deezo

iTrader: (3)

Some have said the firewall wouldn't allow it to fit but here is the truth without all of the words....

deezo

iTrader: (3)

No limiter...

MaxSpeedSE

iTrader: (3)

you can take it up to 8 grand while racing, on a stock ecu cuz of the manifold alone?

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Relax man. I wasn't being argumentative, that's why i said "FYI". Not all 2k1's have LSD, only the AE's have it and those are rare enough as it is. I was just saying that the LSD is most likely not the reason he got the tranny because he would have a VERY hard time finding an AE tranny.

Bags

iTrader: (3)

Congrats!!!

Glad you were able to pull it off...

Are you running the stock valve's and springs

krismax

iTrader: (15)

Yes I'am still using stock valvtrain

nismos14

iTrader: (56)

MaxSpeedSE he has a JWT ecu with a 8k rpm rev limiter

great work guys! i would love to own that car

maximase86

iTrader: (24)

8k rev limiter...wow that's crazy! And to think I thought 7200rpm rev limiter was crazy! Are you planning any valvetrain upgrades?

S

AsthmaMax11

iTrader: (3)

Wow!! first of all I would like to say that this is really cool, the .org has been a little boring for a few months now. Things like this are starting to get my interest again.
However, I would REALLY be interested in seeing a video of a run through 1st and 2nd gear to 8k but with the camera focused on the gauges...it would be really cool to see how fast the MPH move after 7k.
Awesome job though man, I mean all the people involved in this are extremely dedicated!!!

Kolyan

2k-2k1 have 220HP due to that VI so is that what you supposed to get?
and 2k1 AE have 225HP right? where is the extra 5 come from?

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

Woah.. kicka$$! congrats man!

I'd love to see some dyno numbers now...

I highly doubt you want to pull it all off, but I can refer to you a good fab shop if you'd like to make up the custom pcs in quantity..

SteVTEC

you guys rock!!

Can't WAIT to see some dynos and track times with this BEAST! Finally something interesting to read about here instead of all of this lame ricer crap lately.

Get a dyno done and I'll plot USIM vs MEVI vs 2kVI

Conrad283

iTrader: (2)

Awesome job. I remember you telling me that the FI guys are gonna want your car after you're done with it. I think you're right

98SEBlackMax

iTrader: (9)

Haha my thoughts exactly, It was getting boring around here in the last few months. I was honored to get to do a project like this and would do it again if the oppurtunity came about.

Oh as far as a dyno comparison goes this manifold isnt your normal 2K VI. For instance Chris got rid of all the swirl valve crap in the lower manifold and bored out the upper plenum to 73 mm, also he used a 70mm Pathfinder TB. So this definitly has more pep than a stock 2K VI. Would be interesting to compare a 2K dyno to his.

Jason R

iTrader: (39)

if this car is going to be at the East Coast meet in Jersey then i am definitely there. awesome work.

SteVTEC

who cares? More power to ya.

I'll be sure to note any mods to the VI in any charts I put up.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

I am glad to see that someone finally went through with this. Congrats!!

Now you really should concern yourself with the stock valvetrain. The VQ35 retainers are the best option because they're lighter than titanium and only about $3 each from the dealer.

I have been waiting for a good opportunity to realease this information and this appears to be it. The VK45 titanium valves are near identical to the VQ30 valves. The only thing that is different is the total length which can be adjusted with new shims.

VQ30DE Steel valve;
Face In: 36.0 - 36.3mm
Face Ex: 31.2 - 31.5mm

Stem In: 5.965 - 5.980mm
Stem Ex: 5.945 - 5.960mm

Length In: 97.32 - 97.82mm
Length Ex: 94.85 - 95.35mm

Valve seat angle 45º15' - 45º45'

VK45 Titanium valve;
Face In: 36.0 - 36.3mm
Face Ex: 31.2 - 31.5mm

Stem In: 5.972 - 5.980mm
Stem Ex: 5.962 - 5.970mm

Length In: 96.57mm
Length Ex: 94.50mm


Valve seat angle 45º15' - 45º45'

The faces and the seat angles are identical. The stems are slightly different only because the expansion rates are slightly different between the metals. They're both classified as 6mm stems.

