Convert Your Maxima to a Hybrid - Better Fuel Econ. and More Power
02-02-2006, 01:29 PM
#1
Convert Your Maxima to a Hybrid - Better Fuel Econ. and More Power
So one day I got to thinking, "If I really want one, I could get the money for a Hybrid Car, but I don't really like what's available and don't want to buy a new car. The Prius, the Insight, and the Accord and Civic hybrids are ok, but not really what I want... Hey, what if someone invented a way to convert my car into a hybrid? If it didn't cost too much, I could get some fuel economy savings, a tax credit, and a pat on the back for having a hybrid car and doing my part to reduce pollution (like any good American would). Plus, someone could make a killing on that if it was done right, and I'd like to invest in such a product/company."
Thus, I did a Google search, and to my suprise I found that one already exists.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Electrocharger
http://www.sigmaautomotive.com/elect...trocharger.php
Name: Electrocharger
Specs:
Benefits:
I figure if they can pull it off, it would be good for all. Consider this, if it cost $2800, and you could get a $2000 tax credit, the add-on would only have to save you $800 pay off. Now, lets get real... tack on $1000+ for install, and then consider what the tax code actually says:
http://www.sigmaautomotive.com/elect...rocharger4.php
The IRS requires OEM certification. I only briefly looked through the document, so someone else please find a clause in the tax code above. So, $2800 material cost + $1000 or more for install - $2000 best case scenario tax break = $1800 that you would have to save in gas to pay off for this thing. They have a fuel economy breakdown on their website, but have not done conclusive testing yet.
Anyway, just thought I'd throw this bone out so ya'll can chew it up.
This whole thought process was stirred up by the President's State of the Union speech on energy, so... I also found this cool thing on daylight savings time: Change to Daylight Saving Time
The bill amends the Uniform Time Act of 1966 by changing the start and end dates of daylight saving time starting in 2007. Clocks will be set ahead one hour on the second Sunday of March instead of the current first Sunday of April. Clocks will be set back one hour on the first Sunday in November, rather than the last Sunday of October. This will affect accuracy of electronic clocks that had pre-programmed dates for adjusting to daylight saving time. The date for the end of daylight saving time has the effect of increasing evening light on Halloween (October 31). The first Sunday in November sometimes occurs as little as two days before election day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Policy_Act_of_2005
Thus, I did a Google search, and to my suprise I found that one already exists.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Electrocharger
http://www.sigmaautomotive.com/elect...trocharger.php
Name: Electrocharger
Specs:
- Some kind of add on that works like an alternator.
- Est. cost = $2800
Benefits:
- Adds power for acceleration
- Increases fuel economy
- Tax credit
I figure if they can pull it off, it would be good for all. Consider this, if it cost $2800, and you could get a $2000 tax credit, the add-on would only have to save you $800 pay off. Now, lets get real... tack on $1000+ for install, and then consider what the tax code actually says:
SECTION 3. PROCEDURE
.01 Original Equipment Manufacturer's Certification. An original equipment manufacturer (or in the case of a foreign original equipment manufacturer, its domestic distributor) may prepare a certification concerning the incremental cost of permitting the use of electricity to propel its vehicles.
.01 Original Equipment Manufacturer's Certification. An original equipment manufacturer (or in the case of a foreign original equipment manufacturer, its domestic distributor) may prepare a certification concerning the incremental cost of permitting the use of electricity to propel its vehicles.
The IRS requires OEM certification. I only briefly looked through the document, so someone else please find a clause in the tax code above. So, $2800 material cost + $1000 or more for install - $2000 best case scenario tax break = $1800 that you would have to save in gas to pay off for this thing. They have a fuel economy breakdown on their website, but have not done conclusive testing yet.
Anyway, just thought I'd throw this bone out so ya'll can chew it up.
This whole thought process was stirred up by the President's State of the Union speech on energy, so... I also found this cool thing on daylight savings time: Change to Daylight Saving Time
The bill amends the Uniform Time Act of 1966 by changing the start and end dates of daylight saving time starting in 2007. Clocks will be set ahead one hour on the second Sunday of March instead of the current first Sunday of April. Clocks will be set back one hour on the first Sunday in November, rather than the last Sunday of October. This will affect accuracy of electronic clocks that had pre-programmed dates for adjusting to daylight saving time. The date for the end of daylight saving time has the effect of increasing evening light on Halloween (October 31). The first Sunday in November sometimes occurs as little as two days before election day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Policy_Act_of_2005
02-02-2006, 02:17 PM
#3
and use more gas, therefore going completely against the point of this thread, making it an unnecessary response.
I for one, actually think this would be a good idea. save some gas, keep the max looks. If you want your car to be fast you dont really care about mileage, so this would satisfy the people that drive em for looks and are mad they get crap mileage.
Good find man!
I for one, actually think this would be a good idea. save some gas, keep the max looks. If you want your car to be fast you dont really care about mileage, so this would satisfy the people that drive em for looks and are mad they get crap mileage.
Good find man!
02-02-2006, 02:52 PM
#4
A) not enough room under the hood
B) it takes a lot of gas just to turn the generator! (negating the point)
C) smoke and mirrors!
