What is the consensus between these two? Why would anyone pick one above the other? Are the clearances for the ACL between the crank and the bearings offered within the guidelines off the production line, or does it need modification? I see people have different opinions on these all the time. I need more input from you guys that have used either or both to make a more solidified decision.

The motor is a VQ35DE being built with 11:1 compression and getting the works. Should I upgrade these studs and bolts to the ARP (non-L19) or even HR components? Are the original ones enough to run this NA setup? I want to upgrade where I can for the piece of mind, but it's still a semi budget build. Does anyone know the tensile strength of the HR's? I only assume they are greater then the DE's, and are they a direct fit?

-Paramy

 

if youre only running 11:1 i wouldnt worry about it. most guys on the 350z boards dont run aftermarket bearings or L19 studs unless theyre running upwards of 18lbs or so of boost. Plus, if its NA and its only a CR bump of 0.7 thats not nearly enough to require stronger studs. stock studs would likely be fine, or the lower level head stud replacement from ARP

I would worry more with the rods and rod bolts, balancing, and valvetrain to make sure you can rev high for an NA build

 

Why 11.0:1? Seems like a lot of work for not a lot of gain.

 

That's just the pistons I'm using, of course I'm not going to know the final CR until everything is together. I'm hoping to yield a little higher after matting everything together. Maybe in the neighborhood of 11.3:1. I was trying to find something close to 12.0:1 but not exceed it, and there's not much out there without going with custom setups. I noticed that JE cut an 11.7:1 for a 350z guy, but that's more then I want to spend on pistons. It's suppose to be a budget build, so I'm trying to not super-cede my intentions.

I do have 1 more question. The Wiseco pistons that I have are 0.20 overbore (96mm), and the headgasket I have is 96mm bore with .06mm thickness Cosworth HG. My concern is that when ordering the pistons, I was advised to go .5mm bigger in the HG. However I see some guys on the 350z forum that are running the overbore pistons with HR HG's. What's the bore of the HR HG, and is it ok to run the exact same bore as the piston, or should I move up in headgasket by .5mm? I talked to Matt (SR) and he said if those guys aren't having any issues, I should be fine. I'd like to be fine with what I have, but I'd like to be safe as well.

If this damn machine shop would get back to me, I should have my block and headwork started immediately.

 

That's what I expected. As I figured, but then you look at the 350z boards and all those builds these guys are dropping some major loot on just NA setups. Is it to really be safe, or is it just internet bragging rights is my question.

I have alot of focus going into the balancing and valvetrain, and I'll be reving plenty high for what I'm looking to accomplish.

 

expected rev limit? GL with build

 

Upwards of 7500 - 8000rpms. Yes, I will have the supporting mods. Thanks for the well wishes, I'm gonna need them.

 

Sounds good! Just curious.. What are your supporting mods? I plan on tackling something similar expct on a 3.0

 

Here's my list of stuff that I have so far.

Wiseco 11.0:1 CR Pistons (.020 over stock)
Eagle Rods w/ARP Rod Bolts
Brian Crower 264/264 Cams
VQ35HR Valvesprings and Retainers
5 Angle Valvejob
Ported and Polished Heads
Fully Blueprint and Balance
Balance as Rotating Assembly to 10k RPMS
OEM Main/Thrust Bearings
Cosworth Headgaskets
UTEC
Extended Rev Limiter to 8k RPM's
Lightweight Crank Pulley (Standard Size)
SPEC Stage II Clutch
Fidanza Lightweight Flywheel (Balanced Independently)
NGK 1 Step Colder Plugs
3" MAF Housing
Ported Upper Intake Manifold
Port matched Upper and Lower Intake Manifold
NWP Manifold Spacers
Cattman Gen 3 Headers
Cattman Fastcat
Cattman 3" Catback Exhaust (waiting)
Nismo Thermostat
Koyo Radiator
Samco Hoses
VQ35DE Revup Oil Pump
6th Gen Maxima 6-speed Transmission
4.133 Final Drive Gear Ratio

