For those of you that have Traction Control and have or are contemplating nitrous, BEWARE. Here is the function description from the Factory Service Manual.

TCS Function
Drive wheel slippage is detected by the 4-wheel rotating speed
signal. When the wheel slip becomes excessive, the TCS operates,
causing the SLIP indicator lamp to flash. And, at the same time,
fuel-cut and throttle opening signals are sent to the ECM and a
signal requiring a change in the shift schedule is sent to the TCM.

This can be disastrous for any nitrous system but especially guys running dry kits where the extra fuel required is being fed by the injectors. This can blow a motor very quickly. Even a wet kit where the fuel and nitrous are injected into the intake is affected because it also cuts throttle opening on the 2k2+ drive-by-wire systems. If you have a TPS switch controlling the nitrous it would shut off but if you have a manual switch ie under the gas pedal etc then you are at risk.

I have mine now permanently off because I don't really don't want traction control at any time, but it can be connected to an on off switch as well. I have described with I did in the thread below.

Of course you can always switch it off using the normal dash switch everytime you start the car because it defaults to ON. However, all you have to do is forget once and spray and you could be looking at major damage. This is especially a problem at the track where you are continually starting and stopping the engine.

https://maxima.org/forums/5th-generation-maxima-2000-2003/293357-questions-about-dde-s.html

 

Yes I wondered about this aswell. I have TCS and i plan on getting a wet kit very soon. Thanks for the heads up jime!

 

more innovation by Jim

 

That's exactly why it's a good idea to purchase a progresive nitrous controller so you have a better chance of keeping traction? Power applied is better then power lost through wheel spin! Just a bone I thought I'd toss you guy's?

 

Uh no, how about you stop posting this crap. That progressive controller is alot of money to invest in, and its not gonna help keep traction. Jime is 100% correct about how TCS would make the engine blow with nitrous.

 

progressive controller has NOTHING to do with what he's talking about.

 

He's saying to use a progressive controller to try and avoid losing traction instead of disabling the TCS. This could work and potentially not activate the TCS if applied properly, however it failed even just once and TCS went on and you hit fuel cut spraying nitrous, guess what.

If you use a properly sized tire to avoid traction problems, disable the TCS and spray your maximum shot at once in the very lowest gear (preferably 1st) you will have the fastest 60ft and 1/4 mile times. With nitrous your better to spray in a lower gear early than a higher gear later on. This is what makes a progressive controller for a small shot like 150hp and less a waste of money (more or less, it is a nice toy) because the motor can take a 150hp blast all at once in a low gear with no problems and once your into a higher gear you would be spraying the full amount by then anyway. Taking a 150hp blast in 4th where the gear is longer is much harder on the engine. If your ever going to blow up the car it's going to be in one of your higher if not the highest gear you have as they are the longest and highest (lowest numerically) and cause the most load.

Progressive controllers are generally applied in cars running a really huge shot. They spray a 200hp shot with the trans break at the line, then the controller ramps it up to a 500hp shot as the car is moving. The trans brake will not hold a 500hp shot. They use computers to do it as the cars need to be very consistent and a 6 second window is not long enough to switch it yourself, especially when your trying to keep a 1800hp car on the straight and narrow.

 

Yea, Progressive controllers are not needed for something like a 35 or 50 shot. Waste of money.

 

yeah I hear you on that, but I'm just making the point that it is not realistic to Jim's application. I, and probably Jim, would never take that chance on the fuel cut. Those bishes are $$$(vq35de)

 

Hey jime, any idea how i can permanently disable TCS on my 4th gen???

 

My fix didn't work so its back to the drawing board. By jumping the switch it did turn it off but as soon as I put it in gear it came back on.

So for now I have pulled the fuse on the ABS which deactivates it until I can find a better fix. That should work for yours too.

 

For those of you that can't seem to figure out how to cure this problem, you might just concider using a seperate fuel supply for your nitrous. ie. a second fuel pump dedicated to you nitrous system. Then your worries would be eliminated & you wouldn't have to alter factory safety devices. Just another bone I thought could help you guy's out?

 

that's an idea maximus, but I don't think that will work either because the fuel cut also keeps the ecu in closed-loop due to the TCS regulating the throttle opening. I'm not sure about this, but that's how it seems.

 

Really? Never thought of doing that.

Jime already uses a seperate fuel system for his nitrous setup running 114 octane race gas, welcome to last week.

Even if the nitrous is running on a seperate fuel system and the car fuel cuts, it will still leave the car in a serious lean condition (ie holed pistons). When the car fuel cuts it does not shut off the pump but close the pulse width on the injectors. So you could run the fuel system from the stock pump and still end up with the exact same results as running a seperate fuel system entirelly. The cause, reaction and end result will be exactly the same regardless of where the fuel comes from because the pump is not whats being effected, the injectors are. Seperate fuel system will do absolutly nothing to help a situation like this.

Pulling the ABS fuse will eliminate the TCS (as it operates on the basis of wheel spin same as ABS is, however uses fuel cut to slow down the engine not the brakes) but will leave you with a light on your dash. Annoying but a fix none the less.

 

Um everyone that has gone 12 seconds in the 1/4 in their max please stand up.

The PNC is a very helpful tool and is needed for many applications which helps tremendously for traction issues. To say that controler are a waste of money is a completely foolish statment and an ignorant way of thinking.

PNC's are not expensive and are definately useful for shots under 150.

