I am going to give the short version of what is going on and maybe someone can give me some advice.
I bought a used 2000 SE Max from Middletown Nissan (in Middletown NY). in March of 2002. In April of 2002 I began experiencing problems with the ignition coils and the car mis-firing (CEL going on). Over the course of the next year and a half I have had to bring the car back for the same problem 9 times (this is covered under warranty but I have been charged twice). During that time they have replaced individual coils, then they replaced the entire coil pack, the mass air flow sensor, the wiring harness, etc.
About two months ago I bring the car in and by now I am ****ed and I know the service manager (Scott "I'm a fat *******" Botwinas) by name. He tells me that they need the car for a few days and that they will give me a loaner. As a loaner they give me a Kia Rio. For those of you not privleged enough to have experienced the pleasure of cruising in a Kia Rio you are truly missing out. A few times I caught a glimpse of myself in the rearview mirror driving down the road and I almost had to pull over and kick my own ***! (after complaining the upgraded me to a Kia Optima, not as bad but not much better).
They hold on to my car for over a week and in that time they changed the plugs. They claimed that the car ran fine and I should not have the problem again. So I go to pick up the car and return the Kia and I look in my car and it iscovered with cigarette ashes and something was spilled on the front seat (leather). I complain to one of the "I don't know twins" (the two guys that work at the service counter) and he comes out and looks in the car. He offers to have the car cleaned right then but I did not have time to wait. (Mind you I don't smoke and I never eat in the car). I call the service manager on the follwoing Monday and he tells me how sorry he is and that if I bring it back in he will detail it. I tell him I never want to bring the car there again and the conversation ends. A week later the car misfires, I bring it to Autozone where they pull the codes and its the ignition coil again (surprise!). So I call the service manager and he starts saying "well I don't know what you are going to do because you said you are never going to bring the car back here" in a really condescending tone.
I then decide to take things to the sales manager. He says this is the first he has heard of this and that he will get it solved or they will put me in a new car. He tells me that he needs the car for a few days and that he will have an "A" maechanic work on it. They gave me another 2000 Max to drive for the mean time. Over a week later they call me and tell me they contacted Nissan, who is aware of the problem, and that it was something in the wiring harness and it is fixed.
I pick up the car and they tell me I should never have this problem again. The very next day the car misfires, I pull the codes and its the ignition coils. Not only that but in the back seat of the car are parts tpo the bottom of the console that he never replaced.
So I go back in to speak to Mr. Promises (Jim Jordan, Sales Manager) and I show him the parts in my back seat. He gives me some BS story about how the mechanics wife went into labor and he had to run out and he must have forgotten to put back the parts.
So then he tells me to sit with a sales guy to "work some numbers"...
This guy expects me to pay invoice on a new car!!!! I put down six thousand dollars on a car that has driven correctly since day one, I have made 18 payments through their financing and this is how they intend to make amends? Not in my book.
I understand this is long and I may have rambled but can anyone make any suggestions?
I would like to trade the car in on something else but I am not gonna get slammed in the process. Also, I can't trade it in somewhere else with the CEL constantly on.
What do I do?
Thanks in advance.

PS. I love my Max! I just wish it drive correctly.

 

F'ing dealers man. . .
I suggest you call the regional nissan office or whatever it's called. . . the main one that they have for the whole country and you tell them the story and complain about this dealership. . . THEY will contact you GUARANTEED. . . I had a problem with my dealer giving me problems about my warranty and the regional office took care of me. . .
Whatever they have to do, have them fix the car. . . no need to lose money again to get another one. . . they will never give you anything close to what you paid for it.

 

Something about a lemon law....

 

Lemon law is for new vehicles...

 

Maybe he can get un-f**cked

http://cartalk.cars.com/Got-A-Car/Le...york-used.html

 

Guys,
Thanks for the replies...
This is the only part I don't understand:
It was purchased, leased, or transferred after the expiration of the New Car Lemon Law's term of protection, being the earlier of the first 18,000 miles or two years from date of delivery to the original owner;

I bought the car and it already had 29K miles on it. Does this mean I am screwed or what?

Thanks again!

And if anyone ever has to deal with Middletown Nissan in Middletown NY I feel sorry for ya.

