Test Drove a 2K2 Maxima 6sp and 2K2 Altima 5sp:Shocking Discovery!!
11-06-2001, 09:04 AM
#42
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My 2k5spd FEELS alot faster than my buddy's GS400. When I drove the GS400 - it FELT much slower. Reality is, it is much faster. Sorry to say this, but don't think you can compare two cars that are going to be that close with the butt dyno. Gotta line em up or run em or time em to know the truth.
11-06-2001, 01:04 PM
#43
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Originally posted by Max_Gator
My 2k5spd FEELS alot faster than my buddy's GS400. When I drove the GS400 - it FELT much slower. Reality is, it is much faster. Sorry to say this, but don't think you can compare two cars that are going to be that close with the butt dyno. Gotta line em up or run em or time em to know the truth.
My 2k5spd FEELS alot faster than my buddy's GS400. When I drove the GS400 - it FELT much slower. Reality is, it is much faster. Sorry to say this, but don't think you can compare two cars that are going to be that close with the butt dyno. Gotta line em up or run em or time em to know the truth.
PS I had a 5spd Altima up to 125mph on my test drive and that was in 4th gear with two other people in the car and room to go. Ran out of road to finish 4th let alone 5th. I truly believe a 5spd altima would give a gs400 a good run!
11-06-2001, 01:24 PM
#44
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Re: Re: Re: Test Drove a 2K2 Maxima 6sp and 2K2 Altima 5sp:Shocking Discovery!!
Right! You are in that category. I've test driven both and they both feel fast. Feel being the operative word. The track will tell all. Personally I don't see how a Maxima would be slower. They are the same weight. The Maxima has more rated HP. The Maxima has better gearing. It doesn't add up. Let's let more data roll in before we award a winner on either side.
Originally posted by BottleFedMax
Thank you! Those who argue that the Altima is slower than the Maxima has either A) never test drove the 2 cars or B) Just can't accept the fact that a Altima (lower line car ) is faster than the Maxima ( Nissan Flagship)
Thank you! Those who argue that the Altima is slower than the Maxima has either A) never test drove the 2 cars or B) Just can't accept the fact that a Altima (lower line car ) is faster than the Maxima ( Nissan Flagship)
11-06-2001, 02:42 PM
#45
Re: Re: Re: Re: Test Drove a 2K2 Maxima 6sp and 2K2 Altima 5sp:Shocking Discovery!!
Originally posted by Paul6speed
Right! You are in that category. I've test driven both and they both feel fast. Feel being the operative word. The track will tell all. Personally I don't see how a Maxima would be slower. They are the same weight. The Maxima has more rated HP. The Maxima has better gearing. It doesn't add up. Let's let more data roll in before we award a winner on either side.
Right! You are in that category. I've test driven both and they both feel fast. Feel being the operative word. The track will tell all. Personally I don't see how a Maxima would be slower. They are the same weight. The Maxima has more rated HP. The Maxima has better gearing. It doesn't add up. Let's let more data roll in before we award a winner on either side.
11-06-2001, 03:03 PM
#47
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 812
F%CK IT
I really don't care, the Max is nicer from a - z, if the Alti is a litlle faster, well be it, I will just have to throw a little cash into my classier Max. I am not trying to break any *****, of course the info is always appreciated. Shame on Nissan if the engines are the same, the Alti better have 260, cause if the Max turns out to only have 240 a lot of people will be ****ed, can you say Ford Cobra output scandal.
11-06-2001, 03:14 PM
#48
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Originally posted by PhatGuy
I agree 100% with you! Everyone is huffin' and puffin' about two cars they don't even own, never been dynoed, never been run head to head against one another!
PS I had a 5spd Altima up to 125mph on my test drive and that was in 4th gear with two other people in the car and room to go. Ran out of road to finish 4th let alone 5th. I truly believe a 5spd altima would give a gs400 a good run!
I agree 100% with you! Everyone is huffin' and puffin' about two cars they don't even own, never been dynoed, never been run head to head against one another!
PS I had a 5spd Altima up to 125mph on my test drive and that was in 4th gear with two other people in the car and room to go. Ran out of road to finish 4th let alone 5th. I truly believe a 5spd altima would give a gs400 a good run!
11-06-2001, 03:58 PM
#49
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time to censor you!