Think of this, your'e running 100 shot and you get challenged on the street on your way home from work. Well you activate the window switch with the arming switch and wait for the light to go green. You roll through the intersection at a slow speed waiting for the guy to take the hit. He goes, you lay down the hammer, and with a little chirp of the tires you proceed to hand him his ***. [god i love the look on their faces when our babies lay the smack down] All the while you had forgotten to disarm the TCS switch in all the anticipation of the comings, but the PNC has just saved your dumb ***(for racing on the streets) from blowing the motor because it ramped up the shot accordingly.

 

Thank you TAMPAMAX.......

(For the other guy's)
And as far as a seperate fuel supply dedicated to your nitrous not helping when the TCS is activated that is bull$hit. Even when the TCS is activated it will still create as optimal of an Air/Fuel ratio as it can through the injectors. Even while dispersing less fuel to help the vehicle regain traction. It doesn't just go woooo send all this air in the cylinder's without any fuel so all my sensors will now be reading super high cylinder tempatures. But let's say that the TCS is activated & your Wet system's fuel supply is tee'd somewhere between the fuel filter & the fuel rail. Now your looking at some catistrophic damage as your fuel begins to reduce to the amount of nitrous being sprayed into the engine stay's relative to bottle pressure. Keep in mind that the oxygen contained in nitrous is something like 36% actual oxygen & the rest is other gases. But the oxygen you breathe is only like 23% oxygen. So If it was my car I would much rather have the fuel injectors cause the lean condition rather then my nitrous sytem???

 

Whoa, you lost me on that bro.

The TCS will retard the timeing and reduce the fuel flow. The problem with spraying a decent size shot when this happens is different but somewhat the same.
With a wet set up you will be dumping the proper mix of n2o and fuel through the system, but with the computer cutting back on timeing and the reduction in fuel will lead to something close to a puddleing effect. Here's how, with the reduction in the delivery of fuel and retarded timing the rpm's stop rising and even fall back. At the same time you are dumping in an enormous amout of fuel and n20 mix that would normally be ok as long as the rpm's kept rising, hence burning of the fuel. Remember, n2o doesn't burn it helps the fuel to burn more quickly. Now, think about the 1-2 seconds it takes the car to recover from the TCS stepping in. All the while one has produced a build up of accessive fuel for the rpm range the car is in. Then you add the nitrous to the mix and all of a sudden the engine has to deal with this enormous amount of access fuel to burn off. The mix at this point is way to volitale and will have the capability to blow something in the engine. Its a fight between the expanding chemical reaction of fuel burn, with the help of added oxygen, against an unfortified block. If you have ever seen a 5.0 mustang run a wet shot and get the intake blown off because of puddling, then that is the same idea except inside the engine.
As for a dry shot this will create an extreme lean condition instintanilously. Because the injectors compensate for the needed addtion of fuel, one see's the huge problem once the TCS takes over by cutting the fuel delivery. Even the fuel pressure riser can't try to even it out. So now you have an engine with the fuel cut off, a little retarded timeing, and waaaaaaaaay to much n20 going into the engine. By the time the fuel gets dumped back into the engine you would have melted a few pistons, and/or pistin rings, to the cylinder walls. If you some how didn't do that then you can bet all hell will break loose when the gas is reintroduced to the combustion chamber.

So the wet system has a little more leway by adding the extra fuel, yet this is by no means going to save you. It all comes down to to much shiat is getting dumped into the engine at to low an rpm. I believe its known as a 'nitrous backfire'.


The dry system won't even give you the chance for that. It will almost instinatiously go to a very lean condition and that's all she wrote.



My whole deal is that the PNC will help prevent the massive loss of traction by 'progressively' ramping up the amount of n2o in relation to the rpm's. The PNC is not the same as a Delayed Nitrous Controller. Make sure you guys read up on the differences. Because the DNC will not help one bit in a situation like this.

Jime, good looking out. Please feel free to add or correct anything mentioned here.

 

TAMPAMAX

Check out the new thread I just posted, I understand that TCS will modify the timing, fuel excetra. I was stating my opinion that I would rather have less fuel being delivery through my injectors then through my nitrous nozzle. Atleast if the fuel delivery remains constant at the nozzle the lean condition caused by the TCS may give the engine more time to survive. Especially since the computer processes information in milliseconds.

 

Ok, i just couldn't follow along on the last post.

 

Ok everyone besides Tampa need to be quiet for a second. Has anyone truely experienced the TCS on a maxima kick in? I have, and with nitrous the engine would go boom. It cuts the fuel and throttle body opening quite a bit, in the snow with TCS on, I was flooring it and it would stay under 2000rpm. thats a HUGE decrease. I can just say, with nitrous, even a 35 shot, there would be engine damage for sure. Either the TCS is off, or no nitrous. Anyone that would take the risk is a fuking idiot.

Maximus, as for you, I dont even understand your posts.

 

...

 

TCS, is a good system if you drive your car in winter condition, like I do I mean lot's of snow, ice etc. for example in winter if the TCS is on and I accelerate hard the car is like jerking it's a very strange fealing but once you understand how it work you then realise how it can save your life. Another good side is you dont loose control of the car because your going too fast in icey condition, believe me loosing traction on ice at 70+km /hr can be very scary specially when there a 18 wheelers coming the opposite way. I only use TCS in winter and it probably save me from some accident when I was driving on black ice condition on a highway at night, the system can react way much faster than we can, it's like your gardian angel.

I totally agree that using Nitrous with the TCS on can be really disastrous, you defenitely want the TCS off with nitrous, there is no chance to take.

Cheers

AA

 

sorry to bring up from the graveyard, but i am spraying and i disconnected the ABS fuse and i still get that huge bog down as it shifts into second gear. Anyone find a way around this yet?i did not even know i had traction control because no light comes on in the dash.

 

Why disconnect ABS, it is only used for braking. Put the fuse back in. I dont think you have traction control on a 96.