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? Use nitrous to override the factory rev limiter ?

Nitrous Discuss dry, wet, and direct port nitrous setups. How many shots can you handle?

? Use nitrous to override the factory rev limiter ?

Old 12-17-2008, 12:52 PM
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? Use nitrous to override the factory rev limiter ?

Since the 4th gen ECUs have a built-in rev limiter that essentially turns off the fuel injectors at 6550 RPMs, but ignition continues to 8,000 RPMs, could I use another nitrous stage using a much larger fuel jet, triggered by a MSD switch to start spraying at 6500 RPMs? The nitrous will atomize the fuel very well, so the new nozzle won't be dribbling fuel, but spraying it. The MSD 8969 could serve as a window switch from 6500 to 8000...

Of course testing anything on the highways will have to wait until the highways get a lot warmer than 10*F, but I think just a 35-shot jet for nitrous and a fuel jet sized for a 100 to 200 fuel shot could test the concept nicely - I'll just use the PLX A/F to see what happens on the log file.

If this works, my 2nd gear could extend from 85 MPH to 105 MPH at 8000 rpms, and with the stock ECU. Merry Xmas to me if this will work.

And no, I'm not going to install piggybacks to get rid of the fuel cut - way too much overhead for me.


Last edited by grey99max; 12-17-2008 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 12-17-2008, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
Since the 4th gen ECUs have a built-in rev limiter that essentially turns off the fuel injectors at 6550 RPMs, but ignition continues to 8,000 RPMs, could I use another nitrous stage using a much larger fuel jet, triggered by a MSD switch to start spraying at 6500 RPMs? The nitrous will atomize the fuel very well, so the new nozzle won't be dribbling fuel, but spraying it. The MSD 8969 could serve as a window switch from 6500 to 8000...

Of course testing anything on the highways will have to wait until the highways get a lot warmers than 10*F, but I think just a 35-shot jet for nitrous and a fuel jet sized for a 100 to 200 fuel shot could test the concept nicely - I'll just use the PLX A/F to see what happens on the log file.

If this works, my 2nd gear could extend from 85 MPH to 105 MPH at 8000 rpms, and with the stock ECU. Merry Xmas to me if this will work.

And no, I'm not going to install piggybacks to get rid of the fuel cut - way too much overhead for me.

Interesting idea! What kind of rod bolts and valve springs do you have?
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Old 12-17-2008, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by 505max94se View Post
Interesting idea! What kind of rod bolts and valve springs do you have?
ARP and stock. eBay cams. No sign of valve float at 6500.

I should be able to test the concept safely to 7K, I think. Tempting, isn't it?

.
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Old 12-17-2008, 02:49 PM
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Old 12-17-2008, 04:39 PM
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co-sign x2 will check this thread alot now to view results lol
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Old 12-17-2008, 05:41 PM
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your a very brave man, I would ot really worry about the fuel getting there cause it's almost like a carb setup. but I would be worried about one of the cylinders or banks leaning out. and the only way to tell is with a wideband or egt in each collector or header

now if you had a direct port setup I think your chances would be alot better. I vote for a jwt ecu with a extended rev limiter and stock timings maps, plug and play the way you like it
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Old 12-17-2008, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by t6378tp View Post
your a very brave man, I would ot really worry about the fuel getting there cause it's almost like a carb setup. but I would be worried about one of the cylinders or banks leaning out. and the only way to tell is with a wideband or egt in each collector or header

now if you had a direct port setup I think your chances would be alot better. I vote for a jwt ecu with a extended rev limiter and stock timings maps, plug and play the way you like it
Best way to check is to run the car without nitrous until 6500, then spray the 35-shot-nitrous/200-shot-fuel nozzle and see what the plugs look like - if it works. Can you even make a direct-port setup even work on a SSIM manifold? I actually thought about it a bit, but the layout looks really sucky for direct-port.

No piggybacks or other funky remanufactured ECUs for me - if I can't tweak it, I don't want it. Besides, my car is a '99 with NAT - did JWT even do that year of ECU? Someone did, I seem to remember...

