? Use nitrous to override the factory rev limiter ?
12-17-2008, 12:52 PM
#1
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? Use nitrous to override the factory rev limiter ?
Since the 4th gen ECUs have a built-in rev limiter that essentially turns off the fuel injectors at 6550 RPMs, but ignition continues to 8,000 RPMs, could I use another nitrous stage using a much larger fuel jet, triggered by a MSD switch to start spraying at 6500 RPMs? The nitrous will atomize the fuel very well, so the new nozzle won't be dribbling fuel, but spraying it. The MSD 8969 could serve as a window switch from 6500 to 8000...
Of course testing anything on the highways will have to wait until the highways get a lot warmer than 10*F, but I think just a 35-shot jet for nitrous and a fuel jet sized for a 100 to 200 fuel shot could test the concept nicely - I'll just use the PLX A/F to see what happens on the log file.
If this works, my 2nd gear could extend from 85 MPH to 105 MPH at 8000 rpms, and with the stock ECU. Merry Xmas to me if this will work.
And no, I'm not going to install piggybacks to get rid of the fuel cut - way too much overhead for me.
Of course testing anything on the highways will have to wait until the highways get a lot warmer than 10*F, but I think just a 35-shot jet for nitrous and a fuel jet sized for a 100 to 200 fuel shot could test the concept nicely - I'll just use the PLX A/F to see what happens on the log file.
If this works, my 2nd gear could extend from 85 MPH to 105 MPH at 8000 rpms, and with the stock ECU. Merry Xmas to me if this will work.
And no, I'm not going to install piggybacks to get rid of the fuel cut - way too much overhead for me.
Last edited by grey99max; 12-17-2008 at 05:20 PM.
12-17-2008, 01:12 PM
#2
Since the 4th gen ECUs have a built-in rev limiter that essentially turns off the fuel injectors at 6550 RPMs, but ignition continues to 8,000 RPMs, could I use another nitrous stage using a much larger fuel jet, triggered by a MSD switch to start spraying at 6500 RPMs? The nitrous will atomize the fuel very well, so the new nozzle won't be dribbling fuel, but spraying it. The MSD 8969 could serve as a window switch from 6500 to 8000...
Of course testing anything on the highways will have to wait until the highways get a lot warmers than 10*F, but I think just a 35-shot jet for nitrous and a fuel jet sized for a 100 to 200 fuel shot could test the concept nicely - I'll just use the PLX A/F to see what happens on the log file.
If this works, my 2nd gear could extend from 85 MPH to 105 MPH at 8000 rpms, and with the stock ECU. Merry Xmas to me if this will work.
And no, I'm not going to install piggybacks to get rid of the fuel cut - way too much overhead for me.
Of course testing anything on the highways will have to wait until the highways get a lot warmers than 10*F, but I think just a 35-shot jet for nitrous and a fuel jet sized for a 100 to 200 fuel shot could test the concept nicely - I'll just use the PLX A/F to see what happens on the log file.
If this works, my 2nd gear could extend from 85 MPH to 105 MPH at 8000 rpms, and with the stock ECU. Merry Xmas to me if this will work.
And no, I'm not going to install piggybacks to get rid of the fuel cut - way too much overhead for me.
12-17-2008, 05:41 PM
#6
your a very brave man, I would ot really worry about the fuel getting there cause it's almost like a carb setup. but I would be worried about one of the cylinders or banks leaning out. and the only way to tell is with a wideband or egt in each collector or header
now if you had a direct port setup I think your chances would be alot better. I vote for a jwt ecu with a extended rev limiter and stock timings maps, plug and play the way you like it
now if you had a direct port setup I think your chances would be alot better. I vote for a jwt ecu with a extended rev limiter and stock timings maps, plug and play the way you like it
12-17-2008, 05:53 PM
#7
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your a very brave man, I would ot really worry about the fuel getting there cause it's almost like a carb setup. but I would be worried about one of the cylinders or banks leaning out. and the only way to tell is with a wideband or egt in each collector or header
now if you had a direct port setup I think your chances would be alot better. I vote for a jwt ecu with a extended rev limiter and stock timings maps, plug and play the way you like it
now if you had a direct port setup I think your chances would be alot better. I vote for a jwt ecu with a extended rev limiter and stock timings maps, plug and play the way you like it
No piggybacks or other funky remanufactured ECUs for me - if I can't tweak it, I don't want it. Besides, my car is a '99 with NAT - did JWT even do that year of ECU? Someone did, I seem to remember...
What I really want is to be able to use a UTEC on my engine while still using the stock ECU and the 3.0 timing stuff on the 3.5. Only the UTEC has absolute ignition controlled from the flywheel, but the UTEC needs the 3.5 timing ring to work, and I can't see any way to get both a 3.0 and 3.5 timing ring on the flywheel. Oh, well, back to spraying to beat the rev limiter.
