JAY25

iTrader: (38)

Is this a good quality flywheel? Also is it true if you have an ACT clutch and you replace your flywheel with an aluminum one will the ACT clutch break it? This is a crazy but an important question I dont want to blow $375 plus replacing my flywheel and then it breaks with the ACT clutch.

theblue

one question, why do you want a lighter flywheel

ejj

iTrader: (5)

Um, why wouldn't you? I'm planning on getting one when the day comes.

JAY25

iTrader: (38)

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Good question but I been reading a couple of posts made here stating that the aluminum flywheel will free up power, no not just that also it will extend the life of an engine, and Phoung also told me that it would be like removing 180lbs off the car something like that. Since stillen wants $500 for that flywheel I guess I ll go with Fidanza for $375.

YOITSOKAY thank you very much for your input I really appreciate it. Thanks

JAY25

iTrader: (38)

Thats probably what he meant then hes a nice guy trying to help out Ill give Fidenza a call and there goes another $375.00, but I guess it will be worth it in the end.

Dave B

Removing rotational weight is gear dependant. The more gear you have, the more effective it is. 1st gear will show more of a performance increase than 2nd gear and so on. There is a downside to using lighter rotating assemblies like a lightened flywheel or UDP. When you take away rotating mass, it's harder for you motor to continue to spin once you let off the gas or enter the next gear. Simply put, it makes for harder smooth launches and jerkiness. If you get too greedy with a lightened flywheel, your rpms will drop like an anvil when you disengage the clutch. If you had a racecar, you wouldn't care, but when you've got to live and drive with it everyday, it will becoming very annoying. With just an UDP which weighs 3lbs less than the stock unit, I can notice a difference when trying to take off from a light or on gear changes. Make sure you research the weight of the lightened flywheel before you buy it.

What's the stock weight?
What's the lightened weight?

I wouldn't go with anything that's been lightened by anymore than 20%.


Dave

JAY25

iTrader: (38)

Make sure you research the weight of the lightened flywheel before you buy it.

What's the stock weight?
What's the lightened weight?

I wouldn't go with anything that's been lightened by anymore than 20%.


Dave [/B][/QUOTE]


So Dave your opinion is it worth the $375.00 or not? if is not then let me know Ill just get my stock one resurface for $30.00 and just save my money. I wont be dragging all the times either Just trying to save my engine and save a bit of gas, if I sound dumb is because I know no better. Jaime

got rice?

iTrader: (2)

my post has the math for first gear, which was around 180 lb static weight reduction. I don't remember the figures but I think 2nd gear was around 100-120 lbs.

A 180 lb static weight reduction is equivalent to almost .2 seconds in the quarter mile..

Vyrus

iTrader: (4)

But you don't have to pay that either. Just thought I'd let you know you can get it from www.PTuning.com for $370.45 shipped. When you checkout use the coupon code "ptnismo" and you will get an extra 5% off (which brings it to $375.45). Shipping is already free on Fidanza products because they are on special. Sorry, I have no idea how efficient they are, but Phoung is right you will lose over 100 lbs. Just thought I'd let you know about the deal.
-Cyrus

Dave B

So Dave your opinion is it worth the $375.00 or not? if is not then let me know Ill just get my stock one resurface for $30.00 and just save my money. I wont be dragging all the times either Just trying to save my engine and save a bit of gas, if I sound dumb is because I know no better. Jaime [/B][/QUOTE]

It all depends on what you are going for. Do you want your car to have racecar like tendencys or do you want to keep the acceleration and gear changes smooth? You also have to realize that you car won't want to coast nearly as well in gear. When you let off on the gas, you will feel yourself lunge forward a bit. The lower the gear, the worse the sensation. I think a reduction of 40-45% in flywheel weight is a bit excessive for the street, but that's just me. If I remember correctly, the 4th gen flywheels weighs 14-16lbs which isn't very heavy for a flywheel. The flywheel on a LT1/LS1 is pushing 40lbs and you rarely hear about those guys going for lightened flywheels. Why? Because if you go to light with the flywheel, your rpms drop to fast between the shifts, therefore potentially hurting your et.

Too bad no one in this org has never tested out one before and after on the track.