 

man...its called FOX news and expose the dealership for their incompetence and lack of service. That'll hurt more than anything else. Just contact them and the BBB (Better business Bureau). I believe the lemon law applies as long as the dealer warranties the car...which they did. They obviously knew something was wrong with the car when they sold it to you...I had a similar issue...with my tranny on the 97 when I bought it. The dealer ended up replacing the entire tranny free of charge...only thing I payed for was a new clutch which I wanted put in.

Good luck

 

Nupe,
That is my intention, as is developing a website detailing exactly how they are screwing me and hanging signs advertising the link all over
Middletown.
- possibly taking out a small ad in the local paper
- sending flyers to all of the service and sales managers neighbors letting them know exactly what stand up guys their neighbors are
- decorating my car as a rolling billboard and parking it outside the dealership

Let me know if you can come up with anything else.

As for them knowing that this was a problem, they tell me that 5th gen max's are prone to ignition coil problems but that once all the coils are replaced, which was done, the problem no longer exists (yeah right!).
I purchased the warranty through the dealership per their suggestion.
I am going to the Attorney Generals Complaint office tomorrow in Manhattan. Hopefully I get somewhere with this.
Thanks for the suggestions.
Craig

 

How did you find the regional office or whatever its called?

 

The ATTY G will assist you, but what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to get your $$$ back and the payments you made too? That's what it sounded like earlier. If so, that outcome would be unjust enrichment to your favor. I think you are getting carried away in setting up a website and plastering bad press all over town. imho you should stick to getting the vehicle to run properly, even though the dealer in question does sound incompetent.

When you take out an installment loan, part of the early payments are towards interest, not the principle. Take a 4% 36-mo loan, $35 could be interest an $265 towards principle. On a house, it could realistically be $2200/mo. interest and only $500 towards principle since most mortgages start out at 30-yr.

Life is a *****, but it's beneficial not to get oneself all worked up. A bunch of us put in an Andersen bay window for a buddy, only to find a small crack in one of the windows. That means argon gas = gone. The home center store was perfectly willing to replace the hardware, but our buddy went ballistic on the labor we put in to do the job. He really can't understand that that's the way the cookie crumbles and made a real a** out of himself. You can't expect the home center to reimburse us for the time spent installing, but he did and does. We wont be helping him again in the future.

So keep it real and good luck.

 

The lemon law is a joke. Ive never had a problem with my nissan dealer when i had my max, but lemme tell ya, Chrysler is a biatch to deal with. Buying a new 03 wrangler and having it in the shop 5 times within 5k miles for the rear diffy going bad, and having them shrug their shoulders and say they have no idea. Then when i try the MA lemon law they determine its not. Funny part of the lemon is you can have it arbitrated before the state, but if you win they can appeal then you have to get a lawyer and go through 6-12 months of court. They just wear you down....till you give up. Its time to go back to a nissan for me. DONT BUY JEEP

 

Are you still covered by the warranty? And more importantly, is it a Nissan warranty or some 3rd-party outfit? If you still have Nissan coverage, I would ditch your current moron dealership and find another Nissan dealer somewhere. An Infiniti dealer might work on your car, depends on their local policies, and I would bet those guys are better trained. But that's just a guess. At least Infiniti should be more customer-service oriented (no ash on your seats, etc.)

I also concur that contacting Nissan's regional representative would be helpful. Keep copies of all your warranty work and set up an appointment with him or her and show them the pages and pages of mistakes their dealership is making. At a minimum, the dealership's service dept. should catch some heat for wasting so many warranty repair hours with no solution. I would also say something like "I'm a life-long Nissan owner, always brand-loyal, but this is rediculous... I need some help, otherwise I will blah blah blah... sell, never buy your crap again, etc."

As a reference, my mom bought a used Cadillac that stalled out on her nine times over the course of one year. But since she bought it used, the lemon law didn't apply to her. But her 6/70 bumper to bumper covered the repeated trips. She had coil packs, MAF, TPS, etc replaced with no solution. Finally, we took it to another Caddy dealer and they found the problem immediately (again, some shorted wire bundle.) So something as simple as switching service depts might make all the difference for you. Coincidentally, Cadillac reimbursed her for all rental car coverage as part of the extended warranty, so she always rented the most expensive Ford product available, usually a Town Car or some Jaguar. But I digress.

Anyway, that's my $.02 several times over. Good luck!

Ciao,
TOM

 

That's a stupid excuse the service manager gives you about the guy had to go out since his wife in labor. I coudln't care less about it, I don't know why they don't give that service. I would tell him straight up that this is a place of business, I'm not interested in excuses, that you need to do your job. Bottom line!