If anything, you'll get worse milage because the generator will lose energy by giving off heat from friction.
B) it takes a lot of gas just to turn the generator! (negating the point)
C) smoke and mirrors!
If anything, you'll get worse milage because the generator will lose energy by giving off heat from friction.
02-02-2006, 03:14 PM
#6
Originally Posted by RockfordMax
and use more gas, therefore going completely against the point of this thread, making it an unnecessary response.Good find man!
Where do you come off telling me my response is unecessary? My point, maybe I didn't explicity say it, is that although it sounds good on paper, I don't see how this would give you both increase in performance and good gas mileage. Thanks 
02-02-2006, 03:22 PM
#7
lol sorry that wasnt me posting, was at my neighbors house. I agree completely that the cons outweigh the pros, The thing is a massive beast... Notice how they havent quoted ANY performance specs and the only applications theyve used it on are show cars?
once again sorry that happened. hope theres no hard feelings
once again sorry that happened. hope theres no hard feelings
02-02-2006, 03:24 PM
#8
Originally Posted by RockfordMax
lol sorry that wasnt me posting, was at my neighbors house. I agree completely that the cons outweigh the pros, The thing is a massive beast... Notice how they havent quoted ANY performance specs and the only applications theyve used it on are show cars?
once again sorry that happened. hope theres no hard feelings
once again sorry that happened. hope theres no hard feelings
02-02-2006, 03:32 PM
#10
Ahem..... back to the matter at hand. Description of how it works from the PESWiki link I posted:
There are four essential components involved:
1. The Charger - relays between acceleration and deceleration.
2. The Super Capacitor Battery Pack (SCBP) - to store the energy
3. The Motor - to add accelerative power to the vehicle
4. The Motor Control Unit (MCU)
Electrocharger motor affixed to engine by toothed drive belt
Electrocharger motor affixed to engine by toothed drive belt
The ElectroCharger replaces the alternator and runs in parallel with the engine. The electric motor is mounted to the vehicle’s engine with a purpose built aluminum bracket. The motor is computer-controlled and fitted to the vehicle through a vehicle specific sprocket ratio via a toothed drive belt.
The ElectroCharger is powered by a Super Capacitor Battery Pack (SCBP) located in the trunk of the vehicle. When it is not assisting acceleration, the ElectroCharger switches to generator mode to maintain the battery pack and provides power to the vehicles electrical system. Most of the recharge power comes during braking or deceleration. During acceleration, the SCBP feeds the motor up to 600 amps at 48 volts. The SCBP is designed to handle the sudden flux of current during regenerative braking.
The Motor Control Unit (MCU), a separate module, 1) controls the electric motor, 2) provides vehicle electrical system voltage and 3) monitors the engine load in order to coordinate electric motor power addition to the engine. The MCU is user programmable to be customized and tweaked by experienced consumers.
1. The Charger - relays between acceleration and deceleration.
2. The Super Capacitor Battery Pack (SCBP) - to store the energy
3. The Motor - to add accelerative power to the vehicle
4. The Motor Control Unit (MCU)
Electrocharger motor affixed to engine by toothed drive belt
Electrocharger motor affixed to engine by toothed drive belt
The ElectroCharger replaces the alternator and runs in parallel with the engine. The electric motor is mounted to the vehicle’s engine with a purpose built aluminum bracket. The motor is computer-controlled and fitted to the vehicle through a vehicle specific sprocket ratio via a toothed drive belt.
The ElectroCharger is powered by a Super Capacitor Battery Pack (SCBP) located in the trunk of the vehicle. When it is not assisting acceleration, the ElectroCharger switches to generator mode to maintain the battery pack and provides power to the vehicles electrical system. Most of the recharge power comes during braking or deceleration. During acceleration, the SCBP feeds the motor up to 600 amps at 48 volts. The SCBP is designed to handle the sudden flux of current during regenerative braking.
The Motor Control Unit (MCU), a separate module, 1) controls the electric motor, 2) provides vehicle electrical system voltage and 3) monitors the engine load in order to coordinate electric motor power addition to the engine. The MCU is user programmable to be customized and tweaked by experienced consumers.
02-02-2006, 03:40 PM
#11
It would take a lot more than a little $2800 add on to turn your car into a hybrid. I know that the batteries for a normal hybrid costs at least $2000. The only thing that this thing probably has is a big capacitor, which can hold a lot of charge but not for very long time. Also, it would take way too much customization and hundreds of man hours in order to make a maxima into a true hybrid.
There's nothing in that link that suggests that this product would provide any significant improvement in fuel economy or acceleration. Hybrids are known for their acceleration because DC motors have the ability to produce 100% of the tourque as soon as voltage is applied (the dyno on fully electric motor would be a straight horizontal line).
This thing probably works to some extent, but not enough to justify going throught the trouble and expense of buying and installing one. It's a good idea, but not practical for our cars. If you want a hybrid, buy a hybrid.
There's nothing in that link that suggests that this product would provide any significant improvement in fuel economy or acceleration. Hybrids are known for their acceleration because DC motors have the ability to produce 100% of the tourque as soon as voltage is applied (the dyno on fully electric motor would be a straight horizontal line).