Kevin Wong

The stock flywheel is a two piece design and weighs a total of 22.5 pounds. The Fidanza should weigh between 8-11 pounds and the secondary piece and bolts weigh another 2.5 pounds. So in the end, the flywheel will weigh 10.5-13.5 pounds. I haven't heard any complaints about a lightened flywheel other "than you don't feel it that much in 3rd gear and up." If it does take .2 seconds off a 1/4 mile, this is the next bang for the buck power mod after the y-pipe.

ericdwong

from http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....light=flywheel (I also think this should be included in a sticky- my objective flywheel data, and how a OE 4th gen flywheel is not lightenable)

Some More Objective Flywheel Data
Alright I unbolted my secondary ring gear from the flywheel today and weighed it using my parent's postal scale, which is accurate to the .1 of an ounce. With the bolts that hold it to the flywheel, I put it on the scale and low and behold it came out to ONE pound, 10.8 ounces! That's less then two pounds total! So, the Unorthodox Racing flywheel of 5 pounds would realistically be around 6.675 pounds with the secondary ring gear bolted in place.
According to the Stillen website, their flywheel is at 13 pounds. According to my bathroom scale, the stock flywheel by itself weighs anywhere from 18-22 pounds cause I couldnt get an accurate reading. I will probably take the flywheel to a post office tomorow to have them weigh it (my parent's postal scale is only 5 pound capacity).

So, once again going back to the forumulas I rechecked my math. Looks like I screwed up somewhere, this time around I got a 137 pound weight reduction going from 24 to 12 pounds on a gen 4. If someone can recheck my math and advise. Anyway, at worst case scenario, the weight reduction would be about 11 pounds (going from 18 pound flywheel to a 7 pound flywheel). Here the reduction is 125 pounds or so. Now, the opposite extreme, if the stocker weighed 24 pounds, and we give the new flywheel a 7 pound weight, thats a 17 pound reduction. Then, going from a 24 pounder to a 7 pound is a 194 pound weight reduction. Assuming my car is 3100 pounds (I should get it weighed), thats about a 6% reduction in its weight. Of course weight is not the only factor here, theres also engine bogging, shifting of power in the power band. Since nobody here seems to have the Unorthodox Racing flywheel, I guess my only real way to say if its worth it or not is to go ahead and buy one then report back here. After all, launching the car will need readjustment as I've changed so many variables already (clutch, ATB, motor mounts). And, if the underdrive pulley made a significant difference, primarily cause of its weight reduction, I can imagine what this would do. Still hoping for 13s naturally aspirated, and I'll need all the help I can get.

Even More Objective Flywheel Data
Alright I got my OE flywheel weighed at the local post office, and they confirmed it was calibrated to spec, etc. The stock flywheel WITHOUT the secondary ring gear or bolts weighs 18 pounds, 7 ounces. I used my own postal scale and found the bolts and secondary ring gear to be 1 pound, 10.7 ounces. Add these two together and the total rotating mass (not including pressure plate) is 20 pounds, 1.7 ounce. Since the secondary has to be used with either flywheel the difference in weight is roughly 13 pounds, 7 ounces. Or 13.4375 pounds. Plug this number into our favorite equation up above and the weight reduction in first gear is equivalent of removing 153.8 pounds of static weight.

What do I conclude from this? The difference isnt as great as the 24 pound to 6 pound as I had hoped for. Since the unorthodox racing unit is even lighter then the Stillen unit it should make much more of a difference. I also looked on the Unorthodox Website regarding the underdrive pulley, and the drop in weight is almost 6 pounds. If people say their UDP's make a big difference, a 13 pound weight removal from the flywheel should make a huge difference.
_______________


I'm once again at another crossroads in deciding whether or not to do a Fidanza flywheel. At the price of $370 shipped from Ptuning.com (with code) its alot more affordable then the $500+ for the U/R or Stillen units. My transmission is out of the car and I'm probably going to cryo treat the clutch and flywheel parts too, so this is a perfect opportunity to add the flywheel.

As for the LT1/LS1, that 40 pound flywheel is also being pushed by a motor that produces 320+ ft lb torque verses our 200ish (pre 2002) ft lb torque motors. The fidanza wheel shouldnt suffer any sorta drivabilty problem like the U/R at 5 pounds unit might. I also ride a motorcycle and if you think the car revs fast, wait till you see how that thing revs! One thing about a lighter flywheel is that it may produce a bog effect at the drag strip. I dunno, I keep going back and forth on this one, but I guess life is short, its within reach, I suppose I could make the move and buy the flywheel.

95emeraldgxe

dont listen to anyone that reccomends a lightend flywheel - it aint a good way to spend yor hard earned mooHlah. You wont get any or very minimal performance gains, and it will hurt yor top end......think about throwing something that is very light- it wont go too far.......sumthing that is a decent weight will go real far, but if something is too heavy it wont go there......in this case, the stock flywheel is the decent one =).....spend your money on sum of those kool kick panels that shadow is working on.

ericdwong

Yes and no, the throwing something analogy isnt really correct. You say its like throwing something that is very light. Well this would be similar to if you were to get the car going and then let off the gas, cause unless you got a really long arm, you release whatever you're throwing after you "wind up and follow thru" with the power of your arm. But- if you're racing, do you let off the gas and let the car drift? No.

