Well I'm officially about to have a nervous breakdown. I'm in shock right now.

Well after installing new coils yesterday and feeling the car drive nice and fast, I decided to see if the new coils would help with my problems when I try to spray nitrous. I'm using the JWT ECU and nitrous daughterboard to control to nitrous, which is a 65 dry shot.
After driving around and warming up the car and bottle, I decide to hit the spray. Worst mistake of my life.
As soon as it gets to spraying, I hear a POP, and see a puff of smoke coming from the engine bay. FUKC!!!! I turn off the nitrous and bottle heater, and coast back to school. As I'm about to pull into the lot, my car shuts off, but luckily I was able to start it again. As I pull into my parking space I notice a rough idle, and within a minute of pulling in the car shuts off again. I didn't see any oil dripping from the engine however.
This is the worst thing that could happen to me right now. I was gonna auto-x this weekend, but that ain't happening. I'm so far away from any Maxima people that would be able to help me throw in a used engine for any reasonable price that I guess I'm gonna have to have some fool install my engine (my college is in the middle of nowhere).
I can only assume my engine is totally dead since it won't even run for more than a minute without shutting off. No chance of driving it home either.

I'm so frazzled right now I don't really know what to think, except that I'm already in debt to my parents $3,000, I have no way of getting a new engine in, and I have no way of getting home.

I just had a compression check done a week ago or so and everything was fine.

Excuse me, I'm going to go cry in the corner. Seriously. I'm sooooooo fukked right now.
Time to give JWT a nice call.

 

Ummm, damn! You really need to do some investigating so this won't happen to other folks.

And to those who happen to stumble across this thread and get all shook up about using nitrous.....this is a rare occurance.(first time I've heard of it) I've been on the bottle for over 2 years, problem free.

 

Dude Sorry to hear about that, i would be devastated. So what happens if you let the car sit for a couple hours and then startt it.. Keeep us updated

 

Oh, I'm beyond devastated. I have negative money right now too, and fixing this ain't gonna help with that. I went out to start it again a few minutes ago, and it only ran for 15 seconds before shutting off again. I heard a loud pop right after it shut off too.

 

So far it only sounds like it backfired through the TB and killed the MAF. Mechanical damage usually doesn't have the symptoms of running for a minute. Usually that's seconds or not at all. I assumed you've inspected the MAF and the intake boot.

 

Ok, wow.
No, I wasn't able to do any real internal checking of the intake/MAF because I don't have any real tools at college, and it was getting dark, and I had no light.
I will certainly check out those things as soon as I can get some tools. Your explanation certainly does make sense, so I hope you're right. What would I be checking for in the intake boot?
On a side note, I think I want to make sure my injectors are all working normally. How could I test that?
Thanks for the information.



Edit- What are some things that may cause a backfire? That's something I hope the JWT ECU would help prevent, but I'm sure it's not that simple. I had just filled up with 16 gallons of BP 93oct. I had no more than 1000 PSI in the bottle, and the car had been driving around for 30 minutes already to warm everything up. I sprayed in 2nd from about 40 mph, maybe 45. This was my first attempt to spray with the new used Mitsubishi coils I put in, but honestly they felt great compared to the old ones. So that would lead me to believe that they were functioning fine.
Does any of that ^^ info matter?

 

if the boot is blown out or exploded/ripped. Could use a injector test light to test your injectors as well. The maf it could have killed the hot wire so look to see if that is there.

check for any codes as well.

 

Lean much??? I personally hate Dry kits for the reason of not getting enough fuel..... you'd know if you hurt your internals.... Like everyone said, its probably a problem w/in the intake system. Injectors are working if car is running. Do you have a bigger fuel pump?

 

that sucks man. Pull that thing apart and figure out what went wrong. It sounds like your MAF sensor is shutting off though... Thats wierd.

 

Damn, sorry to hear that. You haven't had much luck w/ the nitrous have you?

 

No, haven't had too much luck with it. I finally found an Autozone with a Haynes manual, comp checker and vac gauge. As soon as I get some free time and some copper plugs I'm tearing into this. Also gonna throw on the stock intake assembly.
The MAF isn't throwing any codes so I'm hoping it's ok. The temp sensor however is bad and I need to get a new one.

