5th Gen VQ in 4th Gen
02-12-2002, 07:39 PM
#1
5th Gen VQ in 4th Gen
As most of you know I need a new engine for my 4th gen. I need a 97-99 VQ30DE to swap in. I was curious whether anyone knows whether a 2000-2001 VQ30DE would swap in without too much custom work. The things I am most concerned about are sensors, ecu, etc. I know it's a shot in the dark, but if I could make it work it'd be worth the extra money for me to spend to get the newer engine. Let me know, thanks.
02-12-2002, 08:51 PM
#3
Brian, I think it can be done. You would need to get a 5th gen ECU, and a few other minor pieces. But it is not that custom at all. Well, you may be able to just use the block. Without any changes.
02-12-2002, 09:44 PM
#5
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,060
Originally posted by La Jolla Max
Hmmm...the 4th gen VQ has better midrange than the 5th gen's engine. And the 'middle east' variable intake manifold might erase the DE-K's power advantage.
Hmmm...the 4th gen VQ has better midrange than the 5th gen's engine. And the 'middle east' variable intake manifold might erase the DE-K's power advantage.
I think trying the DE-K swap would be very worthwhile
02-12-2002, 10:36 PM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,441
Originally posted by SteVTEC
I think this is because the 4th Gen has a slightly better torque/weight ratio than the 5th Gen's go. The 5th Gen's have a lot more weight, but not enough torque to make up for it. Their top-end rules though with the variable manifold.
I think trying the DE-K swap would be very worthwhile
I think this is because the 4th Gen has a slightly better torque/weight ratio than the 5th Gen's go. The 5th Gen's have a lot more weight, but not enough torque to make up for it. Their top-end rules though with the variable manifold.
I think trying the DE-K swap would be very worthwhile
02-12-2002, 11:24 PM
#10
Dyno plot says I have the most area under the Administrator curve
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 7,060
Originally posted by La Jolla Max
I never said anything about the power/weight ratio. Compare their stock dyno charts and you'll see what I mean.
I never said anything about the power/weight ratio. Compare their stock dyno charts and you'll see what I mean.
02-13-2002, 12:03 AM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,441
Originally posted by SteVTEC
Hmm...now I'm curious. Got any useful links? I tried searching dyno but there's about a zillion dyno threads...
Hmm...now I'm curious. Got any useful links? I tried searching dyno but there's about a zillion dyno threads...
but I can tell you that the 4th gen VQ makes around 10ft-lbs more in the midrange stock..
But I don't have any proof of the numbers
02-13-2002, 05:41 AM
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Oh really? Compare this...
2k Auto stock
http://www.5thgenmaximas.com/russmax...nos/2kauto.jpg
2k1 stock 5spd
http://www.5thgenmaximas.com/russmaxmaniac/dyno2k1.jpg
98 Stock 5spd
http://www.5thgenmaximas.com/russmax...s/98se5spd.jpg
96 Stock auto
http://www.5thgenmaximas.com/russmax...s/96seauto.jpg
2k Auto stock
http://www.5thgenmaximas.com/russmax...nos/2kauto.jpg
2k1 stock 5spd
http://www.5thgenmaximas.com/russmaxmaniac/dyno2k1.jpg
98 Stock 5spd
http://www.5thgenmaximas.com/russmax...s/98se5spd.jpg
96 Stock auto
http://www.5thgenmaximas.com/russmax...s/96seauto.jpg
02-13-2002, 05:48 AM
#14
Originally posted by BrianV
Oh I didn't know, well if someone could really get on this and figure out what is necessary I'd be forever grateful.
Oh I didn't know, well if someone could really get on this and figure out what is necessary I'd be forever grateful.
