2 pulls? That's insane!

Yeah, I'm using a 10lb bottle. I guess nitrous goes pretty fast when spraying a 150 shot!

How low can you get your nitrous bottle before noticing a difference in performance? 1 lb, 2, 3, 4?

Do you rent a large mother tank to do all your nitrous fills with? Or do you have to visit the local performance shop for that?

 

Think about it - spraying a combined 150-shot ALL THE WAY. Sucks it out quick. By the time I get the 10lb bottle down to 6lbs, I can't make another full-power pass.

I load up the bottles and go to a local shop for refills. At $4 + per lb, I can spend some bucks saying "fill 'em up". At least they're not empty....

I thought about my own filling station, but decided not to put that in my garage. I thought about what would happen if I had a fire. Acetone, race fuel, nitrous bottles, mower gas, methyl alcohol, spray cans of WD-40 and PB Blaster and spray paints - you could see the fireball from orbit!

Nobody ever said it's cheap to race seriously.

 

I hear ya. You are spraying such a large shot, that even with 6lbs left, there probably wouldn't enough to make it all the way down the track.

I found a guy in NC that filles for $3/lb! That isn't too bad! I called around asking every performance shop if they could recommend a good nitrous fill place. After finding a bunch of $4/lb rates and even one $5/lb rate, I stumble across this guy that uses a pump for this nitrous and only charges $3/lb.

I am getting it filled tomorrow again and might be hitting the track very soon to see how it is to launch on the 50 shot with slicks. I'll just be there to goof around and test. I won't be attempting any land speed records just yet.

Do you have a purge grey?

 

Of course..... clink link to see it... I'm in the far lane - the grey Maxima..

http://s48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...t=Dscn1368.flv
.
.

 

I'm glad you said which lane you were in b/c I almost mistook you for the neon. jk

I wish there was some way to purge without anybody knowing it. I'd like to run down the 1/4 mile without the crowd knowing I have nitrous. Most people in the crowd think your car automatically runs 9s if you have nitrous.

 

Congrats aaron cant wait to see what kind of times you can put down. One of these days I'll install my nitrous on one of my cars.

 

Simple enough - just point the purge hose downward, maybe just back of the transmission, so you can purge and no one can see it. I like the plume - if you use it just as you are staging, you can rattle some of the guys out there.

Here's a few time slips, from one day last fall, after I got my Shift_Fast_2 working, and before I re-jetted the second stage for 104+ MPHs....


.

 

Do you lock up your TC while spraying?

I thought about purging downward on the track. It shouldn't hurt anything. People will hear the noise, but hopefully won't know what it is and where it came from.

 

Aaron what do you mean by purge down the track. you mean after taking off on the green? if thats wat u mean, then thats a big no! you dont want to be purging at the same time ur spraying into the bottle, your notn going to be spraying the 100% pressure coming from the bottle in the motor.

BTW, a little offtopic. You and Harol might already know this but, I realize that when i have OD off, when the car goes into 3rd gear it automatically locks the TC around 4k rpm. I discovered this the other day because while flooring it at 3k in 3rd gear as it went up in RPM i noticed a change in power. As rpm's kept goign up I put my switch to unlock TC and i got a sudden increase in acceleration and way faster reving!!!!. I think Jime made this observation very long ago as well but cant find the thread. I think for my application i might actually leave the TC unlocked the whole time and maybe lock it when i get near the end of the run. I wonder if this is why some automatic high power Supra's have "unlocked auto transmission"

 

I was talking about purging and spraying it downwards toward the track, from inside the engine compartment - out of sight, out of mind...

Yeah, I know about the TC locking in third, but that is a modulated lock, not a complete hard lockup of the clutch - I think Aaron discovered this a while back. It's up to you on how to use the TC lock. I never got to really test it, but my plan was to launch unlocked, lock it up at the end of first gear, run it out in first gear, then shift into 2nd gear, etc.... Third gear is too high to engage the TC, I think.

I launched once in first and locked the TC about 4K and promptly broke the slicks loose and hit rev limiter 4 or 5 times before I could get out of the throttle. Weird - and kinda scary...

 

No, I meant spraying the purge beneath the car onto the track so nobody sees it. Sorry. Bad choice of words.

Yeah, I knew that the TC does that stock. But it doesn't lock up in 2nd gear, which I plan to experiment with when I spray the 1/4 mile. I think we've talked about the stock tranny doing that before. I guess not.

