TexMaximum

To say Domestic is CRAP is silly. They will all be the same very soon. In case you havent already noticed the trends, tts almost that way now. GM has its week points like any car company. I would say Nissan has one in exterior design with bland “bubble” cars with big rounded sheets of "plian" metal. Here is an example of why its silly to say “import that domestic this”:

To strengthen its weak areas GM has formed partnerships with a number of foreign "import" auto makers. Keep in mind GM is still #1 auto maker in the world:

Its codeveloping new small cars with Suzuki and Toyota "you know...the ultra reliable import, thats right Toyota". Its teaming with subaru to gain access to that makers all-wheel-drive technology.

It gets better, it has even contacted to buy HO v6 engines from Honda. Its then using Isuzu's diesel engine technology for heavy duty trucks.

Are Asian cars “import” then? Most of the Asia models don’t even belong to Asia now with the exception of Honda which has fought of outsiders despite the countries persistent recession. Toyota is also still strong, and the 3rd largest Motor company in the world.

None the less, Renault has bought Nissan. GM owns half of Isuzu and 20% of Suzuki. Ford controls Mazda, and DaimlerCrysler is allied with Mitsubishi as many already figured out with their similar cars on different name plates.

Auto industry is global and those that act likes its not, don't understand. Cars are increasingly less really built or owned by the geographic location the name plate may suggest. Another example, BMW is a good car, but is just another Brand with a plant in NC USA. I think there SUV is only made in the US, even if the car is called Bavarian Motor Works.

I’m ranting and raving because of the domestics are crap and ugly, and imports are “cool” posts going around.

WoodEar

One thing I beg to differ is:
Even some Japanese makers and German makers have planets in the US, it doesn't make it the same as real US domestic cars.
I mean, it's more about the concept and philosophy behind a car, than where is the car finally assembled.

For example:
When BMW wanted to make a new M3, they say, fine let's have a 3.4L I6 engine that winds to 8000rpm, and we shall have 50/50 weight distribution, and we will use Getrag 6sp manual gear box with optimal gearing, we want stiff suspension, we want this and that... So ok, that's the philosophy. Now if that car is assembled in the NC plant, it's still a great car, except *maybe* the workmanship won't be as good as if assembled in Munich.
Now look at a Buick by GM, as long as the concept and philosophy stays the same, you can hand build that car in Italy, it's STILL a POS, you can't change that.

Thus, in my opinion, having Honda make cars in US, it doesn't make them domestic, and it doesn't prove domestic is good.

WoodEar

Btw, does that mean before they are the same, they are crap??

TexMaximum

Hey woodear, you got me all wrong. I’m simply saying you can NOT call ALL domestics crap because they all have their hands in each other pockets and it will be even closer in quality soon.

I’m not saying a BMW built in the US is just another Domestic. Read again. That was an example to “owned by the geographic location the name plate may suggest”. I knew that a BMW example would get your attention though

My main point is how GM will have the best from all “imports”, and how everyone owns someone else i.e Jaguar being “just another Ford”. Now I'd hope for the price the Jag doesn't ride like the focus of course.

Now even Ford makes some decent performance cars they don’t release in the US. So they also have good philosophy. I have lived overseas. For some reason Domestic car companies haven’t noticed until recently that Americans crave the same refinement as Europe, not that they can’t do it, because they have...over there.


[Edited by TexMaximum on 12-06-2000 at 10:14 PM]

TexMaximum

My main point: The Automotive Industry is really “Global”. Just like a Ford is an “Import” to Germans, which regard their own "domestics" better then all others anyway (with good reason to).

I guess I’m just fighting the stereotypes, that will be shattered soon anyhow in more pieces then most realize right now.

WoodEar

Hey, have to give GM some credit here, if they can't beat you, they freaking buy your a$$, that works too

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Both of you guys have fine points. Chris is right about the philosophy thing. Ie.. even though Ford owns Jaguar, it Ford takes great pains to make sure Jaguar keeps their brand identity very seperate from Ford's identity. Basicly, Jag just uses Ford's superior enconomy of scale and very advanced development software. There is even some sharing of parts, but don't expect to see the same leather, switches, burl wood etc... in a Ford. Ford uses Jaguar's superior craftmanship and their small specialty car development skills to turn around prototypes and etc.. faster.

And Ford has been making very bad-assed turbo charged cars in Europe for 20 years. All the way back to the Cortina to the Cosworth powered Sierras and AWD Escorts RS's. Yes Escorts. They have some that would hand Audi S4 it's ***.

Even though GM makes more cars, I think finanically, Toyota is worth more. At least before Mercedes took over.

Now the domestic name is really getting blurred becuase most auto makers outsource many of their parts. Ie.. probably 90% of all fuel injection systems use a version of the Bosch design which is of course German.

But until I see a nice OLD domestic, then I gonna be a Japan/European person. I see old Maximas, Camrys, Mercedes, but I almost NEVER see decent old examples of Ford, GM, etc.... ie.. ford has sold billions of tarus etc.. but almost all the ones I see are ratted out.

Zprime

hehehe...
some time...some one mentioned to me...that different car companies manufactured their parts and comps based on different quality control....some kind of statistical distribution function combined with tolarance factor....
ahh...interesting isn't it?....that manufacturer X will use a PVC valve that might consider not good enough by manufacturer Y

or even a camshaft...a clutch a transmission gear..ugh...I could go on....

and they require their engineer to design the vehicle components to last a C number of year....

well...etc etc etc...
now who knows which company live by the highest standard only?...well...sometime you still get those product that is outside of the 3 sigma bounds....oopsie....

^_^

Black VQ

So Renault bought Nissan, big deal. Renault is French, so Nissans will still be imports. Nissan is just using Renault's money now, they aren't sharing parts(yet). But if we see a Nissan Le Car, we'll know somehthin's up.

Stillnmax

british cars suck even more than US domestics. Sure some look cool and are lux but when they break down, which is often your shiet out of luck. Ever owned a Rover, A friends family car is always in the shop, and it can never seem to get fixed. Go figure

Maxima95GLE

Stillnmax, I think that you have a point, but be careful w/ blanket statements about the British cars. I have to agree w/ you about the reliability of the older Rovers (they used to use engine parts from the GM parts bin--take that with with you want. . .), but have you ever heard of the MacLaren F1?