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....threadid=60533
Maxima 6-spd best car at any price! ahahaha jk
Maxima 6-spd best car at any price! ahahaha jk
11-06-2001, 04:11 PM
#50
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 44
A rear beam suspension is actually better for accleration and drag strip.
why do you think people KILL for older rear beam vettes and
the bullitt mustang is a rear beam.
Lets just see track numbers. Personally, I think the Altima is faster.
- Alty automatic: 0-60 in 7.3 and 15.4 quarter
- I35 Automatic (of course): 0-60 in 6.8 and high 14 quarter (don;t remember exact number)
Since we all know the I30 is probably the slowest of the Maxima family due to extra weight of luxury items and no manual trans, the fact that the Alty auto gets beaten by the I35 leads me to believe the Max will be faster in than the Alty when both are using the same trans.
11-06-2001, 04:46 PM
#51
Originally posted by Terminator X
the fact that the Alty auto gets beaten by the I35 leads me to believe the Max will be faster in than the Alty when both are using the same trans.
the fact that the Alty auto gets beaten by the I35 leads me to believe the Max will be faster in than the Alty when both are using the same trans.
11-06-2001, 04:50 PM
#52
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Test Drove a 2K2 Maxima 6sp and 2K2 Altima 5sp:Shocking Discovery!!
Originally posted by dmbmaxima88
ya we need to find two good drivers and one of each car and line them up. butt dynos are way innacurate.
ya we need to find two good drivers and one of each car and line them up. butt dynos are way innacurate.
11-06-2001, 04:54 PM
#53
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Test Drove a 2K2 Maxima 6sp and 2K2 Altima 5sp:Shocking Discovery!!
Originally posted by costcowholesale
lend theblue yr car and see what kinda time he can pull on the track
lend theblue yr car and see what kinda time he can pull on the track
Dave
11-06-2001, 05:06 PM
#54
Originally posted by red112fl
Was it an apples to apples comparison? In other words, were you either alone (or with a salesman) when you drove BOTH cars? If you drove the Altima by yourself and the Maxima with a "180lb plus" salesman by your side, you've got two different weights. Did both cars have premium unleaded? The dealership that had the Maxima may have "under-fueled" it with 87 octane. Perhaps this explains the difference.
I've driven the 4 cylinder, 5 spd Altima and it is quick, but I can't believe the Max 6 spd necessarily feels like a slug. In all fairness to the engineering lads at Nissan, the Altima represents the latest in Nissan engineering and available technolgy; whereas, the Maxima is just another production run of the 3 year old 5th generation. The question is what will the 6th generation SE be like? 260-280 bhp?
It wouldn't suprise me to see a lot of Nissan enthusiasts/Maxima drivers move into the Altima, especially once the after-market boys get their opportunity to tweak the car. A lowered, 4 cylinder 5 speed Altima "S" with air intake, FSTB, RSB, riding on 17" rims and performance tires is gonna be a really hot NEW car for $20-21k.
Was it an apples to apples comparison? In other words, were you either alone (or with a salesman) when you drove BOTH cars? If you drove the Altima by yourself and the Maxima with a "180lb plus" salesman by your side, you've got two different weights. Did both cars have premium unleaded? The dealership that had the Maxima may have "under-fueled" it with 87 octane. Perhaps this explains the difference.
I've driven the 4 cylinder, 5 spd Altima and it is quick, but I can't believe the Max 6 spd necessarily feels like a slug. In all fairness to the engineering lads at Nissan, the Altima represents the latest in Nissan engineering and available technolgy; whereas, the Maxima is just another production run of the 3 year old 5th generation. The question is what will the 6th generation SE be like? 260-280 bhp?
It wouldn't suprise me to see a lot of Nissan enthusiasts/Maxima drivers move into the Altima, especially once the after-market boys get their opportunity to tweak the car. A lowered, 4 cylinder 5 speed Altima "S" with air intake, FSTB, RSB, riding on 17" rims and performance tires is gonna be a really hot NEW car for $20-21k.