12-18-2008, 06:40 AM
#9
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And good luck with your "ultima" as well.... heh. You know, you're good enough to make me think about driving to the east coast for a little grudge match. The weather messed up the match we had planned with one_fast_max, but I still want to do one somewhere.
12-18-2008, 09:22 AM
#11
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Since I'll need to makeup the missing WOT fuel I think I'll use the 200-shot fuel jet.
I don't like the EU, since it just offsets the stock ECU timing and fuel, and I have discovered that those factors change where you don't expect them to.
12-18-2008, 11:14 AM
#12
^ but don't you think you will end up with a big nitrous backfire? How will you control detonation and the ecu pulling timing. Its a good concept, I thought it was stupid when I saw the title but then I thought about it and pictured it working but there are too many variables and I think it will just be one big nitrous backfire but thats my opinion. If you test it out make a video.......
12-18-2008, 01:34 PM
#14
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^ but don't you think you will end up with a big nitrous backfire? How will you control detonation and the ecu pulling timing. Its a good concept, I thought it was stupid when I saw the title but then I thought about it and pictured it working but there are too many variables and I think it will just be one big nitrous backfire but thats my opinion. If you test it out make a video.......
All I need is decent weather and clear highways........
12-18-2008, 02:02 PM
#15
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Thats cool, I'd be down. I'll be all about the track next season b/c my school schedule leaves me open for everything. The track I go to down here is never very crowded so I can get 10+ runs out of a TnT night, although I've thought about taking a road trip up to MIR looking for a PB since they have a better track.
12-19-2008, 06:46 PM
#18
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What's a "nistune"?
12-19-2008, 06:50 PM
#19
Gray, i always support ur ideas, but this one might be pushing it. You might end up with yet another blown motor. At this point, you might have to give in and finally get something to customize ur setup, im talking about electronically like UTEC, or e manage ultimate.
now, to ur idea:
if ignition is still going during fuel cut, then all u have to do to test this idea is spray fuel alone (no nitrous!), by disconnecting the ground or power of ur nitrous solenoid, this is just to test the idea. You dont wanna be testing while spraying nitrous as well. just take the car to the limiter and spray a small shot of fuel alone. if it works then wallah!
goodluck
now, to ur idea:
if ignition is still going during fuel cut, then all u have to do to test this idea is spray fuel alone (no nitrous!), by disconnecting the ground or power of ur nitrous solenoid, this is just to test the idea. You dont wanna be testing while spraying nitrous as well. just take the car to the limiter and spray a small shot of fuel alone. if it works then wallah!
goodluck
12-19-2008, 06:55 PM
#20
We only support some Nissan ECUs from 1984 - 1996 era. We dont plan to support any other vehicles.
12-19-2008, 06:57 PM
#21
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Nistune (http://www.nistune.com/) is for modifying older Nissan ECUs, not the A32. He's a 3rd gen guy, probably why he brought it up.
12-19-2008, 07:07 PM
#22
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Gray, i always support ur ideas, but this one might be pushing it. You might end up with yet another blown motor. At this point, you might have to give in and finally get something to customize ur setup, im talking about electronically like UTEC, or e manage ultimate.
now, to ur idea:
if ignition is still going during fuel cut, then all u have to do to test this idea is spray fuel alone (no nitrous!), by disconnecting the ground or power of ur nitrous solenoid, this is just to test the idea. You dont wanna be testing while spraying nitrous as well. just take the car to the limiter and spray a small shot of fuel alone. if it works then wallah!
goodluck
now, to ur idea:
if ignition is still going during fuel cut, then all u have to do to test this idea is spray fuel alone (no nitrous!), by disconnecting the ground or power of ur nitrous solenoid, this is just to test the idea. You dont wanna be testing while spraying nitrous as well. just take the car to the limiter and spray a small shot of fuel alone. if it works then wallah!
goodluck
About the idea - I think if I just spray through a fuel jet in an existing NX nozzle, the fuel won't atomize enough - just make puddles in the SSIM intake. Then I could have a fire instead of an explosion....
If I run NA up to fuel-cut then spray a teeny tiny shot of nitrous along with a bucket of fuel, that should make a great spray, don't you think? I'll do that for 300-500 RPMs at first, just to log what happens.
If there's a better way to spray enough fuel into the engine, speak up - I can't think of anything...
12-19-2008, 07:09 PM
#23
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Had more time to type today... so my opinion on this:
It's my understanding that you are trapping more than 105, correct? So even having your 2nd gear top out at 105 in the 1/4 still means another shift. Personally, I would stick with the 6500 limiter, and possibly even go down in tire size so you trap deep in 3rd gear and get to use more of your powerband.
