Question about bolts on the flywheel.. do you need all of them?? :wall:
11-23-2003, 08:07 PM
#1
Question about bolts on the flywheel.. do you need all of them?? :wall:
I stripped the threads on the engine where the flywheel lines up.. JUST one. I made a decision NOT to tap it and put in a larger bolt. So I will be rolling on 7 out of 8 bolts.
I "think" it should be ok. I weighed all my options and I liked this one the best
See this pic... The arrow points to the screw I am missing.
I "think" it should be ok. I weighed all my options and I liked this one the best
See this pic... The arrow points to the screw I am missing.
11-23-2003, 08:34 PM
#2
It's not a good thing, especially since you're boosted Kirk. That sucker has 8 points of reinforcement/contact for a reason...the TQ that the engine puts out (magnified by the fact that you're boosted as well). It's got to have all 8 in order to be fully reliable (and this isn't just me being overkill and **** retentive). I'll post some pictures I have of one of my turboed VW's flywheel when it literally blasted off due to a slight error when installing it originally...it's not pretty in the least. And your engine is making a hell of a lot more TQ than my aircooled VW was...(like 335 to my 210).
11-23-2003, 08:45 PM
#3
After seeing my friends high hp dsm flywheel (fidanza) blow up a couple weeks ago and destroy everything including his block.. shooting the pressure partially through his hood, and leaving parts sticking down into the pavement road..
I would be careful about everything in that area.
I would be careful about everything in that area.
11-23-2003, 08:48 PM
#4
Well Kirk, I guess since you got the tranny already on there, I guess you proceeding with your plan. I guess we gonna find out how much its going to hold up.
Or we can take the tranny back off, and re-thread the one hole.
Dixit
Or we can take the tranny back off, and re-thread the one hole.
Dixit
11-23-2003, 09:04 PM
#5
Originally Posted by Quicksilver
It's not a good thing, especially since you're boosted Kirk. That sucker has 8 points of reinforcement/contact for a reason...the TQ that the engine puts out (magnified by the fact that you're boosted as well). It's got to have all 8 in order to be fully reliable (and this isn't just me being overkill and **** retentive). I'll post some pictures I have of one of my turboed VW's flywheel when it literally blasted off due to a slight error when installing it originally...it's not pretty in the least. And your engine is making a hell of a lot more TQ than my aircooled VW was...(like 335 to my 210).
Justin, I trust you 110%. Your VERY knowledgeable about these things.
SO you win.
And I think your correct. It will only set me back 1 day if I do it now.
It could set me back 1 transmission and flywheel and clutch.
BTW are you busy friday?
( or thursday, sunday )IF you have the time I would BE VERY GRATEFUL.
I have never tapped anythign and I need the TAP.
The BIG question in my mind is, can the flywheel have a BIGGER bolt.. the hole is not that large.
But PM me/email me if you get a chance
11-24-2003, 05:39 AM
#6
I think you should take the engine back out and swap crank shafts. 
Seriously, I wouldn't use 7 bolts. If you wanted to be really daring I'd use 4, skipping every other hole. That way the load would be evenly distributed unlike with an odd number. I'd re-tap that hole.
Seriously, I wouldn't use 7 bolts. If you wanted to be really daring I'd use 4, skipping every other hole. That way the load would be evenly distributed unlike with an odd number. I'd re-tap that hole.
11-24-2003, 06:11 AM
#7
Originally Posted by bags533
The BIG question in my mind is, can the flywheel have a BIGGER bolt.. the hole is not that large.
Or you can drill and tap for a keensert and reuse the original bolt.