To go with what Grey said, I am thinking of locking itup either in 1st gear or just after I make the 1-2 shift. My 1st gear already goes pretty quickly with the 22" slicks NA and a 1.9 60'. Now with a much better 60' and spraying out of the hole, it's going to be fun! I don't know if I'll have enough time to lock it up in 1st gear. It takes a fraction of a second to fully lock it up. It's not nearly as slow as the stock function as grey mentioned, but it still takes a tiny bit of time to drop the revs and lock it up fully.

If I get to the point that I'm running some consistant times with the nitrous, then I might try a before and after run. But unless I'm running within 3 hundredths of a second, then it won't be consistant enough by my standards.

 

Well at the 1/4th track I have tested leaving TC stock, and also locking it on top of 1st, i always get best results locking in on top of 1st gear.

 

Well, bud, sounds like you have talked yourself into a 100+ shot. My job here is done....

You gotta get videos of your runs......

 

Yeap, you can go home now. I definitely have a 100+ shot in my near future.

I am planning on going to the strip tomorrow night. I will have two small digital cameras taking videos.

I will ATTEMPT to spray during my burnout for less than one second. But thing is, you have to go WOT for that one second and the slicks already spin so easily in the waterbox that I will have trouble staying off the rev limiter.

Right now, I stall it up a little bit, pull the ebrake, and do my burnout right around 4-5K rpm, then after a good 2-3 seconds, I slowly lower the ebrake and allow the slicks to yank me out of the waterbox. It might be tricky doing a 4K rpm burnout and then blipping the throttle to WOT and staying off the rev limiter.

How do you do it streetz? Any tips?

Grey, I know your tip, GET A PURGE! I will be getting one soon, don't worry.

 

Frankly, you should be fine without a purge or hitting WOT if you follow your regular burnout pattern (that sounds familiar, except my slicks pull me out of the box with the rear wheels locked). When you go WOT and spray, you'll go rich for a second until the nitrous clears out its gas and sprays liquid and yanks you down the track. It's just a momentary hesitation and then you're on your way - don't worry about it - it's safe... Just have a full bottle.

The purge before launch lets you make power much earlier in the launch, but I think your life is about to get more exciting, even without a purge.
.
Make videos - show me the slip....

 

My burnout does make the slicks sticky enough to pull me out of the waterbox. When I start feeling the slicks grab, I lower the ebrake slowly and it pulls me out. When I try to set new records, I have my rear skinnies on, which has no traction. So it easily pulls me out.

Tomorrow, I will have my 17s on the rear.

But, on my first run, I will do my normal burnout, then stage without trying to purge. I'll see what happens. Then I'll go from there. I won't have time to look at the wideband display until probably 3rd gear. So I'll spray on the street one time before the track to make sure everything feels good.

Also, if the first launch feels alright and hooks up no problem, then I'll crack the fitting on the solenoid to purge it a little bit just before I hop in my car to run. There's usually not a line at my local track. So I can hop on my car in the pits and actually run within 5 minutes.

Once I'm on the track, my senses seem to go numb since I have my cutout open and my helmet on and I'm usually racing a 700-1000hp domestic, which makes me even more deaf. All I can seem to do is fully concentrate on my RT. That's my bracket racing background coming out. I don't care who I'm racing, I always try to cut consistant low .520-.530s on the tree.

I really would like to make a nice kill tomorrow night. We'll see. I hope to have videos of every single pass I make.

 

That sounds like a plan.

The loudest car I ever matched against was a supercharged BBC 65 Impala, with the driver making runs to get his license. Now, this was a 9-second car, and with all windows sealed and helmet on, I was still deafened by the Chevy - I'm run with some very loud racers, but this car was incredibly loud - actually painful....

It sounds like you're getting your head around the nitrous stuff -once you master the 50-shot, you gonna have fun out there!!! A purge will just make the launch better. Remember, at some point you should pull a few plugs just after a pass, just to eyeball them. It ain't all A/F ratios.
.

 

Yeah, I will be reading my plugs after the first pass. I can barely hear detonation on the street with the cutout closed. But I can't hear crap at the track! And of course you can detonate without hearing it. That's why I read plugs. I'll also be bring my one step colder plugs just in case if I run into any issues.

