Llumar VS. Formula 1 tints
03-12-2008, 10:34 PM
#41
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Texas
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heres a pic of two different maximas, (mine is the black 4gen) each has the same ATR CH 30% film on the sides, and 5% on the back glass. it's the same film, but the different degrees of green hue in the glass differ from generation to generation. same film, different look.
Last edited by shaglass; 03-12-2008 at 10:37 PM.
03-13-2008, 12:13 AM
#42
you have NO warranty. CPFilms (or any manufacturer) does not warranty illegally installed films. period. no matter what the shop tells you.
and as i've told my customers for the last 22 years, "if the shop is dishonest enough to break the law for a couple hundred bucks, exactly how honest do you think they'll be when it comes to fixing your film when something goes bad?"
like i said, lifetime warranty? on illegally installed film?
and as i've told my customers for the last 22 years, "if the shop is dishonest enough to break the law for a couple hundred bucks, exactly how honest do you think they'll be when it comes to fixing your film when something goes bad?"
like i said, lifetime warranty? on illegally installed film?
03-13-2008, 12:52 PM
#43
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i'm not going to argue with you, because i know i'm right. it doesn't matter if you have a warranty card, CPFilms won't honor it. if you don't believe me, just call CPFilms (1-800-2LLUMAR) and see what they have to say.
03-13-2008, 03:19 PM
#44
i always thought that the warranty was for the tint shop you get them installed from and not the actual brand of the tint. because i have lifetime warranty for my tint and the tint shop i go to always tells me to save the receipt and if i ever any problems with the tint they'll replace it for free.
03-13-2008, 05:35 PM
#46
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F1 is not special. all films come with a nation wide manufacturers warranty--as long as the shop gives you the film manufacturers warranty card, a reciept, and the install was done legally--and you can have warranty work done anywhere in america by an authorized dealer.
some shops don't give the card, which results in you being required to take it back to the same shop for any warranty work since that shop now carries the warranty. of course this is assuming they're still in business, which chances are they won't be. (average life span of a tinting facility in the US is about 6 months)
some shops don't give the manufacturers warranty for different reasons. ie, the install is not legal, they're installing a film other than the film you think you're getting (this happens WAY more than you might think).
some shops don't issue the card because they're not going to mess with being reimbursed if there's a problem. this is fine, as long as you always take it to that shop, and that shop hangs around for the next 5-8 years.
don't ever let a "lifetime" warranty be a deciding factor for choosing a film. even the best films fail after 8-10 years. even less time in hotter climates like texas, arizona, and southern cal. and nearly all films come with a lifetime warranty these days except for the cheapo dyed stuff. which is what 90% of all shops sell.
some shops don't give the card, which results in you being required to take it back to the same shop for any warranty work since that shop now carries the warranty. of course this is assuming they're still in business, which chances are they won't be. (average life span of a tinting facility in the US is about 6 months)
some shops don't give the manufacturers warranty for different reasons. ie, the install is not legal, they're installing a film other than the film you think you're getting (this happens WAY more than you might think).
some shops don't issue the card because they're not going to mess with being reimbursed if there's a problem. this is fine, as long as you always take it to that shop, and that shop hangs around for the next 5-8 years.
don't ever let a "lifetime" warranty be a deciding factor for choosing a film. even the best films fail after 8-10 years. even less time in hotter climates like texas, arizona, and southern cal. and nearly all films come with a lifetime warranty these days except for the cheapo dyed stuff. which is what 90% of all shops sell.
Last edited by shaglass; 03-13-2008 at 05:37 PM.
03-13-2008, 10:43 PM
#49
I have 20% all around (except windshield), its 3M Tint with a lifetime warranty, paid $225, Had the same on my 99 Altima, never scratched or bubbled. My maxima's pass side front window is scratched REAL bad right now, but thats from the window falling in the door after freezing and coming off the track :/
03-13-2008, 11:02 PM
#50
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Location: Texas
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so that means it's a shop warranty. which is basically worth nothing. like i stated earlier--"if the shop is dishonest enough to break the law for a couple hundred bucks, exactly how honest do you think they'll be when it comes to fixing your film when something goes bad?"