What I really want is to be able to use a UTEC on my engine while still using the stock ECU and the 3.0 timing stuff on the 3.5. Only the UTEC has absolute ignition controlled from the flywheel, but the UTEC needs the 3.5 timing ring to work, and I can't see any way to get both a 3.0 and 3.5 timing ring on the flywheel. Oh, well, back to spraying to beat the rev limiter.
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Old 12-18-2008, 12:50 AM
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No advice here, but I sure hope it works. Good luck.
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Old 12-18-2008, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by sparks03max View Post
No advice here, but I sure hope it works. Good luck.
And good luck with your "ultima" as well.... heh. You know, you're good enough to make me think about driving to the east coast for a little grudge match. The weather messed up the match we had planned with one_fast_max, but I still want to do one somewhere.
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Old 12-18-2008, 07:32 AM
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man.......with the $$ and time you're going to spend on this, you should just get an EU, I think you'll endup with one big nitrous backfire if you proceed with your plan.
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by secondtonone317 View Post
man.......with the $$ and time you're going to spend on this, you should just get an EU, I think you'll endup with one big nitrous backfire if you proceed with your plan.
No time, no money - all I have to do is change the fuel jet and the ON settings for the first nitrous stage to 6500 and cut off at 7000, and change the Shift_Fast_3 shift point to 7000. Almost everything important is adjustable now.

Since I'll need to makeup the missing WOT fuel I think I'll use the 200-shot fuel jet.

I don't like the EU, since it just offsets the stock ECU timing and fuel, and I have discovered that those factors change where you don't expect them to.
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:14 AM
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^ but don't you think you will end up with a big nitrous backfire? How will you control detonation and the ecu pulling timing. Its a good concept, I thought it was stupid when I saw the title but then I thought about it and pictured it working but there are too many variables and I think it will just be one big nitrous backfire but thats my opinion. If you test it out make a video.......
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Old 12-18-2008, 01:09 PM
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I think that it's a great idea and I don't think a nitrous backfire is anymore likely to happen than a regular nitrous run with a semi big shot.
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Old 12-18-2008, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by secondtonone317 View Post
^ but don't you think you will end up with a big nitrous backfire? How will you control detonation and the ecu pulling timing. Its a good concept, I thought it was stupid when I saw the title but then I thought about it and pictured it working but there are too many variables and I think it will just be one big nitrous backfire but thats my opinion. If you test it out make a video.......
Don't forget, I've been spraying 150 and 175-shots most of this year, have sprayed over the last three years, and the car still runs. A 35-shot with extra fuel from 6500 to 7000 rpms doesn't seem nearly as dangerous as a 175-shot all the way down the quarter-mile...


All I need is decent weather and clear highways........
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Old 12-18-2008, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
And good luck with your "ultima" as well.... heh. You know, you're good enough to make me think about driving to the east coast for a little grudge match. The weather messed up the match we had planned with one_fast_max, but I still want to do one somewhere.
Thats cool, I'd be down. I'll be all about the track next season b/c my school schedule leaves me open for everything. The track I go to down here is never very crowded so I can get 10+ runs out of a TnT night, although I've thought about taking a road trip up to MIR looking for a PB since they have a better track.
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Old 12-18-2008, 04:37 PM
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Oh how I miss 8k rpms... DO NOT get an emu, that has been and still is my biggest issue with the car. Its an interesting idea, I wouldnt try it though without some timing retarded. My .02
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Old 12-19-2008, 06:14 PM
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When do you think you're going to test this idea?

As far as engine management. Have you thought about using Nistune?
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Old 12-19-2008, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 505max94se View Post
When do you think you're going to test this idea?

As far as engine management. Have you thought about using Nistune?
Testing? when the temps are up and the highways are cleared.. Sand and salt make for poor traction, and the frozen ice across the interstates doesn't help. Right now temps are in the 20's and tomorrow it's single-digit temps again.

What's a "nistune"?
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Old 12-19-2008, 06:50 PM
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Gray, i always support ur ideas, but this one might be pushing it. You might end up with yet another blown motor. At this point, you might have to give in and finally get something to customize ur setup, im talking about electronically like UTEC, or e manage ultimate.

now, to ur idea:
if ignition is still going during fuel cut, then all u have to do to test this idea is spray fuel alone (no nitrous!), by disconnecting the ground or power of ur nitrous solenoid, this is just to test the idea. You dont wanna be testing while spraying nitrous as well. just take the car to the limiter and spray a small shot of fuel alone. if it works then wallah!

goodluck
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Old 12-19-2008, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
Testing? when the temps are up and the highways are cleared.. Sand and salt make for poor traction, and the frozen ice across the interstates doesn't help. Right now temps are in the 20's and tomorrow it's single-digit temps again.