A better analogy would be pushing 2 different shopping carts with the same force that is applied to both. The lighter shopping cart will accelerate faster then the heavier one, however it will also decelerate faster too, because it has less mass and thus less momentum. This faster deceleration is what people who drive their cars as everyday cars have to deal with, or the drivability factor. If its a race car... who cares how fast the car decelerates when you let off the gas.......

People here have had considerable gains from the underdrive pulley units, and thats mostly from the weight savings. Imagine what a flywheel could do.

ivolley

iTrader: (1)

got rice?

iTrader: (2)

You've got me convinced ROFL.

Dave B

Eric -

That was a great write up. You also brought up a good point about the potential bog off the line in the 1/4 mile. I've got a UDP on my 96 Maxima. I believe the UDP removes ~3lbs from the stocker. One thing I've noticed at the drag strip is that when I'm staged and waiting to go, it's harder to keep my rpms steady. The second I'm staged, I bring the revs up to 4000-4200rpms. Now after the UDP, I have to sit there and push the gas in and out so that the rpms will stay in this range. If I just leave my foot on the gas, the rpms start to fall. It's hard to explain. Also, when I launch, I have to feed it more gas because the car is more prone to getting caught in a bog. All these things are fairly easy to overcome, but it takes some practice. The reason the rpms drop fast and the motor can get caught in a bog easier, is because the motor has less momentum therefore it's easier to decelerate the motor with force (ie clutch engagement). With a lightened the effects should be even more pronounced in terms of bog, lack of rpm steadiness, jerkiness on shifts, etc because of large reductin in reciprocating weight. I'd think a reduction in weight of 4-5lbs maybe just about right in terms of seeing some improvement on the strip. More than 5lbs in reduction may cause more trouble in launching than it's worth. But that's just my opinion and I have no data to back up my statement. I'm just going by my experiences with the UDP. Is it worth the $370 if I could find a flywheel that was the weight I wanted? I don't know, no one has tested it before and after. I'd also have to drive a Max with a lightened flywheel.

I've noted on other forums, that the general consensus is that a lightened flywheel is good for autocross/roadrace because you're only accelerating from a dead stop at the beginning of the race. At all other points in the track you're in either 1st, 2nd, 3rd at a roll and at WOT, therefore the bog won't be there. Plus the added deceleration of the motor may help in braking? In drag racing, many say the first 60' is what determines your race. If you're boggin off the line, then your et is gonna be had. You need to be coming off the line as hard as possible. If you take away from the car's ability to get off the line at a furious pace, then you're only hurting yourself. For every .1 you drop off your 60', you're looking at a .2 to .25 reduction in the 1/4.


Dave

JAY25

iTrader: (38)

Dave thanks for your input I was really anxious to get a flywheel it dont really seem to me like I would have any benefit from it. Ill just resurface my flywheel then. The only way Ill change my mind is if someone proves to me that is worth the money. Even Cheston said it was not worth the money.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Told ya so!

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I had might lightened and it was a good mod. That was only 3lbs. difference. If you believe the udps work then you should also believe the lighter fylwheels work. It's plain physics.

The reason lightened flywheels don't work best for drag racing is becuase flywheels are energy storage units. When you rev and take off, the heavier flywheel will help the engine keep the revs up and reduce the amount of rpm drop during shifts. In drag racing you already have your revs super high so there is no need to really help the engine rev quicker perse.

When you release the clutch, a lighter flywheel will help the engine rev faster. This is good for auto-x and road racing as you need to rev fast after coming out of turns etc.. But it should help your everyday driving also. Alot of your driving is from about 2-3000 rpm and pressing the gas. You don't smoke your tires and rev at 6000 rpm at every light do you?

It's your money and even $400 is a chunk of change. The unit will not make a HUGE difference but it's there nevertheless.

I have absolutely no idea what 95emerald is saying. Doesn't make sense. Hurt the high end?

