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? Use nitrous to override the factory rev limiter ?

Nitrous Discuss dry, wet, and direct port nitrous setups. How many shots can you handle?

? Use nitrous to override the factory rev limiter ?

Old 12-29-2008, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevlo911 View Post
I have set to add w/e at the given rpm on the scale.

That is my map for bypassing the stock rev limit. The key is to get it really rich really fast to override the stock limit and then go back to w/e afr you want. This is an old map, I have fined tuned it more with different rpms at redline but you get the idea.

I have a 3" maf so I had to tune for all throttle ranges...
OK - it looks like you don't tweak the injectors much until 80% throttle and 6500 rpms, right? Do those settings give you a reasonable A/F above fuel-cut?

.
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Old 12-29-2008, 08:33 PM
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Yea since I am NA, I try to tune for about 13-13.5
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Old 12-30-2008, 05:22 AM
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I know you don't want to switch to the 5.5 ECU but its really no big deal to swap. If its done initially its easier than swapping in the 4th Gen timing stuff. Then you could use the UTEC and its pure bliss compared to the EU.

Using the UTEC and having standalone control over timing and fuel vs piggyback with the EU is worth more than any other mod available.

Last edited by Jime; 12-30-2008 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Jime View Post
I know you don't want to switch to the 5.5 ECU but its really no big deal to swap. If its done initially its easier than swapping in the 4th Gen timing stuff. Then you could use the UTEC and its pure bliss compared to the EU.

Using the UTEC and having standalone control over timing and fuel vs piggyback with the EU is worth more than any other mod available.
OK -You know I want the UTEC, so how about the details on what has to be done to my car in order to install a 5.5 ECU. I'm guessing the engine wiring harnesses and dash instrument cluster, but there has to be more than that...

I'm going to hate myself in the morning - I just know it.
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Old 01-03-2009, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
OK -You know I want the UTEC, so how about the details on what has to be done to my car in order to install a 5.5 ECU. I'm guessing the engine wiring harnesses and dash instrument cluster, but there has to be more than that...

I'm going to hate myself in the morning - I just know it.
About time you give in!!! its going to be the best decision you've made on your car.
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Old 01-04-2009, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
OK -You know I want the UTEC, so how about the details on what has to be done to my car in order to install a 5.5 ECU. I'm guessing the engine wiring harnesses and dash instrument cluster, but there has to be more than that...

I'm going to hate myself in the morning - I just know it.
http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/3...ever-need.html

http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/2...r-re-wire.html

Yes you need the cluster and engine harness. I also got the dash harness but I think i could have just hardwired instead if I had it to do over again, you throw away 95% of the dash harness.
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Old 01-04-2009, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Jime View Post
Yes you need the cluster and engine harness. I also got the dash harness but I think i could have just hardwired instead if I had it to do over again, you throw away 95% of the dash harness.
I just skimmed both threads, and was impressed w/eng92's work and clear explanations and documentation. It also scared the heck out of me - using the A33b ECU and wiring seems to be the part that will save my sanity.

Obviously I have some reading to do, but thank you for the links that make sense. Doing searches on the subject came up with a lot of useless cr*p.

My stripped short block is at the machinist for checking out, I have ARP main studs and Carrillo H-beam rods ordered, and I'm checking on coatings for CP forged 11:1 nitrous pistons. It begins.

Oh, the weather was finally nice yesterday, so I pulled the front plugs and found that #2 cylinder's plug had a damaged insulator and part of the shortened ground electrode was burned away, #4 plug was very white around the shell, and #6 looked normal - after spraying a 175-shot and logging 18:1 A/F because of fuel-flow problems. I think the SSIM has serious problems in delivering equal flow to all cylinders. Maybe a Cosworth intake instead?

Thanks again.

Last edited by grey99max; 01-04-2009 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:21 PM
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maybe it's time for a direct port setup
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 505max94se View Post
maybe it's time for a direct port setup
Seems like someone mentioned that before.....

If you can find room for 18 direct-ports (three nitrous stages x 6 ports) on the SSIM, draw pictures. I'm not seeing it.
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Old 01-04-2009, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
Seems like someone mentioned that before.....

If you can find room for 18 direct-ports (three nitrous stages x 6 ports) on the SSIM, draw pictures. I'm not seeing it.
I'm sure someone has mentioned that before. I was just suggesting direct port due to your current problem.

