Madd Maxx

I'm just found the virtues of using Mobil 1 Synthetic in my 97 Maxima SE. Now I'm thinking about putting Amsoil synthetic tranny oil in my automatic? I believe I have to have to the tranny flushed to get all the oil out of the torque converter?? I don't know how much it will cost?? Also I would like to know if it's worth the cost? I would like feedback from people who know about the matter or are currently running synthetic tranny oil. I read a lot about motor or but couldn't really find any topics about tranny oil..

Thanks in advance.

Madd Maxx

emax02

iTrader: (1)

I originaly used amsoil tranny oil and my car {5spd} shifted a little better then stock,but nothing great. Then a while later I put in Red Line MTL{ATF for you} and it works wonders!! Seriosly! It was a night and day difference,before with stock or amsoil the car did not shift that great on a cold day and not all that great on a warm day either,but now with redline the cars shifter is nice and slippery,it takes about half the effort to shift gears. I am sure with a auto magic it won't make as big of a difference for you but I garanty your car will shift a lot better. BTW I don't want to discredit amsoil because they do make great engine oil. I have used amsoil engine oil for years now,but I am switching to Royal Purple next oil change.

Madd Maxx

Do I have to get a tranny flush to start using synthetic oil in my auto tranny???

How much will it cost if I have to??

Madd Maxx

Also does 97 Maxima auto have a transmission oil filter??

Thanks in advance.

Madd Maxx

emax02

iTrader: (1)

Yes you should have in flushed and htere is no filter.
Redline ATF is $11 per quart.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

statement you have just made.

Comparing 5-speed gear oil to ATF made by 2 different companiees and making direct conclusions is misleading to newbies here on the board and you should know better.

At least qualify your statement a little more and say you haven't had any experience with Amsoil ATF or Redline ATF for that matter.

The main reason I do not like Redline products (the MT-90 for your 5-speed is a noteable exception mostly by reputation here and else), particularly motor oil and ATF, is because there is ZERO lab test study information on their product compared to others. Makes myself a bit uneasy.

On the other hand, Amsoil will fill you up with long term testing on their motor oil and ATF products as far as mileage expectations and relative protection versus other products, etc.....

As far as AT filter, 95 to 99 Maximas have one while 89 to 94 Maximas only have a screen. It is possible I'm wrong here, but there is an AT filter part for the 95 to 99 Maxes....

Madd Maxx

Thanks for both your input. Everyone has their personal opinions that they're entitled to. I believe this forum is to help newbies like me. I just want the best performance and maintainence kept on my 97 max. Cars aren't cheap and I just want mine running tiptop as do all of you on this forum. I'm still confused as to run Redline I believe it's (D4 ATF for my 97 Max??) or Amsoil?? And how much does the tranny flush cost and does the 97 max ATF have a filter???? Can someone please clafify the situation.

Thanks

Madd Maxx

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

*****MESSAGE BECAME VICTIM OF PHP DATABASE BUG***********

sinewave

First of, the 4th gen's do NOT have a filter, they have a screen and you shouldn't change it. One nut holding it on screws to a bolt that runs through the valve body. The only way to tighten the nut is to remove the VB, not an easy job.

Although synthetic A/T fluid is compatible with conventional fluid, you won't get the maximum benefits.

I had SpeeDee Oil replace ALL of the fluid (11 qts. IIRC) to Royal Purple synthetic for $190 last summer. I don't notice any performance or shifting improvements, but I did it to protect my transmission from the 10 months of summer here in New Orleans. After all, heat is the big killer of A/T's.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

I don't want you being misled in this important decision, so I needed to say something to emax. Apples and oranges shouldn't be directly compared.

Here's what I can tell you:

I'm unaware of anyone running Amsoil ATF that posts a lot....I'm sure some are but I can't tell you who.

I have run Redline ATF before my last tranny fluid change (shop INSISTED that I couldn't use synthetic in their fluid replacement machine). I had good, smooth shifts, even though it was only 4 quarts out of 10 that had the Redline synthetic in there.....

JJW95SC has Redline ATF in his 91 Maxima and has reported no problems in 20k+ of driving. He seems pleased with the product....

I don't doubt Redline ATF is good, I just haven't seen lab oriented data to back it up. Amsoil states that fluid change intervals should be 3 times that of conventional fluid (which is typically 30k, so that translates into 90k intervals for Amsoil ATF)

A tranny flush will run you $80 to $100 at any Penske Auto Center (affiliated with K-Marts), AND you have to supply around 15 quarts of fluid IF a particular place will let you 'pollute' their machine with superior ATF. I couldn't find a shop in my area that would do this, but JJW95SC and others have......