If you want to raise the limiter, save for some engine management... it'll save you money in the long run b/c I can't imagine how long you'd last spraying all the fuel into your IM. I'd be worried a cylinder would go lean and that's all it takes.
If you're going to do it this way, I'd consider a direct port setup for that stage.
It's my understanding that you are trapping more than 105, correct? So even having your 2nd gear top out at 105 in the 1/4 still means another shift. Personally, I would stick with the 6500 limiter, and possibly even go down in tire size so you trap deep in 3rd gear and get to use more of your powerband.
If you want to raise the limiter, save for some engine management... it'll save you money in the long run b/c I can't imagine how long you'd last spraying all the fuel into your IM. I'd be worried a cylinder would go lean and that's all it takes.
If you're going to do it this way, I'd consider a direct port setup for that stage.
12-19-2008, 07:23 PM
#24
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Had more time to type today... so my opinion on this:
It's my understanding that you are trapping more than 105, correct? So even having your 2nd gear top out at 105 in the 1/4 still means another shift. Personally, I would stick with the 6500 limiter, and possibly even go down in tire size so you trap deep in 3rd gear and get to use more of your powerband.
If you want to raise the limiter, save for some engine management... it'll save you money in the long run b/c I can't imagine how long you'd last spraying all the fuel into your IM. I'd be worried a cylinder would go lean and that's all it takes.
If you're going to do it this way, I'd consider a direct port setup for that stage.
It's my understanding that you are trapping more than 105, correct? So even having your 2nd gear top out at 105 in the 1/4 still means another shift. Personally, I would stick with the 6500 limiter, and possibly even go down in tire size so you trap deep in 3rd gear and get to use more of your powerband.
If you want to raise the limiter, save for some engine management... it'll save you money in the long run b/c I can't imagine how long you'd last spraying all the fuel into your IM. I'd be worried a cylinder would go lean and that's all it takes.
If you're going to do it this way, I'd consider a direct port setup for that stage.
I use both 23x8.5x15 and 24.5x8.5x15 M&H Racemaster slicks, so I already adjust tire size for conditions. My avatar photo was with the 24.5" slicks. With the 23" slicks, I was just at the rev limiter at the top of third gear already - one reason I want to raise it.
I try crazy stuff fairly often - not all of it gets to this forum. This one will.....
.
Last edited by grey99max; 12-19-2008 at 07:25 PM.
12-19-2008, 07:29 PM
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I was trapping around 113 MPH until I ran into some fuel starvation problems this fall. The point was not to run the engine out to 8000, but to show the difference that it could make in speed in 2nd gear. A few dyno pulls will show the horsepower curve on up the RPM curve and the best shift points.
I use both 23x8.5x15 and 24.5x8.5x15 M&H Racemaster slicks, so I already adjust tire size for conditions. My avatar photo was with the 24.5" slicks. With the 23" slicks, I was just at the rev limiter at the top of third gear already - one reason I want to raise it.
I try crazy stuff fairly often - not all of it gets to this forum. This one will.....
.
I use both 23x8.5x15 and 24.5x8.5x15 M&H Racemaster slicks, so I already adjust tire size for conditions. My avatar photo was with the 24.5" slicks. With the 23" slicks, I was just at the rev limiter at the top of third gear already - one reason I want to raise it.
I try crazy stuff fairly often - not all of it gets to this forum. This one will.....
.
12-19-2008, 07:45 PM
#26
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I'm definately in to see how this works. I still haven't gotten my UTEC yet, but I'll be doing it before next season most likely. Sadly I'm getting this weird itch for a LSX swapped Miata, so the max may get polished off with a full N/A setup, lose the slicks/nitrous, and stay my daily while I start into a new project. We need to meet up at the track before then, as close as we're running it'd be a blast to race!
Three NX stages for 275-shot spray - wheeee !!!
12-19-2008, 07:46 PM
#27
Nistune (http://www.nistune.com/) is for modifying older Nissan ECUs, not the A32. He's a 3rd gen guy, probably why he brought it up.
Yeah, I'm a 3rd gen guy, but I read as much as possible about VQ's because I have a VQ30DET S13. I'm planning on using Nistune and a 4th gen ecu.
12-19-2008, 09:16 PM
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lol I wouldn't wish that on you, but I'm hoping to at least throw in the walbro and up the shot, along with maybe not sucking at launching!
12-20-2008, 04:11 AM
#29
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hello i am new here in this forum,this is my first time to post in your forum,,
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12-20-2008, 09:01 AM
#31
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I thought that they were working on a daughter board for the 4th gen?? They told me that they would send me a plug and play ecu for around $600.