 

I forgot to post this earlier and, it looks like you've already checked, does your ECU have any codes stored in it? Mine throws the KS code and I hope to check that before I spray.

 

Yeah, the ECU has 8 codes in it that are related to different emission systems on the Maxima and I30. Those aren't going away any time soon. Yeah, if your KS is bad, you must replace it before you try to spray. I had mine replaced about a year ago luckily...

 

hey man, hows things going?

 

You need to calm down and go about this logically. You most likely didn't blow your engine if its still driveable. Check all your vacuum line connections, all your fuel line connections. Check your MAF. Anything you disconnected while installing the nitrous, check it, it might have come loose. Check your plugs, check your compression, check everything. Don't just assume the worst. As the saying goes, you gotta pay to play. Good luck.

 

I've checked all vac lines, and have done a vac test, which came back basically unreadable, so something isn't right. I have good FP. The MAF isn't throwing any codes. I'm trying to do a compression test as we speak, but the directions are less than clear.
I pulled the plugs and it's a sad sight. Here's a rundown of how the plugs are looking...
Front Left- The curved part on the top has been burnt heavily, part has broken off, but the white part at the base is still pretty white.
Front center- Pretty good
Front right- Pretty good
Rear left- Tip is completely broken/burned off, and the white part at the base has been melted down half way.
Rear center- Tip is missing very end, still have white part intact.
Rear right- Just as bad as the rear left. Tip is gone and white base part has been melted down half way.

More news to come when I figure out what to do for this compression test.

 

Before you can do an accurate compression test you need to get the motor warmed up. First go get some new plugs. From the sound of it you detonated heavily, but the VQ is a strong beast, so you might be okay still. You either didn't get enough fuel, or you were getting too much nitrous. The compression test is not hard. Once you get the motor up to operating temp, pull the fuel pump fuse and wait for the car to die. Leaving the fuse out, pull all the plugs. Now go one by one, install the compression tester, crank the motor over 3-6 times, or until the number on the tester stops rising. Release the pressure and repeat each one. I do this to ensure proper testing. Once you have all the numbers recorded, come back here and post.

 

I put in new NGK copper plugs gapped to about .044. The car felt even stronger, but still runs real ruch and doesn't idle. I'll post more tomorrow.

 

I told you to get different plugs...Sounds like detonation, and lean. You need the Walbro pump, and the other things that I told you for the nitrous. I think JWT is fukcing clueless about these nitrous systems, and I thought the best way to set the thing up was to make a real nitrous system in the car, and let the JWT control it after the fact. I didn't like the way they said to keep stock everything to set this system up. I don't think it was compensating fuel enough for your car. You have way too many bolt-ons to run this much HP without fuel, spark, and a WOT switch as a master controller to spray. I had a feeling when I started to install the stuff you bought that it might have bad results. I think JWT is 100% responsible for giving you real bad info on how to set the car up. I think as many of these computers as they say they reprogram, that you have had way too many problems. One other thing to look for while you're in there is oil in the intake tube. Let me know what you find.

 

You could be very right. It never sprayed right to begin with. I was amazed at how three plugs basically melted....
I followed the advice of a few people and sprayed WD-40 around the intake and intake manifold gaskets to see if there might be a leak or blown seal. I found no such leak.
If only I could prove who is at fault for this, or even just what happened exactly. Oh well, at least I'm learning the hard way again...I should be able to get the comp test done either tomorrow or Monday. With the new plugs the car pulls harder, but doesn't idle better....I'm surprised the car ran as well as it did with 2 or 3 plugs destroyed...

 

I bet the car shook pretty bad with a couple of bad plugs...At least it is running. From there, you can figure it out. The only time that I saw a backfire out of the manifold like you described was when my solenoid was leaking N2O into the intake, and when I started the car with nitrous in the intake, it popped real loud, and white smoke came out from under the hood. I wonder if you never rebuilt the solenoid right. Just some other things to check out, I guess.

 

Hate to tell you this, but I'd be very surprised if you don't find at least one of the cylinders with low compression, which probably means burnt piston or rings.

Hope I'm wrong for your sake, but I've "been there, done that, got the T-Shirt".

