MarcJD

I admire your ambition. I would probably do it myself (not for my car, but for you all) if it weren't for the fact that I am busy finishing up my Masters and getting ready for OCS (Officer Candidate School) for the Navy. If you could tap into the Tachometer or something then that would work. Good luck with it! Just make sure that you absolutely do not starve your engine of air...it will cry.

Turbo95Max

iTrader: (25)

well, i havent been reading the disccuions cause their too long..heeh

i dont belive a dual filter setup(dual pop charger) will have any benifit. Your engine can only suck up so much air, if you add an extra filter, it wont need it.
My friend's Z has the dual pop charger. He pushes close to 600hp. Supposely, you dont need the dual pop until levels above 500hp.

_DRU_

but is there any proof of the engine getting enough air right now? has anyone ever dynoed there car without any type of filter of piping what so ever compared to having a cone filter? with out hard proof, our engine may not be getting as much air as it could handle with a cone filter or whatever. anyone know what i mean?

MaDMaX024

i'm not going dual pop. single pop, single CAI. i would have the valve setup to block the popcharger only beacuse i dont think it would matter if the engine could breathe through both once the valve is opened (even though it would primarily utilize the pop only once the valve is opened).

MaDMaX024

how would i actually get the valve to move, tapping into wires isnt very hard, i'd probably use a relay or resistor of some sort, but this is all new to me. i'm guessing i'd use a voltage tester and get a relay or resistor to correspond with the output at a certain RPM and up..it would make more sense to "rig" this system to the second intake runner, i think that would give the most power. any ideas on that?
i'll be talking to my dad in a little while, so i need measurements for the CAI, just general lengths. whats the pipes diameter? 3 inch?

Neptune97

OK, I spent two hours at work doing this, so hopefully people will be able to view this.

Open the drawing, then refer to the notes below. If you want, PM me with your email address, and I can email you a bigger copy of the file (the text might be too small to read):


(Sorry this is so long)

NOTES:

Here is my idea for a combination cold air intake / high flow under hood intake (this will work with someone that already has a CAI installed).

Basically, you cut a section out of the CAI piping as shown and throw it away. The new construction will fit where the section of CAI piping was removed. Each side of the new construction (I'll call it a plenum from now on) will have clips that can be attached to each end of the CAI piping as shown. The purpose of the new plenum will be to house one of those circular filters commonly seen on older hot rods (ie the carburetor of an old big block). The plenum will be divided into two sections held together by clips at the outer edge of the plenum. during low RPM operation, the moveable hollow 3" cylinder (probably made of sheet metal) will completely block the plenum, allowing no air to pull through the plenum. The system will operate as a normal CAI does. However, when the engine reaches a certain RPM, this hollow cylinder will slide to the left as shown on the plan. It will open up the plenum, and allow the engine to pull air through the circular filter instead (it will want to pull from under the hood since the path the air has to travel has less of a pressure drop than the CAI route).

And thats it. I think this setup will work better than having a Y shaped section with the CAI off one branch and the popcharger off the other. We want as few connections/elbows/piping as possible, and this setup acheives that.

As for how to make the hollow cylinder move: This of course is the hard part. The easiest way would be to have a little lever near the steering wheel, and have a cable connected directly to this cylinder. When the lever is moved, the cable moves, and pulls the cylinder to the left. Attach a spring to the cylinder, and it would automatically move back to the CAI configuration when you let go of the lever.

If we wanted to have absolutely no driver input, we could use the airflow through this setup to hold the cylinder to the left after a certain airflow amount is exceeded. For example, we could put some small grooves in the hollow cylinder, and a certain speed of air (corresponding to a certain volume of air through the pipe, ie a certain RPM) would exert enough force on these grooves to push the cylinder open (we would just have to find a spring with a certain tension to match the friction created by a certain amount of air pushing into these grooves).

Of course, I went out to my car, looked at the space under the hood, and realized that we probably don't have enough room for this circular filter. They do make filters as small as 8" in diameter, but I'm not sure if even that will fit. If it doesn't, why not just use your existing stillen/jwt popcharger? As far as I know, the center of those popchargers is hollow. We could just cut a 3" diameter hole in the end of the popcharger, and use the cone filter in the same way was we used the plenum above (the filter itself would be the plenum...we would just have to slide a 3" hollow cylinder through the hole in the cone filter and everything else would be the same).

What does everyone think??


(For some reason the filter did not show up on the picture...it should be a rectangle that fits in the space indicated by "Circular filter" on the drawing)

MaDMaX024

i can get everything made. contruction is no problem. all i need to do is figure out how to make the valve open and close on its own. i dont want any driver involvement..
what we really need is someone with both intakes do separate runs on a dyno and figure out the optimal RPM to have the valve open. i'm going to a local welding shop tomorrow, if its cheap enough, i'll have them make it, if not, i'll wait till my exhaust is fixed.from there i'll constuct the CAI. if i knew of any dyno places around here, i'd take my car in and figure it out right then...its really too bad engine RPM isnt directly related to the gas pedal. then the switch could be placed under the gas pedal at a certain point, there wouldnt be any problem.
when i do the install, i'll take pics.
now i just need to figure out how to open and close the valve.

Neptune97

This might be easier than you think...I'm pretty sure someone on this forum has dynoed their car with a popcharger as well as with a CAI. All we have to do is overlay the dyno printouts, and figure out where the torque corve of the popcharger crosses the CAI curve. Right? Has anyone done this?

MaDMaX024

well since there are so many of us with so many different engines (VG, VE, VQ) we'd need 2 printouts of each. i'm really only interested in what the VE can do but willing to help for the benefit of everyone.
just another random thought. this valve has to be adjustable. mods affect air intake and how much is taken in at a particular RPM correct? this is why your last mod should be ECU because exhaust for example changes the amount of air and fuel the engine wants/needs for optimal performance. I for one am not done modding my car and probably never will be, therefore we need this thing adjustable. how we will adjust it is something i havent thought about yet. i was thinking a computer, but how would we get the info into it?
i might be running around in circles here, but before we can make it adjustable, we need to make it and make it work good.
another random thought.
could we tap into the tach signal wire and at a certain RPM have a solenoid pull a butterfly valve like the electronic choke on a small boat?

Neptune97

I agree that it has to be adjustable. If it is, then we actually don't even need to worry about which type of engine you have, or how many mods you have...just get on a dyno, and adjust it until you get the best looking torque curve.

I am a mechanical engineer, so of course I would try and build this thing to move the cylinder using a mechanical signal. But an electrical solution, although it may be more expensive, and more difficult to implement, will probably be lighter and won't break as much.

I'll try and think of some ways to move this cylinder.

MaDMaX024

the only reason i dont want this mechanical is i dont want to pull the valve open, i want it to open on its own, this is going to be a difficult to work the adjustability in.

MarcJD

Any luck/progress with this?

MaDMaX024

havent tried anything, the ypipe was more than $5 so i have to wait till a week from wednesday, after i get my exhaust fixed.

Jon91SE

Heres a nice picture of a dual intake on my friends old impalla SS, just thought i would share......

http://absolutracing.tripod.com/ImpallaIntake.jpg

Neptune97

I couldn't access the pic...can you download it yourself and post it? or maybe host it on a different server?

Jon91SE

lemme try and attach.......