The part number for auto tranny filter:

Wix #58602

Hopefully someone can clarify if this is just a screen or a real filter.....

sinewave

All 4th gen's use the RE4F04A transmission. Besides looking through the manual, I had the valve body out of the tranny 3 weeks ago. I can assure you that there is no filter, only a screen.

brubenstein

For the past few days I've been going through the posts of q45tech on the Yahoo Infinity message board. He is a part owner of an independent Infinity/Lexus repair shop. What is significant is that the early Q45 trannies have serious reliability problems, and his shop has serviced 1,000s of them. For maximum reliability, this is what I have learned:
- Synthetic trans fluid will keep a transmission working longer than convential fluid, because:
It maintains its viscosity over a larger temp range than convential fluid. This is important when the transmission is cold, because the thick conventional fluid is hard on the trans when cold. The high temp stability of the synthetic is a major plus at high temps. The brand of synthetic is much less important than the superiority of synthetic over convential.

- Transmission fluid should be changed every 30k miles, even when using synthetic.

- A transmission cooler is a major help.

- If the original fluid has not been changed on a car with >30k miles it is recommended to do a complete refill with convential fluid, drive 500-1000 and then do a complet refill with synthetic. The first, short refill acts as a flush to get the old gunk out. (also recommended when changing over with engine oil)

- The best transmission you car will ever have, aside from a complete rebuild from Level10, is the one that came with it. Rebuilt transmissions will not last anything like the original, so it pays to keep the original working right. This is particularly true if you plan on keeping a car past 100k miles.

sinewave

brubenstein,
I agree 100%!

emax02

iTrader: (1)

To address my Quote "ignorant post", My parents cars both have auto's and use redline ATF and I do occasionaly drive there cars and I did notice a difference in there shifts,they are smoother. Also my Parents both said that they were suprised how much better there cars shift with it,so... Also I have heard at least a dozen guys here say they were immpressed by redline ATF. So another words I don't think my post was very ignorant at all. On amsoils behalf I said that I like there products, but was not impressed by there MTL. Also I have not once heard any body speak highly of there ATF. So it would have been stupid of me not to say what I said.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

my apologies.....

Just don't want people talking out their butt about products without personal experience......it's not something you typically do, so I was surprised/disappointed.

I haven't heard anyone sing Amsoil ATF praises either, even though I have several gallons sitting in my attic (too lazy to switch it)......I guess I get to be the guinea pig....

Madd Maxx

I didn't know there is about 10 quarts of fluid in the ATF???? I thougt it was only 4??? Also will the Nissan Dealer flush my ATF?? What's with contaminating shop oil refiller?? I thought one just fluses all the oil out then refill it through the small fill tube in the engine bay or is this not the case this stuff is all new to me??

Madd Maxx

SunMax

iTrader: (2)

Anyone had use Mobil 1 ATF? Any comments?

Thanks!

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Originally posted by Madd Maxx
I didn't know there is about 10 quarts of fluid in the ATF????

Yep. I believe it's 9 qts. in 89 to 94 slushboxes and 10 qts. in the 95 to 99 slushboxes.

I thougt it was only 4???

You can only drain 3 to 4 quarts out of the plug at a time. The rest of the fluid is in the torque converter, which does not have a drain plug.

So, a good way to flush your ATF yourself is as follows (thanks Matt93GXE):
*******************
Instead of doing the $100 flush, what I did was just buy 12 qts of tranny fluid and do the drain/fill thing 3 times, once a week..
to drain the fluid, just pull the plug at the bottom of the tranny.. a 1/2" drive ratchet end fits perfectly (the square piece)
let it drain for a good 20-30 min, then put the plug back in and refill.
the fun part is filling it.. you've got a hole about the size of a McDonald's straw to fill it! (you'd think carmakers would find a better way to do this, but noooo! almost every auto I've seen is done like this.)
you'll need to fill 2.5-4qt each time.
I suggest dumping in 2 qts, then check the level and add as necessary.
(you could also measure how much you drained form the trany then put just a little less than that back in..)
don't overfill, cause that can cause nasty problems. it's better to have to add small amounts several times than try to take some out!
that's about it.. usually I'll change the fluid, then drive for a few days or a week (whenever you have time to do it) and change it again. do this 2-3 times and you should be pretty well done.
***************

Also will the Nissan Dealer flush my ATF??

Who knows. Most Nissan Dealers are incompetent IMHO but should be able to do a full auto tranny flush. They should charge $100...The incompetent wants will do a drain and fill which will only involve 4 quarts and WON'T completely get it out....

What's with contaminating shop oil refiller??