 

quick question when u say 6th gen tranny are u actually going to get a actually maxima tranny or just pull one from a specV? because if u are buying a low mileage tranny just look for a specVs unit especially if u are already 6spd. Swap the Clutch plate/bell housings and u can save urself over $500, the trannies between the 6th gen and specVs are essentially exactly the same except for the bell housing.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, I've looked at that too. What is forcing me to complete this build sooner then expected is because last week I was stranded about an hour and a half away from home when my tranny completely blew up. It's been waiting to happen, I think I bent the bellhousing from launching so many times on fresh VHT at the track. At anyrate, I found an 05 HSLD with 17k on it for a pretty good price. I didn't want to mess with cracking it open, and if my tranny is shot I couldn't use the bellhousing anyway, so I went with this one with low miles and intact. If it didn't happen all of a sudden, I would have considered going that route. At least now I have a good excuse to just complete my build project.

 

I would at least go with the ACL rod bearings. The main bearings in the 3.5 are the same used in the 3.0 DE/DE-K so those are fine. They have proven to be solid. The rod bearings is where nissan went soft and wear hard with sustained high revs. Coated bearings (calico or otherwise) will be a waste of money for this build IMO...I'd get the regular ACL race series bearings. I recommend HR head bolts over ARP's simply for the preload consistency all the way around. +1 for HR head gaskets as well.


I have a 350Z upper/lower IM available if you ever want to mess with that combo.

 

Two other things. I noticed that you got the flywheel balanced on its own but the clutch assembly might still be a little imbalanced. If possible it'd be good to have the two balanced as an assembly. Just something to keep in mind. Also, historically I have not been of fan of colder thermostat's as I believe it is a major bandaid for insufficiencies in the cooling system/coolant itself. Every engine has a sweet spot for where it wears the least and makes the most power and a lot of times colder isn't necessarily better. I would feel a helluva lot better about running a 350Z t-stat in my vehicle than the nismo unit which would open too soon for 99% of the driving you'd be doing. If this car was going to be turbocharged and see road course duty that'd be another story. Even then I'd still recommend upgrading the radiator and switching to a waterless coolant over throwing such a cold t-stat into the mix.

 

Once again, thank you Mike! Super help here, straight to the point of my question. I will go ahead and order the ACL rod bearings, and the HR headbolts.

Do you think since I have the Cosworth HG already, it will be fine for this application or should I let those go and order the HR HG's?

Matt is going to help me tune, and we're going to try a few different setups regarding the IM. He's got a 350z one as well that he will play with. I'm sure he doesn't want to let that go, so if that yields what I'm looking for I will be in touch with you for yours.

 

Understood there! I have a 350z t-stat as well, so using either/or is within reach. That makes good sense, as I've never looked at it that way. I was always under the assumption that colder was better. I will install the Koyo and leave the Nismo out as well as use the waterless coolant you suggest. It's rated to open at 154 degrees. That is much lower compared to the stock that we have. I think the 350z is rated to open at 169 degrees, right?

 

!

Well here are a couple things for you to mull over but in the end it's up to you.. :P

The cosworth gaskets might seal better than the stock DE gaskets but so do the HR's! The cosworth gaskets don't specifically target the exhaust side of the heads though...you could probably sell them on my350z, buy the HR gaskets and save enough money to take your lady out somewhere nice to eat.

Sounds good. I've got revup and standard lower collectors so just LMK. Look forward to this project coming together!

 

Available in STD, .025, .25 size - ACL Rod Race Bearings

What the world do I choose here?

 

That's a legit enough explanation for me to go ahead and use the HR gaskets.

 

Standard size. Those other ones are oversize in case you need to grind the crank journals down a notch to repair damage.

 

Check! On the Thrust bearing I have the option of adding this to my order as well. I should just stick with OEM, huh?

 

you want OEM size bearings for all the journals unless you have damage on them.

do you think youre going to make power with an SSIM'd manifold as high as 7500-8000rpm? Even with those cams, which are kinda small for that rev limit, I would be surprised if you peak after 7000. for those revs, you might want to seriously consider the kinetix IM, PM sparkmax03 for his feelings on it top end. We all know it has mixed feelings for stock revlimit and compared to an SSIM, but I bet it would help you a lot for that 7500-8000 range. Unless youre planning to really go crazy on that SSIM, well beyond what anyone has done before. Either way, keep us updated, im excited to see where this goes

 

Put pathfinder heads on it. That's what I'd do if I were building an N/A 3.5 - no question.

edit: just remembered you already have head work done on your existing heads. bummer.