What's a "nistune"?
Nistune (http://www.nistune.com/) is for modifying older Nissan ECUs, not the A32. He's a 3rd gen guy, probably why he brought it up.

We only support some Nissan ECUs from 1984 - 1996 era. We dont plan to support any other vehicles.
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Old 12-19-2008, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by pmohr View Post
Nistune (http://www.nistune.com/) is for modifying older Nissan ECUs, not the A32. He's a 3rd gen guy, probably why he brought it up.
Oh, OK, thanks for the info... sounds like an interesting product anyway.
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Old 12-19-2008, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by streetzlegend View Post
Gray, i always support ur ideas, but this one might be pushing it. You might end up with yet another blown motor. At this point, you might have to give in and finally get something to customize ur setup, im talking about electronically like UTEC, or e manage ultimate.

now, to ur idea:
if ignition is still going during fuel cut, then all u have to do to test this idea is spray fuel alone (no nitrous!), by disconnecting the ground or power of ur nitrous solenoid, this is just to test the idea. You dont wanna be testing while spraying nitrous as well. just take the car to the limiter and spray a small shot of fuel alone. if it works then wallah!

goodluck
Well, what the heck, I'm building another 3.5 anyway. I would really do the UTEC except for the required 3.5 flywheel. I won't mess with piggybacks that just offset the stock ECU - too much variance in the timing for me.

About the idea - I think if I just spray through a fuel jet in an existing NX nozzle, the fuel won't atomize enough - just make puddles in the SSIM intake. Then I could have a fire instead of an explosion....

If I run NA up to fuel-cut then spray a teeny tiny shot of nitrous along with a bucket of fuel, that should make a great spray, don't you think? I'll do that for 300-500 RPMs at first, just to log what happens.

If there's a better way to spray enough fuel into the engine, speak up - I can't think of anything...
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Old 12-19-2008, 07:09 PM
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Had more time to type today... so my opinion on this:

It's my understanding that you are trapping more than 105, correct? So even having your 2nd gear top out at 105 in the 1/4 still means another shift. Personally, I would stick with the 6500 limiter, and possibly even go down in tire size so you trap deep in 3rd gear and get to use more of your powerband.

If you want to raise the limiter, save for some engine management... it'll save you money in the long run b/c I can't imagine how long you'd last spraying all the fuel into your IM. I'd be worried a cylinder would go lean and that's all it takes.

If you're going to do it this way, I'd consider a direct port setup for that stage.
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Old 12-19-2008, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by sparks03max View Post
Had more time to type today... so my opinion on this:

It's my understanding that you are trapping more than 105, correct? So even having your 2nd gear top out at 105 in the 1/4 still means another shift. Personally, I would stick with the 6500 limiter, and possibly even go down in tire size so you trap deep in 3rd gear and get to use more of your powerband.

If you want to raise the limiter, save for some engine management... it'll save you money in the long run b/c I can't imagine how long you'd last spraying all the fuel into your IM. I'd be worried a cylinder would go lean and that's all it takes.

If you're going to do it this way, I'd consider a direct port setup for that stage.
I was trapping around 113 MPH until I ran into some fuel starvation problems this fall. The point was not to run the engine out to 8000, but to show the difference that it could make in speed in 2nd gear. A few dyno pulls will show the horsepower curve on up the RPM curve and the best shift points.

I use both 23x8.5x15 and 24.5x8.5x15 M&H Racemaster slicks, so I already adjust tire size for conditions. My avatar photo was with the 24.5" slicks. With the 23" slicks, I was just at the rev limiter at the top of third gear already - one reason I want to raise it.

I try crazy stuff fairly often - not all of it gets to this forum. This one will.....


.

Last edited by grey99max; 12-19-2008 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 12-19-2008, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
I was trapping around 113 MPH until I ran into some fuel starvation problems this fall. The point was not to run the engine out to 8000, but to show the difference that it could make in speed in 2nd gear. A few dyno pulls will show the horsepower curve on up the RPM curve and the best shift points.