11-24-2003, 12:49 PM
#9
Originally Posted by Stephen Max
If you use a bigger bolt you are going to have an imbalance unless you also tap a bigger hole diametrically opposite to keep the crank balanced. Admittedly, the radius to the bolt circle is pretty small, but at high rpm the imbalance load may be large enough to feel. (Imbalance load, F = mrw^2, where m is the imbalance mass, r is the radius to the bolt circle, and w is the rotational speed in radians per second. In your case the imbalance mass is going to be the difference in the mass between the original bolt and the larger bolt. If you use a shorter replacement bolt, maybe you can keep the difference in mass small enough to be negligible.)
Or you can drill and tap for a keensert and reuse the original bolt.
Or you can drill and tap for a keensert and reuse the original bolt.
Keensert?
I'll take a stab and guess it's something I insert into the current hole and then insert the screr into it?
IS that the best fix?
I was curious as to what the best fix is?
And BTW man you make my head hurt with the information you put out... BUT THANKS
11-24-2003, 12:57 PM
#10
Originally Posted by bags533
Keensert?
I'll take a stab and guess it's something I insert into the current hole and then insert the screr into it?
IS that the best fix?
I was curious as to what the best fix is?
And BTW man you make my head hurt with the information you put out... BUT THANKS
I'll take a stab and guess it's something I insert into the current hole and then insert the screr into it?
IS that the best fix?
I was curious as to what the best fix is?
And BTW man you make my head hurt with the information you put out... BUT THANKS
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...UTF-8%26sa%3DN
11-24-2003, 01:12 PM
#11
Originally Posted by bags533
I was curious as to what the best fix is?
Originally Posted by ejj
I think you should take the engine back out and swap crank shafts.
How'd you strip it? I didn't use a torque wrench (never do
), but IIRC those take a lot of torque. Cross thread it?
11-24-2003, 01:44 PM
#13
Originally Posted by BigDogJonx
As I mentioned to Kirk, tapping is going to be an issue cause the crank is forged. Not going to be easy to tap it.
Dixit
Dixit
11-24-2003, 01:50 PM
#15
You "could" probably run it without the bolt. It's the balancing I'd be worried about. W/o the bolt, it's unbalanced. With a bigger bolt, it's unbalanced. I'd just do a helicoil if you can. Make sure it's designed to torque to that amount though. Flywheel bolts are torqued to something like 80ftlbs?
11-24-2003, 03:31 PM
#16
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
You "could" probably run it without the bolt. It's the balancing I'd be worried about. W/o the bolt, it's unbalanced. With a bigger bolt, it's unbalanced. I'd just do a helicoil if you can. Make sure it's designed to torque to that amount though. Flywheel bolts are torqued to something like 80ftlbs?
Hell, it might be higher than that...I torque my wheels to 85 ft/lbs...
I'll check the ESM for my VQ35 and see what it says...
EDIT-- Looks like 83-93 ft/lbs a bolt...but that's on my engine. I doubt he got that high without using a TQ wrench...
11-24-2003, 03:44 PM
#17
11-24-2003, 03:47 PM
#19
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Hmmm...that has me wondering if my ESM is stating Nm or ft/lb TQ...
Now that I look at it more, it's the same numbers for 3rd-5th Gen flywheels...
hehe
11-24-2003, 05:50 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by bijan gxe
He went hog wild w/ Jaimes air - torque gun
He stripped one. How about I snapped two bolts into my fathers Ford F150 flywheel. Lucky the flywheel is threaded all the way thru so i was able to spin the bolt with a small flat screwdriver. I take it your going to drop that tranny?
Well someone else snapped a bolt into his flywheel too. Good thing Eric didnt bring that small black Ingorsoll gun with 600lbs of torque
youd snapped a couple. My snap-on gun only has 550lbs of torque. The older it gets the stronger it gets. I guess is like the owner 
11-24-2003, 06:09 PM
#25
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
OH a no-no. You should ALWAYS make sure the bolt(s) are hand threaded before going to town on the air gun.
They were....
and the gun CAN'T have more than 50 Ft lbs of TQ...
I can tighten the bolts more than the gun I was using
It could have been stripped BEFORE I got to it.