I heard that the next gen maximas gonna be a 8 cylinder beast that will look like the Infiniti
11-06-2001, 05:26 PM
#55
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Originally posted by AznWontonboy
Thats what i was going to say.. a more refined car tends to seem slower.. drive a GS400 and a 540i or a E420 and you tell me how fast you think those are compared to a manual Integra.. In an Integra you'll feel like you keep pulling, but in a GS400 you dont feel the pull but if you look at the speedo, the car is pulling like none other.. just my 2 cents
Thats what i was going to say.. a more refined car tends to seem slower.. drive a GS400 and a 540i or a E420 and you tell me how fast you think those are compared to a manual Integra.. In an Integra you'll feel like you keep pulling, but in a GS400 you dont feel the pull but if you look at the speedo, the car is pulling like none other.. just my 2 cents
is built more solid and quiet and you dont feel everything...so its possible it could feel faster when its actually not
The other thing is maybe the throttle cable was loose on the max ....
Maybe you and a friend should test drive em both race and seee who wins ?? hehe
11-06-2001, 06:55 PM
#58
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Originally posted by AdMax98
Im glad Im not the guy that ends up buying your test driven car. Way to break the engine in...
Im glad Im not the guy that ends up buying your test driven car. Way to break the engine in...
11-06-2001, 07:02 PM
#59
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Originally posted by BottleFedMax
Well how'd do you test drive performance oriented cars? Obviously not drive it and say WOW this Altima shifts so smooth and rides so quiet right? But hey I'm sure I'm not the only one that test drive cars like that so you better becareful next time you buy a car
Well how'd do you test drive performance oriented cars? Obviously not drive it and say WOW this Altima shifts so smooth and rides so quiet right? But hey I'm sure I'm not the only one that test drive cars like that so you better becareful next time you buy a car
11-06-2001, 07:10 PM
#60
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My $0.02
First off, I have no intention to add any fuel to this fire, but I have to say the '02 Altima 3.5SE w/5-spd is one fast car. I test drove one last week and was really impressed. I could not believe the handling improvement with the IRS. I haven't test driven any '02 Maxima so I'm not even going to compare the two but for the price and availabilty, the Altima wins. Nissan has reduced total Maxima production by 2/3 over the '01 model year. This means a small number of 6-speeds will be built. This will not only make it difficult to find but the dealers will/are not giving substantial discounts. I don't know about you guys, but I really feel it is not worth it to pay sticker or over sticker for a car like the Maxima that has a history for high depreciation. After all the dust settles from the Altima's launch, prices should fall considerably. At this point I'm considering buying an '02 Altima or an '00/'01 used Maxima.
As far as the horsepower mystery, if you notice the Maxima has a variable capacity muffler and the V-6 Altima does not. I feel this is where Nissan has created a 15 hp deficit for the Altima. The engines appear the same physically. I'm wondering if we fitted a variable capacity muffler onto an Atlima and dynoed the two, they would have the same output?
As far as the horsepower mystery, if you notice the Maxima has a variable capacity muffler and the V-6 Altima does not. I feel this is where Nissan has created a 15 hp deficit for the Altima. The engines appear the same physically. I'm wondering if we fitted a variable capacity muffler onto an Atlima and dynoed the two, they would have the same output?
11-06-2001, 07:22 PM
#61
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Join Date: Aug 2000
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Re: My $0.02
I got mine for invoice, which is 3000 under sticker. Most Nissan dealers are giving discounts on it. Similarly equipped, they are very close in price. If you want a stripped down car, the Altima is a better choice.
I'm not sure Nissan would claime the 15 comes from the variable capacity muffler. Previous claims from the front resonator and B pipe were 5 HP.
My point isn't that the Altima is slower or that the Maxima is faster. I just think it's ridiculous that 2 people are claiming the Altima is faster based upon a short test drive. Butt dyno = worse than Gtech. LOL. Also add in the fact that the Maxima has the higher HP rating (tweaked ECU?) and the same weight. How can the Altima be so much faster as some have claimed? I think both cars are so close in specs that it comes down to the driver.
I'm not sure Nissan would claime the 15 comes from the variable capacity muffler. Previous claims from the front resonator and B pipe were 5 HP.
My point isn't that the Altima is slower or that the Maxima is faster. I just think it's ridiculous that 2 people are claiming the Altima is faster based upon a short test drive. Butt dyno = worse than Gtech. LOL. Also add in the fact that the Maxima has the higher HP rating (tweaked ECU?) and the same weight. How can the Altima be so much faster as some have claimed? I think both cars are so close in specs that it comes down to the driver.
