Which is better? Vortech Super FMU or Cartech FMU?
12-03-2003, 11:07 AM
#2
Cartech.
There should be no arguement at all. If you match the cartech with a Sard FPR or AEM FPR, you will a near perfect fuel setup. Without an FPR, I am running 6-8 psi higher than stock at idle and about 12:1 AF on the wideband throughout.
There should be no arguement at all. If you match the cartech with a Sard FPR or AEM FPR, you will a near perfect fuel setup. Without an FPR, I am running 6-8 psi higher than stock at idle and about 12:1 AF on the wideband throughout.
12-03-2003, 11:11 AM
#3
I thought the Cartech had a base fuel pressure option too? I could be wrong. Also the Cartech doesn't rely on discs for boost referenced pressures?
Originally Posted by thebigsadler
Cartech.
There should be no arguement at all. If you match the cartech with a Sard FPR or AEM FPR, you will a near perfect fuel setup. Without an FPR, I am running 6-8 psi higher than stock at idle and about 12:1 AF on the wideband throughout.
There should be no arguement at all. If you match the cartech with a Sard FPR or AEM FPR, you will a near perfect fuel setup. Without an FPR, I am running 6-8 psi higher than stock at idle and about 12:1 AF on the wideband throughout.
12-03-2003, 11:25 AM
#4
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
I thought the Cartech had a base fuel pressure option too? I could be wrong. Also the Cartech doesn't rely on discs for boost referenced pressures?
Cartech can adjust the baseline fuel pressure, but the lowest I could get it was to 40psi, I know it has been said it could go to 34-38psi, but I don't think it will happen in our cars (I am not sure why though).
To my knowledge it is not a disc setup, but I really don't know anything about it's "guts." It is adjusted with an allen screw on the top and a bleeder valve on the side. At 5psi when we dyno'ed my car, I hit 65-67psi on the fuel pressure guage. Since then, with new exhaust and hitting 6-7psi, I see 68-72psi on the fuel pressure gauge at full boost proving that it rises on its own, without changing any settings.
12-03-2003, 12:35 PM
#7
Originally Posted by BlackCat
I just saw another thread about adjustable fuel pressure regulators. Do I need this as well for my setup?
S
12-03-2003, 12:38 PM
#8
Originally Posted by maximase86
Actually, that is what the FMU essentially is, a adjustable fuel pressure regulator. If anything, I would go with the Cartech. They are really reliable and I have not heard a single bad thing about them. Also to give you an idea of what it can do. Maximan used to have the Vortech FMU on his 97. Put out about 239whp running so rich it couldn't be measured. We installed and tuned the Cartech, and now he puts out 278whp. So you should definately should get a cartech. Did I mention you should get the cartech? You really should get a cartech. :P
S
S
Anyway, what does the Cartech do that the SFMU doesn't? How is it a better option? I'm not arguing, I just want to know.
12-03-2003, 02:02 PM
#11
Originally Posted by ejj
I thought the vortech SFMU did it all...
Static FP adjustment (down to 20psi), adjustable rising rate ratio (with a adjustment screw) and a bleeder valve...
Am I missing something?
Static FP adjustment (down to 20psi), adjustable rising rate ratio (with a adjustment screw) and a bleeder valve...
Am I missing something?
Cartech is said to be able to adjust to "stock" fuel pressure levels at idle, but it can't do it.
12-03-2003, 03:28 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by BlackCat
I'm getting conflicting info from dealers here.
What's your opinion?
What's your opinion?
Here let me clarify his question. Hes talking about the Vortech SUPER FMU!
the cartech just adjust FP like the vortech FMU by bleeding off boost etc..
Well the Vortech adjusts base FP at idle and has four more adjustments then the cartech FMU. Yes the Vortech still uses discs but is like a da mm cartech. To me and I am sure everyone else five adjustments is better then one adjustment
makes sense does it not? My opinion and proven fact SFMU, you can pick one up for about $150 or you can be silly clown and pick up a sard for over $250 becuase they dont sell them here in the states and pick up a cartech for over $180, you do the math!
12-03-2003, 07:17 PM
#13
Originally Posted by JAY25
Here let me clarify his question. Hes talking about the Vortech SUPER FMU!
the cartech just adjust FP like the vortech FMU by bleeding off boost etc..
Well the Vortech adjusts base FP at idle and has four more adjustments then the cartech FMU. Yes the Vortech still uses discs but is like a da mm cartech. To me and I am sure everyone else five adjustments is better then one adjustment makes sense does it not?
