sleepermax

iTrader: (5)

Just Dyno-ed my 2K1 auto SE this past Saturday. Got 177 TQ, 170 HP which was very disappointing considering all the mods I've got. I noticed about a month and a half ago that it seemed it didn't pull nearly as strongly at WOT - but I though it was just my imagination and basically didn't worry about it. Turns out I've got something very unusual going on - there's a very distinct oscillation on the dyno plot:

Disappointing dyno

The guy at dyno said it was very probably an ignition related problem. For all I know I may be running on five cylinders! I'm taking it to the dealer Monday morning. Anybody else had a dyno like this?

emax02

iTrader: (1)

That dyno is very jagid. A 5th gen usually has a very smooth power curve. I don't think your car is runing on 5 cylinders though, if it was you would only be making about 140 HP.

UMD_MaxSE

iTrader: (1)

that doesn't look so good. It should not be so jagged. You haven't noticed any pinging or anything have you? There is a TSB on the ignition coils on the 5th gen. If you go to the dealer, let us all know how it goes....

nc00max

My results seem to be a little higher than most, but with the same mods as yourself I dynoed 190.1fwhp and 191.2 fwtq in my 2K auto. You ought to be somewhere pretty close to that. I agree with Nauman, take it to the dealer and make sure everything is running as it should and check the TSBs. Good luck!

UMD_MaxSE

iTrader: (1)

I just remembered, those new coil packs are on back-order. Seems like a few have had problems with them. So, it may very well be the cause of it. Only problem is that if you take it in to the dealer, I don't know if they are going to do anything. If you can't hear it ping, they will write everything off as normal. Plus, I don't think anyone has gotten their hands on the TSB yet. Then, the problem is compounded by the fact that you have mods... it may just be easier to order the coil packs yourself from Dave Burnette and install them. They aren't cheap though... like $60 a piece

ejj

iTrader: (5)

Was this on a dynojet or something else, like a clayton dyno.

If IIRC, Cheston and Nabil dynoed on a clayton while working on the UPRD ECU and had a similar looking graph, and odd numbers.

RussMaxManiac

No, that is called dyno operator did not hook up the equipment right. OR the equipment wasn't reading it correctly. I had that happen to me and it showed I only dynoed 170s too for a 5spd when I dynoed 184 stock. I never went there again since the idiots said it was my car when I am running better times and I know its not my car.

sleepermax

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for the feedback guys. I just got back from the dealer. They are going to check it out and let me know what's up either later today or early tomorrow. I took the OSCAI off so the only noticeable mod is the exhaust note (hope they don't notice I swapped out the front manifold with a Fed spec!). I also gave the the TSB number for the bad coils......

UMD_MaxSE

iTrader: (1)

and if they don't do anything, the coil packs are not that expensive... $40 a piece from Dave Burnette. He said he was still getting them in slowly from Nissan..... keep us updated

Empz

I don't know if its posted ... but could you Please tell me the TSB number for the Coils!!

Thanks

sleepermax

iTrader: (5)

Here's the number I got. Someone mentioned it on a post a few days ago but I can't remember who/where. It's not coming up on NHTSA's web site though, so it could be new? NTB 01-59.

TSB Search

By the way this was on a DynoJet and the guy did seem very knowledgable. He'd just gotten done with a two hour dyno/tuning session with another customer. He had a twin turbo, heavily modded Supra, putiing down 600HP or something like that!

max95q

iTrader: (10)

So is the ping whn the car starts up whn starter is turned over after it goes ping/ I hear that on my car and Ive actually been looking into new coils for my car. 0r are you guys talking about the regular ping in an engine ping

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

If the dealer uses the Consult feature. I would think they would be able to turn each coil on/off and see what's it doing voltage/ohm wise. Should be able to determine which ones are good/bad if any are bad. Maybe a quick check of the connectors.

sleepermax

iTrader: (5)

Dealer just called - said the technician doesn't even know where to begin to diagnose the problem because of my exhaust mods and the fact that I moved the rear O2 sensors behind the main cat! Said they would be more than happy to honor the warranty if I brought the car back to stock! I told him I'd even split the cost of diagnosing it - he said they wouldn't even know where to begin!!!!!

I guess I'm going to have to bring it back to stock......that manifold swap is going to be a bi****ch!

UMD - I don't have an OBDII scan tool but do you think it might be helpful? I may want buy one (what's a good one to get?).

Russ - do you know of any other dealers or shops in Austin that may be more helpful? I took it to Town North Nissan (where Dave Burnette works).

