VW GTI VR6 vs 4th Gen Max... results. Debate finally over.
06-30-2001, 01:49 AM
#1
Well a few weeks ago I posted about an upcoming race with a modded VW GTi VR6.
Guess what, tonight it happened, and now we can finally know definitively the
outcome of this race.
The VW GTi has a Garrett Chip, ABD (or ABT, I couldn't tell what he said) intake,
and a Thermal R&D exhaust. My maxima has nothing done as far as power mods go.
We found a nice unused industrial road, and raced 2 times, with probably 20
spectators. The distance we used had to be almost exactly 1/4 mile, because we
both got into the low 90's MPH range.
1st run, the flagger girl said "1-2-3-Go" really quickly and I hadn't gotten my RPMs
steady, and launched too hard and spun the tires a little excessively. My front
bumper was at his door, and it stayed there. No one budged, he didn't pull, I didn't
make up any ground. It was dead even after the launch. He was impressed, as were
the spectators who were shocked to find out that the Max was bone stock.
We raced again about 10 minutes later, and the outcome was the same, except I
got a better launch than previously. I told the flagger girl to wait for a second
before she started counting, and to drop raise her hands and then drop them
instead of counting. I did a 2500 RPM launch, got a bit of spin, manipulated the
throttle a bit to get them to stop spinning, and went from there. It was a dead
heat. It was like I was racing along side a big mirror and looking at my own
reflection. I've never had a race that even... we were mirror images of eachother.
We looked back and forth probably 8 times during the 15 seconds or so that we
raced. We tied, plain and simple. Afterwards he showed me his timeslips from
Stanton, Michigan, that he had just gotten on Wednesday. His best was a
14.93@93.5 mph and the first comment out of his mouth about the track was "that
track is S#!t". So I figure I'll be turning the same sort of time slips when i go to the
track, of course when I go I won't have any subs in the trunk or a spare or a jack
and i'll be on 15" wheels instead of 17"s.
Anyways, thats how it ended up. The argument can be put to rest now. (Heh yeah
right, I know there are going to be arguments about this for the next week.)
Guess what, tonight it happened, and now we can finally know definitively the
outcome of this race.
The VW GTi has a Garrett Chip, ABD (or ABT, I couldn't tell what he said) intake,
and a Thermal R&D exhaust. My maxima has nothing done as far as power mods go.
We found a nice unused industrial road, and raced 2 times, with probably 20
spectators. The distance we used had to be almost exactly 1/4 mile, because we
both got into the low 90's MPH range.
1st run, the flagger girl said "1-2-3-Go" really quickly and I hadn't gotten my RPMs
steady, and launched too hard and spun the tires a little excessively. My front
bumper was at his door, and it stayed there. No one budged, he didn't pull, I didn't
make up any ground. It was dead even after the launch. He was impressed, as were
the spectators who were shocked to find out that the Max was bone stock.
We raced again about 10 minutes later, and the outcome was the same, except I
got a better launch than previously. I told the flagger girl to wait for a second
before she started counting, and to drop raise her hands and then drop them
instead of counting. I did a 2500 RPM launch, got a bit of spin, manipulated the
throttle a bit to get them to stop spinning, and went from there. It was a dead
heat. It was like I was racing along side a big mirror and looking at my own
reflection. I've never had a race that even... we were mirror images of eachother.
We looked back and forth probably 8 times during the 15 seconds or so that we
raced. We tied, plain and simple. Afterwards he showed me his timeslips from
Stanton, Michigan, that he had just gotten on Wednesday. His best was a
14.93@93.5 mph and the first comment out of his mouth about the track was "that
track is S#!t". So I figure I'll be turning the same sort of time slips when i go to the
track, of course when I go I won't have any subs in the trunk or a spare or a jack
and i'll be on 15" wheels instead of 17"s.
Anyways, thats how it ended up. The argument can be put to rest now. (Heh yeah
right, I know there are going to be arguments about this for the next week.)
06-30-2001, 05:48 AM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
But the 2000-2001 are faster per the club. Whatever VW did to that year, it seemed to have made a difference.