Sort of a joke, sort of serious. The machines they have that suck ATF out of your drain plug and pour in fresh fluid at the same time are expensive. Most owners tend to want to use their own fluid (usually cheap-*** conventional ATF) all the time in the machine. They think mixing will mess things up. Who knows?

I thought one just fluses all the oil out then refill it through the small fill tube in the engine bay or is this not the case this stuff is all new to me??

The procedure outline given above uses this method, but the machines put new fluid in that helps push the old fluid out....


Madd Max,

I really don't understand your reporting this post to a moderator (Shing), as it was copied to me as well......I didn't want you getting incorrect information, so I called out emax on it. He explained himself, I apologized, and
you got good info from an informed source. I appreciate your anxiousness on wanting to do this correctly, but if you have an issue with something I have said, please address me personally. We have Private Messaging and I also have e-mail.

Take it easy and good luck!

Shingles

I can't really speak to either ATF, but I can speak for Mobile 1. It's what's been in my car for a while now. In reality it's probably time to change. BUT the car shifts as smooth as ever...

At about 12k miles, I changed over to syntheic Mobile 1 ATF. I bought 12 quarts, but didn't use it all. If you run into a really nice shop, like I did, they connected the machine up to the car and used the regular stuff to flush the system out. That did that to make sure that all the old stuff was out. Otherwise, I would have probably needed 3-4 more quarts to flush the system.

When I first had the stuff put in... the car appeared to shift a little faster and firmer. Not sure if that's just cause it was fresh or what, but I did notice that.

How's the protection? Probably very good. I say that because I have almost 70k miles on my car and the car has not had any tranny problems what so ever. Ofcourse I don't abuse the car so that might be something as well.

Would I recommend this? yes... because I know that this stuff protects better.

-Shing

Enduro

My Mobile 1 ATF experience has been pleasant like Shingle. Before putting it in I didn't expect to Feel any difference but did it for the extra protection. After I did the drain/refill I was surprised that I could actually feel the shift/transition between gear is smoother and almost as if the shift point is earlier when looking at the RPM guage and yes I was surprise at this...did I mention that? I did the drain/refill at ~65k so may be what I experienced is simply because of newer/fresher fluid because I'm not sure if I can tell the shift difference anymore, and yes I pay much detail about how my car rides in every aspect. My car is now at ~74k and I'm planning on doing another drain/refill at around 80k to further dilute the old conventional ATF that didn't come out on the first drain.

Madd Maxx

I callled two Nissan dealerships and they said they don't recommend the flush because 97 Max AT only has a screen and not a filter. They said that if I have it flushed I run the chance of pushing the sediment in the screen back up into the valve/gears??? He said I could run into shifting problems. I bought the car with 20K on it. It was driven by a retired couple. I now have 32k on it about 90% being Highway cruising. There possibly couldn't be hardly any stuff in the screen right?? I plan on going through with the flush @ a local valvoline oil change place. They said it would could $80 to flush. I'm going to buy 14 quarts of Redline Oil D4 so the job gets done right. I asked the Valvoline guy if I could bring my own oil and asked which brand and I said Redline. He said he never heard of such, and said ok. I better not have any problems when I go there tommorow. Also when you bring your own oil do they mix it with their cheap stuff in the machine or is it empty and they fill it with the stuff you brought. Let me know what you think???

On an ending note to ALL that have replied to my newbie questions I'm very grateful. It's good to know there is an accessable place when one can post questions and have they answered QUICKLY.

Thank you all.

Madd Maxx

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

I callled two Nissan dealerships and they said they don't recommend the flush because 97 Max AT only has a screen and not a filter. They said that if I have it flushed I run the chance of pushing the sediment in the screen back up into the valve/gears???

Hmmmm.......that's a good one.

Just remember:

Nissan Dealer Service = oxymoron (as you are finding out)


He said I could run into shifting problems.

It's good to know Nissan's ATF is good for the life of the car/tranny.....NOT!

I plan on going through with the flush @ a local valvoline oil change place. They said it would could $80 to flush.

Great. Sounds good.

I'm going to buy 14 quarts of Redline Oil D4 so the job gets done right.

Get 15 just in case.



I asked the Valvoline guy if I could bring my own oil and asked which brand and I said Redline. He said he never heard of such, and said ok. I better not have any problems when I go there tommorow. Also when you bring your own oil do they mix it with their cheap stuff in the machine or is it empty and they fill it with the stuff you brought. Let me know what you think???

The reason why you need the 5+ extra quarts is exactly for that reason. To make sure you get their cruddy ATF out of their machine first. The first part of your ATF will mix with the crappy stuff and then your unmixed stuff will flush out the mixed stuff.