UMD_MaxSE

iTrader: (1)

Well, you can check to see if the coils are in somewhat of working order by measuring the resistance between terminals 2 and 3 using a voltmeter. You should get a non-zero resitance from them. It is outlined in the service manual... it's on my computer at work, so I can check tomorrow. A scan tool may help... though I don't know how much. I have this scan tool:

www.obd-2.com

You need a laptop and that's pretty much it. It's a neat tool, but I haven't had the time to play with it a whole lot to discover all the stuff that can be measured. Changing everything back to stock is a pain. None of those mods will affect the ignition coils or ignition timing. The guy should have seen that. Anyways, you can always get the coils and put them in yourself. I contacted Dave Burnette and he said they were $40 each.... that's $240 for a whole set, but it may be worth it.... who knows when and if the coils degrade and go bad if they are known to be faulty. I may get a set just in case....

RussMaxManiac

LOL, tell Dave about what happened, maybe he can help you.

I actually took my car to my dealer today, and he drove it around, and the damn car would not do its **** it always does to me!! Coughing between 1500-2500. Uggg. Anyways, the thing that upset me, he said some of his guys saw me racing the other month at the drag strip, asked if it was me. I was like, nope. He said that I borrowed a helmet from them. I was like, doh, I was like I have a friend that runs his, but I haven't . Damn idiots are trying to void my warranty again. I hate nissan.

RussMaxManiac

I can't figure this one out!

So which one do I need?

$122 quantity one
Your choice of one of three possible OBDII gateway router interfaces:
ISO - for European, Asian, Chrysler
VPW - for General Motors
PWM - for Ford
Notes:
98+ Concorde, Intrepid, LHS, 300M, Isuzu, 96-97 Toyota, Celica, Supra Turbo use VPW
96,97 Probe 2.5L, 96 Tracer 1.8L, 96 Escort 1.8L, Triumph, Geo, Catera, 97 Paseo, Camry, Avalon, 2000+ Celica, 2000+ Neon use ISO

UMD_MaxSE

iTrader: (1)

Get the ISO interface.... that will work on our cars... as an added bonus, it also works on other asian cars and european cars

sleepermax

iTrader: (5)

yeah I talked with Dave but he was telling me he has never seen a late 5th gen especially a 2K1 with the coil problem. He said Nissan changed the part number about 9 months into production so the early coils seem to be the problematic ones. Can't say enough about Dave Burnette! He is one great guy and gives great pricing!!!

I'm thinking it may be something else so I'm going back to stock - starting the job tonight and probably going to sell this car once the problem gets fixed. I'm liking the 5-speed more and more (easily hung with a Rustang GT yesterday on IH35) especially now that I put an OSCAI on it! Good luck with the dealer Russ!

UMD_MaxSE

iTrader: (1)

hmmm... so you are saying that the part number on the newer coils has been the same ever since then? Is there a part number on the coil itself that can be checked and referenced against the new part number? Mine was built on 5/2000, so it looks like I may be on the edge according to that info

RussMaxManiac

Yea my car was built on 12/00 too

sleepermax

iTrader: (5)

UMD I'm not sure what the part numbers are - but talk to Dave. You may not need them if you have the "new" ones.

UMD_MaxSE

iTrader: (1)

I'll try and pull a coil out tomorrow to see if I can find a number or something and then ask Dave what the new number is.... hopefully, that will clear things up

davedzny

The part numbers I have written down (still on backorder) are listed below:

Qty 3 - 22448-2Y000
Qty 3 - 22448-2Y005

This is for my 2K SE 5 speed. I believe these are probably the newer part numbers and are listed on the TSB. My symptoms started as an intermittent ping under hard acceleration, progressed to my SES light being tripped for a misfire on #4 cyl, and now the car is misfiring and shaking very bad at idle. Also, the SES light is now flashing if I try to accelerate above 3000 RPM, and the car is running very rough. Acceleration is non exsistent, and I am definitely running on only 5 or less cylinders as of now.

Since the coils are on backorder, I do not know when I will receive them. I called Nissan today to try to get a loaner car, and of course they didn't want to go for that so now I am trying to get some "financial restitution" since I shouldn't have to make payments when the car can barely be driven. BTW, my car only has 10,000 miles on it, and no mechanical mods. Gotta love Nissan.........

