[QUOTE]Originally posted by madmax2k

Quote:

Nice gains with your work!

Something still doesnt seem right with a 255 crank hp engine making only around 205 whp stock. I dont buy that the trans is causing a 20% loss. It seems to me Nissan fudged some numbers.

Take a look at a 2000-2001 Auto dyno. The drive train loss of the 2002 auto should be the same. A 2000-2001 put down in the ball pake of 160-15ish FWHP. A 2002 auto puts down about 19-195 FWHP. If you compare these #'s the 2K2 is clearly making about 30 more FWHP then last years max. Last years max was rated at 222 and this years is rated at 255. The 30 HP increase seems quite clear to me. So unless you think the 2000-2001 was underated then the 2K2 is not underated.

Quote:

Isnt it suspicious that, at the last minute, they dropped the rating from 260 to 255 hp? (Ditto what they did on the Sentra?) That 255 hp still seems like a stretch. Id say its more like 240 hp tops. They gained a crapload of torque (30+ w ft lb), but maybe only 10-15 whp in going to the 3.5L. But, it still should make for a significantly quicker car due to the average power being greater over the usable rpm band.

No not at all. The reason they droped the #'s 5hp is because of "advertisement". They are rating the new G35 at 260 HP becuase they want people to think the G35 is more powerfull then the max. Also they want the G35 to compete with the other high end name plate in the market, which is the Acura TL-S. When the 2 door G35 comes out they it will compete with the CL-S.

 

People always ask for dynoes, then when you I go out and do a dyno you still don't "buy" it . My whole powerband is up, it's not like the dyno plot spiked at the end and gave me these new peak #'s. Last time at the dyno I milked my car for everything it was worth and the best #'s of that day are being compared to yesterdays new best #'s. Theres no if and's or but's aboiut it, the gains are real.

 

We will see

 

Stock 2000 Max 5 speed = 191-193 whp and 222 crank hp rating. 14% driveline loss.

Stock 2002 Max 6 speed = 204-205 whp and 255 crank hp rating. 20% driveline loss.

So, of the 32 extra crank hp, only 13-14 makes it to the wheels? That cannot be explained by an inefficient transmission. (Unless of course Nissan has managed to create the world's most inefficient manual transmission since 1965! Heck, the SAE standard is only 18% and thats based on 1960's data!)

 

Don't stear away from the subject. Explain what I said when I compared the auto trannys, that's the only way to properly compare it. And yes the 6spd tranny is most definatly extrememly ineficient. Sad but true..

A Acura TL-S is rated at 260 Crank HP and puts down the same amout of HP as the 2002 auto max(190"s FWHP). So do you think that the TL-S is even more overated then a maxima? Think about it..

If you look at a auto corvette and 6spd corvette the 6spd only puts out a couple more HP then the auto. It's the same deal with the max.

 

Your argument for the 6 speed's in-efficiency compared to the 5 speed makes a whole lot of sense. Now, why is the loss more, weight?? The xtra gear and synchro?? Gotta be more than that.

Oh, I think I get it, with our trannies, all our gears are always spinning when the car is rolling, or continually meshed. So, with a 6 speed, there's more gears for the engine to spin along, similar to the drivetrain loss of an AWD vehicle. Great off the line performance set back by the fact that the car has to lug that drivetrain around, only making full use of it at launch. In this case, the 6 speeds greater potential feul economy and relaxed cruising is slightly offset by a little more drivetrain loss.

The only way I could see Nissan, or any car maker, making the 6 speed more efficient, is to make the gearbox out of titanium or something, not too cost effective.

DW

 

Stock TL-S's dyno at around 205 hp, with comptech headers, its around 230 hp.

 

Im not steering away from the subject at all.

I have no idea what TL-S dyno at. However, I still believe a 20% loss through the driveline is completely unrealistic for a modern manual transmission.

If in fact Nissan has suceeded in creating such a transmission, I wholeheartedly applaud their effort. It must have been a herculean task to assemble an entire team of first year students at the U of Toyko ME department to come up with this new 6 speed on such short notice!

LOL.

Also, what about the Sentra SER Spec V? Nissan appears to have overrated that engine as well. It seems as though those cars are dynoing in the 145 whp range and rated at 175 crank hp. Most other cars rated in that range, such as the VR6 (172 crank hp) and GSR (170 crank hp) test out higher. The VR6 generally makes around 155 whp and the GSR 150 whp.

So, it seems that fudging the numbers a bit is not unique to the Maxima.

 

Hey Emax,

Where did you purchase your Cat-back at that price?

-Left

 

Wow. Not a bad gain at all.