03-13-2008, 11:27 PM
#51
you don't have a manufacturers lifetime warranty. since 20% on the doors is not legal in any state, 3M will not honor the warranty.
so that means it's a shop warranty. which is basically worth nothing. like i stated earlier--"if the shop is dishonest enough to break the law for a couple hundred bucks, exactly how honest do you think they'll be when it comes to fixing your film when something goes bad?"
so that means it's a shop warranty. which is basically worth nothing. like i stated earlier--"if the shop is dishonest enough to break the law for a couple hundred bucks, exactly how honest do you think they'll be when it comes to fixing your film when something goes bad?"
i don't know about the tint shops in your area but the tint shops that i go to all honor their warranty. when i had my 70% vkool tint done all around my car including windshield, the back two doors sort of don't match. like the color is lighter compare to the rest of the car. i lived with it for a month or so but i couldn't stand it anymore lol i went back to the shop to get it retinted and i thought i had to pay because those tint were super expensive (suppose to be $180 for the two doors) but they just retinted it for free. also i had my old car tinted at a different shop and it started to peel from the rubber seal rubbing it i think. well they replaced it for free too. i have yet to find a dishonest shop around here =/
03-14-2008, 12:23 AM
#52
I've already got the number for the GA distributor and will be calling them tomorrow (or today, rather).
03-14-2008, 08:53 AM
#53
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i don't know about the tint shops in your area but the tint shops that i go to all honor their warranty. when i had my 70% vkool tint done all around my car including windshield, the back two doors sort of don't match. like the color is lighter compare to the rest of the car. i lived with it for a month or so but i couldn't stand it anymore lol i went back to the shop to get it retinted and i thought i had to pay because those tint were super expensive (suppose to be $180 for the two doors) but they just retinted it for free. also i had my old car tinted at a different shop and it started to peel from the rubber seal rubbing it i think. well they replaced it for free too. i have yet to find a dishonest shop around here =/
if you had your fronts retinted for free, because you didn't like the VLT%, then that would be the first i've heard of that in 22 years. i don't know any shop that will replace something for free because the customer changed their mind.
yeah, i'm aware that 20% on the rear doors is legal in some states, not in your state though. and 20% on the front doors isn't legal anywhere. and any glass that's done illegal voids the entire warranty. you don't need to call the distributor, you need to call the manufacturer. the distributor has no say over warranty issues.
03-14-2008, 09:30 AM
#55
Llumar and Formula 1 are made by the same company. http://www.cpfilms.com/windowfilms.html
And if I recall correctly, Formula 1 dealers are chosen better than Llumar dealers because the Formula1 tint is higher quality.
Either one is a great tint...
And if I recall correctly, Formula 1 dealers are chosen better than Llumar dealers because the Formula1 tint is higher quality.
Either one is a great tint...
03-14-2008, 09:59 AM
#56
my tint shop gave me the warranty card and everything with the 15% tint..but on the invoice they put 35% so in case I want to get a warranty on it...it could still be valid. Either way, a tint warranty is no big deal because down here its so cheap to tint a car.
03-14-2008, 12:40 PM
#57
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Llumar and Formula 1 are made by the same company. http://www.cpfilms.com/windowfilms.html
And if I recall correctly, Formula 1 dealers are chosen better than Llumar dealers because the Formula1 tint is higher quality.
Either one is a great tint...
And if I recall correctly, Formula 1 dealers are chosen better than Llumar dealers because the Formula1 tint is higher quality.
Either one is a great tint...
F1 dealers aren't "chosen". CPFilms requires an initial investment, which most hacks don't have that kind of cash flow. anyone and their dog can be an F1 dealer, as long as you've got the cash.
and the only F1 film that's a much higher quality than any other Llumar film is Pinnacle. Llumar ATR CH, Platinum Plus, and ATX are all higher quality than any of the other F1 films. (but no F1 dealer would admit that. when was the last time anyone, anywhere, admitted their product was lesser than another?)
this is not my opinion, this is fact. (another fact--one of the F1 films is actually a Llumar film in a prettier box. i could tell you which one, but then i'd have to kill you) but i know all the ins and outs, and i know people on the inside. and my vision isn't blurred by marketing like everyone else.
marketing--selling a lesser product to ignorant people for over 40 years.
