Here's what Mark said in response to my question about the bias issue... sounds logical to me.

Also, I'm thinking that if there was a big issue with this kind of mod/upgrade, all the guys with the brembo/wilwood/ap racing/etc upgrades would have issues too...

i don't recall stillen mentioning anything about adjusting the front/rear bias when i talked to them about their kit either...


"No, you would not need a proportioning valve because:

1) I assume the car has ABS and you can't use a prop valve with ABS
2) the ABS will take over and prevent your brakes from locking up
3) if it doesn't have ABS, the prop valve still wouldn't help because it only decreases the amount of fluid going to the rear brakes, it will not increase it
4) if you wanted to improve the rear brakes bite, then the rear rotors and pads I'm offering would help as these rear pads would have more bite than stock pads would

I hope this helps.

And to those wondering about our 2 piston caliper vs. larger 4 piston calipers: a 4 piston caliper is a lot more than is needed for virtually any car. 4 pistons are made more for heavy trucks/suvs, but some people want them on their cars and that's why they're available (we offer 4 piston kits). But the 2 piston kit is perfect for cars - not too much, not too little. And it looks good IMHO."

 

Have Mark read this, then tell me your thoughts....
Stoptech

 

And read this...scroll down to the Impact of Big Brakes section...
Another stoptech article

 

Interesting reading for sure... I looked at some of the other brake upgrade kits and it looks like all of them have a 13" rotor option... I'd imagine that with all these different manufacturers building similar kits, that they must be ok to use to upgrade with...

Mark, any more info regarding what's mentioned in these 2 articles..? Isn't the OEM rotor size 11"? If I'm going to the 13" rotor, can this have a negative impact on braking performance?

http://www.precisionbrakescompany.com/maxima.html
http://www.stillen.com/sportscars_de...d=31948&page=1
http://www.cattman.com/prod_brakes.html

 

Taking into account the Stoptech article, the size of the rotor is compensated for by adjusting the caliper piston sizes to achieve as close to OEM balance as possible. What I find very interesting is that of all the aftermarket kits out there, Stoptech seems to be the only one that describes maintaining brake balance as a key objective of any brake upgrade. I'd like to hear some other opinions regarding this subject...it makes me think that going with OEM sized slotted rotors, stainless lines, and higher performance (and CoF) pads is likely the better route if I can't come close to the OEM bias.

 

I passed the Stoptech articles on to my tech department and here's their reply:

"Brake bias will change just by changing the type of pads that you use. When you install a front "Big Brake kit" on the front of your vehicle it will definitely change your brake bias. You are not only reducing the amount of heat generated but you are also increasing the amount of clamping force when you use a caliper with pistons that are larger than factory.
If you install a big brake kit on the front of your vehicle and keep the rear stock your vehicle will have a tendency to nose dive. For example, on a stock 325 series BMW the factory brake bias is about 60/40. Once you add a front Big Brake kit to that car you will be changing the bias to about 70/30. You can change that bias back towards the factory bias by either replacing the factory rear pads with a set of hi-performance pads or by installing a rear big brake kit. By just installing a set of hi-performance pads in the rear it will improve the bias but will not bring it back to the factory bias.
The ABS system is not affected by any big brake upgrades hydraulically. The ABS system works off of speed sensors. At each wheel there is a speed sensor, when that wheel locks up it sends a signal to the ABS unit. The ABS unit then reduces the amount of pressure then increases the pressure then reduces the pressure, etc. The ABS unit will keep on cycling like this until the wheels do not lock up any more when the full amount of pressure is applied.
To sum it up, the factory bias is affected by just changing the front pads to a high performance pad and leaving the rear stock. Yes there is such a thing as too much brake in the rear. By simply changing your front pads and not installing anything on the rear, whether it be a full rear kit or just hi-performance pads, you are changing the factory bias."

I'd also like to add that installing bigger wheels can change the brake bias due to rolling mass. Or even installing stock size tires but tires that are sticker than the stock tires. Virtually anything you do is going to cause a change in the factory settings, but that's the very nature of aftermarket.