02-13-2002, 06:12 AM
#15
Yeah, re-build the 4th gen motor and drop the middle east variable intake on top. The Middle East 4th gen has 220 hp. Maybe the US 4th gen with Mid-east intake will have 215 hp stock, due to more emissions on the US motor than the mid-east motor. May not be quite the 5th gen, but it'll probably very close, like less than 5% off. AND your re-built 4th gen motor will make you faster than the 5th gen b/c of the 5th gen's weight dis-advantage. This is much more of a sure thing than the 5th gen upgrade.
There's more potential gotcha's with putting a 5th gen motor in a 4th gen, I would think, but who knows. One example, the variable intake on the 5th gen is taller than the 4th gen, so there you have a potential hood closing problem. Word is that some 99s had 5th gen ECUs, so it's possible, I guess
DW
There's more potential gotcha's with putting a 5th gen motor in a 4th gen, I would think, but who knows. One example, the variable intake on the 5th gen is taller than the 4th gen, so there you have a potential hood closing problem. Word is that some 99s had 5th gen ECUs, so it's possible, I guess
DW
Originally posted by La Jolla Max
Hmmm...the 4th gen VQ has better midrange than the 5th gen's engine. And the 'middle east' variable intake manifold might erase the DE-K's power advantage.
Hmmm...the 4th gen VQ has better midrange than the 5th gen's engine. And the 'middle east' variable intake manifold might erase the DE-K's power advantage.
02-13-2002, 06:32 AM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 100
Re: 5th Gen VQ in 4th Gen
Originally posted by BrianV
As most of you know I need a new engine for my 4th gen. I need a 97-99 VQ30DE to swap in. I was curious whether anyone knows whether a 2000-2001 VQ30DE would swap in without too much custom work. The things I am most concerned about are sensors, ecu, etc. I know it's a shot in the dark, but if I could make it work it'd be worth the extra money for me to spend to get the newer engine. Let me know, thanks.
As most of you know I need a new engine for my 4th gen. I need a 97-99 VQ30DE to swap in. I was curious whether anyone knows whether a 2000-2001 VQ30DE would swap in without too much custom work. The things I am most concerned about are sensors, ecu, etc. I know it's a shot in the dark, but if I could make it work it'd be worth the extra money for me to spend to get the newer engine. Let me know, thanks.
My personal project car is an '85 Monte Carlo SS with an '87 IROC 5.0. The Chevy engine was the same size, and bolted up the same way, so that was the easy part. Converting my car from carb to fuel injection was not, but definitely worth it in the end!
Hope that helps ya!
02-13-2002, 06:53 AM
#17
Member
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 256
Originally posted by RussMaxManiac
It's pretty obvious in these dyno graphs that the 5th gen makes way more TQ.
It's pretty obvious in these dyno graphs that the 5th gen makes way more TQ.
Way more torque, eh? Max_Gator and I dynoed on the "same dyno" and his max torque was 191.8 and mine was 192.1. We have virtually the same mods (he has the pop charger, I have CAI).
If I had a choice of engines, I would chose the 5th gen obviously because of it's high end breathing characteristics.
All 'n all the 4th gen deserves respect too.
Terry
02-13-2002, 07:11 AM
#18
Originally posted by yo_its_ok
Be a nut job like me:
01 VQ35DE block
01 VQ35DE heads
95 ME/VI manifold
96 ECU
00 to 96 adapter harness.(Easier than you think.)
Custom 6qt sheetmetal oil pan.
Be a nut job like me:
01 VQ35DE block
01 VQ35DE heads
95 ME/VI manifold
96 ECU
00 to 96 adapter harness.(Easier than you think.)
Custom 6qt sheetmetal oil pan.
because the other VQ35 came out in 02..
02-13-2002, 07:13 AM
#19
Why would you take the older manifold over the new one which is supposed to go on the VQ35DE?? Not only that, isn't the variable intake on the VQ35 more variable than the Middle east one? The middle east seems to have only 2 modes, the VQ35 one is 'more' continuously adjustable, no?