 

What was your bottle and fuel pressure? JWT recommends that the bottle never go over 950 and that fuel must be at a minimum of 43 psi. What size jet did you go with? I really hope your engine is okay - that would really suck.

 

Don't count on JWT taking any blame for this. Besides that, whatever they say, you still can't leave out common sense. Colder plugs and a new fuel pump are a must IMHO. Post up when you get more figured out. Good luck.

 

I don't think I was over 1000 PSI when this happened, or really any time before that. I have good FP at idle, so I think I'm good. I'm supposed to be able to use the stock fuel pump with the 65 shot, along with stock heat range NGK platinums. I just put in the coppers yesterday, but they didn't help the idle, but I did get some power back. I'm actually not sure of the jet size because Jason (Tapout) did the install for me. He assured me it's the right jet size.
One thing to keep in mind is that I rebuilt my nitrous solenoid, but wasn't sure if it was all there or not since I lost a small spring. It sprayed all right, but I'm not sure if I can rule it out of the problem. I had a compression test done about a month ago and all cylinders were within like 12% of eachother. I'll be doing a comp test ASAP...just been busy...
I don't anticipate JWT taking any responsibility, especially when I don't even know what really happened yet.

 

Any update? FYI, I finally sprayed with mine. I'm the same setup except I've got a Walbro pump and SARD afpr. I'm using a .040 jet - don't know what shot size that works out to though. So far no problems but it's only been one bottle. With gas prices the way they are I may just start filling up w/ nitrous haha

 

Believe it or not, I still haven't been able to do the comp check....this is finals week and I've been swamped recently. Hopefully I can do it by the end of the week. You don't know what HP size that jet is?
How did you decide to use the Walbro and SARD? JWT said neither are needed for the 65 shot program...but I guess they couldn't hurt.

 

I can certainly relate w/ school and work. I've been very busy too.

I chose the Walbro and SARD because I was originally gonna do the NOS on my own w/o the JWT ECU controlling it and I figured I would want to keep upping the shot and didn't want to be limited by the fuel pump - I also got it all as part of a package at a great price.

As far as the jet size, I had my ECU programmed w/ a rev limit of 7500 and told them to do what they wanted regarding the nitrous. So, on my ECU it states there is a 7500 rev limit and not to use a jet any bigger than .044. I originally used a .036 and thought it was a bit lacking so I went and bought a .040 which hits nicely. I do plan to dyno tune but that's after school and when I get more time and money. I really do wish you the best w/ your car. I've already replaced my engine once and that was before nitrous so I'm very nervous but nothing ventured nothing gained.

 

Thanks for the kind words. Sounds like your car is handling it well, which is great. Do you plan on going to a track any time soon?

 

I'd like to get to the track - just don't know when I'll have time. Keep us posted on your status. Good luck.

 

UPDATE!!!!

Finally did the compression test myself and it looks like one cylinder has lost compression. The front 3 cylinders are all around 220 psi, but the rear are worse off. The rear left was around 200 as was the rear middle, but the worst was the right rear, which was down to 90. I repeated the test to make sure it was accurate, and it was. I guess my initial reaction turned out to be right after all....I didn't have any oil lying around so I wasn't able to test to see if if the rings are bad or if a valve has gone bad. Either way I suppose the easiest thing to do now is find a new engine...

DE-K coming soon

 

OMG, this breaks my heart to see you having such issues. Dude i want you to be able to use this, have some fun, and be happy with your purchase. I can't see why you didn't let me help walk you through the install. I've run more than 20 bottles of 100+ shots, and 3 bottles on a 200 shot though my engine with half the gear i sent you without so much as a hiccup. If you need to, get up with me and i'll try to help you get it set up correctly. BTW, why didn't you use the walbro i sent you? That's like having insurance.
Good news is that you should be able to get a used engine for less than 400 bucks shipped to a local business addy. Removing and replacing an engine on these cars is cake. If you are half way mechanically inclined you can do it in a weekend.

 

Don't worry man, I'm still happy with my purchase Besides the Walbro, I had the install done correctly. I had it all installed by Tapout, who I feel knows his stuff about nitrous and Maximas. At this point I just want to figure out what the hell caused the problem so it doens't happen to the next engine. I found a VQ for $100, but I decided I wanted to go with a DE-K and found one for $700 (and sell the MEVI). Tilley is gonna do the install for me next Saturday. Hopefully we will be able to tear down the engine and see what happened.