Putting on a set of our rear slotted/plated rotors with performance pads will help move the factory bias back to its original setting, but probably not to the exact amount.

sbarnes4ever: you might not like the look of our front rotors with the rear Brembo ones. I believe theirs are cross drilled and gold plated; ours are slotted (we don't drill any rotors as it can cause stress cracks and damage the rotor and shorten its life span) and our plating is more a silver color. Our rear slotted/plated rotors with performance pads would be about $225, not $350.

 

Thanks Mark,

I'm still in...

 

C'mon Guys!! This is a great deal!!

Mark, if srbarnes4ever tries them and they don't work out for him, is he able to return them? Or is your comment about returning them only if they've not been used?

Since I've gotten 18" wheels and hi-po pads, I'm sure my bias is already off.

srbarnes4ever, i think that if there was a problem with upgrading to big brakes, that there would be members here on the org that would have said something... i haven't seen anyone say that upgrading their brake system has caused a problem, here or on any other (inferior) maxima site... and it looks like there are a lot of upgraded systems out there...

 

If the kit doesn't fit for some reason, it can be returned (there is a restocking fee). If it's used, then no returns.

 

I'm in for a 13" kit for 95-99 (A168-4).

Sorry I didn't clarify before...

I'll want them powder coated though; hope that's ok for the deal.

 

Cool! Then that's 2 for sure, and 1 possible - srbarnes4ever?

 

Restocking fee? How much? 10%-50%? This info may be somewhat important... Also does "used" mean: attempted fit on car?

 

I'm guessing that you would have to try to fit them on the car and if they don't fit, then you can return them. But if you put them on and Drive on them, well then... I'm thinking you're SOL... lol (hah! I made a funny )

There's a 12" kit for the 2K-2K2 and a 12" kit for the 95-99...

If you get the right one for your car, you shouldn't have to return them...

Most companies charge from 10-20% re-stocking.. 50% deserves a

 

Restocking fee is 20%. If you try to bolt them on and they don't fit for some reason, then you can return them, assuming you didn't modify any of the parts. But if you do install them and drive the car with them on and then decide you don't like them, there is no return.

Looks like we've got 2 definants and 1 one the fence. Just need 2 more to get the discount. I promise you guys won't be disappointed with these. We've been doing this for 25 years - we're not some guy who buys a bunch of parts from different places and then hacks them up to make a "kit." Just look at all the magazine articles one our website (and these aren't even half of them).

 

Bump!!

 

Still bumpin' along....

 

The rear Short Stop kit (that's what we call our rotor/pad upgrade kits) is going to be $315, not the $225 I was originally told by my purchasing department. Sorry for the change. It is part number A2390000 (I don't think it's on our website yet). It will be stock size slotted/plated rotors to match the front rotors in our kits and performance pads.

 

Mark,

It occured to me that your kit probably doesn't have 2 piece light weight rotors, right??

How much of a weight savings over the stock setup is your kit? It would be really nice to loose some un-sprung weight...

 

Our 12" and 13" rotors are 1 piece vented rotors. Our aluminum calipers in these kits weigh 6 pounds each. Some single piston cast iron ones we have laying around are about 10 pounds each, though I'm not sure exactly what your stock calipers weigh, but I imagine they'd be about the same.

Our 12" rotors are 1" thick and our 13" rotor is 1.125" thick. The stock rotor on 1995-99 cars is .787" thick and 2000-02 is .944" thick, so we'll be giving you a beefier rotor that will last longer.

 

Thanks for the fast reply...

It looks like there will be negligible weight savings, maybe even a weight increase with the thicker rotors. Do you offer any kits (4 piston, etc.) that offer a light weight 2 piece design?? I would be willing to pay the extra; considering the potential handling benefit.

Also, I just saw your products on the JEG's site!!

 

We do have a 13" rotor/4 piston kit, but it is still a 1 piece rotor. Only our 14" rotors are 2 piece with an aluminum adapter hat, but we only make 14" kits for trucks and Corvettes. Our lighter caliper coupled with our bigger rotor probably negate each other, so your unsprung weight should be about equal to stock.