DW
DW
Originally posted by yo_its_ok
Be a nut job like me:
01 VQ35DE block
01 VQ35DE heads
95 ME/VI manifold
96 ECU
00 to 96 adapter harness.(Easier than you think.)
Custom 6qt sheetmetal oil pan.
Be a nut job like me:
01 VQ35DE block
01 VQ35DE heads
95 ME/VI manifold
96 ECU
00 to 96 adapter harness.(Easier than you think.)
Custom 6qt sheetmetal oil pan.
02-13-2002, 07:23 AM
#21
Originally posted by yo_its_ok
Sprite is sharp, and for the fool who emailed me after reading my post that there was no VQ35DE in 2001, Lick mah ballzzzz
Sprite is sharp, and for the fool who emailed me after reading my post that there was no VQ35DE in 2001, Lick mah ballzzzz
02-13-2002, 07:32 AM
#23
Ahhhhhh, I see. I have been enlightened. Looks like your gonna have a 300 hp Max before Nissan does
DW
DW
Originally posted by yo_its_ok
I'm having "stuff" done to it. Outflows the DE-K easily. BTW add one Powerdyne S/C w/ 2.70" pulley.
If I used the DE-K manifold, I have to use the 2K ECU, which is unprogramable. Since I'm having a 96 ECU reprogg'd might as well use a early 4th gen manifold and if the ME/VI for95 is the only thing I could find, then well that's where I stand now.
I'm having "stuff" done to it. Outflows the DE-K easily. BTW add one Powerdyne S/C w/ 2.70" pulley.
If I used the DE-K manifold, I have to use the 2K ECU, which is unprogramable. Since I'm having a 96 ECU reprogg'd might as well use a early 4th gen manifold and if the ME/VI for95 is the only thing I could find, then well that's where I stand now.
02-13-2002, 07:49 AM
#24
Originally posted by yo_its_ok
I'm having "stuff" done to it. Outflows the DE-K easily. BTW add one Powerdyne S/C w/ 2.70" pulley.
If I used the DE-K manifold, I have to use the 2K ECU, which is unprogramable. Since I'm having a 96 ECU reprogg'd might as well use a early 4th gen manifold and if the ME/VI for95 is the only thing I could find, then well that's where I stand now.
I'm having "stuff" done to it. Outflows the DE-K easily. BTW add one Powerdyne S/C w/ 2.70" pulley.
If I used the DE-K manifold, I have to use the 2K ECU, which is unprogramable. Since I'm having a 96 ECU reprogg'd might as well use a early 4th gen manifold and if the ME/VI for95 is the only thing I could find, then well that's where I stand now.
Anyway, are you still looking to release the SC alternative to Stillen in the spring? You got my hopes up last year man. Hope your answer is in the affirmative.
Peace...
02-13-2002, 09:30 AM
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Per the Graph above for STOCK VS STOCK, the 5th gen makes more.
Originally posted by maxfreak_98
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Way more torque, eh? Max_Gator and I dynoed on the "same dyno" and his max torque was 191.8 and mine was 192.1. We have virtually the same mods (he has the pop charger, I have CAI).
If I had a choice of engines, I would chose the 5th gen obviously because of it's high end breathing characteristics.
All 'n all the 4th gen deserves respect too.
Terry
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Way more torque, eh? Max_Gator and I dynoed on the "same dyno" and his max torque was 191.8 and mine was 192.1. We have virtually the same mods (he has the pop charger, I have CAI).
If I had a choice of engines, I would chose the 5th gen obviously because of it's high end breathing characteristics.
All 'n all the 4th gen deserves respect too.
Terry
02-13-2002, 10:40 AM
#29
Brian if you are going to go through all the trouble of doing an engine swap why not look into the 300ZX engine?? I understand you will have the same problems as swapping in a 5th gen.. but if you are really going to go through a lot of work why not have A LOT of engine to work with, turbo's and all, already there.
good luck at whatever you decide, how did the engine die??
good luck at whatever you decide, how did the engine die??