Originally posted by Nealoc187
Well a few weeks ago I posted about an upcoming race with a modded VW GTi VR6.
Guess what, tonight it happened, and now we can finally know definitively the
outcome of this race.
The VW GTi has a Garrett Chip, ABD (or ABT, I couldn't tell what he said) intake,
and a Thermal R&D exhaust. My maxima has nothing done as far as power mods go.
We found a nice unused industrial road, and raced 2 times, with probably 20
spectators. The distance we used had to be almost exactly 1/4 mile, because we
both got into the low 90's MPH range.
1st run, the flagger girl said "1-2-3-Go" really quickly and I hadn't gotten my RPMs
steady, and launched too hard and spun the tires a little excessively. My front
bumper was at his door, and it stayed there. No one budged, he didn't pull, I didn't
make up any ground. It was dead even after the launch. He was impressed, as were
the spectators who were shocked to find out that the Max was bone stock.
We raced again about 10 minutes later, and the outcome was the same, except I
got a better launch than previously. I told the flagger girl to wait for a second
before she started counting, and to drop raise her hands and then drop them
instead of counting. I did a 2500 RPM launch, got a bit of spin, manipulated the
throttle a bit to get them to stop spinning, and went from there. It was a dead
heat. It was like I was racing along side a big mirror and looking at my own
reflection. I've never had a race that even... we were mirror images of eachother.
We looked back and forth probably 8 times during the 15 seconds or so that we
raced. We tied, plain and simple. Afterwards he showed me his timeslips from
Stanton, Michigan, that he had just gotten on Wednesday. His best was a
14.93@93.5 mph and the first comment out of his mouth about the track was "that
track is S#!t". So I figure I'll be turning the same sort of time slips when i go to the
track, of course when I go I won't have any subs in the trunk or a spare or a jack
and i'll be on 15" wheels instead of 17"s.
Anyways, thats how it ended up. The argument can be put to rest now. (Heh yeah
right, I know there are going to be arguments about this for the next week.)
Well a few weeks ago I posted about an upcoming race with a modded VW GTi VR6.
Guess what, tonight it happened, and now we can finally know definitively the
outcome of this race.
The VW GTi has a Garrett Chip, ABD (or ABT, I couldn't tell what he said) intake,
and a Thermal R&D exhaust. My maxima has nothing done as far as power mods go.
We found a nice unused industrial road, and raced 2 times, with probably 20
spectators. The distance we used had to be almost exactly 1/4 mile, because we
both got into the low 90's MPH range.
1st run, the flagger girl said "1-2-3-Go" really quickly and I hadn't gotten my RPMs
steady, and launched too hard and spun the tires a little excessively. My front
bumper was at his door, and it stayed there. No one budged, he didn't pull, I didn't
make up any ground. It was dead even after the launch. He was impressed, as were
the spectators who were shocked to find out that the Max was bone stock.
We raced again about 10 minutes later, and the outcome was the same, except I
got a better launch than previously. I told the flagger girl to wait for a second
before she started counting, and to drop raise her hands and then drop them
instead of counting. I did a 2500 RPM launch, got a bit of spin, manipulated the
throttle a bit to get them to stop spinning, and went from there. It was a dead
heat. It was like I was racing along side a big mirror and looking at my own
reflection. I've never had a race that even... we were mirror images of eachother.
We looked back and forth probably 8 times during the 15 seconds or so that we
raced. We tied, plain and simple. Afterwards he showed me his timeslips from
Stanton, Michigan, that he had just gotten on Wednesday. His best was a
14.93@93.5 mph and the first comment out of his mouth about the track was "that
track is S#!t". So I figure I'll be turning the same sort of time slips when i go to the
track, of course when I go I won't have any subs in the trunk or a spare or a jack
and i'll be on 15" wheels instead of 17"s.
Anyways, thats how it ended up. The argument can be put to rest now. (Heh yeah
right, I know there are going to be arguments about this for the next week.)
06-30-2001, 11:22 AM
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
It is their 4th gear that would pull on you. That would have been interesting to go from a dead stop to 120. If the mod monster takes over on you and you decide to get a Y-Pipe and intake....look out!