 

Pathfinder heads flow better? What are the details? Any modifications besides normal headwork? What would the benefits be? 20 Questions, I know.

Still trying to get these heads to the shop at the moment, if those guys ever get back to me.

 

Unmodified pathfinder heads flow worse on both the intake and exhaust sides. The advantage would be raising the compression in a more effective way for n/a purposes (reducing combustion chamber volume) and the ability to use the 00VI. But in the context of the 5.5 gen ECU I don't know how simple it would be to make everything work well together.

 

I didn't consider the sensor/ecu ramifications, I always tend to think in the context of my own car which has no emissions equipment that I need to worry about and is running 3.0 sensors.

With regard to the benefits, nismology's post sums up my thoughts.

Here is a flowbench.

 

OP, i went with 96mm wiseco's but still used 95.5mm head gasket (HR) and no issue, this is what most 96mm guys do from what I researched when I did my build. Also, go with HR head bolts along with the gasket, I know your not going to be boosting this motor, but thats not the only benefit from HR head gasket, the cooling passages are SOO much better and provide a balanced flow through all cylinder locations vs. the DE gasket which only flows through one cylinder. So thats what I recommend, HR headbolts, HR head gasket, ACL bearings (I got mine for about $130 for all bearings on ebay), and DE main bolts.

For bearings, measuring your crank is required in order to determine what size bearings you need, check the FSM and compare your cranks measurements, the crank has a number on it which will let u know which combinatino of sizes it is supposed to be (we have like 3 different journal sizes so not all are same), I got myself a good Micrometer do do this. Or have a shop measure it all and tell u the specs. that will tell you if you need standard bearings or something lil thicker, acl offers two (not sure if they came out wit a 3rd size)

 

Sorry for my noobness regarding CFM and understanding the flowchart. It's to my understanding that the better the flow/higher the CFM, the better it is/more power I would gain. My goal was to introduce the most CFM's out of the heads on both the intake and exhaust by porting. And by glancing at the flowchart it seems as if the VQ35 provides that at least on the intake side. I just need a better understanding of how all this ties together before I go spending my money on porting and valve jobs that really won't benefit me.

 

im actually quite impressed the VQ30 exhaust flow i wasnt expecting it to be close, let alone being able to best the VQ35 in peak exhaust flow.

 

From what you see below, what would be a necessity and what could I live without?

CNC ported intake and exhaust ports, CNC chamber, diamond honed valve guides, precision SERDI valvejob and skim the deck surface.

 

Remember dala that the standard ACL rod bearings are a one-size-fits-all size that is supposed to be compatible with all 3 grades of crank pins. The other 2 sizes are if the crank needs to be serviced and ground down. I agree that he should still measure the clearance to make sure its according to FSM specifications, but the STD size will no doubt be the one for the stock unmodified crank.

 

Could probably do without the valve guide honing since the guide isn't an oil bearing surface. What kind of valve job are they going to do and how much testing backs it? Standard 3-angle cuts on both I/E are not necessarily any better than stock. And what exactly are they going to do to the chamber?

 

The valve guide was one of them that I wasn't sure of. I believe the stock valves already come with a 3-angle radius, but they were going to do a 4-5 angle on the intake side and a 2-3 angle on the exhaust side. I don't have any flowcharts of any individual machined part, but they did have flowchart with all of the above done. I wasn't sure what the CNC chamber part was.

These were the guys that 1cockyz used on the 350z board but, he got it for way less then what I was quoted. He didn't get all of it done, no porting or valve guide honing. He just did the Serdi valve job, and the skimming of the deck, along with assembly.

I just found a great local shop yesterday that I think I will be using. I have an appointment with him next week to discuss and drop my block and heads off. He's doing the machine work and assembly of both for less then these M2 guys are going to charge for just the heads.

I almost jumped the gun and shipped my heads off to M2 up in Jersey. Glad I didn't now.