02-13-2002, 10:59 AM
#31
Originally posted by thebigsadler
Brian if you are going to go through all the trouble of doing an engine swap why not look into the 300ZX engine?? I understand you will have the same problems as swapping in a 5th gen.. but if you are really going to go through a lot of work why not have A LOT of engine to work with, turbo's and all, already there.
good luck at whatever you decide, how did the engine die??
Brian if you are going to go through all the trouble of doing an engine swap why not look into the 300ZX engine?? I understand you will have the same problems as swapping in a 5th gen.. but if you are really going to go through a lot of work why not have A LOT of engine to work with, turbo's and all, already there.
good luck at whatever you decide, how did the engine die??
I'm interested in this middle-east manifold or whatever that guy said?
02-13-2002, 11:52 AM
#32
Originally posted by RussMaxManiac
Per the Graph above for STOCK VS STOCK, the 5th gen makes more.
Per the Graph above for STOCK VS STOCK, the 5th gen makes more.
every STOCK 4th gen 5-speed dyno I've seen was in the 162-164 fwhp range......
the stock Auto 4th gen on there ran a CIVIC SI territory dyno of 140fwhp....right.....
02-13-2002, 01:06 PM
#33
Supporting Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,159
Middle East Variable Intake
If you do a search, you'll come up with a whoooole lot of threads.
MardiGrasMax recently installed it into his Max.
If you do a search, you'll come up with a whoooole lot of threads.
MardiGrasMax recently installed it into his Max.
Originally posted by BrianV
I'm interested in this middle-east manifold or whatever that guy said?
I'm interested in this middle-east manifold or whatever that guy said?
02-13-2002, 01:18 PM
#34
Re: 5th Gen VQ in 4th Gen
Originally posted by BrianV
As most of you know I need a new engine for my 4th gen. I need a 97-99 VQ30DE to swap in. I was curious whether anyone knows whether a 2000-2001 VQ30DE would swap in without too much custom work. The things I am most concerned about are sensors, ecu, etc. I know it's a shot in the dark, but if I could make it work it'd be worth the extra money for me to spend to get the newer engine. Let me know, thanks.
As most of you know I need a new engine for my 4th gen. I need a 97-99 VQ30DE to swap in. I was curious whether anyone knows whether a 2000-2001 VQ30DE would swap in without too much custom work. The things I am most concerned about are sensors, ecu, etc. I know it's a shot in the dark, but if I could make it work it'd be worth the extra money for me to spend to get the newer engine. Let me know, thanks.
I took a good look at the 3.5 and it should mount up the exact same as the 97-99 engines do, it's no bigger it just has different internals in it
02-13-2002, 04:38 PM
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by BriGuyMax
Am I the only one that noticed the BS is Russ's dyno graphs.....according to his dynos a STOCK 4th gen 5-speed only makes 150fwhp...if you do the standard 15% drivetrain loss correction on that....you're at a WHOPPING 172 crank HP....hmmm...something wrong there...
every STOCK 4th gen 5-speed dyno I've seen was in the 162-164 fwhp range......
the stock Auto 4th gen on there ran a CIVIC SI territory dyno of 140fwhp....right.....
Am I the only one that noticed the BS is Russ's dyno graphs.....according to his dynos a STOCK 4th gen 5-speed only makes 150fwhp...if you do the standard 15% drivetrain loss correction on that....you're at a WHOPPING 172 crank HP....hmmm...something wrong there...
every STOCK 4th gen 5-speed dyno I've seen was in the 162-164 fwhp range......
the stock Auto 4th gen on there ran a CIVIC SI territory dyno of 140fwhp....right.....
02-13-2002, 05:05 PM
#40
Originally posted by yo_its_ok
Sold a VE w/ 10K miles on it.(Not Joking.)
Sold a VE w/ 10K miles on it.(Not Joking.)
You can run a background check on me through Sprinty, he'll tell you I'm a d!ck but that's OK.
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