I've been having an ongoing debate with myself about which form of boost would suit what I would like the best. One week I'm set to get a turbo kit, the next its a supercharger.

I'm not looking to make killer power. A mid to high 13 second car on street tires would be great. I would think somewhere around the 250hp range should do that. So, I don't need a turbo kit for the hugh numbers or anything. I also have no desire to be one of the first X people to have a turbo or anything, and actcually prefer the huge amount of knowledge regarding the SC kit to the turbos.

However, for about $4,200 (hlh's) I would get just about everything I need an then some (full 3" exhaust, intercooler). Figuring I can get the SC kit new for about $3,400, but the main drawbacks are the lack of the full exhaust and the intercooler. However, I shouldn't need the 3" exhaust to get to the levels that I would like, and the same goes with the intercooler.

Right now I'm leaning towards the SC. I do realize that there will be extra costs associated with each kit (clutch, etc), but those would have to be done either way.

My impression right now is that the SC would be more long-term work (maintenance), but that doesn't bother me in the least. In addition, I will be installing either kit that I decide on. One way or the other, I'm not going to make a purchase until spring. I have no desire to install something like this in the winter if I don't have to.

Any suggestions? Anyone want to help me make up my mind? Anyone selling a used SC kit for a 99?

 

another thing to consider is that if your blower fails on the supercharger your car will die, but if your turbo goes the car will still run. But then again turbos have really not been fully proven reliable yet so kind of a toss up.
Ryan

 

Which brings up another question of mine. If the SC fails and needs repair, what has to be uninstalled for the car to run properly?

Of course the blower and a different belt. Then I would assume you could take off the piping and install a normal intake? Can you leave the FMU in place? Do you have to uninstall everything?

 

Yes you can leave all the fuel stuff hooked up.

One thing to remember is that a SC is a bit easier to drive because the boost is linear, a turbo will hit hard when the turbo spools. A boost controller will help on a turbo some what.

 

Good point. Because of a recent job change I now drive almost 95% around town (where as I drove about 95% highway before), and don't need the power then. Actcually, NA power is more than enough with the way that people drive around here.

 

Not that I'm Biased or anything , I would go S/C for Daily driving. Do you have any snow either? This may affect your decision... MAYBE.

 

BTW,

What did you mean by this?
If you go S/C would you get a full exhaust? I talked w/ Stillen and they do not RECOMMEND using a y pipe. One would think that w/ more air coming in, more should go out...right? (Courtesy of Cutlr7 )

 

i think turbo is better for normal driving.. one reason i chose nigel's kit is because it spools late.. this gives me way enough time to get traction.. and when its snowing or raining.. i don't have to worry about hitting full boost.. its like this..

the a 10 PSI SC Max spools little after 2000 rpms.. with the same horspower you can have a 6 PSI turbo max that spools at 4000 grand (Nigel's kit) that gives you way more traction... but again this is just me..

you say way more SC knowledge on this board.. but Turbo's are so generic.. you could basically ask a Supra or DSM guy for help on yoru turbo.. its bascially just .. turbo, exhaust and intake pipes, oil lines and vacuum lines.. its just so damn basic.. any turbo head could give you info on it..

i know deals are going on the Stillen SC for you year for 3500.. but the list price for the 99 - 2k1 SC kit is $3940 .. i mean with that money you might as well get a turbo kit..

and dolar for dolar.. if you took off the extra stuff you get with the turbo kit.. catback.. intercooler.. you would probably end up cheaper than the stillen kit..

 

I already have a full 2.5" aftermarket exhaust (cattman Y, test pipe, apexi ws catback), so I don't _need_ an exhaust. However, with hlh's kit I would get a 3" exhaust.

 

I'm not worried about traction or drivability. Yes, I get a lot of snow up here, but I can deal with that. In either case, SC or turbo, if you drive like an old lady, you shouldn't see much boost, if any.

The way you described Nigel's kit is exactly what I don't want. I'd like a boost in power through more of the power band. I'd like to have a little extra kick driving around without having to take it to the redline to see the gains. hlh calims that his kit boosts sooner, so I think if I went turbo that would be the way for me to go.

Yeah, but right now there isn't a lot of long term knowledge about turbo issues with a Maxima right now. Of course TurboMax has had his for a while, but he's also had problems.

I've already gotten a quote of $3450 just for asking...no negotiating at all. For a new SC kit, I'd be happy with that. I think because its a specific kit for the 99's, they don't move very well, and people may be looking to get rid of them.