Originally posted by Jason96GLE
First off, I have no intention to add any fuel to this fire, but I have to say the '02 Altima 3.5SE w/5-spd is one fast car. I test drove one last week and was really impressed. I could not believe the handling improvement with the IRS. I haven't test driven any '02 Maxima so I'm not even going to compare the two but for the price and availabilty, the Altima wins. Nissan has reduced total Maxima production by 2/3 over the '01 model year. This means a small number of 6-speeds will be built. This will not only make it difficult to find but the dealers will/are not giving substantial discounts. I don't know about you guys, but I really feel it is not worth it to pay sticker or over sticker for a car like the Maxima that has a history for high depreciation. After all the dust settles from the Altima's launch, prices should fall considerably. At this point I'm considering buying an '02 Altima or an '00/'01 used Maxima.
As far as the horsepower mystery, if you notice the Maxima has a variable capacity muffler and the V-6 Altima does not. I feel this is where Nissan has created a 15 hp deficit for the Altima. The engines appear the same physically. I'm wondering if we fitted a variable capacity muffler onto an Atlima and dynoed the two, they would have the same output?
First off, I have no intention to add any fuel to this fire, but I have to say the '02 Altima 3.5SE w/5-spd is one fast car. I test drove one last week and was really impressed. I could not believe the handling improvement with the IRS. I haven't test driven any '02 Maxima so I'm not even going to compare the two but for the price and availabilty, the Altima wins. Nissan has reduced total Maxima production by 2/3 over the '01 model year. This means a small number of 6-speeds will be built. This will not only make it difficult to find but the dealers will/are not giving substantial discounts. I don't know about you guys, but I really feel it is not worth it to pay sticker or over sticker for a car like the Maxima that has a history for high depreciation. After all the dust settles from the Altima's launch, prices should fall considerably. At this point I'm considering buying an '02 Altima or an '00/'01 used Maxima.
As far as the horsepower mystery, if you notice the Maxima has a variable capacity muffler and the V-6 Altima does not. I feel this is where Nissan has created a 15 hp deficit for the Altima. The engines appear the same physically. I'm wondering if we fitted a variable capacity muffler onto an Atlima and dynoed the two, they would have the same output?
11-07-2001, 06:53 AM
#63
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Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Detroit Metro Area
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Originally posted by BottleFedMax
It's cool you don't have to believe it. But if by any chance you happen to be in Dedham Ma go and see Charlie the salesman at Clay Nissan. I'm sure he'll tell you a unbiased answer. Trust me when I say this I have no reason to BS. Just test drive one and you'll see for yourself.
It's cool you don't have to believe it. But if by any chance you happen to be in Dedham Ma go and see Charlie the salesman at Clay Nissan. I'm sure he'll tell you a unbiased answer. Trust me when I say this I have no reason to BS. Just test drive one and you'll see for yourself.
Stereodude
11-07-2001, 09:06 AM
#65
The new Car and Driver has number for the new Altima and also the new Infinity (which should be the same as the maxima)
I can't remember the exact numbers but the infinity was quicker in 0-60 and 1/4mile, but these were both Autos.
I can't remember the exact numbers but the infinity was quicker in 0-60 and 1/4mile, but these were both Autos.
11-08-2001, 02:25 AM
#66
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 43
red light to red light speed, different than top speed
Originally posted by RussMaxManiac
I noticed the same exact thing when I drove the auto forms of each car. But others here argued the fact that the Maxima was faster. Well it wasn't. Sorry. The Maxima did not lay me back into the seat like the Altima did.
I noticed the same exact thing when I drove the auto forms of each car. But others here argued the fact that the Maxima was faster. Well it wasn't. Sorry. The Maxima did not lay me back into the seat like the Altima did.
I LIKE THE LOW-END SPEED, BUT LOVE THE TOP-END SPEED, IN MY '95.