 

Frank,
Thanks for your opinion. I am not trying to get back every cent I put into the car. All I am askking is to be treated fairly and to do the right thing. The dealership has had ample opportunity to fix the car and they can't. Now it is time to swallow the loss and make things right IMO.
I put down 6K and made 17 payments at $339. If they sat me down and said "Craig we are truly sorry for everything you have had to go through. In an attempt to make things better we are prepared to offer you a car at $6000 below invoice (the amount that I put down for this car)" then I would say they are moving in the right direction. By offering me a car at invoice what are they doing?They won't be making any money but they won't be losing any either. And now how do I get this car serviced? I can't bring it back to the same service center.
I have also thought about trading the car in on something else (Murano at another dealer) but how can I with in good faith knowing that there is a serious problem witht he car (not to mention the CEL on all the time)?
If I sounded like I wanted Nissan to deliver a brand new car at my doorstep it is only because I am fed up.
Am I getting carried away with the website, newspaper, local news? Perhaps. But if it causes them the slightest bit of inconvenience then I am happy. This could have been handled long ago and with relative ease. I am not difficult I just want to be treated fairly.
Craig

 

I bought the warranty that Nissan offered. It is some company that I have never heard of (can't remember the name right now) but it was through Nissan when I bought the car.
I have thought about going to another dealer but I have already spent time and $ going through this one and now I want results. Is that being stubborn? Yeah, but so what?!?!?!?
I will never use this dealership again and if I can stop other people from using it I will.
Craig

 

I don't care if that fat **** gave birth in my back seat! As long as they clean it up and put all the parts back together.
What really bothered me about this is that I am fairly certain that Jiom Jordan was lying about the guys wife giving birth but more importantly he told me that he would have the car detailed before he gave it back to me. I asked him when they were cleaning the car (which I do a better job of by the way) did they noticed pieces of the console lying in the back seat. He kind of stuttered and said that the detail guys didn't know that they weren't supposed to be there so they just ignore it. Its bull**** like that that gets me ****ed.
Ya know?
Craig

 

Craig,

Man, I feel your pain...persistance is the key. Most if not all dealers don't want bad publicity. You just want your car fixed, or a newer car with them giving you a break for all your troubles and $$ invested. I say try to contact the owner of the dealership, and see what happens, and inform him of the possible bad publicity that could occur from this episode...I'm sure he'll try to help

 

Nupe,
I think you summed it up perfectly!
At this point I don't thoink they can fix the car and I don't want to go through the hassle again. If I were the dealer I would definitely offer a break to a customer that went through what I had to. I don't think I am asking for too much. Do you?
Craig

 

you're in bad luck, just don't give up. You really can't get reimbursed for them not detailing your car, but this can serve as one of your arguments to get out of your situation. At this point, you have only a few solutions: have the car fixed at this dealership, have the car fixed at another dealership, have this dealership replace your car with another one of similar value, or trade your car in at some other dealership. You need to talk to the dealership owner and tell him how badly you were f***ed up, and you suggest on how he can make it up to you. You are not going to loose anything if your car goes in for service to them one more time. It'd be the best if you could wait for the car while it is diagnosed or services, be on their asses all the time. Meet the technician in person, stand next to your car, let them know you are there. Don't let them take weeks to fix it. Really, Lemon Law and all the BBB stuff are not going to help you much, your car was bought used and it is driveable. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

Y2K,
I am not interested in getting anything for them not detailing the car. Maybe I didn't explain that correctly. What I am ****ed about is I have had to bring the car back 8 times in a year and a half for the same problem. I should have a ****ing time card by now! So when the sales manager assures me that this is the last time and that he will personally see to it that the car will be fixed and detailed before it is returned to me and then I find parts in my back seat I get ****ed! If the car was fixed and I found the parts back there I wouldn't be writing this right now, that just added fuel to the fire.
I don't know how a company can treat customers like this and still be in business all these years. This is the worst customer service experience I have ever had.
Is the car driveable? Yes but it stutters (misfiring).
Can I trade it in at another dealer? Won't they mention the fact that the CEL light is on?
I won't even be able to get the car inspected! (I know I can turn the light off but that's not the point).
Craig

 

Craig, did I miss something out, is there a reason you can't take your car in for service to another dealership? How many miles on your car now? Do you have any mods on it?