SuDZ

 

Nissan is fudging the numbers on the Maxima. An extra cog isn't going to suck out that much power. The helical limited slip will suck out a little power, but not a non-HLSD 6 speed. Borg Warner, Tremec, BMW, and Toyota have no problems making fairly efficent 6 speeds (12-15%), I don't know why Nissan would be any different. Truth be told, the motor in the Maxima is the same motor in the Altima.

Ethan-
I'm sure you Stang buddy is impressed with your Maxima. I got the same reaction from a gentlemen when I raced his 00 GT 5 speed with an exhaust and drag radials. He went 14.3@98.9 to my 14.6@97.8. He couldn't believe a NA V6 Jap sedan could be that fast.



Dave

 

All I gotta say is I LOVE MINE.....its freggin fast.

YOU GO ETHAN!!! SHOW US THE PATH, .........

WE WILL FOLLOW!!!!

 

I did a search at the CL-S forum yesterday and I read a post of a stock 2002 CL-S putting down 198 FWHP stock, everyone said it was normal. The headers added 32 FWHP to one members car..



As for the maxima being underated. I will say it again, look at the 2K2 auto dynoes there right were they should be for 255 crank HP. Compare the 2K2 max "auto" to a 2002 Altima "auto" and the max clearly makes a bit more HP. If you want me to beleive nissan is underating the max you will have explain this first..


On other news, I called up Stillen today and recieved some interesting news. I was told that stillen has a new R&D team and a meeting is being held this Friday. Headers are planned to go into developement shortly and so is a new front lip . If our max's can gain as much HP as a CL-S with headers my max will be putting down 249 FWHP . 300 HP NA club anyone?

Also I ordered some 18X8 Moda R6's and 245/40/18 Kumhos!

 

I like your attitude! Maxin' out the Max and will be putting some boosting Maximas to shame! With the UDP, headers, and Y-pipe your car should be close to 300HP at the crank. Who know what NISMO has in store as well!

 

A good ECU could put me a bit above 300 crank HP with all the mods!
This will be fun

 

kumho's come on man.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Nissan having problems with the 6-speed tranny handling the power? This could explain why the transmission is inefficient as they had to make it inefficient so that it wouldn't break, this is just my theory.

As for the continuing to gain at high RPMs, I think a 2k2, auto with a custom fabricated intake of some sort, that dynoed this weekend also had increasing numbers throughout the entire powerband so I don't think it is that rare. I just forget whose car it was. . . Kev or somebody may be able to put more enlightenment on this as it was in front of a lot of people from NorCal.

 

You can not beat teh price . The tires recieved very good ratings on tirerack.com too. Tehy should be ok for me.



Adidas_Boy, interesting. That may be the case with teh tranny. I would lovew to hear some more about teh otehr 2K2 max with teh crazy powerband like mine .


For Mr. Dave B. I looked over my dyno when I removed my franken ram. My peak HP is a 5400 RPM! Ha, that's funny huh. My car still did not drop off like a stone like everyone elses, it just held steady from 5400 RPM on. With the Franken ram my #'s at 5400 are actually higer and then my #'s keep on going up until 6350 RPM.

 

headers would be a nice addition to the list of mods our 2k2 maxes have

 

Another interesting thing was at about 5400 RPM on the 2k2 that dynoed on Sun, even though the traction control was turned off the light still flashed. . . While this may not effect manual trannies, this may somehow effect autos. . . although no real losses were really shown on the dyno as far as I remember. There were like 14 dynos I saw on sunday, so I could be just remembering someone elses as far as the powerband thing. . .

 

you live in the northeast, right?

I have Kumho's...they're hard as a rock in cold weather..

 

Automatics are tricky to dyno. If you do it in a gear when the tranny locks, youll get a higher number than if it doesnt. At what speed/rpm does the torque converter lock up?

 

ya they are ok, i heard someone say that kumhos are 90% of the performance for 60% of the price of a Pole Position and G-force, BUT Steve i know you all too well and you need that extra 10% so get the g-force t/a's.

-steve

 

They are my spring, summer, fall tires so they should be pretty warm?



Madmax2K, same as last years auto probably.


Steve, I allready ordered those tires so..

 

it's ok, they are still better then teh stock ones but i need traction.

 

I dont think youll be disappointed in the Kumhos. Ive got a set on a car that makes alot more power and torque than a 2002 Max and they work great. A friend also has a set on a car making about 350 ft lb of torque (and weighing 2500 lb) and hes had great luck with them.

Of course, you can spin them if you want to, but thats going to be true of any tire, even drag slicks.

In the bang for the buck department, Kumhos are very hard to beat. As mentioned above, you get 90% of the performance of the top tires at half the price. That extra 10% performance wont even be noticed on the street. Were not talking the Daytona 500 here!

 

it was hard to pass them up BUT i got a GREAT DEAL on my g-forces 725 for set of 245/40/18 SHIPPED.

 

my winter tires are 15 inch Kuhmos