 

what plugs are you running now, cause I had to switch over to colder plugs after a 65 shot

you could see the heat line on the ground strap and from what I was told this is another sign that the plugs are getting too hot

 

If you see the heat line near the ground strap weld, then the plugs are too hot. If you see the heat line on just the very tip of the strap, then they are too cold. But you'd rather want to sway on the cold sign of things if you are unsure. You want to see the heat line right where the strap bends downward toward the weld.

Right now, with stock heat range and 50 shot, that's where it seems to be. I will still be installing one step colder plugs today before I run at the track. It's easier to read fresh plugs after a couple passes, than trying to read 25K miles old Iridium plugs.

 

RANT

Criminey, cut off the ground straps and side-gap the plugs. If you see any heat damage on your ground straps, you're overheating the metal. If it glows, you lose.

With nitrous, it's all about getting heat out of the plug.

NEVER use platinum plugs, and iridium plugs can be just as bad. Either metal has a very hard time in transferring heat. Copper-cored plugs with steel ground straps are the best for heat transfer - cut-grounds with side gapping are best.

Beware the gleen-glaze-of-death.

/RANT
.

 

I never said heat damage. I said a heat line on your strap. It's a normal practice to determine heat range in plugs. If you don't see a heat line, then your plugs are too cold, which is still better than being too hot with nitrous.

How do you say that Iridiums are just as bad as platinums when it comes to nitrous? They are far superior than platinums and can easily withstand the abuse.

Regardless, I said I was going to install the colder copper plugs before going tonight. Whether I side gap them or not is up to me. You said yourself that I won't see a green glaze until over 100 hp. I am only spraying a 50 shot on an extremely rich mixture and retarded timing.

I do plan to remove some of the metal off my plugs and sidegap them in the future before I go any higher of a shot.

There is no reason for you to be ranting. I'm hearing you. Please don't be mad if I don't immediately do what you are recommending. I'm starting slow and I always do my research from several sources before I ever attempt anything I've never done before. I'm sorry if I appear not to be listening to you, but I am. And I do appreciate your help!

I'm sure you'll find that I will probably copy your setup exactly in the near future. I'm sure I will end up with plugs that look identical to yours and probably even a cheap coil booster.

 

I agree that you will probably end up with grey's exact setup in the future lol. His been messing with nitrous for years. I was successful with nitrous because of him and jime. And not only does Harol say cooper plugs are better for heat transfer , i have read this in various sources for nitrous, so why not stick to what everyone gets good results with? I know you may not do it, but even wtih 50shot, I always had 2step colder plugs, just to be safe.

--
Harold I just received my door lock actuator this thing is super cool lol. cant wait to install it.

 

I'm definitely going to install colder copper plugs this afternoon.

I see what grey was talking about. The only thing Iridium has going for it that copper doesn't is that it's easier to produce a spark and less chance for misfire. Of course, it will last longer, but as cheap as coppers are, it's not a big deal to replace them every few months. Other than that, copper is always going to be the best conductor and has the best ability to remove heat from the CC.

Jime has had good results from Iridiums. They easily last him the entire race season with nitrous.

But I wouldn't say Iridium is just as bad with nitrous as platinum. It has a much higher melting point and won't come apart under extreme CC temps. Platinum is always a big no no with nitrous.

 

Woops - I was kidding you - I guess that wasn't obvious, was it? I apologize for the tone of my message. The RANT /RANT thingie was supposed to be your clue.... Don't be mad.

However:
Heat range of plugs is determined by the insulator, not the ground strap. It's measured by how well heat is transferred from the center electrode to the outside shell. Platinum and iridium both have high melting points, but they suck at transferring heat away - hence my comment. I have a batch of platinum and iridium plugs with damage. Think about metal glowing brightly in the dark of your combustion chambers....

 

Grey, can you do a step by step instruction manual on how to cut the ground strap and side gap them pref. with pics for people that don't know.

 

I think he'd done that before including pictures. But I dont wanna start looking for the thread lol

 

OK - since I stirred up the subject again ( for the 14th time!), I'll try to take some photos of how I do it. Ain't no big deal....

1. Find new plug.
2. Straighten ground strap out in cheap vise.
3. Cut off strap at certain length, using dikes.
4. File off sharp edges.
5. Bend over remaining ground strap, bending only at plug body.
6. Set gap between center electrode and stub of ground strap.

Photos to follow later....
.