 

No, I could take it to another dealer but that would be out of my way and I hear their service department sux (Newburgh Nissan).
Don't take this the wrong way because my wrath is not directed at you but...should I have to go to another dealer? WTF? Should one be able to fix a problem that another can't after 8 try's????
I work in telecom and there are plenty of things I can't figure out and sometimes its the simplest thing, right in front of my face. Happens to everyone. But give me 8 tries and I am bound to get it right and if I can't I admit I can't.
I now have 53K on the car, the only mod I have is a CAI.

 

What happened to you can happen to any of us. But look, if there is no dealership that you want to take your car to, then what are you hoping for? Do you want them to refund you all the money you paid for the car, paid emotional damages and suffering? Get real here bro, right now you have some mileage on your car and it won't qualify for a buy-back under Lemon Law. What you can qualify, however, is a free repair under the wtty. Either this or trade your car in, and prepare to get a big hit on depreciation. Consult BBB, Office of Atty General, your lawyer, and Nissan Motor of America with your problem.

 

******* that is ridiculous.

just make a copy of all the invoices or whatever you got everytime you took the car in and contact nissan about it... or just do whatever everyone else is suggesting... damn that's disgusting.

 

Wish you luck man! Keep on their asses!

 

Whew! There is an intelligent person over 12 on this forum!

In this case, the buyer is humanly entitled to get that POS running up to snuff. Has he been inconvenienced? YES. But he's getting granular about babies and parts on the back seat. Should he be entitled to a brand-new car for 6k under invoice? Like you said, get real bro'. Maybe I should have a bigger heart, but then again, I went to PENN Law. And I believe that not only the little guy and big guy should not stay the couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds. Take the &(&)(*&^()^()*)_ POS to a dealer that will fix it and use your time constructively. Any lawyer that tells you there is a case is a shyster.

 

I understand that this could happen to any of us. I think forums like the Org allow us to share these types of experiences and gain advice and learn from others.
Do I expect them to refund me the money I paid for the car (I won't address the emotional/suffering thing because that was just unnecessary sarcasm)? No. All I want is for the car to be fixed or for them to take the car back and either give me something comparable or to offer me a major discount on a new car.
When I bought this car I expected it to last (just as all of my other Nissans did). I did not expect that less than a month after purchasing the car I would be back at the dealer to get it fixed. I spent a lot of money on this car (for me it was a lot of money) and I expected it to run right. I fully intend to contact the BBB, Office of AG and Nissan because if nobody ever complains about these types of things then they will never be addressed.
I never meant to come across like I deserve a new car for free, I just want Nissan to accept responsiblility for a defective product.
Craig

 

Frank,
I am generally pretty laid back and I let people slide on a lot of bull****. IF this were the first/second time I brought the car in to fix a recurring problem and the technician mistakenly left a cosmetic part in the back seat during repair I wouldn't give a crap. My problem with this is its the 8th time I have been back for the same problem, the car was supposed to be detailed and they promised that the car had been fixed by their "A technician".
I don't post much here because I find that althought many of the members here are insightful and considerate there are a few that always barge in and become insulting (like you have - see comment about intelligent board members over the age of 12).
That being said, this is an internet forum and you are more then entitled to your opinion.
Thanks,
Craig

 

ok now we're getting somewhere, now we know what you want out of this. You have more chances of getting your car fixed than anything else. Noone is obliged to to buy your car back, or exchange it for a comparable car, you need to take this into account.

Don't get me wrong, I am on your side, but just don't want you to set your expectations up to high. You have three conditions: you bought your car USED, it was operable for a long period of time (you put on 30K mi since purchase), and each time you got it in from service, you accepted the vehicle by signing the paperwork.

You may, however, get a discount on your next car from the same dealer, or an equal replacement, only by a goodwill of the MiddleTown Nissan. Now, who would in the world would consciously want to give you their profits just to compensate you for having to bring the car 8 times? Get real again. Unless your vehicle was a program car, a Nissan Certified, Nissan Motor has no more obligation to you other than to repair your car.

Trust me, they dont give a **** that you worked hard for your car and you paid maybe slightly more for it at MiddleTown than somewhere else. Filing a complaint with AG, BBB, and Nissan will only make you more upset, because you will see more of how none gives a crap about a little guy like you. I urge you to try to give the dealership another chance to repair your car.