The only question that remains is the location of the keeper. If it's high enough on the Ti valve then there is no problem. If it's too low then custom retainers will be needed to make them work.

DAVE Sz

iTrader: (2)

Again, no. The HP gains are from more than just the manifold. Lighter internals are used inside the engines to get gains as well. A better exhaust system and other things. The AE has 227hp.

waveridr85

iTrader: (4)

wow, surely a great thing to know. a FAQ or a how to is now a must.

And to think, there is a thread 1 up about them arguing if it can be done or not.

DAVE Sz

iTrader: (2)

If you read that thread you'd have noticed that it was made by the guys who did the swap. They made it to get a good laugh.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Most of the gains came from the manifold. This is a fact.

And please explain how lighter internals adds HP...

1FSTMAX

iTrader: (29)

What internal parts are those? I was under the impression that the only diffrence between the DE and DE-K, was more agressive cams, true VI, Higher redline, and variable exhaust that gave it more power. Also the AE supposedly gains more power by using a different b pipe.


That engine is screaming, GOOD WORK!!!!I hope your hard works pays off, with awsome number on the dyno. Im sure a bunch of MEVI's are gonna pop up in the 4th gen 4 sale forum..

Wisky97SE

iTrader: (1)

Damn man thats awesome. . . I cant wait to see the dyno for this! . . . . Im surprised your valvetrain is taking this abuse without problem!

PS: You should wear your seatbelt.

DAVE Sz

iTrader: (2)

I read that they used lighter moving parts to get more power on top of the manifold and the exhaust. Explain how lighter parts wouldn't make more power. If all the internal moving parts in the engine weigh 1/2 of what the 4th gen parts weighed don't you think that would free up some power?

Iilac

iTrader: (65)

Congrats on the success. Now if you can dyno, that be awesome.

MaximumMax

Looks like all those who said it couldn't be done ate their words!!

SPiG

iTrader: (7)

How much did it cost to do?

How long did it take?

Can you make a write up?

spirilis

iTrader: (2)

i'm pretty sure the lighter valve components are to decrease the probability of valve float at those high RPMs (especially 8K)

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

Are the VQ35 internals also lighter? (granted they aren't really the same, but are they still a more lightweight design)

deezo

iTrader: (3)

In that vid, the guys were checking out my 200amp alternator... And I was probably talking their ears off about it..

To those wanting to do this mod:
Be reading for a lot of modification work. After seeing this thing in action, you would think its a direct bolt on to the intake. It's probably been explained before but you need the intake collector, the fuel rails, and the intake with the injectors from the DE-K block. I thought the guys (Chris and Joe) said they worked about 20 hours straight on this.

It's good to hear that the EGR was a direct fit to the EGR port on the 2K intake collector but the rear collector bolts couldn't be used. The is on there good though and Chris showed us by rocking the whole car by the collector.

deezo

iTrader: (3)

I don't know if it's the weight that reduces the float. I thought it was the spring rate. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

Lighter valvetrain components do reduce float. It's essentually the same thing as adding stronger valve springs. A valve spring can close a lighter valve quicker than it can close a heavier one.

I never saw any publication that mentioned the VQ35DE-K having lighter internal componants than the regular VQ30DE. The published differences were the VI composite intake manifold, the cams and the two stage muffler. The cams can be overlooked because the only cam that is different is the exhaust cam and the VQ30DE has the more aggressive of the two (duration wise). The two stage muffler doesn't add any hp on the top end so rule that one out too.