Good luck and post your results!

brubenstein

If the 4th gen Max transmissions have a pan and filter/screen on the bottom of the transmission (the 3rd gens have it on top), then have the pan dropped and the screen changed first. Most of the loose stuff generated in a transmssion is during break-in/ 10 - 15k miles. Once this is done, then put the Redline ATF in. Get the fluid changed every 30k miles and the tranny will be good to go for way over 100k miles. It would be a good idea to have the pan dropped, and screen changed, on every 3rd fluid change.

sinewave

Only if you are prepared to pay to have the valve body removed and re-installed! There is one nut on the screen that screws to a bolt that goes through the VB. The only way to tighten that nut is to remove the VB.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

(Or, if you work for the government)

If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is.

Enduro

sinwave you mention that by removing the screen u'd have to remove the valve body? Last time i dropped the pan and removed/replace the screen i remembered there were lots of nuts to be taken out but can't remember taking anything out along with the screen that resemble the VB you mentioned! May be my memory went bad but the only thing I could remember from that experience was removing lots of nuts and spending loooong time removing all the tiny metal residues clinging onto the 2 magnets.

sinewave

Did the screen kit (screen and gasket) that you bought have a warning about this? The kit I bought at Pep Boys did. I bought it just to get the gasket; it was cheaper than buying just the gasket from the dealer.

Anyway, there is one nut on the screen, all of the rest are bolts (or hex-head cap screws, I don't know what the difference is). That lone nut has a bolt that goes thru the VB. There is no tab or anything other than friction keeping that bolt from turning. Maybe you got lucky and the friction was enough to allow you to adequately tighten it. I would be reluctant to take the chance. Besides, there really no reasion to change it as a scheduled mainteniance item. It can't really get "full" of particulates like a filter can.

Sorry, I had to edit this; had some confusing terms.

Madd Maxx

I just got my ATF flushed and had pure Redline D4 ATF put in already shifts seem smoother. I know because I gauged it yesterday to see how my car was shifting. I will do a LONG follow up soon after about a tank worth of gas. I already got almost 50 extra miles out of tank from just switching to Mobil 1 motor oil. I curious as too see if I will get more than 450 miles from this fill up. Keep a look out for my post.


Thanks a million for all who helped me out.


Madd Maxx

Enduro

Ok my memory is coming back now I did use the wrong term...it was a bunch of bolts that had to be taken out and not nuts...there was just one nut like you said on the screen and guess I'm lucky cause the bolt didn't budge when i retighten it. The screen and gasket i got from dealer and yeah it was ExpensivE. The screen wasn't full of gunk but did have a bunch of metal particles clinging to it. Thanks for refreshing my memory.

madmax2k

On my 5 speed, shifting does "feel" different with the Redline, and the engine "seems" to rev more freely, but the power output reamined the same....Much to my dismay

Maxwell

ELEVEN DOLLARS!!?

i just paid $6.30/qt. yesterday for 5W and MT-90. Is the ATF so different that it's that much more expensive?

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

Really?

Dang that's high.

Amsoil ATF is $53 for a 2-1/2 gallon container, higher for people who aren't preferred customers, which I would imagine to be $70 to &75 or about $7 to $8 a quart.

And, BTW, I have done 2 drain 'n fills of tranny fluid on my 94 and re-filled with 3 quarts of Amsoil ATF each time.....car hasn't died yet and is shifting smoother.....2 more 'flushes' to go......


Try shopping around a little more for Redline. I've used www.summitracing.com before. I thought the price for a case of Redline ATF was $100, which is more like $8/qt than $11/qt.....

Maxwell

Yeah, I've seen that AMSoil is cheaper, but I used Redline before I learned about AMSoil, used it and loved it, so now I'm just be stubborn about using anything different.

I'm sure the AMSoil protects great, but I'd seen posts about how Redline actually changed the feel of the drive, and have seen nothing like that for AMSoil since (although admittedly, I didn't really research AMSoil after using Redline, the way I researched Redline). I noticed an immediate improvement in both the shifting and the engine (both idle and acceleration), so I've decided to stay with Redline, if for no other reason than my own psychological well-beaing.

bill99gxe

iTrader: (1)

wasn't a commercial for Amsoil (rare, but true), just a comparision of their ATF prices to Redlines. I really thought they were priced about the same, which is why I responded after seeing $11/qt. for Redline.

Someone out there is REALLY jacking up prices for that stuff.


I'm the guinea pig for the Amsoil ATF, so I will try to elaborate on driveability after all four drain 'n fills....thus far, drivebility improved after the second drain 'n fill over the weekend, while it didn't on the first one.....