JAY25

iTrader: (38)

I want to thank everyone for all the input this is one very good post in my opinion, all you guys have great input and $400 is alot, I am going to be doing more regular driving more then anything else and the track Id just go to just have fun once in a while so I guess is not worth it after all if it was then the majority of you guys would have said yes good idea get it, and then like someone else said it has not even been tested like a before and after. If someone as Picky as Mardigrasmax who is a power hungry Maxaholic and Cheston says is not worth it then Ill take their word for it, and yes everyone is only their opinion but keep in Mind I dont go dragging all the time nor do I go and pick a race every minute I go out, is not safe in everyday traffic. Thanks everyone.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I'll stick this one and maybe move it later.

OriginalMadMax

I have the Mueller flywheel in my '97. I got it from Stillen for $425 (they matched a price I saw somewhere else) and I have a JWT stage 1 clutch (ACT was out of stock for at least a month and I needed a clutch right away). The JWT is similar in spec to the ACT. I've had no problems with this setup for several months now. The car is quicker off line, cruises well and mileage is up, maybe 2 mpg (so the flywheel will pay for itself within 2 years). I do hook up quicker so I have some traction problems Time to get the Quaife installed! I hesitated to do the flywheel, but when it was time for a clutch I decided to give it a try. I have no regrets so far.

95emeraldgxe

dont bother with that crap.....its a waste of money.......buy sum subs =)

OriginalMadMax

My '97 is a daily driver. It has almost 115k on it. I got it with 60k 2 years ago, so you can see what kind of mileage I put on. I went with the lightened flywheel perhaps 6 months ago when I did my clutch. No one had a real solid opinion, mostly speculation, and I figured the only way to tell was to do it myself. I like the results! The car definitely revs faster. Between the JWT clutch and flywheel, I fight for traction. I do NOT particularly notice any faster deceleration, which I expected. My mileage is up. Most of my driving is in the Bay Area; lots of traffic, and hills in SF. I do notice a LITTLE bit of bogging at medium throttle off the line, but I can eliminate it with a steady foot. I haven't autocrossed since I got it (having problems dialing in the upgraded coilover suspension). The bottom line is I can feel positive effects, and there is nothing negative to say I wouldn't do it again. Now, is it worth $400? What other mods can be done in that price range? I already have a y-pipe, cone intake and Konis ...

AllGo

iTrader: (1)

I just would like to add that earlier someone stated that the lightweight flywheel reduces reciprocating mass when they meant rotating mass. With my experience with my VE30DE the flywheel was a mueller fabs piece weighing 11lbs and it never gave me any bogging issues and I also have an underdrive pulley weighing only 3lbs. The stock flywheel was about 22lbs and the stock crank pulley was about 11lbs so I lost a total of 19lbs and no drivability issues. The gain in hp and tq are noticable and worth it if you are doing a clutch. For a driving example when you are rowing through the gears, say a 2-3 shift. As the revs are dropping and you don't give it just the perfect amount of throttle to match rpm's when engaging, the lightened flywheel is very forgiving. The engine will pick up rpm's much faster because less energy is needed to turn that heavy iron flywheel. I found that shifting became much easier and consistent with mine. I am not sure how the VQ would do but I would assume that it wouldn't be a bad mod, definately frees up hp.

Chebosto

iTrader: (1)

I have the stillen (aka mueller) flywheel on my car. first noticable difference is the quickness in acceleration. plain and simple, lighter the wheel, the faster it will rotate, and thus you can differentiate the power gain thru-out the power band. I like the flywheel because 1) i can play rev matching MUCH faster. i.e. heel toe on the track or when i need to engine brake. like the UDP, (which is a significant weight difference.) the car will be jumpy in engine rpms. 2) for SC cars, the higher the revs, the more the boost, i find myself getting too quick too fast, so. :P

the problem i'm having with the flywheel is when starting the car, because its lighter than stock, the amount of rotational mass, in my opinion, is bogging the car when trying to start. but once started, its fine in driving..

for $400 or so bucks, its pricey. you'd prolly find better uses for that cash (ecu. but hey. wheres sprint to flame me) but all in all, one who seeks power must go thru this stage at one time or another.

what would be dope would be an aluminum under drive pulley stock size.... but alas. as delio stated. pipe dreams until i get some $$ to fund my projects.

BUT DO NOT. and i repeat, DO NOT lighten the stock flywheel. if you look at your stock flywheel when you change the clutch, you might notice some deep heat spotting. why? if you drive like me, then you'll be revvin' the car pretty high for long periods of time, and that will cause heat scoring of the metal. and in order to get ride of it, you'd have to shave off lotsa metal, cuz when things get that hot from friction, heat travels far... and if you try to resurface it and in a sense lighten it, then you'd have to go pretty far down..... which might be a good excuse to get a new flywheel....

best of luck. but anyhoo, i'm just another person what do i know? try it yourself and report back.