I realize that there is extra value in the turbo kit, but I'm not sure I need any of it to get where I want to go. And, if I don't need it, I don't want to pay for it, hence my delima. An intercooler would be great, but its not necessary to make the power that I'm going to be shooting for.

 

I C

 

you can tell him you don't want it and he will take it out the price

 

Good point.

 

well since i got a stick shift.. i love nigel's kit.. if i want boost i can launch at 4000 grand.. if i don't.. i launch at 2000 grand.. i can have my N/A power.. great for the track.. i drove delio's car at the track and the boost kicked in and fcked me up.. i was scared sh!tless..


don't use Turbomax's issues as golden.. Nigel's kit is fine.. Hal's kit is fine.. Turbo Max is Turbo Max.. you can't use his problems as the same problems other turbo maxima's will have.. the only problems turbo's usually have that they need rebuilding at about 60k.. and unlike SC.. once the turbo goes.. you can still drive.. don't let me do a search on the Supercharger problems here ..

ok.. well it seems you are set on getting an SC.. so i guess thats what you will get.. but do notice that Deac and Kev sold their SC's.. and they will have more going from SC to Turbo..

an intercooler will help you.. more than hurt you.. but ow well..

 

I'm well aware of the SC problems. But, I do like that they're documented here.

No, I'm not set on anything, but I have priced both.

I realize that...just don't know if I need it or if its worth it.

 

I just typed a long post and my computer crashed , so here I go again...

I am getting a home equity loan soon to pay off some credit cards, I floated the idea of a turbo/supercharger past the boss (AKA my Wife) and she did not object . I am still not sure if I want to go FI but I am giving it serious consideration. I just spent several hours searching and reading the archives. It sounds like I am looking for something similer to what ejj wants.

From my research I know a smaller turbo will spool faster but at the expense of overall and high end power. A smaller turbo would be fine for me since I am not looking to put down huge horespower numbers. I want the oppisite of what Sprintmax wants, I do not want to have to launch at 4000 RPMs to feel the power. It sounds like hlhs kit would suite my needs better then Nigels (You guys have to name these kits ).

I would like to have power available almost instantly from 2-3K RPMs and up, even if I just mash the gas pedal from a roll. Would a supercharger be more suited to this or is it an unrelistic expectation for either? If I did go with the SC I would not want to go smaller than the 3.25 pully (~9 PSI) and after looking at this dyno, it is hard to give any consideration to a SC. I belive that dyno is for Nigels kit, if the hlh kit makes power sooner but less overall power that would even be more suited to what I want. Are there any dynos of the Hlh kit at different boost levels?

It looks like the Hlh kit would give me just about everthing I need for around $4000, the Stillen SC is a little cheaper but by the time I paid for all the extras the cost would be close. Can I get away without an intercooler if I plan to keep the boost levels modest (~4PSI)? Are there other disadvantages besides less power without an IC? Could I add one in later or would the pipeing be different without an IC.

Even though the pully problem has been fixed it still seems like the problem with belts shredding would be an annoyance. I would like to keep this car as a year round daily driver, is that a problem for a lightly boosted car? I also got the impression that a SC put more strain and wear on the motor since it is a load on the motor at all times, should this be a consideration or is it not that big of a problem?

 

I am in the same situation. I too have a 99 and am looking to boost small and work my way up. You can start off non-intercooled at first and add one later. That is kind of what I am looking at doing right now. But I can't decide on a kit

 

Anachronism,
-Almost all turbo chargers that I've seen advertised on here have a Intercooler. I think you can do that, but since you're running off exhaust to spin the turbine, I would recommend you do it right from the beginning.
-True, the S/C puts a strain on the motor, but it's throughout the power band. You don't get as much Jolt as you do w/ a turbo when it kicks in. I talked w/ a few stillen reps (and that doesn't make it acurrate) and with Paul at Avalon Racing, and they all said that if you don't go crazy w/ pulleys they shouldn't be a problem. I, myself, just bought the ASP aluminum pulleys so I don't have to worry AS MUCH abt. melting ones. There is the issue of belts shredding, but proper maintanence should help reduce this... not to mention not riding around w/ your foot in the floor all the time (which I will be doing). The impression I got w/ the S/C is that it's a good kit, and if you drive correctly, it will work just fine w/ minimal problems. When you start messing w/ it is when the problems start to come up. Again, I don't know if that's entirely true, but that's the impression I got. The guys as stillen said that they built that kit for people who want a little more out, but w/ the daily driver in mind.

