle cars in almost every test. And this is something that can be proven. So if you don't want to call the Maxima a muscle car then you need to remove that label for the majority of Camaros, Mustangs and Corvettes made.

guapsnaman

Maxima, no.

Skyline, that's a muscle car man!

max83

There are no more muscle cars. A muscle car does one thing goes fast in a straight line. It doesn't brake well or turn well it just goes fast.

So no the maxima is not a muscle car.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

You contradicted yourself. The Maxima behaves just like that.

max83

No when I say doesn't turn/brake well I'm talking about turning like a boat and 4 wheel drum braking. The maxima is not that bad.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

I guess a Maxima is a super muslce car, because it can do everything good, except drift, but muscle cars dont drift, so its all clear.


I think that when you find someone putting slicks on their car because their having troubles getting traction, its pretty safe to consider them a muscle car.

BOZOnPJs

Maximas might be a modern muscle car or whatever title.... but it sure does takes a hit like a sissy..

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

not all 60's muscle cars were drums, infact alot of them were front disc.

I only consider my mustang as a muscle car by default, truth is my 3rd gen would easily kick its *** in every way execpt noise, but I dont like to hear exhaust, I like to hear the engine, so thats not bad at all.

MrGone

carnal_c30

iTrader: (38)

my friends put slicks on Civics

i would put slicks on my old 240 400hp= crazy traction when boost kicks in

uhhmmm... i duno... dude the Maxima is a 4 door grocery getter

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

btw, I'd take your truck as well, but I am a huge fan of the 5.2l (318ci) Mopar. still the 4.7 is a great motor.

I'm surprised no one has said Muscle cars have to have Pushrods

Maximan190

iTrader: (8)

muscle car =

sedan/sport sedan =

i see a difference

TXMAX

Nah, Maximas are not muscle cars as the original word implied.

GTO's were not 4 dr cars, they were all 2dr and many consider them the first "muscle car"

The idea was to put a big block into a small to midsize car and the 389 in the first GTO (64) did just that.

389ci/348hp in a fairly light 3200lb car was good enough for 0-60 in 4.8 sec's and 14 sec 1/4 miles (without traction)

Dont even get started with mods, add slicks and your in another bracket already

OK, im partial since i own a 67 convertible

Ahh nothing like a 64 gto with 389 TriPower set up.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

Many of you are describing common traits that define a mucle car that the Maxima has. Now I personally only classify one specific Maxima as a muscle car (the '02- '03). The other Maximas just don't meet enough of the power and weight requirments.

Here is a list of common denominators that the Muscle cars and the '02 Maximas meet:

1.) More torque than horsepower
2.) 3200+ pounds of weight
3.) Can run mid to low 14's right off the showroom floor.
4.) Can run 14's with the auto trans as well as the manual.
5.) Car goes much better in straight lines than curves.
6.) Has forward traction problems on street tires which can inhibit forward performance.
7.) Does all of this in NA form (no power adders).


Here is a list that the Maxima does not meet.
1.) RWD
2.) 2 doors
3.) V8


It all falls back to what the true definition of Muscle car is. Does this true definition absolutely mean that the car has to have only 2 doors? If so that removes plenty of very muscular 60's and 70's vehicles from this distinction. Showing pictures comparing a Camaro against a 3rd gen Maxima is compelling but the efforts are fruitless because the 3rd gen Maxima does not have enough power and weight to make the list. The Camaro also meets the definition of a Ponycar which is a 2 door RWD V8 powered coupe or hatchback. That definition can be limited even more to specifically a Mustang or Camaro and nothing else. But if you limit the Musclecar definition specifically to a small group of 60's and 70's cars you're leaving out alot of cars that are well deserved of that title. I also think the term needs to be somewhat malleable. Definitions in the English language are meant to flex and change over time. And like it or not, there is a long list of vehicles today that simply put those 'old' Muscle cars to shame in many different ways. And im not even talking about exotic sports cars. The good times are right now and there is a horsepower war going on that has already surpassed that of the 60's.

I do not expect many of you to side with me on this but that list of common traits is why I came to this conclusion long before this post was made. The facts are on the table so call it as you see it.

CoolMax

iTrader: (7)

Why are we comparing the power of today's Maxima to the musclecars of the '60s? That was 40yrs ago. Even a Honda Odyssey can top some in terms of power.
I also I don't know how someone with a solid rear beam axle can say their car handles great and that muscle cars don't. Try cornering with an IS300 or 3-series or other cars with IRS and the Maxima will feel just like muscle car. Oh, and try it stock. It's all relative.
Logic suggest that an Acura TL-S should be a muscle car too.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

The TL-S is close but it's lacking a bit in the torque department.

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

My maxima sounds like a muscle car
but i don't think the max is a muscle car

2k2kev

nope, they're right.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

Those who think they aren't please provide evidence as to why the '02 and '03 Maximas are not Muscle cars.

2k2kev

because it's a different class of car... it's like people who ask "should I get a 350Z or a maxima?" They're not in the same class. The older muscle cars were not defined by their horsepower alone, they were defined by the 'era' as well. That era has passed, there are no more muscle cars. Yes, the maxima matches or exceeds all the qualifications but one... it's too new.

I agree this is a good time for cars and the horsepower war is back on, but today's cars are sports cars which, IMO, is a step up from the muscle cars (not that I wouldn't take a GTO if you gave it to me ).

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

Thats a good counterpoint except for the "too new" part. It's too new to be a classic. BEsides, the name of the forum to which he linked is called 'Modern muscle cars'.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

i'd put $10 down saying most maximas on this board would kick my mustangs ****, except a VG, it could probably hold its own against a VG, not a turbo VG though, or one with a JWT

2k2kev

I guess my point is if someone said "your 2k2 6-speed is a muscle car" I'd say "no, in many ways it's more." I think to most people a muscle car is a N/A, big v-8, older (before 1985), carbureted, straight line racer. Yes the maxima can keep up with or beat many mustangs, but it can also beats them stopping, turning, and in mileage.

A muscle car is like ****... hard to define but you know it when you see it .

TXMAX

I think 2k2 really said it well. One thing that separates these times from the past is that like the GTO, many muscle cars had an extensive list of options that allowed you to customize a cars, "power".

Sure we can customize our cars now, but the "power" section is either very small or non existant. You could order an assortment of engines and engine options on many muscle cars(ram air, bobcat, etc), you could order different rear gears, auto or standard, close or wide ratio shifting, suspension packages, etc. etc.

I'd love to think that the "horse power" war is on once again, and it seems like it is, but give the customer more "power" choices and youd have quite a few happy campers

nice95GLE

Let’s not be naïve, to all that say a Maxima is a muscle car let’s be real. We know damn well that a Max does not fit the criteria of a muscle car. Yes it is a good car for what it’s worth but it far from muscle. The following is a list of most of the muscle cars of the 60’s and 70’s and nowhere on that list do I see Maxima or Nissan for that matter.

Muscle cars

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

Again, most people agree so instead of post a thousand other worthless posts that say "The Maxima is not a muscle car". Do yourself a favor and list some tangeble critera as to why it isn't. I listed plenty of criteria as to why it is. Evidence folks, no more bunghole opinions.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

I want somebody who can skate and can pass and shoot accurately. I don't care how strong they are.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

When I think if "muscle car" FWD 4-door sedans don't come to my mind. "Technically" I guess you could include some maximas in that class but come on.

TXMAX

LOL good one!