Originally posted by Nealoc187
Well a few weeks ago I posted about an upcoming race with a modded VW GTi VR6.
Guess what, tonight it happened, and now we can finally know definitively the
outcome of this race.
The VW GTi has a Garrett Chip, ABD (or ABT, I couldn't tell what he said) intake,
and a Thermal R&D exhaust. My maxima has nothing done as far as power mods go.
We found a nice unused industrial road, and raced 2 times, with probably 20
spectators. The distance we used had to be almost exactly 1/4 mile, because we
both got into the low 90's MPH range.
1st run, the flagger girl said "1-2-3-Go" really quickly and I hadn't gotten my RPMs
steady, and launched too hard and spun the tires a little excessively. My front
bumper was at his door, and it stayed there. No one budged, he didn't pull, I didn't
make up any ground. It was dead even after the launch. He was impressed, as were
the spectators who were shocked to find out that the Max was bone stock.
We raced again about 10 minutes later, and the outcome was the same, except I
got a better launch than previously. I told the flagger girl to wait for a second
before she started counting, and to drop raise her hands and then drop them
instead of counting. I did a 2500 RPM launch, got a bit of spin, manipulated the
throttle a bit to get them to stop spinning, and went from there. It was a dead
heat. It was like I was racing along side a big mirror and looking at my own
reflection. I've never had a race that even... we were mirror images of eachother.
We looked back and forth probably 8 times during the 15 seconds or so that we
raced. We tied, plain and simple. Afterwards he showed me his timeslips from
Stanton, Michigan, that he had just gotten on Wednesday. His best was a
14.93@93.5 mph and the first comment out of his mouth about the track was "that
track is S#!t". So I figure I'll be turning the same sort of time slips when i go to the
track, of course when I go I won't have any subs in the trunk or a spare or a jack
and i'll be on 15" wheels instead of 17"s.
Anyways, thats how it ended up. The argument can be put to rest now. (Heh yeah
right, I know there are going to be arguments about this for the next week.)
Well a few weeks ago I posted about an upcoming race with a modded VW GTi VR6.
Guess what, tonight it happened, and now we can finally know definitively the
outcome of this race.
The VW GTi has a Garrett Chip, ABD (or ABT, I couldn't tell what he said) intake,
and a Thermal R&D exhaust. My maxima has nothing done as far as power mods go.
We found a nice unused industrial road, and raced 2 times, with probably 20
spectators. The distance we used had to be almost exactly 1/4 mile, because we
both got into the low 90's MPH range.
1st run, the flagger girl said "1-2-3-Go" really quickly and I hadn't gotten my RPMs
steady, and launched too hard and spun the tires a little excessively. My front
bumper was at his door, and it stayed there. No one budged, he didn't pull, I didn't
make up any ground. It was dead even after the launch. He was impressed, as were
the spectators who were shocked to find out that the Max was bone stock.
We raced again about 10 minutes later, and the outcome was the same, except I
got a better launch than previously. I told the flagger girl to wait for a second
before she started counting, and to drop raise her hands and then drop them
instead of counting. I did a 2500 RPM launch, got a bit of spin, manipulated the
throttle a bit to get them to stop spinning, and went from there. It was a dead
heat. It was like I was racing along side a big mirror and looking at my own
reflection. I've never had a race that even... we were mirror images of eachother.
We looked back and forth probably 8 times during the 15 seconds or so that we
raced. We tied, plain and simple. Afterwards he showed me his timeslips from
Stanton, Michigan, that he had just gotten on Wednesday. His best was a
14.93@93.5 mph and the first comment out of his mouth about the track was "that
track is S#!t". So I figure I'll be turning the same sort of time slips when i go to the
track, of course when I go I won't have any subs in the trunk or a spare or a jack
and i'll be on 15" wheels instead of 17"s.
Anyways, thats how it ended up. The argument can be put to rest now. (Heh yeah
right, I know there are going to be arguments about this for the next week.)