 

Good news - I hope they're still cheap to buy - I'll need one for the 3.5.

If you need the size of the capacitors in the relay controller for the door lock motor, let me know.

 

How exactly am I supposed to use "dikes". I don't think their teeth are that strong.





























BTW: I am just kidding.

 

I had bad luck w/iridium plugs - and those suckers are expensive, too. Jime could probably bust into the 12s with coat hanger wire.....

It's all about how well the plug handles heat transfer, both from the center electrode and from the ground strap.
.

 

arron, any track results yet?

grey, did I read correctly you will not be spraying the the 3.5?

arron, do you plan to spray through shifts when you go to higher shots or will you install and window switch?

 

I put all this evening's photos in here, but left most of them as links - don't want to force a huge download....

1. Find new plug.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn2349.jpg

2. Straighten ground strap out in cheap vice.


3. Cut off strap at certain length, using dikes.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn2351.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn2352.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn2353.jpg

A cheap dike..
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn2366.jpg

4. File off sharp edges.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn2355.jpg



5. Bend over remaining ground strap, bending only at plug body. Use a small hammer !
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn2356.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn2357.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn2359.jpg


6. Set gap between center electrode and stub of ground strap.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn2359.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn2360.jpg

Ready to gap at .035... Note the file marks on the ground stub..
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn2361.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn2362.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn2363.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn2364.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn2365.jpg

Side note: Some KGK Iridium plugs that couldn't stand the heat.


http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn2369.jpg

A busted Iridium plug insulator...
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn2368.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...s/Dscn2367.jpg

That's mostly how I do it.

 

Oh, I'll be spraying it!! Just not right away - There's gonna be a steep learning curve on this one, check out the NA performance, do a dyno or two, be sure it's healthy, then spray the sh*t out of it.

 

First off, thanks grey for the huge writeup!

I just got back from the track. I had a HORRIBLE night. I don't even feel like talking about it. So hopefully somebody can cheer me up.

My best run was 13.6 at 102mph. That was the first run of the day too and in 85 degrees! It was all downhill from there. My 60's got worse and the traps got worse. 2nd run, I got a 13.8 at 100mph after I decided to raise the FP some. On my first run, I had a 12:1 to 12.5:1 AFR all the way down the track. I read my one step colder plugs and saw slight detonation. So I bumped the FP up and richened the mixture to about 11:1, which solved the detonation. But I got 2mph slower. Makes sense.

But what doesn't make sense is how slow I was running as a whole. There could be something wrong with the motor, the nitrous, the driver or all of the above. I think it was all of the above.

I didn't have my car in full track mode, which is good to shave another 4 tenths. Also, the weather made me at least 4 tenths slower due to density altitude. But I don't think nitrous'd motors are effected a whole lot by warm weather. Also, I had my timing retarded, which easily made me 4-5 tenths slower. That's how much advancing the base timing on a stock VE can help you! But it felt like nitrous easily made up for the retarded timing.

I am very good at predicting my NA times before I step foot on the track. If I didn't spray nitrous tonight, I should have run 15.1 in the way my car was prepped. But I couldn't hook up. I was really hoping to see 1.8s. I would have gotten them if I was able to hook up the slicks while spraying out of the hole. I'm sure my hopes were too high on top of all the problems I had too.

The car did great shifting through all the shifts though. All night long, it did great. Really no difference in shifting while spraying vs NA.

On my first two runs, I used the 50 shot and was so disappointed in my times that I said, screw it! 75 shot goes in! I line up and pull a bad 60' and proceed to do a 14.11 @ 97mph. I am SO confused at this point. I still am confused about it. I read the plugs right after the run before I got to the pits, no detonation again. I ran one last time and did a 14.39 @ 95 mph.

I bet you are confused too! I will check the compression again on all my cylinders to make sure everything is running right. But my only guess is that the KS didn't like me and it pulled the timing. Or my motor is puking. Or the nitrous isn't hitting like it should.

Also, on my way home, I tried to spray the 75 shot just to see if it felt normal and my wideband instantly read RICH and the car didn't pull at all! So I have something clogged. I thought I ran my bottle empty on only 4 runs. But tonight, I weighed it and I only used up 2.5 lbs tonight. I still have a lot of nitrous left and my pressure is good.

So i have some quirks to work out. I refuse to even post this time in my sig. It's embarrasing.

