t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

well I went to the dyno today, I am waiting for the guy to email the run files but this is what happened

for those who do not know setup I have a zex dry nitrous kit, injen intake, y-pipe, cat back, mevi, walbro 255, 2 step colder side gapped plugs

results 176hp and 180tq n/a with my a/r around 12.1-12.4 (will be getting a safc soon to lean this out)

I made a pass with the mevi open and closed to get the cross over points and set it to 5000rpms

now here is the bad news I made a pass with the mevi set to 5000rpms and my vac can was not holding so I zip tied it open for my nitrous runs

the car made 225hp and 250tq at around 3800-4000rpms and stayed there till redline, the injectors were max'd out and could not make any more power and it started to run lean. my a/f spike up and settled at around 14.0. the other part that sucked is I could not tell if it's going to be worth running nitrous with a extended rev limiter since the hp leveled out a 225 till redline and never dipped

so my dreams of running a 100 dry shot is downthe tubes, so it looks like I can not go pass a 65shot and will run this till I convert over to a wet kit. then it's back to the dyno with my 100shot jets

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

I see. I would have guessed that running a 100 dry shot on the stock injectors is not possible.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

I could jump up to 370cc injectors but it's easier to just change kits

I was going to peice together a kit but I am just going to get a bottless kit and call it a day

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

It's easy to piece together a kit. You already have a nitrous solenoid and some nitrous lines. You don't need to buy those again. All you need is a $29 wet nozzle, 1 foot long 3an braided fuel line, fuel solenoid, a fuel Tfitting, and a barbed adapter fitting for your fuel solenoid.

I'd say for about $120, you'll have all the stuff you need to convert to wet.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

I emailed one of the sponsers for the org he is going to ship everything for 170.00

it would have been cheaper but nx and zex nozzles are expensive, I am guess the nozzle you are talking about is from dynotune the only problem is they copied nos. I think but not sure and if so I will not be able to use my jets and I already have about 100.00 worth

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

96sleeper maxed out his fuel pump @ 270 ish whp. He was using A33 injectors, but I’m still not convinced you maxed out the A32 injectors @ 225whp/250wtq. I’m assuming your IDC was @ 100%?

So, was this dyno w/ the JWT? If so, that's pretty damn rich (NA) for it, not typical, historically.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

I was going to use a -an fitting from the fuel tee, braided line but also thought about using a barbed fitting and high psi rubber line to get the price down

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

my pump was fine, it was the injectors that max'd out. if I remember correctly the a33 injectors are alittle bigger and would support more power than a32 injectors

and no I was not using the jwt ecu for this dyno run, I am going back later this month when I convert to a wet kit and tune for a 100wet shot, hopefully I will also have a safc 2 so I can tune my n/a setup and if I do not have the safc I'll see what I can do with the afpr

I'll post the run file with the mevi zip tied open and closed

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

That was what I meant by this:

Point being the injectors aren't that much bigger (41cc), couple that with the fact that the A32 injectors were flow tested @ one point, adn were seen to flow 270cc (20cc less than DEK injectors) So, I'm still not convinced you maxed them out. How do you know, do you know your IDC's?

The reason I'm asking is because it's good general knowledge as to when something is at it's peak, i.e. A32 FP = 270 ish whp. I'm trying to find out where the injectors max out, is it REALLY 225whp, if so, how can we back this claim (i.e. IDC data) ?

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

this is a response I recieve nealoc by pm: http://www.sr20forum.com/technical-i...hp-output.html

accordingtou

iTrader: (41)

270 Crank/flywheel or 270 whp?
270crank=229whp This could well be the definate proof needed
Since there is no EM for(i.e. IDC data)The next best thing would be a scan tool

accordingtou

iTrader: (41)

nice find

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

. .

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

here's a pic of run file and you can see how the car just would not go pass 225hp

accordingtou

iTrader: (41)

Originally Posted by Me
A32 FP = 270 ish whp
Thankyou for adj the font
You posted whp as if you knew for sure I GUESS NOOOOT
........

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

wat?
But I still say A32FP + A33 injectors = 270 whp, with the FP being the limiting factor.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

well I could spray the car again with the same size shot and data log it but since I already know it's not good for my car and it will run leaner than I like it's not going to happen

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Exactly wouldn’t want you blowing the thing up. Just as good thing to know, and a good basis for a theory.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

this maybe true but I am running a32 injectors which = less hp

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

We've established that.

So, A32FP + A33 injectors = 270 whp, with the FP being the limiting factor.

Source: http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=360754

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

he is refering to his pump in the thread, I am running a walbro 255 which is not the problem

I am talking about my injectors

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

I know hence the acronym FP, which is fuel pump.

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Yes, I was referring to the Dynotune nozzle which is a copy of NOS. So you might as well find a used Shark nozzle on ebay. I wouldn't skimp on the fuel solenoid though. But as far as the lines and nozzle, search ebay.

And you have $100 worth of jets!? That's pretty crazy. I have about 10 or so which is good for any combination from 35 to 100. They are $4 each from Dynotune. So I'll be buying a few more really soon in order to do 125 and 150.

And there's nothing wrong with using a fuel injection hose. And if you don't already have a fuel pressure gauge, now's the best time to install one. You can get a 4 way fitting in order to tap into the fuel line for the nitrous solenoid and gauge. It was much cheaper for me to just install two T-fittings though.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

I was biding on a zex and nx nozzle and the dumb people are driving up the price close to what they are new. I'll continue to look but if I do not find something soon I'll just get it new, I priced all the parts and Justin is cheaper even with shipping. the fuel niod I will def buy new everything else willing to get it used

I know , I have enough to go from 50-300 and almost every shot between. this way I am not stuck with the suggested setting encase the a/f is not what I want. oh, do not forget I also have another car with nitrous also

yes I already have a mech gauge under the hood and a electric fuel psi gauge in the car. I use the mech gauge as a backup. the more I think about it the more I will most likely use a barbed fitting and rubber high psi hose, this will drop the price about 30-40bucks. which will be about 130-140 shipped for all new parts

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

Aaron any feedback about the nitrous program. did you find it helpfully or no
guess wondering ?