06-30-2001, 11:29 AM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
I disagree...the newer gti are heavier generally...also have 17" rims vs 15" lighter rims. The engines are the same putting out the same power and gear ratios are essentially the same (very nice I might add). I've seen a friend of mine in his last gen VR6 take out a 2K GTI easily both with good starts. Most reviews of older gti vr6 complain that 0-60 times are slower than expected mainly because of the stock tires and bad hook up. Upgraded tires from stock will make a significant difference on a GTI VR6. That is all the proof I need..I guess VW wants everyone to believe there new car is faster than the older one.. but it is not and if it is it would be so marginal almost unnoticable. Check with the guys over at vwvortex.com. My buddy has also had his car at 230KM/Hr+ which is over 140mph actually passed a Boxter who hit his speed limiter. Not too many NA Maximas are going over 140mph.
Originally posted by RussMaxManiac
But the 2000-2001 are faster per the club. Whatever VW did to that year, it seemed to have made a difference.
But the 2000-2001 are faster per the club. Whatever VW did to that year, it seemed to have made a difference.
06-30-2001, 05:02 PM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well, my friend ran a 15.4 at 92 mph with 2.5 60fts because he could not get a lanch. And he is STOCK in his 2001 GTI vr6. Sorry but they are faster!
Originally posted by PhatGuy
I disagree...the newer gti are heavier generally...also have 17" rims vs 15" lighter rims. The engines are the same putting out the same power and gear ratios are essentially the same (very nice I might add). I've seen a friend of mine in his last gen VR6 take out a 2K GTI easily both with good starts. Most reviews of older gti vr6 complain that 0-60 times are slower than expected mainly because of the stock tires and bad hook up. Upgraded tires from stock will make a significant difference on a GTI VR6. That is all the proof I need..I guess VW wants everyone to believe there new car is faster than the older one.. but it is not and if it is it would be so marginal almost unnoticable. Check with the guys over at vwvortex.com. My buddy has also had his car at 230KM/Hr+ which is over 140mph actually passed a Boxter who hit his speed limiter. Not too many NA Maximas are going over 140mph.
I disagree...the newer gti are heavier generally...also have 17" rims vs 15" lighter rims. The engines are the same putting out the same power and gear ratios are essentially the same (very nice I might add). I've seen a friend of mine in his last gen VR6 take out a 2K GTI easily both with good starts. Most reviews of older gti vr6 complain that 0-60 times are slower than expected mainly because of the stock tires and bad hook up. Upgraded tires from stock will make a significant difference on a GTI VR6. That is all the proof I need..I guess VW wants everyone to believe there new car is faster than the older one.. but it is not and if it is it would be so marginal almost unnoticable. Check with the guys over at vwvortex.com. My buddy has also had his car at 230KM/Hr+ which is over 140mph actually passed a Boxter who hit his speed limiter. Not too many NA Maximas are going over 140mph.
06-30-2001, 05:09 PM
#7
sorry but i have to agree with Russ on this one.. the 2001 GTI VR6 with a good driver will run 14.8 and they will walk a stock 5spd 5th Gen.. sorry to break it to you boys..
my friend has a bone stock 2k1 GTI VR6 and if i don't lauch good on him.. i only slowly pull away from him.. those things are underrated and fast
my friend has a bone stock 2k1 GTI VR6 and if i don't lauch good on him.. i only slowly pull away from him.. those things are underrated and fast
Originally posted by RussMaxManiac
Well, my friend ran a 15.4 at 92 mph with 2.5 60fts because he could not get a lanch. And he is STOCK in his 2001 GTI vr6. Sorry but they are faster!
Well, my friend ran a 15.4 at 92 mph with 2.5 60fts because he could not get a lanch. And he is STOCK in his 2001 GTI vr6. Sorry but they are faster!
06-30-2001, 05:32 PM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
I think the issue in question was an A3 GTI Vr6 vs a A4 GTI VR6. My question being what makes the A4 faster than an A3 aside from tires? The engine outputs are the same..the tranny/ratio is essentially the same....just curious as to what makes an A4 faster than an A3?? I've seen an A3 VR6 smoke a A4 VR6 with even starts...that is all I need to know but still curious?