I'm sure you could do a triple stage direct port setup, but it would be very messy and a royal pita. I'd suggest a single stage with a progressive controller.
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Old 01-04-2009, 02:26 PM
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if Aaron does make a extra thick intake spacer and you use hard line instead of braided lines it could be done

1 stage in the spacer and 2 stages in the intake runners

I know you do not like nitrous controllers but check this out

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/nitrou...e-set-ups.html

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/nitrou...solenoids.html
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Old 01-04-2009, 02:59 PM
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You could use 6 of these for 2 stages plus 6 regular wet nozzles for 1 more stage.
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Old 01-04-2009, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by 505max94se View Post
You could use 6 of these for 2 stages plus 6 regular wet nozzles for 1 more stage.
Interesting reading there - and good suggestions, but thanks, I don't want a progressive controller or two and a pile of tubing. If there is a problem with air/fuel distribution, it's in the SSIM flow. I do have photos of the three plugs - I'll post those later.

The Cosworth IM is quite advanced in design, and might fit under the hood, although it's made for the RWD 3.5.

Here: http://www.cosworthusa.com/store/pc/...2&idproduct=89

I like its looks. Fitment could be a problem on FWD motors, though. This is Stage 2 design, by the way. The Stage 1 version would blow out before 15psi of boost, I hear.
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Old 01-12-2009, 05:53 PM
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Old plugs and new rods

I had taken some photos of the plugs from #2, #4 and #6, and I finally got around to uploading them. This is why I think the SSIM has sh*tty internal air flow - very unbalanced, from these plugs.

#2 - Super-lean insulator and ground-strap damage:



#4: Lean - note the white ring around the shell.



#6: Closest to normal for A/F = 18:1...




Carrillo CARR-bolt H-beam rods just arrived. See pix:





The parts-collecting continues - I also got a Rev-up oil pump today. Probably going to need it. The 2005 block's bore miked out at .0005"-.001" wear. Not bad... The machine shop is installing the ARP main studs to check all that crank and block alignment stuff, next. Next is CP 11:1 pistons with crown and skirt coatings applied.


.
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:05 AM
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Visualize where the fuel comes into the 3.5 rail (Closer to the back, bank 1, cylinders 5, 3, 1) And think about it- cylinders 2 & 4 are farthest from the supply line. Cylinder 2 is definitly the furthest from the supply line, cylinder 2 saw the worst detonation, you had a fuel problem that caused you to dip past 18:1, I wouldn't blame those plugs on the SSIM. But if you do and are unhappy I have a few stockers lying around and we could swap out & I'll cover the shipping charges both ways.
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by KRRZ350 View Post
Visualize where the fuel comes into the 3.5 rail (Closer to the back, bank 1, cylinders 5, 3, 1) And think about it- cylinders 2 & 4 are farthest from the supply line. Cylinder 2 is definitly the furthest from the supply line, cylinder 2 saw the worst detonation, you had a fuel problem that caused you to dip past 18:1, I wouldn't blame those plugs on the SSIM. But if you do and are unhappy I have a few stockers lying around and we could swap out & I'll cover the shipping charges both ways.
You have a point about the fuel rail - but the damage was done while spraying a 175-shot with a fuel-feed problem, so the injectors weren't supplying the extra fuel as much as the nitrous nozzles were.

But I concede that the low fuel volume could have been accompanied by low fuel pressure and that could have been what caused the funny-looking plugs.

Of course, if you follow the fuel rail around, cyl 5 is closest to the incoming line, then cyl 3, then 1, then 6, then 4 and finally cyl 2 is at the end of the front fuel rail before going through the stock damper and back to the return line. I didn't pull the SSIM and remove the rear plugs - too darn cold and windy that day, and weather since then has been terrible, so they will have to wait until we get out of single-digit temps on a weekend. I'm curious about the rear plugs, and I do have a new set to install before trying the rev-over-6500 tests.

I appreciate you stepping up and offering a manifold swap - that shows what kind of businessman you are - but the SSIM worked really well for me before this fuel issue cropped up, so I'll keep it for now. I just need to figure out what happened and why.

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Old 01-14-2009, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
You have a point about the fuel rail - but the damage was done while spraying a 175-shot with a fuel-feed problem, so the injectors weren't supplying the extra fuel as much as the nitrous nozzles were.

True in theory, but even though the fuel selenoid may have been feeding more fuel at the time, if you run out of fuel at the injectors it's still going to run lean. Try to think of it like this: your total fuel being used is still a combination of the injectors + fuel selenoid, if your injectors were to stop spraying you still don't see that total amount of fuel that you need to stay safe.

Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
cyl 2 is at the end of the front fuel rail before going through the stock damper and back to the return line......
Did you convert the 3.5 rail to a return style?

Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
I appreciate you stepping up and offering a manifold swap - that shows what kind of businessman you are
Offers there for anybody.

Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
before trying the rev-over-6500 tests.
Please please please don't, I know you want an excuse to put a built motor in but you can always sell that stock 3.5 instead of blowing it up. I myself had a similiar notion awhile back, I wanted to see if a cammed '00vi car could spin some extra revs using a 7th injector and still see some benefits, but I was skeptical that it would, then I came across some info on here that someone used a 7th injector on a boosted set-up and saw some very very poor results. But if anything, since what JimE said about the extra revs not even being beneficial on a nitrous car is good info, I'd much rather see you try to find out what kind of results you could get using your fuel selenoid to only engage after fuel cut, it would help the n/a guys out if it worked, but the thing is I know it won't, our cars are smpfi for a reason! But then again almost every maxima advancement made is a result of someone doing what others said could never be done,

IMHO, you are going to be much better off: figuring out why you ran lean, if you haven't already. Converting your car to returnless if it isn't. And using an AFC so you can tune via the maf at individual points instead of with the tape which is going to make the same effect across the board.

Also, you're going to need to go ahead and do some or all of those things in the long run anyways, I don't know if you'll see great results or be able to run the shot you want with 11:1 cr without a way to retard timing. Bulletproof rods & pistons are all well & good, but if you deto' you're still going to do damage, as you know detonation bends rods, holes pistons, melt's plugs, lifts heads, cracks heads, blow's gaskets, snaps cranks, burns valves, and I'm probably still forgeting something! Just suck it up and get an EU

Last edited by KRRZ350; 01-14-2009 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by KRRZ350 View Post
Please please please don't, I know you want an excuse to put a built motor in but you can always sell that stock 3.5 instead of blowing it up. I myself had a similiar notion awhile back, I wanted to see if a cammed '00vi car could spin some extra revs using a 7th injector and still see some benefits, but I was skeptical that it would, then I came across some info on here that someone used a 7th injector on a boosted set-up and saw some very very poor results. But if anything, since what JimE said about the extra revs not even being beneficial on a nitrous car is good info, I'd much rather see you try to find out what kind of results you could get using your fuel selenoid to only engage after fuel cut, it would help the n/a guys out if it worked, but the thing is I know it won't, our cars are smpfi for a reason! But then again almost every maxima advancement made is a result of someone doing what others said could never be done,

IMHO, you are going to be much better off: figuring out why you ran lean, if you haven't already. Converting your car to returnless if it isn't. And using an AFC so you can tune via the maf at individual points instead of with the tape which is going to make the same effect across the board.

Also, you're going to need to go ahead and do some or all of those things in the long run anyways, I don't know if you'll see great results or be able to run the shot you want with 11:1 cr without a way to retard timing. Bulletproof rods & pistons are all well & good, but if you deto' you're still going to do damage, as you know detonation bends rods, holes pistons, melt's plugs, lifts heads, cracks heads, blow's gaskets, snaps cranks, burns valves, and I'm probably still forgeting something! Just suck it up and get an EU
The built engine is already under way - I'll use the existing slow 'ol low-12s 3.5 for a test bed for a few more ideas before installation of the new one. I think that a 35-shot-nitrous/225-shot-fuel Shark blast from a third stage will test the over-6500 idea rather well. After I change the plugs... and fix the fuel feed problem. I've got a new Walbro GSS342 for the tank, a complete fuel assembly for the tank, a new regulated 13.5 volt power supply and a new 300ZXTT fuel filter to install first. Maybe dual fuel pumps and a larger line? Maybe convert to returnless and connect both lines together for larger delivered volume?

My little tune-by tape idea gave me a perfect flat 12:1 A/F all the way, with/without a 150-shot of nitrous. Why change?

.
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:27 AM
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It's been a month now.. haven't you gotten this running and blown it up yet? :P
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Old 01-16-2009, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt93SE View Post
It's been a month now.. haven't you gotten this running and blown it up yet? :P
Something about COLD temps and sand/salt covering the roads......... the weather has been too nasty for playing with my car.

So do you want to make a side bet about whether or not I can make it work?

.
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Old 01-19-2009, 01:55 PM
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More parts for next build

Regarding my next engine project, I have ordered Rev-Up oil pump, ARP main bolts, new rods, pistons, rings, and bearings. My machinist has verified that the '05 block has a straight bore even with the ARP bolts installed, and that there is no significant wear on the main and rod journals. Whew.

Rods: Carrillo H-beam with Carr fasteners.
Pistons: CP 96mm 11:1 with stronger pins, coated tops and skirts, moly rings.
Bearings: Cosworth Race bearings, incl. mains, rods, and thrust.

I also ordered several assembly lubes for cams and bearings from Jegs. Once all the parts get here, they're off to the machine shop for boring, balancing, and final assembly. This should be one healthy short block, capable of supporting at least 1000hp (what bearings are rated at). Pistons and rods are 1500hp-rated.

After this part is finished and picked up, new CNC Cosworth heads and JWT cams are next.

.

