I saw Hal's turbo kit in action on Bags533's car today. Keep in mind that my comments do not reflect the opinions of the cars owner or the management and staff of Maxima.org.

Ok, pics. Please excuse cardomain for cutting the quality and adding the logo.

Here's an overview of the kit, as installed by the shop Hal picked. It's just generally messy and not very well thought out. (That oil supply line is made from steel brake line.)

.


Here's a close up of the compressor side of the turbo. Notice the large gouge in the casting just below the Turbonetics logo. There's no way this was a new unit when installed.

 

Initially, the shop was going to leave the stock crankcase vent in place. When they realized this wasn't right, this was the solution:


Bags had his local shop install this heat shield so the exhaust downpipe wouldn't melt the O2 sensor wiring.


Bags had to install this header wrap himself after adjacent wiring did melt. You can also see where his local shop had to reweld the downpipe to it's flange on the turbo because the original welds were leaking.

 

Either these fitting are too big, or these hoses are too small. Either way, it's crappy workmanship.


Here, you can see how close the charge pipes are to the radiator, requiring removal of the OEM fans. Yes, that pipe is touching the lower radiator hose


Here's the aftermarket fan that replaced the TWO factory fans.

 

During the demo ride, all was going well. Then we noticed there was no boost. Here's what the guage showed (WOT at 90mph).


One of the charge pipes had blown off. This pipe hitting the lower radiator hose probably wont help keep it in place.


Ah, here we see a common pastime of the typical customer of Hal's "Kit."

 

Ouch, low blows.........

Edit: Hal's new shop that is now installing turbos better get mine right when the time comes because there is no way in hell I am driving all the way out there again for minor/major repairs.....

 

I feel bad for you Kirk. Spending all that money and got a crappy install job.

 

Personally, I would go back and have them re-install a whole new kit after seeing that workmanship. Even just looking at the turbo kit, you can tell they bogged down and bought a re-man. turbo. Hal, you need to give "your shop" a call/visit and see what is going on over there.

 

the shop is not here it is in Kentucky and thats a 6 hour drive

 

that looks really sh!ty..... I feel bad for ya bags

why is the FMU zip-tied to that hose???

it looks more like a college lab experiment then a professional shop install.

 

Funny thing is, that all looks familiar to my PFI setup too.

Cracked pipe
charge pipe disconnected ( you need to carry around some ethernet cabling)
charge pipe hitting radiator hose (and if I'm not perfectly careful when attaching it also hits the valve on the a/c line)
In my case it was 3/4 tubing for 5/8" barbed fitting with 3/4" at other end.
And on it goes...

I do like the support bracket welded to the charge pipe that looks like it connects to the spare threaded opening by the valve cover. It would have kept me from having the blow-off of my charge pipe at the throttle body.

I like having boost, I just don't like what I went through to get it. I think anyone could have any of the above problems. I can provide pics of what appear to be sloppy welds, things touching that shouldn't and so on and so forth.

Anyhow, I wouldn't expect any fewer problems just because it's done at a shop. That's the primary reason I don't take my car anywhere for anything other than to the guy who helped Brian Catts (Cattman) prototype and spec the Quaife for tranny work and a great shop for alignments. They don't care about your car as much as you do. If they can book 8 hours of labor for 5 hours of work, you bet your sweet @$$ they're gonna do it and take whatever shortcuts possible to get there.

 

This is true too never thoguht of it like that....

-previous post edited

 

the truth shall set you free...

 

Let's see if Hal comes here and step up to the plate like a man and fix the problem or give everyone an attitude.

Words out now so if this is what type of business he's going to give the good people on the org, he won't be selling shyte on the org anymore. I'll delete all of the turbo for sale threads.

 

ouch

 

Dayummm - what's with the hostility? Why is he held personally accountable and responsible for what the guys at the shop did or didn't do? I'd be just as ticked as the next guy but why aren't you going to hold Nigel personally accountable, delete all of his threads and keep him from selling anything on the .org? I had the same issues, if not more with my PFI kit. Sprints comment was to take what I had written and multiply it by 3 but no action there?
See other turbo thread

You must have a mission or vendetta or whatever for whatever reason, but don't disguise such rash and harsh action as being in defense of the Maxima.org community.

 

yes...i feel there is a personal vendetta of sort or something amongst a "group" against hal and his turbo kit...

 

Who's hostile? My man Bags just got burned.

Well maybe more people should step up to the plate when they have issues with products and customer service. They should also let people know if people should or shouldn't deal with someone and why.
Shyte ****es me off because I was duped in the past for a lot of money and people shouldn't get away with it. I feel the same about anyone who wants to sell on the org and not back what they sell so don't try to make me out to be one sided. If I was all over the turbo threads and had seen the past arguments about the problems people were having, I probably would have reacted the same. Furthermore, I've never seen Nigel giving people a hard time here.