This thing probably works to some extent, but not enough to justify going throught the trouble and expense of buying and installing one. It's a good idea, but not practical for our cars. If you want a hybrid, buy a hybrid.
02-02-2006, 03:42 PM
#12
Originally Posted by thisasian
Ahem..... back to the matter at hand. Description of how it works from the PESWiki link I posted:
If you argue for it more, I'm just gonna have to start flamming you. BTW: I'm a mechanical engineer...
02-02-2006, 03:43 PM
#13
Originally Posted by bigtimber
It would take a lot more than a little $2800 add on to turn your car into a hybrid. I know that the batteries for a normal hybrid costs at least $2000. The only thing that this thing probably has is a big capacitor, which can hold a lot of charge but not for very long time. Also, it would take way too much customization and hundreds of man hours in order to make a maxima into a true hybrid.
There's nothing in that link that suggests that this product would provide any significant improvement in fuel economy or acceleration. Hybrids are known for their acceleration because DC motors have the ability to produce 100% of the tourque as soon as voltage is applied (the dyno on fully electric motor would be a straight horizontal line).
This thing probably works to some extent, but not enough to justify going throught the trouble and expense of buying and installing one. It's a good idea, but not practical for our cars. If you want a hybrid, buy a hybrid.
There's nothing in that link that suggests that this product would provide any significant improvement in fuel economy or acceleration. Hybrids are known for their acceleration because DC motors have the ability to produce 100% of the tourque as soon as voltage is applied (the dyno on fully electric motor would be a straight horizontal line).
This thing probably works to some extent, but not enough to justify going throught the trouble and expense of buying and installing one. It's a good idea, but not practical for our cars. If you want a hybrid, buy a hybrid.
02-02-2006, 04:03 PM
#14
Originally Posted by GBAUER
Back to my explaination from above: you can't get energy from nothing! The way a true hybrid works is it takes energy from braking and applies it to acceleration. This system takes energy from the engine while driving, stores it up and lets it go once you acceleration (in theory....). The problem is that energy is lost during the charging of the batter via friction in the mechanical systems used to change the kinetic energy to electrical energy. This system would have to majically produce energy from no source whatsoever to do what they say it will.
If you argue for it more, I'm just gonna have to start flamming you. BTW: I'm a mechanical engineer...
If you argue for it more, I'm just gonna have to start flamming you. BTW: I'm a mechanical engineer...
BTW I'm studying mechanical engineering as well
02-02-2006, 06:02 PM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 484
this can be done...
my boss at my old work place converted his passat to run strictly on vegetable oil...he could go to restaurants because they were giving it away for free.
but yea all the needed room was found in his trunk. he paid about 4k total i believe. man imagine not having to pay for gas again...
-myke
my boss at my old work place converted his passat to run strictly on vegetable oil...he could go to restaurants because they were giving it away for free.
but yea all the needed room was found in his trunk. he paid about 4k total i believe. man imagine not having to pay for gas again...-myke
02-02-2006, 06:20 PM
#23
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,307
I'll further add that, although there has been a lot of buzz about supercapacitors, they only hold a fraction of the charge of a traditional battery (given the same volume). Plus, as a couple people have already pointed out, your real energy savings comes from recapturing energy during braking and using that during acceleration. In order to do that with a parallel feed generator, you would need to downshift/engine brake as you come to a stop. Otherwise, it really is a zero-sum game. Besides, it's been pretty definitely shown that the fuel savings (if any) don't really justify the added cost of hybrid systems. So don't do it if your main motivation is saving money.
The best option is to drive conservatively. I do however, share your philosophy. I wish someone would develop a retrofited displacement on demand system. I thought about using a manual switch to cut the injectors to 2 cylinders, but that's probably not a good idea. Oh well. It's one of those things I've had to learn to live with.
The best option is to drive conservatively. I do however, share your philosophy. I wish someone would develop a retrofited displacement on demand system. I thought about using a manual switch to cut the injectors to 2 cylinders, but that's probably not a good idea. Oh well. It's one of those things I've had to learn to live with.
02-02-2006, 06:44 PM
#24
Quite honestly, this is too primitive to do much good. If anything you'll get worst mileage because of it. Compared to existing hybrid systems, the electric motor can be disengaged from the gas motor when it's not needed.
S
S
02-02-2006, 07:04 PM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Manitoba
Posts: 1,805
If you want a hybrid just go for the Prius. Our Accord Hybrid (while fast and a nice car) doesn't even get the greatest gas mileage...its much better to have a full hybrid instead of one that just uses the electric motor to boost power.
02-02-2006, 07:53 PM
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 230
I've heard of University retrofitting a Toy Prius with a wall outlet plug-in mod and charging the batteries to peak. Then getting approx 100+ MPG with that mod. (I think they quoted 180 MPG at some point.) But Toyota and Honda said their batteries were not made for the deep cycle like that. They were designed to stay at 50% charge and run that way for 7 years. Full charge and deep cycles will kill the batteries sooner.
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