 

I think he can't get his car replaced because he put on 30K mi on it since he bought it. Do you think if his car was Nissan Certified program car, that would have increased Nissan's liability and made the car qualify under the Lemon Law? You see, all program cars are subject to a vigorous inspection program. If they missed something out, one could make an argument about that...on the other hand, the car did not misfire and there was no CEL light @ time of the purchase. Go figure. He needs to have the car fixed before it hits 60K mi and trade that sucker in ASAP.

 

I am not sure if it was a Nissan Cerified car. All I know is I bought it from this dealer and I bought their warranty at their suggestion.
Did I drive the car? Yes. But it hasn't run correctly since day two and I have been dealing with this since then. The car runs but it stutters and the check engine light stays on. The point is that it does not run the way it should and Middletown Nissan should be held accountable, if anything they should accept the responsibility.
I read the link that someone posted above regarding used lemon laws and I think I satify all of the criteria. I have written an email to Nissan and I will give them a few days to respond.
I really wish I didn't have to go through this.
Craig

 

What is the Nissan Certified Program car? How do I know if this is one?
The car didn't misfire on my test drive and the CEL light wasn't on....we both know that can be reset and the light won't come on again until the car misfires again.
I am looking at trading the car in on a SUV. I love the Murano but I would sooner cut my ***** off then buy another car from these guys.
Craig

 

Craig,
Dude, dont worry, i completely understood your stance on the situation from the beginning. How some people came to the conclusion that you wanted a free car and red carpet leading up to the door is beyond me.

You have every right to expect them to treat you right!

"Give them another chance to fix the car" Whatever!!!

I may have thought that after the 2nd or 3rd time, but not the 8TH!! Mr Nice guy would have ended after the 3rd or 4th try for me, and being upset doesnt mean you dont have to be reasonable just make sure they know youve had it with their BS!

Screw that crap! I reported my dealer to the BBB, Attorney Gen, as well as their company headquarters and finally got results. Dont give up until you hear that all that can be done has been done from all parties.

In the end, keep your intergrity and know that you did all you could to right the situtation, then never shop there again.

 

I think you are trying to mislead this man. What is he going to get from reporting the dealer to BBB, AG, Nissan, etc? They can't make the dealership to replace the car, reimburse the value, or give a deep discount on a new car. This is not like you are telling your older brother that some punks diss you and he comes and beats them up.

 

Im "trying to mislead" him??

Im doing no such thing! Why are you defending the dealer for poor customer service?

I did the very same thing and got results. The dealer had an opportunity to make things right, and still, 8 visits later they have not.

Its time to go over their head! I did the same thing, not because i wanted to, but i had no other choice. I wasnt gonna sit around and get screwed by incompetence and neither should he.

As i said, if nothing can get done he'll at least know he put his trust in the BBB, Attny Gen, and/or Nissan Headquarters and didnt leave it up to that dealership to make the final decision.

I can see how some dealerships get away with screwing people over if you dont think its worth it to complain about something like this.

 

What outcome exactly are you suggesting? I am not defending the dealer AT ALL, I have been **** myself on a number of occasions and hate dealing with sales and service guys.

What kind of result did you get- please share with us. If getting the car fixed is the result, then it can be accomplished without headache of writing letters to AG's office. Well, OK, AG may fine the dealer, but they won't close down the operations, but the problem won't be solved, he will still be driving his misfiring Maxima! Gotta do what's right, what will put things together.

You know, I would not have brought the car back to the same dealer after 2 times...

 

You said it there! I guess Craig either was too trustin, or too busy to drive further to the other dealer.

Anyway, my problem was a denial of warranty service due to modifications.

The asses wouldnt listen to reason and so i went over their heads to get it done.

This i know, is a bit different in that they are just plain ole incompetent and cant fix the problem one the first or second try.

Im willing to bet though that Nissan Headquarters sends him to another dealer and compensates him "somehow" for all the problems he had.

At least that is the "right" thing to do for your customer.

Ill tell you, car dealerships are probably one of the worst when it comes to making a customer happy when something goes wrongs. They are just too quick to finally fix the problem aftert not getting it right time and time again, then all they do is say "sorry, but its fixed now"

When i worked in the hotel industry, i would friggin bend over backwards to make my guests happy. As a manager, i kid you not, i would give free crap left and right when i knew there was a problem.

Free food, free transportation, even free room&board for a night!

I think many companies need to take some tips from the hotel industry!

 

you are right, they need to make it good on him somehow, but hell, what are they going to do, give him free oil changes? Well, let Craig tell us on the results he get.