03-14-2008, 12:47 PM
#58
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Location: Texas
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the film that's removed has to be sent to Llumar. do you really think the people that make the stuff won't know what they're looking at?
03-14-2008, 01:25 PM
#59
i already stated CPFilms makes both films. but thanks for backin me up.
F1 dealers aren't "chosen". CPFilms requires an initial investment, which most hacks don't have that kind of cash flow. anyone and their dog can be an F1 dealer, as long as you've got the cash.
and the only F1 film that's a much higher quality than any other Llumar film is Pinnacle. Llumar ATR CH, Platinum Plus, and ATX are all higher quality than any of the other F1 films. (but no F1 dealer would admit that. when was the last time anyone, anywhere, admitted their product was lesser than another?)
this is not my opinion, this is fact. (another fact--one of the F1 films is actually a Llumar film in a prettier box. i could tell you which one, but then i'd have to kill you) but i know all the ins and outs, and i know people on the inside. and my vision isn't blurred by marketing like everyone else.
marketing--selling a lesser product to ignorant people for over 40 years.
F1 dealers aren't "chosen". CPFilms requires an initial investment, which most hacks don't have that kind of cash flow. anyone and their dog can be an F1 dealer, as long as you've got the cash.
and the only F1 film that's a much higher quality than any other Llumar film is Pinnacle. Llumar ATR CH, Platinum Plus, and ATX are all higher quality than any of the other F1 films. (but no F1 dealer would admit that. when was the last time anyone, anywhere, admitted their product was lesser than another?)
this is not my opinion, this is fact. (another fact--one of the F1 films is actually a Llumar film in a prettier box. i could tell you which one, but then i'd have to kill you) but i know all the ins and outs, and i know people on the inside. and my vision isn't blurred by marketing like everyone else.
marketing--selling a lesser product to ignorant people for over 40 years.
Yeah I was looking to see if anyone posted it but I didn't see it. I figured they would pretty much be the same film, it would make sense for CPF to make so many different films of different quality.
03-14-2008, 01:55 PM
#60
they do...but the shop will warranty it..then the shop is liable to the manufacturer in regards to the tint. To be honest, there is no sense in crying over a warranty over tint..tinting is $120 thats a small amount to pay. We can argue all day about the legality of a BS tint warranty.
Last edited by slickrick; 03-14-2008 at 01:59 PM.
03-14-2008, 02:18 PM
#61
i already stated CPFilms makes both films. but thanks for backin me up.
F1 dealers aren't "chosen". CPFilms requires an initial investment, which most hacks don't have that kind of cash flow. anyone and their dog can be an F1 dealer, as long as you've got the cash.
and the only F1 film that's a much higher quality than any other Llumar film is Pinnacle. Llumar ATR CH, Platinum Plus, and ATX are all higher quality than any of the other F1 films. (but no F1 dealer would admit that. when was the last time anyone, anywhere, admitted their product was lesser than another?)
this is not my opinion, this is fact. (another fact--one of the F1 films is actually a Llumar film in a prettier box. i could tell you which one, but then i'd have to kill you) but i know all the ins and outs, and i know people on the inside. and my vision isn't blurred by marketing like everyone else.
marketing--selling a lesser product to ignorant people for over 40 years.
F1 dealers aren't "chosen". CPFilms requires an initial investment, which most hacks don't have that kind of cash flow. anyone and their dog can be an F1 dealer, as long as you've got the cash.
and the only F1 film that's a much higher quality than any other Llumar film is Pinnacle. Llumar ATR CH, Platinum Plus, and ATX are all higher quality than any of the other F1 films. (but no F1 dealer would admit that. when was the last time anyone, anywhere, admitted their product was lesser than another?)
this is not my opinion, this is fact. (another fact--one of the F1 films is actually a Llumar film in a prettier box. i could tell you which one, but then i'd have to kill you) but i know all the ins and outs, and i know people on the inside. and my vision isn't blurred by marketing like everyone else.
marketing--selling a lesser product to ignorant people for over 40 years.