Last edited by grey99max; 01-19-2009 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 01-20-2009, 05:40 PM
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DAMN, guess we're looking at a 9sec project build
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by t6378tp View Post
DAMN, guess we're looking at a 9sec project build
Oh no - I'm just trying to build a super-strong motor to play with next season. My goal is 500WHP through the automatic, with some extra spray, like a 250-shot. And I'll use the 3.0 timing parts and the stock ECU to do it.

This is gonna be fun.......

.
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Old 02-01-2009, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by grey99max View Post
Oh no - I'm just trying to build a super-strong motor to play with next season. My goal is 500WHP through the automatic, with some extra spray, like a 250-shot. And I'll use the 3.0 timing parts and the stock ECU to do it.

This is gonna be fun.......

.
So have you tried overriding the rev limiter yet?
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Old 02-02-2009, 06:09 PM
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Plugs and Pistons, Oh My !

I've been kinda under the weather lately - three weeks of respiratory flu takes its toll. But, last Saturday the temp got up to 73*, so I went outside and dug into the car for a few hours. First thing was to pull off the intake manifold and change out the rear plugs, then the front plugs. I had looked at the front plugs a few weeks back, and found them very lean. Not so with the rears. (seen in the rear).



So what's up with this? Rich in the rear - lean in the front. ?? I changed out the fuel rail, since I had a spare. The old one looked normal, but who knows?



I didn't have time that day to finish up the intake install, so testing out the fuel pump and the rest will have to wait.

I did get the coated CP pistons today, along with the stronger wrist pins and rings. Here is an assembled CP piston-Carrillo rod that is going into my next engine build.






I'm going to deliver the engine parts to my machinist this week.

.
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Old 02-03-2009, 01:50 PM
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I'm surprised the wrist pins aren't longer to help spread the forces across the dome of the piston a bit more.... :shrug:
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Old 02-03-2009, 03:15 PM
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Get rid of the IM. Go with the Z33 IM, it distributes air to the cylinders more evenly
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Old 02-03-2009, 04:41 PM
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Those Carrillo's look identical to my eagles.
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Matt93SE View Post
I'm surprised the wrist pins aren't longer to help spread the forces across the dome of the piston a bit more.... :shrug:
They're the normal length. The clips weren't in.




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Old 02-03-2009, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by nismology View Post
Those Carrillo's look identical to my eagles.
Well, looks can be deceiving....
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevlo911 View Post
Get rid of the IM. Go with the Z33 IM, it distributes air to the cylinders more evenly
Kinetix or Cosworth instead? Actually, the plugs used to look just fine - and identical - until something went wrong with the fuel delivery.

This pix shows that I have the regulator set up as a bypass, going through the 300ZXTT filter and regulator back through the return line. I can install two Walbro 255lph pumps in the tank and use both lines to bring fuel up front, and "Y" together through the regulator for a returnless system - with double the volume.





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Old 02-03-2009, 07:36 PM
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how do the plugs look after some n/a passes
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by t6378tp View Post
how do the plugs look after some n/a passes
Usually they look just like the rear plug at the right side of the photo. Until lately, that is.......
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Old 02-04-2009, 04:39 PM
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werd the front bank is leaning out n/a also, well you can rule out the nitrous system

did you ever solve the voltage problem
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Old 02-04-2009, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by t6378tp View Post
werd the front bank is leaning out n/a also, well you can rule out the nitrous system

did you ever solve the voltage problem
I haven't looked for it yet - maybe this weekend. The weather has been harsh.
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:22 PM
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a fellow org member said maybe some debris/dirt/teflon tape got in the rail and clogged the front bank or injectors
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Old 02-05-2009, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by t6378tp View Post
a fellow org member said maybe some debris/dirt/teflon tape got in the rail and clogged the front bank or injectors
Agreed - that's why I swapped it out with another. I don't use teflon tape - just locktite - but I had changed the fuel filter sometime before I started having lean issues.

Before I finish the IM re-install, I'm going to put a remote-control switch on the fuel pump, open up the feed to the fuel rail, and do some flow checks on the fuel system. Without starting the engine, of course.
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:58 AM
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Did you ever try this? I Purged thru my Motor Yesterday and instantly went from 3k RPMS to 7500RPMS pretty weird how my Rev limiter comes and goes....Heres a Video of when it first tripped out on me just motor.

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Old 02-21-2014, 01:34 AM
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2009 was a good year.
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:53 AM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by TravisCadello View Post
Did you ever try this? I Purged thru my Motor Yesterday and instantly went from 3k RPMS to 7500RPMS pretty weird how my Rev limiter comes and goes....Heres a Video of when it first tripped out on me just motor.

Oh Hell No ! Never purge into your engine - that's like using # 9999 jets to spray with. You'll be a basket case if you do this - you'll be using a basket to gather up all the engine parts from the explosion... Super lean condition instantly...
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