Dave B

I think a lot of people asked why would you do it, not necessarily it couldn't be done. When I looked into the swap about 2.5 years and had my car side by side with a 2001 SE, there were numerous things I saw that would require a lot of fab work and modification. Also, according to the measurements of the DE-K manifold, I thought hood clearance and firewall clearance would be too tight. I figured the DE-K manifold would sit about 1" from all the lines along the firewall and that the top of the manifold would be a 1/2" from the hood. Seeing that the VQ rocks horribly in it's mounts and lifts upwards, I thought the clearance would be too tight in some situations. Shortly after comparing my DE to the DE-K, a few of us saw some pics of the euro-spec MEVI. After I saw that, I decided it would be far easier to swap like parts on the right motor.

We still don't know exactly what kind of power the DE-K manifold will make over the MEVI. I know that Steve made plot of what the MEVI on a stock DE "should" look like, but no one has ever done a dyno like this so it's a speculative. Russ dynoed his 01 to ~181fwhp and Steve's "stock" MEVI showed ~168fwhp. Personally, I disagree with Steve's plot because my MEVI alone gained me about 8 peak HP and I suffered no losses in power until about 3300rpms. Without a true stock MEVI dyno we-ll never know, but it's my opinion that a stock MEVI will make around 174fwhp, but that's another debate. I'll also note the MEVI actually gained me power below 3000rpms.

At various parts of the RPM band the DE-K surpasses the MEVI by 10-20hp and that is significant however comparing real DE-K numbers to estimated MEVI stock numbers isn't terribly accurate (see argument above). The powercurve shape of the MEVI compared to the DE-K are pretty much mirror images each other with both peaking at ~6100-6200rpms and then the power curve slowly drops off. I don't understand why people say the DE-K has a "longer" powerband because the dynos suggest both the DE-K and MEVI hold on to power bascially the same way and have the same peak rpms. The DE-K manifold, just like the MEVI, will definitely benefit from the JWT ECU. Krismax needs to see about 215fwhp/210fwtq to make this a legitimate bolt-on. 200-205fwhp/198-203fwtq is what MEVI bolt-on 4th gens are seeing.

My argument has been why do so much fab work when you can get a complete bolt-on setup (MEVI) that's easy to install? The power is definitely less, but you get peace of mind with the install. Swapping in the DE-K requires the DE-K fuel rails and injectors, rewiring the injectors, modification of the manifold, and a basic understanding of electronics, soldering, and automotive systems (vacuum, solenoids, emissions). Is all the extra work and potential hidden problems (ex. bad wiring = hellacious trouble shooting) worth the extra power? To most people the answer is no and to a select capable few the answer is yes.

Congrats to Krismax. There's no doubt his DE-K 4th will haul some serious butt assuming his valvetrain can handle the load.


Dave

BSwithTF

iTrader: (8)

I'm attempting a DE-k with MEVI first and then swap over to the '00 manifold. I'll try to get dyno's from each and see which is better and by how much.

It may be awhile though.

Thank you krismax and all who helped for pioneering this and showing it could be done.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

Very, very awesome. Good work, Krismax. Can't wait to see the dyno.


One question on behalf of the boosted folks, what options are there for larger injectors with this setup?

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

No, they're heavier. They used vanadium steel for the rods to reduce the weight, however not to VQ30 levels.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Any 350z injector.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

But aren't those only 290 cc/min? Sorry, I haven't been paying attention to the 5th gen injector discussions over in boosted. <== me



Nevermind, you're probably talking about aftermarket injectors for the 350Z, eh?

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

I haven't seen a flow chart for those injectors but if they are 280-290cc/min that would be at 3.0 bar which is the same as what the VQ30 uses. All of the new returnless Nissan systems are running at 3.5 bar.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Show me a stock DE+MEVI dyno that holds power from 6000-redline like this DEK:


Show me a ypipe/intake/catback/UDP DE+MEVI dyno that *PULLS* to redline like these THREE DEKs:


One more DEK+StillenIntake+Ypipe *PULLING* past 200whp@6K:


This is a PROTOTYPE. Once people start following his lead, easier/better methods will be found. After a while, the custom fab parts will be eliminated and this will end up being LESS money then the MEVI with a FUEL UPGRADE to boot.