03-14-2008, 04:01 PM
#62
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Texas
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I figured they would pretty much be the same film, it would make sense for CPF to make so many different films of different quality.
noooo, what gave it away?
they do...but the shop will warranty it..then the shop is liable to the manufacturer in regards to the tint. To be honest, there is no sense in crying over a warranty over tint..tinting is $120 thats a small amount to pay. We can argue all day about the legality of a BS tint warranty.
$120 for a 4 door car......
....that's because in florida, the tint market is completely whored out. which explains why there's not any good tinters in florida, and why so many cars have bad tint jobs there. you couldn't even get just your backglass tinted for $120 at my shop.
so in your case, yeah, no sense worrying over a warranty on a conventional dyed film.
but when you step up to the big leagues, and pay $375-$750 for Huper, Axxess, V-Kool, MAC, UP, etc., a warranty is a nice thing to have.
Last edited by shaglass; 03-14-2008 at 04:03 PM.
03-14-2008, 05:42 PM
#63
yeah, i'm aware that 20% on the rear doors is legal in some states, not in your state though. and 20% on the front doors isn't legal anywhere. and any glass that's done illegal voids the entire warranty. you don't need to call the distributor, you need to call the manufacturer. the distributor has no say over warranty issues.
Interesting info, though, as I had no idea! But I'm not worried about it. The shop that did my windows is known to have a good reputation.Interesting what you say about calling the mfg, as I actually e-mailed Llumar from the info on their site and they pointed me to the distributor for my state. Then again, they'll probably either contact CPF for me or give me their info.
03-15-2008, 04:11 AM
#64
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Location: Texas
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a good reputation? for what? breaking the law?
it depends on what type information you were seeking. if you contacted Llumar directly, regarding information about a shop in your area then yeah, they would direct you to the distributor for that area. Llumar doesn't deal directly with each individual shop, that's what the distibutors are set up to do. except in the far northeast, Llumar takes care of the shops directly in that area.
but even if you contact them directly over information about a certain film, they'll sometimes direct you to a distributor, to set you up with a shop in your area. since it's the individual shops responsibility to sell you on a certain film. the problem with that is most shops only carry one film, and that's the film they try to sell you. if you know for a fact you're wanting Llumar AT CH, and this shop only carries Llumar ATR CH, then you won't hear good things about AT, and vice versa.
which is why i've always stressed just finding a good shop that's been in business for a long time, and go with what they recommend. a good shop usually won't mess with the junk films. (not always the case, but usually they won't) a shop that's been around for 8-20 years has been around long enough to know what films work in that area. just because a film lasts 5-6 years in illinois doesn't mean anything, because it may only last 2 years in texas and arizona.
my best friend owns a shop in oregon, and he installs 3M CS all day long, and NEVER has a return for warranty issues. if i did that in texas, i'd be replacing film on every car after only 2-3 years.
this is why message boards suck when it comes to film. just because this guy in new york has this certain film and brags about how great it is on his car, if you live in southern california and have it installed, it may turn to crap in one summer.
it depends on what type information you were seeking. if you contacted Llumar directly, regarding information about a shop in your area then yeah, they would direct you to the distributor for that area. Llumar doesn't deal directly with each individual shop, that's what the distibutors are set up to do. except in the far northeast, Llumar takes care of the shops directly in that area.
but even if you contact them directly over information about a certain film, they'll sometimes direct you to a distributor, to set you up with a shop in your area. since it's the individual shops responsibility to sell you on a certain film. the problem with that is most shops only carry one film, and that's the film they try to sell you. if you know for a fact you're wanting Llumar AT CH, and this shop only carries Llumar ATR CH, then you won't hear good things about AT, and vice versa.
which is why i've always stressed just finding a good shop that's been in business for a long time, and go with what they recommend. a good shop usually won't mess with the junk films. (not always the case, but usually they won't) a shop that's been around for 8-20 years has been around long enough to know what films work in that area. just because a film lasts 5-6 years in illinois doesn't mean anything, because it may only last 2 years in texas and arizona.
my best friend owns a shop in oregon, and he installs 3M CS all day long, and NEVER has a return for warranty issues. if i did that in texas, i'd be replacing film on every car after only 2-3 years.
this is why message boards suck when it comes to film. just because this guy in new york has this certain film and brags about how great it is on his car, if you live in southern california and have it installed, it may turn to crap in one summer.