I use both 23x8.5x15 and 24.5x8.5x15 M&H Racemaster slicks, so I already adjust tire size for conditions. My avatar photo was with the 24.5" slicks. With the 23" slicks, I was just at the rev limiter at the top of third gear already - one reason I want to raise it.

I try crazy stuff fairly often - not all of it gets to this forum. This one will.....


.
I'm definately in to see how this works. I still haven't gotten my UTEC yet, but I'll be doing it before next season most likely. Sadly I'm getting this weird itch for a LSX swapped Miata, so the max may get polished off with a full N/A setup, lose the slicks/nitrous, and stay my daily while I start into a new project. We need to meet up at the track before then, as close as we're running it'd be a blast to race!
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Old 12-19-2008, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by sparks03max View Post
I'm definately in to see how this works. I still haven't gotten my UTEC yet, but I'll be doing it before next season most likely. Sadly I'm getting this weird itch for a LSX swapped Miata, so the max may get polished off with a full N/A setup, lose the slicks/nitrous, and stay my daily while I start into a new project. We need to meet up at the track before then, as close as we're running it'd be a blast to race!
Oh, you're fast, but close to the LandShark?.... hummmm..... we'll see, with any luck. Think 500 WHP on those 26x10x15 M&H slicks for next year..... See, we're already having fun!

Three NX stages for 275-shot spray - wheeee !!!
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Old 12-19-2008, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by pmohr View Post
Nistune (http://www.nistune.com/) is for modifying older Nissan ECUs, not the A32. He's a 3rd gen guy, probably why he brought it up.
I thought that they were working on a daughter board for the 4th gen?? They told me that they would send me a plug and play ecu for around $600.

Yeah, I'm a 3rd gen guy, but I read as much as possible about VQ's because I have a VQ30DET S13. I'm planning on using Nistune and a 4th gen ecu.
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
Oh, you're fast, but close to the LandShark?.... hummmm..... we'll see, with any luck. Think 500 WHP on those 26x10x15 M&H slicks for next year..... See, we're already having fun!

Three NX stages for 275-shot spray - wheeee !!!
275 shot??? Is that going to be sprayed on a built engine!? If not, maybe I'll get lucky and you'll break

lol I wouldn't wish that on you, but I'm hoping to at least throw in the walbro and up the shot, along with maybe not sucking at launching!
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Old 12-20-2008, 04:11 AM
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hello i am new here in this forum,this is my first time to post in your forum,,




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Great thing to know about busby seo test.
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Old 12-20-2008, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jams002 View Post
hello i am new here in this forum,this is my first time to post in your forum,,
Yay?
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Old 12-20-2008, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by 505max94se View Post
I thought that they were working on a daughter board for the 4th gen?? They told me that they would send me a plug and play ecu for around $600.

Yeah, I'm a 3rd gen guy, but I read as much as possible about VQ's because I have a VQ30DET S13. I'm planning on using Nistune and a 4th gen ecu.
I just checked their web site, and all they have listed for any VQ30 is: "Y33 Cedrick (VQ30DET)" - looks like they are focused on older cars. ???
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Old 12-20-2008, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by sparks03max View Post
275 shot??? Is that going to be sprayed on a built engine!? If not, maybe I'll get lucky and you'll break

lol I wouldn't wish that on you, but I'm hoping to at least throw in the walbro and up the shot, along with maybe not sucking at launching!
Yup, I'm building up another 3.5 - forged lower end, balanced, ported heads, more radical cams, strong enough for 800+ crank HP. With nitrous, I can sneak up on WHP gradually. There's a thread in All Motor : http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/5...ar-engine.html


My present engine is doing fine with 175-shot, producing 405 WHP, but that's about 500 crank HP, I think - anyway, too close to the limit for stock bottom ends...
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Old 12-20-2008, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
I just checked their web site, and all they have listed for any VQ30 is: "Y33 Cedrick (VQ30DET)" - looks like they are focused on older cars. ???
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...addresses.html
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Old 12-20-2008, 02:13 PM
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So did this project just die a natural death? And since I have a '99, there's nothing there for me anyway.

On a side note, there are references to Early and Late '99s here and there when buying parts.