Hope this helps, that's why i went S/C. Also w/ a Turbo, you have BIGGER problems if/when they come up (also something I heard).

 

Some of my (unbiased thoughts ):

Supercharger has been proven unreliable . Don't the pullies melt and don't they need rebuild after like two years or something? It ain't cheap for a rebuild either.

My turbo kit hasn't been proven yet (nor has anyone else's) but rebuilds are relatively inexpensive and turbos are easy to come by-both new and used. Turbo design noawdays is very good. Notice how a lot of newer cars are putting in turbos (Mazda Prot, Ford Focus, Passat, Audi, Subaru WRX, Mitsubishi Evo) ... a year ago there were like only one or two.

Turbo choices are HUGE! My head spins at all the different options you can have. This can actually give you a headache! It depends on how fast you want to spool - small turbo T3 for quick spool, lower power (no matter what other people say - show me a dyno!). T4 or bigger, slower spool, higher power, ballbearing turbos for quicker spool, Different sized A/Rs and compressors, the list is endless! If you don't like the turbo you can sell it pretty easily since they are so generic and just buy a different one!

If you want something straightforward and something you don't have to think about, get the S/C and a couple of pullies.

If you do a lot of city driving, get a smaller turbo for quick spool and a boost controller, press a button to up the boost for the track or highway.

Yes, the turbo kits are more expensive, but $/HP, they are by far the cheapest. PLUS, the prices will be coming down very soon , email me for more info!

 

turbo or s/c




i think everyone here has noticed that must of the owners of the turbo kits use to have a s/c.

 

I am not talking about the strain of the motor creating power when you open the throttle. AFAIK forcing the motor to create X horsepower should put about the same amount of strain on the motor no matter how you do it.

I was thinking about the fact that the SC runs off a belt and is always using horsepower even when driving normally. Strictly an example - If your SCed Max makes an extra 70 HP the engine is forced to put out an extra 100 HP but the SC uses 30 of it. Even when you are driving normally the SC will be eating up power, to me (as far as strain on the engine) it would be like towing a trailer around all the time. The turbo does eat up some power because it restricts the exhaust but as I understand it it is much less than a SC.

 

Yes and no.

If you BOV is set so at high vacume (over 5hg) its venting air the drain the SC causes is VERY low, like you AC compressor when its off. However is you have the BOV set so it dosent vent then yes you are putting extra strain on your motor. I get 26-28mpg on the hwy with larger injectors, etc... so its not that much of a strain at all. But yes a turbo does eat less power per lb of boost than a SC because it uses the force of the expanding exhaust gases to drive the impellers which is just lost energy otherwise.

 

Oh, so the the BOV vents the boost/psi until you need it and therefore the SC is not really under a load in normal driving? I guess you can set the BOV to open at different throttle positions depending on when you want the boost to kick in? Do turbos work he same way?

 

Yes, exactly. You can set the BOV so it opens at different manifold vacume levels. I'm dot quite sure how turbos work but i think the waste gate serves that function.

 

Sounds strange to me! The wastegate is the primary way of controlling boost level. The wastegate opens allowing exhaust gas to pass through something other than the turbo. The BOV's primary use is not for controlling boost levels (although it has been used for this purpose in the past) but rather when the Throttle closes, vacuum in the plenum, triggers the BOV to open, to prevent boost pressure building up in the charge pipes. Pressure build up can slow the compressor wheel and potentially cause long term damage. The HKS SSQ BOV senses pressure differences only and opens when it senses a difference (settable) and can be used in high or low boost applications without adjustment. I had thought S/C used it for the same purpose.

 

I think you misunderstood?

A SC is allways moving air, the BOV just vents the extra air when the throttle is closed or at a low throttle positions. At low throttle positions the vacume after the TB pulls the BOV valve open and the positive pressure before the TB also pushs the BOV valve open. When you go to WOT the BOV closed because the pressure difference before and after the TB is gone and the internal spring pushes the BOV valve closed. It's like a waste gate for a SC.

The HKS SSQ will only open when their is a pressure fluctuation, it will not stay open when their is vacume in the manifold and no vacume in the boost piping, it will be closed. Vortech will void your waranty if you use it withone of their blowers.