Dave Z

DAVEB

iTrader: (133)

Hey Guys-
I'm not sure that the coils have part #'s on them. I also realized after speaking to sleepermax, my co-worker's car that needed coils was a 03/00! The new part # allegedly went into effect 01/00! This is by far the newest car I have seen need new coils! I'm starting to think that the "old" coils were phased out gradually as old parts stocks were used up. One thing is sure, when the coils go out, the car pings like hell, even on 93 octane! I think there is something wrong with the dyno results that sleepermax got, it will be interesting find out why!
Regards,
David Burnette

RussMaxManiac

I don't understand how you guys can hear the ping over the loud engine. On my LS1 it was hard to hear, but I heard it on the dyno when they pulled the filter out. Sounded like marbles. hehe

Dave B

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH THE DYNO PLOT!!!!!!! ALL DYNO PLOTS LOOK LIKE THAT......until they correct the curves to look a little smoother. Most shops do this to make the curves easier to read. I seriously hop you haven't pulled anything off your car yet because there is nothing wrong with it. Your dyno curves are completely fine. You numbers don't look extremely low seeing that you do have an auto. We all know the Nissan auto sucks out well over 20% of the power. Don't forget that all dynos read a little differently. You really can't compare your numbers to someone else's numbers who ran on a completely machine. You need to test on the same machine. It's a measurement device for you car.

What gear did they dyno your car in?

What mods do you have?


Dave

sleepermax

iTrader: (5)

Dave B - Actually it WAS corrected and smoothed out! It looked even worse before it was corrected! And honestly my butt dyno tells me it's not pulling like it used to. This all started about a month and a half ago.

I just spent three hours taking off the Y-pipe, and front Fed manifold. I did notice that the front O2 sensor looked very different than the rear O2 sensor - it seemed to me the front sensor had experienced a lot more heat since it was almost ash white. Maybe it's just the O2 sensor? I did have the Y-pipe wrapped with header wrap for about a week so maybe this damaged the front O2 sensor? Anyway I did need to swap the manifold out with the original Cali spec manifold sooner or later so at least all this work is not in vain and I'll be able to get the car checked by the dealer.

DAVEB - I think you're right, it's probably not a bad coil. Thanks again for your help! I'll stop by tomorrow - Adam and Russ may be planning a meet at Rivercity this Friday!

unrealii

iTrader: (8)

If you guys want the obd-II units, www.tauruscarclub.com has a group buy open to ANYONE. Go here: http://www.tauruscarclub.com/disc.html, scroll down to the second item and fill out the form. I think you will be notified when the group buy is finsihed.

UMD_MaxSE

iTrader: (1)

hmmm... I had a bad front O2 sensor that tripped the check engine light on my car a few months back. It could be on it's way out for you... Luckily, they replaced the sensor without saying a word about the y-pipe.... I guess they never put the car up on a lift to replace the sensor

RussMaxManiac

Yeah but not sure if that is for the right model scanner for our cars.

unrealii

iTrader: (8)

Actually, the group buy is set up that you may purchase any model. Here's the price list from group buy number 5. I think we're at number 6 now.
I copied this off of the page for gb #5:
PWM for Ford - $73
VPW for GM - $73
ISO for Euro, Asian, Chry - $73
Notes:
98+ Concorde, Intrepid, LHS, 300M, 96-97 Toyota, all Celica, Supra Turbo use VPW
96,97 Probe 2.5L, 96 Tracer 1.8L, 96 Escort 1.8L, Triumph, Geo, Catera, 97 Paseo, Camry, Avalon use ISO
VPW-PWM for GM and Ford - $85
VPW-ISO for GM and Euro, Asian Chry - $85
PWM-ISO for Ford and Euro, Asian Chry - $85
3-Combo All Vehicles - $113
TriCom All Vehicles - $127
Indo-3 All Vehicles - $141

EDIT:
Oh the sign up form it has choices http://www.tauruscarclub.com/obd2.html

Dave B

I really don't think they corrected the dyno plot because it looks EXACTLY like one that hasn't been corrected. If you were getting misfires, the curves with look much more jagged and over longer intervals in the rpm range. Problems with 02 sensors and coil packs will be sensed by the ECU as either a 02 faliure or a cylinder misfire.

Again: What gear was the car dynoed in?

Again: What are you mods?


Dave

sleepermax

iTrader: (5)

OD off, third gear. Check profile for mods. I was standing beside the guy when he corrected it and saw it myself. I'm pretty sure it's a bad O2 sensor now, although I haven't yet gotten a CEL. 'preciate your input...


Unrealii - Thanks for the group buy info. That looks like a great deal!