 

a big fat I feel bad for bags....especially in that pic of him(if thats him) in his engine on the side of the road.... I KNOW he does not feel he got even close to what he thought he was getting.

same for you joa, when I saw that cat5 cable tied to your intake...I was like

 

i hope no one ever produce anything for the maxima no more...in the end...it seems to me the producer/manufacturer get burn one way or the other...yes if it's a manufacturer defect then it should be handled between the seller and consumer...if it was a install defect then it should be taken up w/ the installer not the seller...

 

Bags was Hal's customer and Hal was the "shop's" customer. Therefore all of Bags problems should be solved by Hal. End of story.

 

You know that's not the way you truely feel. I think you want people to produce at least good quality products for the Max and stand behind they're stuff no matter what issues arise after the sale.

 

Hi,
Yes we have had a few problems with Kirk's car, and I have apologized to him for this and have been working with him on every single issue, doing everything within my power. I do stand behind my products, and work to make everything right. I am very saddened that he was the first and only customer that's car has been done without me meeting them or seeing the car, and in this situation it frustrates me as I was not able to basically check over some of issues we have seen here. Infact, these are the best pictures I have personally even seen of his kit so far. This is of course no excuse for the issues we have here, which is why I have been doing everything I can to make it right... paying for overnight shipping on everything to/from , reimbursing him for any parts he has been getting (check for shipping, oil return line and oil pan) and am sending header wrap and proper sized T's for those vacuum lines (which I had not seen/heard about until this post). This was not the type of service I like to have my name on, granted yes little things are almost expected when you are customly (if thats a word haha) greatly raise the hp of any car, which is why you see problems arrising even with Stillen S/C kits. Has kirk/bags been on here and posted that i was terrible to deal with and unhelpful and he hates me? no, just as joaquink had problems with nigel's kit , but the issues get worked through and all is well as long as things are made proper.

(In regards to the specific shop doing Kirk's build/install, I am no longer contracted with them for turbo kits after this incident other than working to make things right for Kirk=Bags)

And yes there most definately is a "group" against myself and my kit..
(lots of, but not all of, the moderators)
I kind of enjoy it though haha

And yes cumalittle, sometimes I wish there was no aftermarket as they all do get ragged on greatly (some for good reasons, some not), I have contemplated just dropping the kit and publishing extremely detailed instructions and parts list for my kit to the public instead, considering I make almost no money off of the setups anyways - I do it more as a hobby and to help people out, not as a business or source of any income etc.

The sickening part is no one appreciates anything, ever. I can spend an afternoon for a person who lives near me doing a spring and mevi install on their car for free just to help hookup another maxima owner, and never receive a thank you or anything, just an "oh my car's tight, later."

 

 

I do not have any personal vendetta against Hal. But, I've heard about nothing but problems with both of the "kits" on the market. I had no idea what it was like until I saw it for myself today.

On one hand I applaud both Nigel and Hal for putting up their own $$ for initial R&D to get more boosted Maximas on the road. But, it seems both of them have tried to bring products to market before they were ready.

 

This is very interesting, sorry to hear Baggy/Hal/Joa.

All In all, everyone gets shafted at one point or another, and I was not expecting something like that for baggs.

 

Thanks for clearing that up, because reading your post, it appears that you have a serious problem with only Hal's kit.

There's an easy solution to all those problems...buy a SC.

 

scaredy cat

 

Okay, I interpreted this, "Words out now so if this is what type of business he's going to give the good people on the org, he won't be selling shyte on the org anymore. I'll delete all of the turbo for sale threads. " as hostility. Perhaps knee-jerk is more appropriate. What I wanted to get across was that it does seem extreme and one-sided to me given what others have experienced with another option.

Quote:

Well maybe more people should step up to the plate when they have issues with products and customer service. They should also let people know if people should or shouldn't deal with someone and why.

I agree 99%. I decided to handle my issues outside the forums with Nigel, Kevin, and Alex. Why? In part because I didn't want to alienate PFI and/or Nigel while I was in the process of installing and testing and needing their help. We may have that as a contributing factor to others not stepping up to the plate. I did send a detailed e-mail to Nigel on 3/28, a few days after completing the majority of the project, with what I thought was wrong, what must be corrected, what was wrong with the process and so forth.

Quote:

Shyte ****es me off because I was duped in the past for a lot of money and people shouldn't get away with it. I feel the same about anyone who wants to sell on the org and not back what they sell so don't try to make me out to be one sided. If I was all over the turbo threads and had seen the past arguments about the problems people were having, I probably would have reacted the same.