11-08-2001, 06:20 AM
#67
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Join Date: Sep 2000
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Re: red light to red light speed, different than top speed
Originally posted by UndercoverMax
One must decide what "speed" he/she wants. Is it gonna be low-end speed or top-end speed? I myself like to be able to beat the guy beside me at the light, but top speed is different. There is no "slamming you into the seat" when you punch the accelerator at 120 mph or even 130 mph. Now, while I like beating the guy next to me at the light, I would rather the car have the speed on the top end. Just about any car you get into can go uo to 110 mph. Then there are those that are rev limited to 130, like the 2k max, at least the 5spd I drove a couple of years ago was. All that power and no more speed than my '95 SE 5 spd, which has no rev limiter, and has been driven to what would appear to be 145 on the speedo.
I LIKE THE LOW-END SPEED, BUT LOVE THE TOP-END SPEED, IN MY '95.
One must decide what "speed" he/she wants. Is it gonna be low-end speed or top-end speed? I myself like to be able to beat the guy beside me at the light, but top speed is different. There is no "slamming you into the seat" when you punch the accelerator at 120 mph or even 130 mph. Now, while I like beating the guy next to me at the light, I would rather the car have the speed on the top end. Just about any car you get into can go uo to 110 mph. Then there are those that are rev limited to 130, like the 2k max, at least the 5spd I drove a couple of years ago was. All that power and no more speed than my '95 SE 5 spd, which has no rev limiter, and has been driven to what would appear to be 145 on the speedo.
I LIKE THE LOW-END SPEED, BUT LOVE THE TOP-END SPEED, IN MY '95.
11-08-2001, 06:55 AM
#69
Re: Re: red light to red light speed, different than top speed
Originally posted by Max_Gator
2k SE 5spd is not limited - trust us. Maybe you drove a GXE - I think they are limited (fuel cut) because they don't have the 17" wheels.
2k SE 5spd is not limited - trust us. Maybe you drove a GXE - I think they are limited (fuel cut) because they don't have the 17" wheels.
Max_gator, I noticed your dyno plot. So you actually lost max horsepower with your UDP?
There's been alot of debate if the UDP is worth it, what do you think?
11-08-2001, 08:12 AM
#70
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Originally posted by Stereodude
He has a good reason to not believe it. According to the gearing for the altima the 2002 Altima V-6 has a top speed of 101.4MPH in 3rd. Clearly your performance claims from the butt dyno are highly suspect.
Stereodude
He has a good reason to not believe it. According to the gearing for the altima the 2002 Altima V-6 has a top speed of 101.4MPH in 3rd. Clearly your performance claims from the butt dyno are highly suspect.
Stereodude
11-08-2001, 08:39 AM
#71
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Re: Re: Re: red light to red light speed, different than top speed
Originally posted by breaux124
This is OT:
Max_gator, I noticed your dyno plot. So you actually lost max horsepower with your UDP?
There's been alot of debate if the UDP is worth it, what do you think?
This is OT:
Max_gator, I noticed your dyno plot. So you actually lost max horsepower with your UDP?
There's been alot of debate if the UDP is worth it, what do you think?
In real world testing against 2 other 2k 5spds we concluded that I did not lose anything. So, it is either dyno error or something else causing the apparent loss. I don't think it was dyno error - I tested again after the one you saw and got the same results.
That leaves other factors. The dyno was in a different warehouse with less air flow than the plots prior. Also, when I dyno'd the UDP both times it was very high humidity and pretty warm. One guess is that the conditions caused the computer to make some changes to timing/fuel at high rpms.
Another possibility is that my cone filter was very dirty - thereby cutting back on the air flow.
I need to dyno again under different conditions to tell. I decided not to take the udp off and reinstall the original because of the expense and the fact that there appeared to be no real world loss.
11-08-2001, 03:45 PM
#74
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Now with all this debate about which is faster 5sp Alty or 6sp Maxima. It really makes me start to wonder why there STILL hasn't been any performance #'s for the 255 hp 6sp Max. Could it truly be that the Max is slower than the Altima thats why they haven't posted times
11-08-2001, 03:58 PM
#75
Originally posted by BottleFedMax
Now with all this debate about which is faster 5sp Alty or 6sp Maxima. It really makes me start to wonder why there STILL hasn't been any performance #'s for the 255 hp 6sp Max. Could it truly be that the Max is slower than the Altima thats why they haven't posted times
Now with all this debate about which is faster 5sp Alty or 6sp Maxima. It really makes me start to wonder why there STILL hasn't been any performance #'s for the 255 hp 6sp Max. Could it truly be that the Max is slower than the Altima thats why they haven't posted times
and
http://www.altimas.net/forum/showthr...threadid=10652
11-08-2001, 10:40 PM
#77
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Posts: 43
Re: Re: red light to red light speed, different than top speed
Originally posted by Max_Gator
2k SE 5spd is not limited - trust us. Maybe you drove a GXE - I think they are limited (fuel cut) because they don't have the 17" wheels.