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

You mean an ECU program as far as timing?

I tried the 93 octane NA tune with a 75 shot and 110 leaded octane and still saw detonation on my plugs. It was just way too much timing advance.

So I went back to the stock program. I plan to advance the base timing from stock once I feel the AFR is under control to squeeze out a few more ponies.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

no the excel program I emailed you and grey99max.

oh I plan to hit the dyno later this month when I convert the kit, I am shooting for about 270hp and 300-320tq with a 100shot and safc tune

will post the reviews

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Oh sorry. I don't know how it's helpful. Maybe I just don't know how to read it.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

this should explain it, I just made a few changes for a maxima

http://www.sr20forum.com/nitrous/596...control-2.html

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

placed my order this morning for the parts needed to convert my kit to wet
will be going with a 3/8 fuel tee (the zex tee looks alittle to small) and high psi rubber fuel line hose

I should be back at the dyno later this month

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Oh yeah. I already have read that article. It's good.

But the excel spreadsheet doesn't have labels so I know what I'm reading. But I think I know now. You added the torque that a particular shot of nitrous produces with 160whp that a Maxima might already have.

Where did you get all your nitrous numbers though? They are a little different than other charts I've read in that SR20 thread.

A little rule of thumb, if Jime can spray a 150 shot at 3500rpm, then we know the motor can easily handle it at 5K rpm. So a stock VQ30DE should be able to handle a properly tuned progressive 200+ shot. I hope to try out this theory once I have my spare VE ready to swap in once this one pops.

grey99max

iTrader: (12)

I read the spreadsheet, but I don't understand the value of those numbers?

I can testify that my old 3.0 would take a 150-shot at 3K - I've done that a lot - maybe that accounts for my tire-spin issues, eh?

I don't get the need for progressive nitrous controllers, either. Once you're beyond tire-spin, what good does it do? My response to tire-spin was better tires. Yeah, I was overpowering the 8.5" M&Hs at launch with 150-shot, but that's why I used a 75-shot + 75-shot , so I could get into the second stage when I felt the need. After slicks hook up, both stages, baby ! I could have used a third stage at the top end, too - sometimes... And M&H has wider slicks, too - up to 12" wide for a 15" wheel.

Since tracks vary so much, location to location and day to day, I wanted the immediate control you have with switches - my first stage was at WOT, and second stage was WOT plus the foot switch.

I think my cammed 3.5 will take a similar approach - but less nitrous to start. Now if the ice and snow and low temps would go away, then I could work on it again...

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

The purpose of the progressive besides that it helps traction is that it allows you to spray more nitrous as revs increase. The amount of torque that the 150 shot of nitrous provides at 3K rpm is MUCH higher than that same 150 shot at 6K rpm.

So if the engine can withstand a 150 shot at 3K, then it should be able to withstand a 250 shot at 5K rpm. Pretty crazy, huh?

A 150 shot at 3K rpm provides over 250ft-lbs of extra torque. A 150 shot at 5K rpm only provides about 150ft-lbs of torque.

So using the fact that we know a VQ30DE can easily withstand a 150 shot out of the hole (which is over 250ft-lbs), then it can withstand a LOT more nitrous as the revs increase and the torque load subsides.

Lets just say that the VQ30DE will blow up when the nitrous torque load gets above 250ft-lbs. Then to get the fastest track times, you need to continue that 250ft-lbs torque load as the revs increase. The only way to do this is with a progressive controller.

You can run 2 or 3 stages of nitrous, but you have to be careful not to engage the extra stages at too low of a rpm when you start dealing with a 200+ combined shot. Plus, a progressive shot is gradual and will allow you to get away with spraying more nitrous before the motor blows than a dual stage setup.

I like this chart. The numbers is the amount of torque that a particular shot of nitrous will provide at a certain rpm.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

thought this info might be helpful to everyone. I recieve this in a pm

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

I felt asthought these would have been safe ranges for me since this is my dd and I did not go to the dyno yet . I know the motor can handle more but just want to play it safe

also I left the spreadsheet at 160ft lbs across the board till I get my really #'s from the dyno, and that I have this info from the run files I will be able to load a more agressive program.

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

on my truck I only pulse the niod for 1.5sec, it just enough to get off the line without tire spin. also you do not have worry if your timing is off cause the program is preset. this way you will know the each stage is turning on and off at the correct rpm every single time. no more user error. grey you can use it to preset the rpm ranges for your mutli stages a not use the progressive feature

well there is more than one way to do things and this is what I like

but yes aaron hit it dead one with how to read the spreadsheet. the 2nd spreadsheet was left open so you can enter your own, rpm, nitrous shot and torque and it will tell you how much torque the motor will be making

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

well written youg luke the force is truely with you
you understand what I was trying to say and explained it alot better

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Did that picture show up for you?

I don't think SR allows crosslinking of their images and for some reason, I can't edit my post.

I put it on my web server:

t6378tp

iTrader: (69)

yes it's showing now

yes what I did is add another column to add another 160ft lbs of torque so you can see the load on the motor at each rpm. since I know what my motor makes n/a I can update the chart for my car and change the nitrous shot sizes accordingly