One thing that comes to mind is the nitrous solenoid. I had to get a rebuild kit for it since it was leaking. I put in the rebuild kit, but in the process lost some small part from the old solenoid that apparently I didn't need. It sprayed nitrous fine, but it makes me wonder if that tiny part I lost doesn't have something to do with all this. The only other things that I can think may have had something to do with this is an injector that wasn't working 100%.....or maybe the platinum plugs they told me to use (I've since put in NGK coppers). I mean, with the JWT program, I thought I had a larger margin of error, even though I feel my setup and install are perfect.

I'm just at a loss as to how I'm gonna figure out what caused this and make sure it doesn't happen ever again. I guess installing the Walbro is a start. I would like a wideband O2 sensor, but I don't have the funds right now. I also wanted to dyno, but I guess that will have to wait until the new engine is in.


Thanks for the consideration though. I wish I lived closer to you so you could get a look at the setup. I feel like when I get the new engine in I'm going to be scared to spray, since the whole time I had the setup on my car so far I still wasn't able to get a "good" spray from my setup. Whenever I tried to spray through a longer gear like 3rd I would feel something like hesitation, and I knew it wasn't spraying properly. Second gear usually didn't feel as bad.

Anyways...I'm done with this rant....

 

Platinums is what i ran up to about 120 shot. Don't think it was the plugs.
I sent you 2 n2o seleniods and i believe 2 fuel selenoids. The original selenoid that was hooked up to the system was bad? I find that hard to believe since i double checked everything under pressure and shot about 8 lbs of nitrous into the air while checking this system before sending it to you. Everything worked flawlessly. I hooked up the really big selenoid and used it to evacuate the rest of the nitrous bottle before i shipped it. Are you 100% sure the lines and fittings were fastened tightly and correctly, with the right sealent on the threads? <-- Some take the sealent in the bag i sent you and some take the silicon tape. I guess noids can go bad at any time, but i just don't see it happening from the time i last tested it till you got it. Well, that's beside the point. Reason is that if the correct pill was put in the line then there is no way for it to spray to much. Hell, you can put the super big shot noid i sent you and it will only spray as much as the pill size. Having a bad nitrous noid, or n2o cut out, will only make you run rich. That will not cause your problem.
Now that i think about it, if you didn't use more than a 65 shot, then you should be fine with the regular pump. The only place you would run into a problem is if JWT set up the ecu for a system they thought would have more fuel pressure. By doing that they will not compensate enough injector duty cycle to cover the added nitrous. Or they could have made a programming error and got somthing mixed up as to just what it is you were useing as far as injectors and fuel pump goes. Not likely, but could happen. Did you hook up the Techtom i gave you? It will tell you all these things that you need to know. That's why i sent it to ya.
After thinking about what little info is provided i have a tendency to think either you had an injector malfunction, or somehow got to much nitrous into that cylinder. Don't know how the latter would have happened. Last senario is that the rings, or the ring lands, just gave up the ghost. The likelyhood of that happening are slim, but it may be possible. The reason i say chances are slim is that it took over 30Lbs of nitrous runs at 200-220 shots of nitrous to do that to mine. Maybe i had a freak motor???
Did you end up putting in the 370cc injectors? If so did you have the balanced and blue printed before you put them in? If not you have no way of knowing if they are running right.

Don't worry about the new motor it will be fine. Do you still have the extra 30ft of nitrous line a gave you? Its the rolled up black hose. I don't like to use a line that long but for trouble shooting sake use that as your main feed line. Switch over to the nitrous selenoid you didn't "repair" and make sure you us the correct pill size. Place the nozzle 6 inches away from the TB and make double sure its spraying into the TB and not away from it. *****Please make sure ALL the grounds for that system are WELL grounded to the chassis if possible.*****

You've still got my email, so if you're unsure about something hit me up.