Yeah, I'm a 3rd gen guy, but I read as much as possible about VQ's because I have a VQ30DET S13. I'm planning on using Nistune and a 4th gen ecu.
Yeah, I'm a 3rd gen guy, but I read as much as possible about VQ's because I have a VQ30DET S13. I'm planning on using Nistune and a 4th gen ecu.
12-20-2008, 09:09 AM
#32
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My present engine is doing fine with 175-shot, producing 405 WHP, but that's about 500 crank HP, I think - anyway, too close to the limit for stock bottom ends...
12-20-2008, 12:59 PM
#33
12-20-2008, 02:13 PM
#34
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On a side note, there are references to Early and Late '99s here and there when buying parts.
Cat-Part.com shows these two dates when searching for '99 ECUs:
"Elec Cont Unit (ECU), (under center of dash), GLE, Fed, w/traction control (TCS), thru 9/98"
"Elec Cont Unit (ECU), (under center of dash), GLE, Fed, w/traction control (TCS), from 10/98"
There are others, but this should prove that something changed for the '99 production year.....
.
12-20-2008, 06:00 PM
#35
So did this project just die a natural death? And since I have a '99, there's nothing there for me anyway.
On a side note, there are references to Early and Late '99s here and there when buying parts.
Cat-Part.com shows these two dates when searching for '99 ECUs:
"Elec Cont Unit (ECU), (under center of dash), GLE, Fed, w/traction control (TCS), thru 9/98"
"Elec Cont Unit (ECU), (under center of dash), GLE, Fed, w/traction control (TCS), from 10/98"
There are others, but this should prove that something changed for the '99 production year.....
.
On a side note, there are references to Early and Late '99s here and there when buying parts.
Cat-Part.com shows these two dates when searching for '99 ECUs:
"Elec Cont Unit (ECU), (under center of dash), GLE, Fed, w/traction control (TCS), thru 9/98"
"Elec Cont Unit (ECU), (under center of dash), GLE, Fed, w/traction control (TCS), from 10/98"
There are others, but this should prove that something changed for the '99 production year.....
.
Isn't there some 4th gen guys that have swapped a 95-96 ecu for their 97-98 or 99 ecu?
12-20-2008, 09:16 PM
#36
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Yeah, I know the 99 is different, but I'm pretty sure that you could get one of their VQ ecu's to run your motor with out too much work and you'd have much better tunability and drivability than anything else that's available to tune a VQ. Much better than utec...
Isn't there some 4th gen guys that have swapped a 95-96 ecu for their 97-98 or 99 ecu?
Isn't there some 4th gen guys that have swapped a 95-96 ecu for their 97-98 or 99 ecu?
I guess that's hard to believe until that company comes out with an advertised product for the '99 - both models. Otherwise, it's a hack job to get an older ECU to work. No real product, no care....
12-22-2008, 08:26 AM
#37
I have a jwt ecu for my 99 se-L that is a fed spec 5spd. I got an ecu from a 96 and jwt did a rewire to be used in a 99. Works fine. I get a cel for emissions stuff b/c 99's have a different emmisions egr crap similar to 2000's. Now my redline is extended to 7500rpms. A few people have the jwt ecu for their 99's on the org.
12-22-2008, 08:58 AM
#38
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I have a jwt ecu for my 99 se-L that is a fed spec 5spd. I got an ecu from a 96 and jwt did a rewire to be used in a 99. Works fine. I get a cel for emissions stuff b/c 99's have a different emmisions egr crap similar to 2000's. Now my redline is extended to 7500rpms. A few people have the jwt ecu for their 99's on the org.
Did you provide JWT an original ECU or did they have the code?
Does your NAT still work?
Did they give you any options about rich/lean or ignition advance changes? Does your JWT ECU have all the other functions of your '99?
Did they ask for a 96 ECU for the conversion?
Did you talk to anyone special about your conversion?
Does your engine have any performance mods working with the ECU?
Bunch of questions, but important stuff.......... (nice color, by the way)
.
12-22-2008, 12:52 PM
#39
I have a jwt ecu for my 99 se-L that is a fed spec 5spd. I got an ecu from a 96 and jwt did a rewire to be used in a 99. Works fine. I get a cel for emissions stuff b/c 99's have a different emmisions egr crap similar to 2000's. Now my redline is extended to 7500rpms. A few people have the jwt ecu for their 99's on the org.
12-22-2008, 01:25 PM
#40
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Note that tirmax said that JWT built a re-wired and re-programmed '96 ECU for him to replace his '99 (and some things don't work now)- and I know the ECU pinout for '99s is different from the 95-98s, so anything nistune builds won't have a '99 pinout - right? And do they build an ECU for any of the '95-'99 USA Maximas? Pinout is different, functions are different - I'm not seeing this work.