03-15-2008, 08:27 AM
#65
they do make several films of varied quality. (about 12) Llumar Jet is pure junk. and they get progressively better as they go up (along with the price). as far as i know, there's only one film that they make for Llumar that is reboxed for F1. everything else is a completely different film, just one better than the next.
noooo, what gave it away?
well then, that would make it a shop warranty wouldn't it?
$120 for a 4 door car..........that's because in florida, the tint market is completely whored out. which explains why there's not any good tinters in florida, and why so many cars have bad tint jobs there.
you couldn't even get just your backglass tinted for $120 at my shop.
so in your case, yeah, no sense worrying over a warranty on a conventional dyed film.
but when you step up to the big leagues, and pay $375-$750 for Huper, Axxess, V-Kool, MAC, UP, etc., a warranty is a nice thing to have.
noooo, what gave it away?
well then, that would make it a shop warranty wouldn't it?
$120 for a 4 door car......
....that's because in florida, the tint market is completely whored out. which explains why there's not any good tinters in florida, and why so many cars have bad tint jobs there. you couldn't even get just your backglass tinted for $120 at my shop.
so in your case, yeah, no sense worrying over a warranty on a conventional dyed film.
but when you step up to the big leagues, and pay $375-$750 for Huper, Axxess, V-Kool, MAC, UP, etc., a warranty is a nice thing to have.
03-15-2008, 01:08 PM
#66
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Location: Texas
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so it's a bad deal. i would have gone to one of the shops in the $400 range.
what most people don't consider when they have their car tinted is the fact that you're paying for 2 things. 1--the film. 2--having it installed.
places that charge less do so for a reason. they don't do it because they enjoy working for less money. they do it because they suck as an installer. guys who are good are gonna demand more money. (same as any profession)
one way to know if you got a good or bad install, take a look at the roll ups. is there no gap at all? or do you have a gap 1/16"-1?4"? no gaps take longer, and require a higher skill level to achieve.
another is look at your back glass. is is seamed with the defroster? or is it one solid sheet? one solid sheet takes a higher level of experience to do right.
were the quarters removed? (which is the best way) or can you see a line around the edge from the outside? or did they cut your gasket? (all you have to do is look at the inside and you can see where they trimmed an edge around it)
were the door panels removed? or is the bottom of the film right at the top edge of the gasket?
there's alot of other things to look for, but these are the easiest for you to look at without me standing there showing everything that's wrong with it.
not to mention, i'd question if it's even pinnacle at $240. i charge that for ATR CH, and that's in Texas. (Texas prices on film are a little lower than other states). pinnacle is not a cheap film. at $240, they're not making enough money to make it worth doing the job.
03-15-2008, 01:24 PM
#67
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Location: Texas
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nevermind, i forgot you were in florida. florida doesn't count when it comes to window film. they're as much as 50% cheaper than all the other states, and about 100% worse on their installs.
and you have to speak a different language if you want to talk to the installer.
and you have to speak a different language if you want to talk to the installer.
03-15-2008, 02:21 PM
#68
nevermind, i forgot you were in florida. florida doesn't count when it comes to window film. they're as much as 50% cheaper than all the other states, and about 100% worse on their installs.
and you have to speak a different language if you want to talk to the installer.
and you have to speak a different language if you want to talk to the installer.
It took the hispanic woman about 3.5 hours including taking off my old llumar 20%...I sat there and watched because I trust nobody down here. Edit: They opened up a new roll of the Pinnacle film while I was there watching in the back...so I'm assuming/hoping it was. I paid them $290ish after tax because they had to take old Llumar tint off. The rear glass is one solid sheet, but no door panels were removed. The c pillars were removed though. Most crappy shops down here offer "free tint with car audio installation", or "$69.99 tint any cars". This place is in a low income area and I think their overhead was low too.
Last edited by slickrick; 03-15-2008 at 04:54 PM.