Yes, JEGs is one of our dealers.

 

Last call...

I'll be taking the orders tomorrow from HNDA ETR, sbarnes4ever and tI30t. I'll give them the 10% discount even though we didn't get the 5 orders (I'm a reasonable guy!).

HNDA ETR, I know you want the calipers powder coated black.

sbarnes4ever and tI30t, do you want yours powder coated? If so, what color?

 

Sorry gang...I've been out of the loop and not logged on for a few days! I've missed quite a bit of discussion here....Mark, can you confirm for me (shipping price included) the cost with shipping of the 12" kit by itself as well as a quote for the front and rear kits together to ZIP code 40517. We'll go from there but at least the front set I'm in on....I'd definitely take the rear set at the $225 price...but I understand business is business so I need to think about that one.

 

Price to ship to 40517:

A168-6 without powdercoating = $725.00 - 10% = $652.50 + $17.71 UPS ground (may differ a dollar or two, but not much) = $670.21

A168-6 with $100 powdercoating = $825.00 - 10% = $742.50 + $17.71 UPS ground = $760.21

A2390000 rear slotted/plated rotors = $315.00 - 10% = $283.50 + $14.00 UPS ground (again could vary slightly) = $297.50

There'd be no tax since you're not in New York State. Let me know if you've got any other questions.

 

One last clarification gang...what type of brake pads are used front and rear? I don't want a race only type high CoF pad that will burn through rotors in months and not be worth a crap when cold. Also will the rear set come with stainless lines or will I need to get them separately? The price is lovely, the front deal I'm in on for sure...I need to make my mind up on the rears...probably will depend on the brake pad and stainless line question. If I need to get lines separately then I'll likely go the Brembo route and deal with the color delta (zinc vs. stainless w/plating).

 

srbarnes4ever,

so what did you end up doing?

 

There would not be rear braided stainless lines. You could get those direct from Techna-Fit Their site lists a 4 wheel line kit for $115; I'm not sure how much the rear lines only would be (since our front kit includes them already).

The pads are performance street pads and have good cold bite. They will not eat your rotors more than normal.

 

I just spoke with Mark about 45 minutes ago and ordered both the 12" front kit and the rear slotted kit. He was able to take care of all the issues I had except for the rear stainless line kit and I'll get that on the next group deal. I'm happy as hell and can't wait til next week when my brakes arrive...Of course pics will be posted for all eyes to see.

 

I got the the 13" front and the rears also...

When are those rear SS Brake Lines gonna be GD'd? Now I've got to get my UD Pulley, Lightweight Flywheel, ACT Clutch AND the Brake Kit installed...

can you hear that....?

That's the sound of my credit cards screaming....

 

I feel your pain...I snuck this cost onto my credit card too...plus I'm planning for a wedding next summer so I HAVE to pay this off in short order! But my brakes were in terrible shape..I need to replace the fluid as well during this swap....I would have purchased the 13" rotors but I wasn't certain that they'd fit under my rims so I stuck with the 12 inchers.....

 

Are you still interested in the kit? I took some orders last week. Let me know and I can give you a call.

 

Congrats!

 

FWIW, I got the Wilwood 12.2" kit on 18" Tantrums. Stopping power is incredible, and unless you want a matching rear kit for the track or looks, it's totally unnecessary. Stopping power is great with them and I couldn't ask for more.

Now, SSBC makes excellent stuff as well! I got a 13" BBK from them on my other car, it stops on a dime (better than the Wilwoods even, but that is to be expected). I'd highly recommend their products, and again, you really don't need the rear BBK unless you want it for looks or you go out to the track. Just make sure you use anti-squeal compound, cuz I didn't and my brake pads started rattling at slow speeds after a few weeks. All is fine now, though...

Also, I love the swirl design of the SSBCs! It looks great!

 

mrb23,

Glad to hear our brakes are working great for you!

 

any install pics?