Maybe/maybe not... No longer my concern.
And BTW bijan.. it was not jay's gun
And I did ALL 8 the same way.
SO rather than pull the motor BACK out and swap crankshafts... will the helicoil hold?
Sounds like a good idea to me.
THANKS for all the help and suggestions...
11-24-2003, 06:18 PM
#26
Kirk, swapping the cranks basically mean removing the upper oil pan like I did on your other one and then removing the crankshaft main support. Remember those special bolts? We need to remove all the reverse star bolts.
Wait...... it doesnt end there either....
Got to remove the timing cover and chain, ALSO gotta remove both HEADS as well. So basically this is an ENTIRE teardown to get it off.
Not sure what your plans on that is. We talking about basically tearing the entire **** apart.
Dixit
Wait...... it doesnt end there either....
Got to remove the timing cover and chain, ALSO gotta remove both HEADS as well. So basically this is an ENTIRE teardown to get it off.
Not sure what your plans on that is. We talking about basically tearing the entire **** apart.
Dixit
11-24-2003, 06:47 PM
#29
Originally Posted by bijan gxe
So you're not gona drop the tranny out?
Helicoil is your final answer?
Helicoil is your final answer?
We will need to test the helicoil (I'll bring my TQ wrench) to the maximum allowable TQ for the bolt...
If it doesn't work, then we still might have to drill and tap and go to a slightly larger bolt. The difference in weight will be negligable due to the bolts being close to the center of the spining mass. Centrifugal force (and an unstable balance condition) would play a larger role if the bolt holes were further from the center of the flywheel. Either way, I believe we will be OK...
11-24-2003, 08:11 PM
#30
Originally Posted by Quicksilver
We will need to test the helicoil (I'll bring my TQ wrench) to the maximum allowable TQ for the bolt...
If it doesn't work, then we still might have to drill and tap and go to a slightly larger bolt. The difference in weight will be negligable due to the bolts being close to the center of the spining mass. Centrifugal force (and an unstable balance condition) would play a larger role if the bolt holes were further from the center of the flywheel. Either way, I believe we will be OK...
If it doesn't work, then we still might have to drill and tap and go to a slightly larger bolt. The difference in weight will be negligable due to the bolts being close to the center of the spining mass. Centrifugal force (and an unstable balance condition) would play a larger role if the bolt holes were further from the center of the flywheel. Either way, I believe we will be OK...
My guess from talking ot some guys here at work is helicoils will hold ~75 ft lbs...
I looked on napa's website and got a little info.. I will be picking up one tomorrow
THANKS JUSTIN..
BTW I put a bid in on a house if I get it... BBQ time
11-25-2003, 02:36 PM
#32
Originally Posted by bags533
My guess from talking ot some guys here at work is helicoils will hold ~75 ft lbs...
I looked on napa's website and got a little info.. I will be picking up one tomorrow
THANKS JUSTIN..
BTW I put a bid in on a house if I get it... BBQ time
I looked on napa's website and got a little info.. I will be picking up one tomorrow
THANKS JUSTIN..
BTW I put a bid in on a house if I get it... BBQ time
Kick a$$ ! And then we can get really crazy with your "other" engine...
11-25-2003, 03:35 PM
#36
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Hi Hal. 
Couldn't be more wrong. I know on_alert personally, trust me, he's not Hal.
And he's right...95ft-lbs shouldn't strip the threads out of a forged crank. I gotta think it wasn't started cleanly before being tightened.
11-25-2003, 03:40 PM
#39
Originally Posted by ejj
Couldn't be more wrong. I know on_alert personally, trust me, he's not Hal.
And he's right...95ft-lbs shouldn't strip the threads out of a forged crank. I gotta think it wasn't started cleanly before being tightened.
It wasn't tightened to 95 ft/lbs...dunno where that info came from. It could have been tightened to 195 ft/lbs for all we know (since it wasn't a TQ wrench that was used)...