Here are all 4 of my runs tonight just so you guys can make fun of me:

1st run (85 degrees - 1950' DA) 50 shot
Decent burnout - launched at 2000rpm
Tire pressure 20psi with 22" MT slicks
-----------------------
RT .119
60' 1.976
330 5.641
1/8 8.707 @ 79.437mph
1000' 11.318
1/4 13.646 @ 102.284mph

2nd run (83 degrees - 1815' DA) 50 shot
Richened the AFR
good burnout, launched at 2000rpm
Tire pressure 20psi
-----------------------
RT .060
60' 2.025
330' 5.722
1/8 8.815 @ 78.717
1000' 11.454
1/4 13.817 @ 100.600mph

3rd run (81 degrees - 1665' DA) 75 shot
Very Good burnout - launched near idle
Tire pressure 15psi
-----------------------
RT .061
60' 2.060
330' 5.835
1/8 8.988 @ 76.903
1000' 11.687
1/4 14.111 @ 97.727mph

4th run (81 degress - 1665' DA) 75 shot
Decent Burnout, launched off idle
Tire pressure 15psi
-----------------------
RT -.202
60' 2.354
330' 6.087
1/8 9.246 @ 76.873
1000' 11.943
1/4 14.392 @ 95.816

 

So how much exactly do they need to cut from the strap? In the pics it looks like the strap is 1/4" long. Also I seen other pictures where the ground was cut and they only cut the part right ontop of the electrode.

 

hey if I read this correctly, your saying n/a you would have ran about a 15.1 but you did run a 13.6 with a 50sot so that = 1.5sec with only a 50shot thats GREAT

plus you also stated that your car was not fully track preped which is good for another 3-4tenths so that means you would have ran a 13.2-13.3 which is a very good time. so once you get your problems worked out you will be fine

oh yeah I do not think anyone broke a world record on their 1st time at the track with nitrous

 

Dude - you just went to nitrous-at-the-track school! And did purdy good, too. Your first pass was very encouraging!

You also re-discovered some nitrous truths.

0. Spraying at a track is very different than spraying on the street.
1. Nitrous always requires wider/stickier slicks.
2. Normal NA tuning doesn't apply.
3. You have to re-learn how to drive your car.
4. You will encounter weird sh*t happening when you spray.
5. See "0" above.....

Looking at what you said about the night, and skipping your expectations, if you had left the car alone after the first pass, and concentrated on launch and driving, you would have a good baseline to work from, and possibly better times to post up... I don't know what you expected, but you did good on the 50-shot.

Nitrous doesn't really care about ambient conditions, but the NA part does, and so does the driver. Obviously something went wrong when you changed up to a 75-shot, since times went to heck and street-spraying was also bad. Sounds like your nitrous feed is blocked somewhere or the solenoid wasn't working.

I think you tried to do too many things in one evening - I gave that up years ago and just make one change at a time and test the heck out of it until I master it - whatever it is.

When launching w/nitrous, the power hits all at once, so your tires need to be up to the job. I launch with 75-shot and hit the second 75-shot as soon as I'm rolling - so I have traction problems. Think about how much fun that would be for you !! Sticker tires are required. Soak what you got in 50-50% methyl alcohol/VHT juice, let dry overnight.

You don't have anything to feel bad about - so you didn't crack into the 12s on your first time out - so what? How many nitrous Maximas do that? It's not a long list, is it?

Keep at it - but one change at a time.

 

Yeah. I'm sure my hopes were just too high. It is pretty amazing how much time I can shave by doing some track prep mods.

I know Jime ran 14.6 NA and on the same day without changing anything, he ran 13.1 with a 35 shot on pump gas. If he does it time and time again, I know I can too. It just may involve me heading to another track in NC that knows how to prep. I have to figure out how to get 1.7 60's. The slicks didn't come close to holding my power even after a good burnout which pulled me out of the water box.

I still have some suspension stuff I can do to improve the launch. But if I want those 22" MTs to hold, I will need to get some wider wheels. I have them on some 15x6 Millenium wheels, which really hurt the width of the slick. It's fine NA, but can't handle the nitrous.

Phase one: Tinker with car.
Phase two:
Phase three: 12s!

 

I cut mine back to 3/16", dress it with a file, smack it sideways with a hammer, and gap at .035. I don't pay attention to what others do - see my damaged plugs?? That's because of the extra metal sticking out there.