I would like some input from fellow Maxima owners in regards to the possible effects of lowering springs on our 3rd Gens. A local Nissan mechanic has told me that my Eibach / Tokico combo has caused both of my lower control arms to bend - resulting in their inability to restore my car's alignment back to recommended specifications. His claim is that the load of my car has shifted and has caused stress to both lower control arms. Specifically, the dealer claims that the warping of my control arms is effecting the caster. Both toe and camber can be adjusted properly. If you believe this to be known problem with lowering springs, please let me know. Also, if you know a lot about suspensions, please let me know if this would be an improbable situation.

To be more specific and to answer any initial questions that you may have, I'll have to describe the recent history of my car.

About 2 weeks ago, I replaced both lower ball joints. I chose to do this without removing any axles and with the car's front steering knuckles still in place. I used the method that involved the "pickle fork" tool and "a big hammer". This method did a number on the old ball joints - practically destroying them. However, I did not recall missing a swing and bashing anything else on my car. Anyway, the old ball joints were fairly worn, so I figured that an alignment was appropriate.

I took my car into a local Nissan dealer for a 4-wheel alignment. The initial printout of the car's suspension geometry indicated that the caster of both the driver and passenger side was way off spec. The printout describes "way off" as being greater than 0.2 degrees from normal. The mechanic claims that the car's caster cannot be restored to specifications due to the fact that both my lower control arms are bent. I cannot see any visible "bending" of the control arms, but I acknowledge that a 0.2 degree bend will not be visible to me. I have also observed that my 8 year old bushings aren't as firm as they could be, but the dealer insists that new bushings will not help.

To resolve this issue, the dealer wants me to have them "tighten" (yes, that is the term that he used) my control arms. I asked if "tightening" involved replacement bushings or new ball joints, but he reaffirmed that the bushings were not an issue. He also said that my new ball joints are fine. He did not offer any static price estimate, but he did say that it would be in the neighborhood of $200. I guess I could go out and replace both lower control arms myself, but I want to make sure that a genuine need exists before I invest any money into new parts.

I don't know much about metals and their resilience to flex, but it appears that both the thickness and "non-planar shape" of the control arm makes it fairly difficult to alter its shape. I also assume that the combination of the bushings and ball joint would absorb a lot of the "flex" experienced in a situation involving a shock to my suspension. However, I could see how a shift of load onto the control arms could bend them over time.

Also important; my car has never been in any collision, and it is driven with a decent amount of care along well-paved suburban roads. The last time that I touched my suspension (prior to the ball joints) was the installation of my Eibach / Tokico setup 2 years ago. Last, about 11 months ago, I had the same dealer align my car without any problems.

I know there's a lot about my car that I don't know - so I hope that I can improve my knowledge with the aid of your insights. I appreciate your time in reading this. I apologize for such a long post, but I wanted to be as thorough as I could so that you could fully understand my situation.

 

Loss of wheel gap

A lot of guys have the eibachs/tokicos on their 3rd gens and don't have such a problem. If anyone has had this problem maybe they will speak up, but I don't remember reading about it before.

 

Lowering springs bending control arms? Theres practically no way.

If by the slight chance that your control arms really are bent, they got bent some other way; or your mechanic/dealer is trying to take you for a ride.

 

at this point i would have a second opinion done...i.e another dealer or a mechanic that knows a little something

 

I finally had some time to just take my Max out on the highway. I don't fell anything odd (no vibrations or pulling in one direction) and I don't hear any wheel vibrations above anything that I'm already used to. The wheel also straightens out and centers properly after turns as well.

I'd like to have someone else look at it - but it is unfortunate that I have yet to find any shop around town that I can trust. Also, no place will check alignment without charging the full alignment fee. I guess I'll just wait and see if other Maxima owners out there have any experiences that support the claims of my local Nissan dealer.

Thanks for ideas though; I'm thinking more and more that the mechanic is probably being a bit underhanded.

 

check around on the alignment fee thing...i know Just Tires and one other shop around me do free alignment checks

 

I don't know where you are located, but in Maryland, there are several places that will check an alignment for free.
For example:
Mr. Tire
Merchant's Tire & Auto Center

I find it hard to believe that no one would do that. It seems like people there have to find an excuse to get you to spend money. (dealerships included...of course)

 

A week after getting my suspension techniques springs and tokico shocks put in, I got a 4 wheel alignment done. (Note: ST springs have a larger drop than Eibachs). Some of the specs were off, BUT, NTB was able to get ALL of them into spec without a camber kit or anything. So, I think the dealer is BSing you. Take it to a private mechanic and save some money.

 

After installing my Tokico/Eibach on my 93, I finally had the car aligned one year later. THe inside of the tires were worn all to hell. Anyway, the shop (a privately owned American Care Care) aligned it to spec without an issue.

 

The funny thing that I see is that your caster is off. Usually when you lower your car, you camber would be off. If you raise a truck for instance, is seems the caster would be off. Caster means the top of your tires are too far out, camber is when the bottom of your tire is to far out. lacking a better way to describe it. Also, I didnt think the camber AND caster could be off, at the same time. I could be mistaking, but camber and caster are two different components, I thought only one could be the problem. Again, I could be mistaking!

 

Good try, but incorrect.
From Hayne's Manual 93-99 Maxima
"Toe-in is the turning in of the wheels."
"Camber is the tilting of the wheels from vertical when viewed from one end of the vehicle."
"Caster is the tilting of the front steering axis from the vertical."

Click here for a diagram

 

Ok, But can they both be off at the same time?

 

Yes, they can.

When your caster is off, it is usually a sign of some pretty serious abuse. I believe that a horribly bad strut mount can throw it out of spec, but usually when your caster is off it is the result of a major front-end collision or slamming a really serious pothole. You said you drive on smoothly paved roads always, though, so I don't uderstand.
One thing that I DO understand is that there is no way your Eibachs messed with your caster. Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it. It's not off enough to affect the driving and your tire wear shouldn't be affected either so why mess with it???

 

I have just done a 4 wheel alignment on my 89 max however I have upgrade my rims and tires to 215/50/17 with sumitumo HTR tires which are z-rated!! Great ride now. But what should your tires look like alignment wise in the front and rear? in the front should the tires be straight up and down vertically or should there be a slight inward turn from the top of the tire? Same question for the rear tires? Let me know

 

Have you lowered your car?? When facing your car at the front (or rear) and your tires seem to tip inward at the top, that is called negative camber. The opposite would be called positive camber. In normal daily driving, positive camber is never a good thing. Negative camber, in the right degree, can make for better cornering traction with the correct sidewall height/stiffness, etc. It unfortunately also makes for faster wear on the inner edge of the tire. Generally, I have found that negative camber in the rear wheels is pretty common with these Maximas when you lower them. If it's bearly visable to the eye, you're fine. The best way to tell is the spec sheet the alignment machine prints out (assuming it was a computerized alignment, being 2002 and all!!). Ask your alignment specialist what he believes is best for optimal tire wear. Remember, ZR tires are fun but wear sometimes 3X as fast as your normal passenger car tire. This means that you will want to rotate your tires more frequently. Hope that helps.

 

thanks!!! yea i do have the computerized specs sheet and they brought my alignment to the manufactures specs both front and rear. it just seems that the negative camber is just a little odd looking!!! I check the pressure and wear on the tires like religiously like everyday!!! However, the wear is fine no uneven wear on any of the tires!!! thanks for the insight always helps!!!