I'm not worried about VR6 GTI too much even if they have mods aside from turbo/sc/nos.
I'm not worried about VR6 GTI too much even if they have mods aside from turbo/sc/nos.
Originally posted by SprintMax
sorry but i have to agree with Russ on this one.. the 2001 GTI VR6 with a good driver will run 14.8 and they will walk a stock 5spd 5th Gen.. sorry to break it to you boys..
my friend has a bone stock 2k1 GTI VR6 and if i don't lauch good on him.. i only slowly pull away from him.. those things are underrated and fast
sorry but i have to agree with Russ on this one.. the 2001 GTI VR6 with a good driver will run 14.8 and they will walk a stock 5spd 5th Gen.. sorry to break it to you boys..
my friend has a bone stock 2k1 GTI VR6 and if i don't lauch good on him.. i only slowly pull away from him.. those things are underrated and fast
06-30-2001, 10:01 PM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
I posted at vwvortex.com about GTI VR6 A3 vs A4
http://forums.vwvortex.com/vwbb/Forum3/HTML/022617.html
and
http://forums.vwvortex.com/vwbb/Forum4/HTML/039137.html
Looks like it could go either way or at least even. The mk3 is lighter and the mk4 seems to have a change on the manifold for a few extra HP. Nealoc187 good job hanging even with that guy especially since he has mods!
http://forums.vwvortex.com/vwbb/Forum3/HTML/022617.html
and
http://forums.vwvortex.com/vwbb/Forum4/HTML/039137.html
Looks like it could go either way or at least even. The mk3 is lighter and the mk4 seems to have a change on the manifold for a few extra HP. Nealoc187 good job hanging even with that guy especially since he has mods!
07-02-2001, 12:06 AM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Guys, I'm a visitor from VWVortex (use a different username there).
But the 1999 and newer A4 GTI VR6 and the 1995-1998 A3 GTI VR6 are almost identical in speed.
The A4 gained about 200 pounds on the A3.
But, the A4 gained 2 HP and 8 lbs-ft of torque. Plus the axle ratio remained the same, but the A4 got a bit more aggressive 1st and 2nd gear ratio.
So combined with the better gearing and slight power increase (due to intake and exhaust tweaks) those two things pretty much offset the weight gain.
I own a GTI 1.8T, but had a Passat VR6 before and have driven both GTI VR6's.
They are essentially neck and neck. The lighter A3 GTI VR6 might pull a bit on the A4 from 3rd gear on, but the A4 will jump out of the hole quicker. But by 100 mph the cars will probably be pretty much dead even.
But the 1999 and newer A4 GTI VR6 and the 1995-1998 A3 GTI VR6 are almost identical in speed.
The A4 gained about 200 pounds on the A3.
But, the A4 gained 2 HP and 8 lbs-ft of torque. Plus the axle ratio remained the same, but the A4 got a bit more aggressive 1st and 2nd gear ratio.
So combined with the better gearing and slight power increase (due to intake and exhaust tweaks) those two things pretty much offset the weight gain.
I own a GTI 1.8T, but had a Passat VR6 before and have driven both GTI VR6's.
They are essentially neck and neck. The lighter A3 GTI VR6 might pull a bit on the A4 from 3rd gear on, but the A4 will jump out of the hole quicker. But by 100 mph the cars will probably be pretty much dead even.
07-03-2001, 03:41 PM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 939
Originally posted by SprintMax
sorry but i have to agree with Russ on this one.. the 2001 GTI VR6 with a good driver will run 14.8 and they will walk a stock 5spd 5th Gen.. sorry to break it to you boys..
sorry but i have to agree with Russ on this one.. the 2001 GTI VR6 with a good driver will run 14.8 and they will walk a stock 5spd 5th Gen.. sorry to break it to you boys..
07-03-2001, 11:03 PM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,020
Originally posted by PhatGuy
.....Not too many NA Maximas are going over 140mph.
.....Not too many NA Maximas are going over 140mph.