 

Well one night a while ago I was out testing my OEM clutch to see how it was gonna hold the nitrous, and I found out it didn't. However, I also found out that the solenoid was probably leaking since after I sprayed, the engine kept revving up and down while in neutral, and when I turned the car and nitrous off nitrous sounded like it was still being sprayed into the intake. The noise stopped when I closed the bottle. I then got a backfire when I started the engine. I posted about it in here when it happened, and the concensus was that the solenoid had gone bad

I'm sure Jason used the proper sealant on the threads. That was also discussed in the thread I just mentioned. I'm gonna find that like for you after I post this.

I wouldn't put it past JWT to make a mistake like that for two reasons:
1. They took so damn long to get the ECU ready that after a while they probably just gave up and sent it to me
2. That's just my luck

Since the DE-K I'm gonna throw in has 290cc injectors instead of the stock (4th gen)240 or 260, hopefully that will eliminate any problems related to the injectors, although I do have good FP at idle. I just hope the ECU can compensate for the larger injectors.

I still have all the parts you sent my lying around my basement. When I put the new engine in maybe I'll re-do parts of the setup and do some trouble shooting.

One thing that caught my attention is that JWT claims the nozzle should be IN the TB, not 4 inches or so away. Are they just being stubborn b!tches, or is there some logic to what they're saying?

Until next time....

EDIT: Here's the thread I was talking about....LINK

 

I doubt JWT just sent it back to you, but if they get backlogged long enough there is a chance that some info got mixed up and not the right re-programming was done. That should be a last resort though. Just document everything when pulling and replacing the engines. Take plenty of pics and get a few professional opinions of what may have cause the failure.
About the nozzle placment. Truthfully i had mine in the front lip of the TB, but i told you 6 inches away for a margin of saftey. On a side note i believe the place i had my nozzle was a contributing factor to my failure. This is only a concern once someone gets over a 150 shot. That's why i had all the extra gear for a direct wet setup. Put that stuff to good use. You got some of the best equipment money can buy, so bring it all to Tilley and let him help you get the proper setup and monitoring devices.


About your injectors. Were you explicitly clear with JWT that you would be useing the "stock" injectors with a "stock" fuel pump? Keep in mind that the ecu you sent them was a program for 100 shot on 370cc injectors with a TT fuel pump and a 7K redline. If for some reason they didn't compensate for the downsize of the injectors then that's the first place i would start looking for my answer.
To be sure, i would call JWT and give them your ECU code(or whatever number/mark they put on it to identify it) so they can look up the program they put into it. Don't tell them what you thought you got. Let them tell you what they programmed in that ECU. If they didn't adjust the program from what it was before, then you will be running lean all the time. That could cause you hestitation and small poping through the gears. All the detonation will destroy your plugs. Look very closely at the ceramics. Does it look speckled with black or gray dots?

To touch on the grounding thing again. Make sure none of the wires that feed out of the ECU or loose in anyway. If you/someone accidently tugged on one just enought to loosen its solder anchor you may have a problem there as well.

Oh, and if you're going to go with the larger injectors with the new engine, then you don't want to put in the walbro until you can get a FPR to control the pressure. If you put in the walbro with the larger injectors your car may hardly run because its getting to much fuel. Tilley will help get you setup i'm sure. If there is anything you or he needs to bounce off me for any reason feel free to do so.

 

So exactly why is it safer to mount it away from the TB? About the grounding, I assume all the correct grounds were made. If it matters, I do have Matt's grounding kit.
Yes, I told JWT I was going to use stock injectors and FP. The plugs I pulled were terrible. Three were pretty much completely destroyed and melted. What kind of FPR did you run?
In your opinion, assuming that my ECU is tuned for stock injectors and stock FP, what should my next step be? Buy a FPR and put the Walbro on, or would that screw with the ECU too much?
And JWT is gonna get a call Monday....

 

Step one is to do a post mortum(sp?) on the old engine, take lots of notes/pictures, and call JWT about what i mentioned earlier.