Cat-Part.com shows these two dates when searching for '99 ECUs:

"Elec Cont Unit (ECU), (under center of dash), GLE, Fed, w/traction control (TCS), thru 9/98"

"Elec Cont Unit (ECU), (under center of dash), GLE, Fed, w/traction control (TCS), from 10/98"

There are others, but this should prove that something changed for the '99 production year.....

.
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Old 12-20-2008, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
So did this project just die a natural death? And since I have a '99, there's nothing there for me anyway.

On a side note, there are references to Early and Late '99s here and there when buying parts.

Cat-Part.com shows these two dates when searching for '99 ECUs:

"Elec Cont Unit (ECU), (under center of dash), GLE, Fed, w/traction control (TCS), thru 9/98"

"Elec Cont Unit (ECU), (under center of dash), GLE, Fed, w/traction control (TCS), from 10/98"

There are others, but this should prove that something changed for the '99 production year.....

.
Yeah, I know the 99 is different, but I'm pretty sure that you could get one of their VQ ecu's to run your motor with out too much work and you'd have much better tunability and drivability than anything else that's available to tune a VQ. Much better than utec...

Isn't there some 4th gen guys that have swapped a 95-96 ecu for their 97-98 or 99 ecu?
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Old 12-20-2008, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 505max94se View Post
Yeah, I know the 99 is different, but I'm pretty sure that you could get one of their VQ ecu's to run your motor with out too much work and you'd have much better tunability and drivability than anything else that's available to tune a VQ. Much better than utec...

Isn't there some 4th gen guys that have swapped a 95-96 ecu for their 97-98 or 99 ecu?

I guess that's hard to believe until that company comes out with an advertised product for the '99 - both models. Otherwise, it's a hack job to get an older ECU to work. No real product, no care....
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Old 12-22-2008, 08:26 AM
  #37  
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I have a jwt ecu for my 99 se-L that is a fed spec 5spd. I got an ecu from a 96 and jwt did a rewire to be used in a 99. Works fine. I get a cel for emissions stuff b/c 99's have a different emmisions egr crap similar to 2000's. Now my redline is extended to 7500rpms. A few people have the jwt ecu for their 99's on the org.
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Old 12-22-2008, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by tlrmax View Post
I have a jwt ecu for my 99 se-L that is a fed spec 5spd. I got an ecu from a 96 and jwt did a rewire to be used in a 99. Works fine. I get a cel for emissions stuff b/c 99's have a different emmisions egr crap similar to 2000's. Now my redline is extended to 7500rpms. A few people have the jwt ecu for their 99's on the org.
That's interesting - the SE-L is a 99.5 model, so JWT was able to put in the wiring and coding in your 96 ECU to make it work....

Did you provide JWT an original ECU or did they have the code?
Does your NAT still work?
Did they give you any options about rich/lean or ignition advance changes? Does your JWT ECU have all the other functions of your '99?
Did they ask for a 96 ECU for the conversion?
Did you talk to anyone special about your conversion?
Does your engine have any performance mods working with the ECU?

Bunch of questions, but important stuff.......... (nice color, by the way)

.
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Old 12-22-2008, 12:52 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by tlrmax View Post
I have a jwt ecu for my 99 se-L that is a fed spec 5spd. I got an ecu from a 96 and jwt did a rewire to be used in a 99. Works fine. I get a cel for emissions stuff b/c 99's have a different emmisions egr crap similar to 2000's. Now my redline is extended to 7500rpms. A few people have the jwt ecu for their 99's on the org.
I knew that some of you guys had used a 95-96 ecu in a 99. Since this is is possible then it should be possible to use a nistune vq30 ecu in a 99.
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Old 12-22-2008, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 505max94se View Post
I knew that some of you guys had used a 95-96 ecu in a 99. Since this is is possible then it should be possible to use a nistune vq30 ecu in a 99.
Note that tirmax said that JWT built a re-wired and re-programmed '96 ECU for him to replace his '99 (and some things don't work now)- and I know the ECU pinout for '99s is different from the 95-98s, so anything nistune builds won't have a '99 pinout - right? And do they build an ECU for any of the '95-'99 USA Maximas? Pinout is different, functions are different - I'm not seeing this work.
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