03-15-2008, 05:21 PM
#69
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Location: San Antonio
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LLumar would not go darker than 35% on mine. He said it looks darker than normal. I decided not to go with it and go with someone I knew who has been tinting for 20 years. He went as dark as I wanted. Not bad for $120.
03-15-2008, 06:16 PM
#70
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Location: Texas
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Last edited by shaglass; 03-15-2008 at 06:32 PM.
03-15-2008, 06:26 PM
#71
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sounds like a stand up guy. as long as your happy with what $120 gets you, then i guess it's ok. i'm sure it won't turn purple like the film on your other car.
03-15-2008, 06:51 PM
#72
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Exactly...you cant expect good things to come out of FL. I did some decent research on the place and I realized its the best of the worst...why pay more for the same crappy install? Most tint shops leave a good 1/2" gap between the window..but mine is very small...I have never seen a car down here with film covering the entire window. It took the hispanic woman about 3.5 hours including taking off my old llumar 20%...I sat there and watched because I trust nobody down here.
It took the hispanic woman about 3.5 hours including taking off my old llumar 20%...I sat there and watched because I trust nobody down here. there's only one tinter i know who is still there that's worth a damn, and he's in jacksonville. he charges quite a bit (compared to everyone else in florida) but he makes. how, i have no idea. i think his wife has a pretty good paying job.
the reason i said something about the film not being pinnacle, it's a well known fact that ALOT of shops in florida advertise one thing, and install another. good to know you got what you asked for.
03-15-2008, 06:52 PM
#73
Looks like mine! LoL that's the only reason why I shelled out more $ for better work. Never liked the tint line when I saw other cars with their windows rolled down.
03-15-2008, 07:02 PM
#74
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That was not put on by me, it is factory lexus tint, it isn't actually purple, more of a bluish.
03-15-2008, 09:52 PM
#75
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if i had a nickel for every time i've heard that in 22 years.
there is no such thing as "factory lexus tint". (car manufacturers don't tint windows)
it's tint, done by a tint shop, just like everyone else's, and it's purple.
if you want to see how purple it really is, just take it and have one window redone.
03-15-2008, 10:15 PM
#76
if i had a nickel for every time i've heard that in 22 years.
there is no such thing as "factory lexus tint". (car manufacturers don't tint windows)
it's tint, done by a tint shop, just like everyone else's, and it's purple.
if you want to see how purple it really is, just take it and have one window redone.
LOL my friend's accord had to retint his driver side window from the same tint shop/same tint and it looked darker than the rest...it was bugging him he just retinted the whole car lol also he had like a sticker or something on his back windshield near the rear brake light and when he removed it there was a shadow. i guess that's what happen with cheap tint.
also tint shop probably say it's lexus tint to make it sound more high quality...it's a gimmick lol
03-16-2008, 09:34 AM
#78
that really is sad. especially for the customers. i personally know 6 guys who have left florida in the last 10 years because of the tinting situation down there. one of them quit all together. and we're not talking about guys who just started. all these guys had been tinting from 10 to 23 years. the prices just got so bad, and they couldn't compete with guys installing the junk films from korea. (which is why you see so many cars with purple crappy film)
there's only one tinter i know who is still there that's worth a damn, and he's in jacksonville. he charges quite a bit (compared to everyone else in florida) but he makes. how, i have no idea. i think his wife has a pretty good paying job.
the reason i said something about the film not being pinnacle, it's a well known fact that ALOT of shops in florida advertise one thing, and install another. good to know you got what you asked for.
there's only one tinter i know who is still there that's worth a damn, and he's in jacksonville. he charges quite a bit (compared to everyone else in florida) but he makes. how, i have no idea. i think his wife has a pretty good paying job.
the reason i said something about the film not being pinnacle, it's a well known fact that ALOT of shops in florida advertise one thing, and install another. good to know you got what you asked for.
03-16-2008, 09:35 AM
#79
03-16-2008, 10:35 AM
#80
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but i happen to know a little about the guy in boca, and i've seen his work.
but that's pretty typical of guys who mainly do illegal installs. they don't have to back any of their work because the customer has no legal recourse because it's an illegal install. just another way they take advantage of customers.