I wouldn't necessarily argue that it is imfatically safer to creat distance from the TB, but its way to involved to go into on here about the placement of the n2o nozzle. If you want you can pm me your number and i call you to explain. Jime should be very knowledgeable in this area as well...probably more so than me.
A grounding kit shouldn't hurt anything, but that's not what i'm speaking of. You need to make sure that every piece of the system you are useing has complete and uninterupted grounds. I suggested chassis grounding because cars are designed to ground to the chassis. That way you don't get an electrical gremlin that you have to chase down through the electrical system. Just make sure all grounds are secure from the ECU, selenoid, etc. down to a part of your car's chassis. You want to make sure they are fastened down securely with no chance to wiggle loose. You may want to scratch the metal surface bare around you grounding points to be sure of good grounding capabilities. Without looking at your car in person and how the lines and wires run i can't say were to put contacts.



Do what i said about calling JWT just to clarify that their records show that they programed the ECU correctly. Chances are they did, but you need to turn over every stone. We're all human and can make a mistake. You can't accuse them of anything before having all the facts. Just get the info and then see what the teardown produces. An easy way to rule out the ecu is to get the injector from the dead cylinder flow checked. If it is hurt, then you have a good indication that it was the injector. If it checks out, then you have a good indication that points "towards" the ecu.



A FPR can come in handy, but i doubt you need one right this moment. With that Techtom hooked up(very easy to do--just plug into consult port) you will get a better gauge as to how hard your injectors are working. I never ran a FPR on my car other than the stock one. The only reason i mentioned the FPR is if in fact a mistake was made, and the ECU you have is still assuming you have 370cc injectors, then you will definately need to boost your pressure to keep from running lean. Or send the ECU back for another program. However, don't jump the gun....first steps first.



See reply above and talk it over with Tilley.




Good idea. Just remember that you don't want to give them any hint(specifics) as to what you ordered for your ECU reprogram. They need to be able to tell you want they sent you. If they can't do that, then how the hell do they know what they sent out? So be sure to have the ECU handy when you get on the line with John...or whoever their tech is now. Provide them with whatever they need off the ECU to identify it and look up the programming they did to it. ***Don't tell them what you should have gotten, thought you got, wanted to get, etc. If they ask, politely say "that's why i'm call you guys." To get it from the horses mouth as to what program you guys put on it.



GL

 

John, what's your opinion of what happened to my solenoid (bottom of post #35)? And why does JWT say the only correct place to mount the jet is in the TB?

And even if my engine blew up because I had a bad ring or something, I still don't see what could have caused the massive backfire that fried my intake. I get the feeling that something has been wrong with the setup since day one, but since it physically sprayed, I didn't make too much out of it.

 

Sorry bud, but i can't begin to speculate as to what was going on with the system since many things were changed/different than from the way i used it and sent it to you. Plus i'm working with limited knowledge on the turn of events. Just going off what's been posted on here. Don't know about the selenoid, but if you turned off the bottle and it immediately stopped spraying that to me says the selenoid was wide open. If it was in fact the selenoid, keep in mind we don't know that for sure. Keep in mind that a slow leak on a 14ft pressurized line will take some time to evacuate. It will sound like a hissing noise and the leaking area will begin to frost over. Now, the only thing that will keep a selenoid wide open is faulty wiring(don't think it was that because i sent it to you with only one way to hook it up...the correct way), or it was getting the signal to remain open. If that's the case then somewhere either in the ECU, or through a bad ground and poosibly both, it was telling the selenoid to remain open.
********We are all theorizing right now and can't make any definative judgements until you tear into the old motor and get that injector checked. I'm just thinking out load here and the likelyhood that some of these things could happen are very slim. So before we start to get all worked up with ideas lets just get the info from JWT on monday and you call me when you and Tilley are tearing into the motor. Remember, if you hook up the Techtom we can learn a lot about what that computer and the car itself is doing or not doing. Of course you can call me before then if you need to.


About the placement of the nozzle. You will be fine either place you put it. I think their reasoning is that unless you thread into the TB aluminum there is no other place to truely anchor the nozzle. The idea may be to try and make it as idiot proof as possible. That nozzle and line are under high pressure when activated and it needs a good anchor. Everyone has to have a TB, but many people have different intakes. By saying it has to go into the TB it avoids any potential complications of having customers trying to mount the nozzle to a rubber hose only to have it come flying out and spraying nitrous all around the engine bay when the system is armed and flowing. They are simply taking out as many variables as possible to create a more reliable product and reduce their liability risk.