2k SE 5spd is not limited - trust us. Maybe you drove a GXE - I think they are limited (fuel cut) because they don't have the 17" wheels.
My point is this- I can tell the difference between a GXE or SE. It was an SE, and it barely went over 130. You tell me "2k SE 5spd is not limited- trust us."----Who is us? Where has us posted any sort of proof that the 5th gen. does not have a rev limiter? If it does not have a rev limiter, then what is it's top speed, and have you or anyone else on here driven their own car to the top speed or are you and/or they just quoting numbers from some other source?
I chose not to buy the 2k SE for that very reason, because the '95 I had/have is faster than the 2k se that I drove?
11-09-2001, 01:30 AM
#78
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hold on take it easy undercover max. You are right about the 2k max being limited even the se, however only the one's that came with the 16 inch rims and H-rated tires. Those were the first 5th gens that came out those were limeted to 131 mph. Again because of the tires. Now the 5th gens with the 17 inch rims can go to 150mph stock.
stop da BEEF my yout, chu bumboclot.
stop da BEEF my yout, chu bumboclot.
11-09-2001, 11:00 AM
#79
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Re: Re: Re: red light to red light speed, different than top speed
Originally posted by UndercoverMax
Please do not let that label of "newbie" fool you, although is seems it is/has. I owned an '89 maxima before I had the '95 I have now. It was a GXE with 160hp. I drove it a little past 130 multiple times. 30 more hp in the '95 and it's a little faster.
My point is this- I can tell the difference between a GXE or SE. It was an SE, and it barely went over 130.
Please do not let that label of "newbie" fool you, although is seems it is/has. I owned an '89 maxima before I had the '95 I have now. It was a GXE with 160hp. I drove it a little past 130 multiple times. 30 more hp in the '95 and it's a little faster.
My point is this- I can tell the difference between a GXE or SE. It was an SE, and it barely went over 130.
Are you saying that it couldn't go past 130 or that it was limited? Which is it? Are you saying that it didn't have enough power to get over 130?
You tell me "2k SE 5spd is not limited- trust us."----Who is us? Where has us posted any sort of proof that the 5th gen. does not have a rev limiter?
By "us" I meant the people on this forum. It is a well known fact that the 2k+ 5spd SE with 17" wheels is not limited. Try searching the forum instead of attacking me.
If it does not have a rev limiter, then what is it's top speed, and have you or anyone else on here driven their own car to the top speed or are you and/or they just quoting numbers from some other source?
Top speed is 140, at least that is what Nissan puts in its manual and what C&D says:
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caran...lass=44&page=3)
I have not pushed it to its ultimate top speed because I've always run out of room but plenty here have. Again try searching the forum. I've been in the mid-120s several times both stock and with mods and could have easily passed 130. Maybe you drove a dud.
I chose not to buy the 2k SE for that very reason, because the '95 I had/have is faster than the 2k se that I drove?
11-09-2001, 11:35 AM
#80
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
Originally posted by BottleFedMax
Well I drove it and I know what the speedometer reading was if you have a quarrel about the car not able to hit 110 redlining 3rd gear then you take it out on Nissan for speedometer inaccuracy. If you have enough BALLZ then go test drive a Altima and see for yourself End of story.
Well I drove it and I know what the speedometer reading was if you have a quarrel about the car not able to hit 110 redlining 3rd gear then you take it out on Nissan for speedometer inaccuracy. If you have enough BALLZ then go test drive a Altima and see for yourself End of story.
It is FLAT OUT IMPOSSIBLE that the Altima can do 115 in 3rd with a 5 speed. The gear ratio and redline limit the car to ~98-100mph in 3rd. If you were talking about an automatic, then I wouldn't doubt your claim. BUT since it's a 5 speed, it's impossible. Sorry.
Dave