07-03-2001, 11:15 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,145
there is no way you can beat a stock VR6 with a stock maxima, they are just faster, they weigh less. a good driver can beat a good driver in a max, i guess the one who was driving in the VR6 you raced really sucked, cuz with all those mods he should have smoked your 4th Generation max, i know Russ posted couple of times that he raced his friend 2001 VR6 and he the VR6 just pulled on him.
BTW there 3rd gear really pulls hard
BTW there 3rd gear really pulls hard
07-04-2001, 07:35 AM
#16
why don't you look at madmax2k's sig.. he is not your average driver.. he could probably beat you in a 5spd Civic
Originally posted by 2001SE
there is no way you can beat a stock VR6 with a stock maxima, they are just faster, they weigh less. a good driver can beat a good driver in a max, i guess the one who was driving in the VR6 you raced really sucked, cuz with all those mods he should have smoked your 4th Generation max, i know Russ posted couple of times that he raced his friend 2001 VR6 and he the VR6 just pulled on him.
BTW there 3rd gear really pulls hard
there is no way you can beat a stock VR6 with a stock maxima, they are just faster, they weigh less. a good driver can beat a good driver in a max, i guess the one who was driving in the VR6 you raced really sucked, cuz with all those mods he should have smoked your 4th Generation max, i know Russ posted couple of times that he raced his friend 2001 VR6 and he the VR6 just pulled on him.
BTW there 3rd gear really pulls hard
07-04-2001, 07:59 AM
#17
My friend at work has a 2k VR6 with no mods. On straight aways I think I was a little quicker, but we both had people in the cars. But in the turns his car handled so much better.
Maybe in power it would be close, but in handling it's a totally different story.
Maybe in power it would be close, but in handling it's a totally different story.
07-04-2001, 08:17 AM
#18
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 3,150
I raced a 97ish VR6 GTI from about 60-130mph and held that speed for about 2 mins... I took him by a little and he took an exit before I could pull him over to get the low down on his mods. Anyway, a friend of mine just got a new GTI VR6 a few days ago and once he breaks it in we'll race at the track and I'll get back to you guys with results. At my local track I saw a couple GTIs running low 15s so i'm not too afraid of them.
07-04-2001, 10:27 AM
#19
LOL
2001SE- yeah he must have really sucked. he just ran a 14.93 on a track that is notoriously slow. <sarcasm>Sounds like he sucked to me.</sarcasm> Perhaps it's because you "really suck" that you are unable to hang with them, other drivers can, and do, as evidenced by this thread and others. Please get a clue before you go posting about things you haven't the slightest clue about.
07-05-2001, 01:32 PM
#20
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
Originally posted by RussMaxManiac
Well, my friend ran a 15.4 at 92 mph with 2.5 60fts because he could not get a lanch. And he is STOCK in his 2001 GTI vr6. Sorry but they are faster!
Well, my friend ran a 15.4 at 92 mph with 2.5 60fts because he could not get a lanch. And he is STOCK in his 2001 GTI vr6. Sorry but they are faster!
Your giving your buddies VR6 WAY TOO MUCH credit. He ran a 15.4@92 with a 2.5 60 foot. You ran a 15.3@91 with nearly a 2.4 60 foot. Comparing those two ets shows me that it's WAY TOO CLOSE to call. He might have smoked you on the street, but that means nothing. You smoked me to 60 on the street, but my car is a bit quicker than yours when you look at our timeslips. Point being, the VR6 isn't extremely quick. It's an awesome car, but they're not what you guys make them out to be.
The guys over VWVortex get a kick out of all you because they know the VR6 is just as quick if not a little slower than the 4th/5th gen Maxima. Guys running 14s in VR6s are about as rare as guys running 14s in Maximas.....it happens, but the majority are in the 15s. A stock VR6 puts down about 165fwhp and tq. The 4th gen VQ puts out about the same plus a little more torque. The VR6s weigh just as much as the 4th gen 5 speeds.
Dave
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Violator
4th Generation Classifieds (1995-1999)
1
09-09-2015 10:14 AM
trungg86
4th Generation Maxima (1995-1999)
7
09-04-2015 04:58 AM
Justin Kroll
5th Generation Maxima (2000-2003)
7
09-02-2015 11:06 AM