I'm guessing you got burned on the MEVI deal from that guy in Bahrain. That sucks and I'm glad I wasn't part of the group that got screwed. But two things here; 1, it's not fair to extrapolate your experiences to the rest of the distributors who may or may not have had a chance to address their situations off the .org. 2, it's totally different to pay for something and get nothing at all in return than it is to pay for something and get something that appears to be less than 100% what was promised. Let's give them a chance to work this out before you go deleting posts and so on.

Quote:

Furthermore, I've never seen Nigel giving people a hard time here.

Nigel is very nice. I don't see anything different from Hal in the posts I've read or e-mails we've exchanged.

 

in your case you may want to see about buying a vq30deT maxima (or whatever they are called there) and having it imported... because honestly I think this is about the only way you are going to get 100% factory turbo maxima, buying one. I have even had issues with HKS's turbo manifolds not fitting vehicles they were made for, and that is HKS..

ejj, who says s/c is the solution to problems ? have you read any of the posts about issues, after issue, after belt shredding, after rebuild, etc of stilen sc?

 

At least I got mine installed in a weekend without any major problem!

To be honest, I don't think any of the "problems" that Ben has pointed out are that big of a deal. When I was considering a turbo kit, this is the kind of stuff that I knew I'd be in for. Without a professionally made kit, all you turbo guys had to know that you were in for this kind of crap. At least I get the impression that Kev and Sprint knew...

The turbo kits are a great idea, and they'll be a very common, easy, and wonderful kit, once a reputable company starts mass producing them with some level of quality control. Until then, SC's rock!

 

 

If you want a kit that will bolt up without the headaches of the "development stage" that both turbo kits are in right now, its the only way to go. I know, I have one.

I was considering turbo's (yours specifically), but decided against them.

 

agreed.
to say it is headache free(not saying that you did, just addressing it in general) though, I dont know. Some are some aren't is the impression I have, seeing people who carry tools with them on trips incase a belt shreds or whatnot (sorry i dont know the sc lingo.) granted there are many more sc than turbo running and they are good setups no doubt!

 

as an outsider lookin in and reading...i feel some of u are treating hal differently then nigel as a turbo producer...guess hal should have a gentlemen secrecy too...hal's kit is not perfect nor is nigels from wat i've read...y don't some of u guyz exploit his problems too???and deezo and mzmtg from wat i've read maybe it came out wrong or maybe it didnt'...but seem like u guyz have a thing against hal big time...and i don't knoe hal or nigel on a personal level so i'm not being bias watsoever...

 

A perfect example is the lower charge pipe coming off. It's always going to come off. The upper pipe is bolted to the engine and the lower pipe hits the radiator hose. As the engine moves under acceleration, it's going to work the pipe loose.

This needs to be redesigned.

As a customer, I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect everything to fit right in and have no leaks, no meltin wores, no hoses coming apart.




I know that most people think it's a bad example, but... One of my friends has a Greddy turbo kit on his 99 Civic. It bolted right up and has given him no problems. It also cost about $3500 with the intercooler.

That's what I would expect if I was to fork out the cash for boost. Neither of the turbo kits on the market are that good and even Stillen's SC kit isnt that good.

 

I havent seen Nigel's kit in person, nor have I spoken to any of his customers. For these reasons, I have not commented.

 

so i should be expecting the same/fair critique once u do???

 

no. if you saw that i would be shocked. its called a non-disclosure or gentlemans agreement haha

and mzmtg, I am sure you can find a stillen s/c maxima customer, and I have a turbo customer all that would compare to the 1 civic you posted about. and yes, if there were 50,000 maxima's buying turbo kits I am sure you would see greddy kits etc being made for them. and what is the silicone in intercooler piping made to do , flex ask greddy what their development cost is for a civic turbo kit, ask nigel or myself if we can afford to spend that very high$ and not make it up, and if we say yes then slap us for being stupid. See if you could ever make that back selling the few maxima turbo kits that get sold? if you could, why has greddy not done this?

there is a difference between constructive criticism which I am happy to hear (especially emailed, etc) or even informing the public of things, and, constantly bashing and one-sided calling things out to make a scene.. oh and why didnt you post the rest of the story of all the issues from above, and what all is going on with them? you posted this post as if everything was wrong and nothing was to be worked out and i just totally told kirk screw off, this is 100% opposite of the truth. instead of complaining and and all you do, why not do something about it? "as a customer" why have you not made your own "perfect bolton kit, 100% fitment and NO problems, for 3500$" and put pfi/nigel and myself completely out of business? ?

 

Errr... I sent you a fairly long e-mail regarding this topic in response to your post: your post.

 

Quoted Message:
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Originally posted by mzmtg


I havent seen Nigel's kit in person, nor have I spoken to any of his customers. For these reasons, I have not commented.
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Errr... I sent you a fairly long e-mail regarding this topic in response to your post: your post.

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errr...uh oh!!!!