My opinion and proven fact SFMU, you can pick one up for about $150 or you can be silly clown and pick up a sard for over $250 becuase they dont sell them here in the states and pick up a cartech for over $180, you do the math!
the cartech just adjust FP like the vortech FMU by bleeding off boost etc..
Well the Vortech adjusts base FP at idle and has four more adjustments then the cartech FMU. Yes the Vortech still uses discs but is like a da mm cartech. To me and I am sure everyone else five adjustments is better then one adjustment
makes sense does it not? My opinion and proven fact SFMU, you can pick one up for about $150 or you can be silly clown and pick up a sard for over $250 becuase they dont sell them here in the states and pick up a cartech for over $180, you do the math!
And cartech can adjust throughout, and you never have to mess with discs, just doesn't have the same baseline attributes.
12-03-2003, 07:54 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by thebigsadler
EIP unit, same as cartech is $150.00
And cartech can adjust throughout, and you never have to mess with discs, just doesn't have the same baseline attributes.
And cartech can adjust throughout, and you never have to mess with discs, just doesn't have the same baseline attributes.
I dont have to mess with the discs either. I can throw a disc that will put me at 10:1 and bleed unwanted boost w/the 370's. All I need is 4:1 or even 3:1. You can mess with discs if you want. Its an option and then you still have two more adjustments left. This SFMU runs you about $315.00 from Vortech. I guess Ill be the first to try it. That $150 doesnt adjust your base fuel pressure
how could it be a better deal? Its a great FMU w/stock injectors that I wont argue. If your going larger injectors you still have to spend more cash right? lower base FP!
12-03-2003, 09:06 PM
#15
Originally Posted by JAY25
I dont have to mess with the discs either. I can throw a disc that will put me at 10:1 and bleed unwanted boost w/the 370's. All I need is 4:1 or even 3:1. You can mess with discs if you want. Its an option and then you still have two more adjustments left. This SFMU runs you about $315.00 from Vortech. I guess Ill be the first to try it. That $150 doesnt adjust your base fuel pressure how could it be a better deal? Its a great FMU w/stock injectors that I wont argue. If your going larger injectors you still have to spend more cash right? lower base FP!
how could it be a better deal? Its a great FMU w/stock injectors that I wont argue. If your going larger injectors you still have to spend more cash right? lower base FP!I am just not a fan of the vortech fmu units i guess, but have yet to see anything on this sfmu, so i will wait to see how it performs i guess. adding whatever input i can.
12-03-2003, 09:08 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by thebigsadler
As i mentioned, it can only bring baseline down to 38-40psi (it seems).. you would need a fpr, but it does raise fp with boost accordingly.
I am just not a fan of the vortech fmu units i guess, but have yet to see anything on this sfmu, so i will wait to see how it performs i guess. adding whatever input i can.
I am just not a fan of the vortech fmu units i guess, but have yet to see anything on this sfmu, so i will wait to see how it performs i guess. adding whatever input i can.
the cartech is a good FMU, what I am saying is it wont drop your FP if you go w/larger injectors.
12-03-2003, 10:37 PM
#17
Originally Posted by JAY25
the cartech is a good FMU, what I am saying is it wont drop your FP if you go w/larger injectors.
12-04-2003, 05:30 AM
#18
Originally Posted by thebigsadler
True. I think you could adjust it down to 40, I would hope.. kind of hard to guestimate on that I guess. Plus the vortech is ugly
So...it sounds like the SFMU is better for people with larger injectors and the Cartech is best for people with stock injectors (both with stock ECU)?
12-04-2003, 07:43 AM
#19
Originally Posted by ejj
But with larger injectors (and no ECU) you need to get down into the 20's with your static FP...
So...it sounds like the SFMU is better for people with larger injectors and the Cartech is best for people with stock injectors (both with stock ECU)?
So...it sounds like the SFMU is better for people with larger injectors and the Cartech is best for people with stock injectors (both with stock ECU)?
12-04-2003, 12:31 PM
#20
Jason and others, you are confusing yourself on the Cartech. IT DOES NOT ADJUST base FP at all. The top screw is not base pressure at all. Its basically at what PSI you want the cartech to take over as an FMU. On a standard FMU like vortech, it wont happen till it sees boost. Cartech is kinda good in that sense that it can kick in eariler when it starts seeing boost. Why would you want this? Well lets say you run lean or too rich right before you boost and you want to level that off, this is where this screw comes in play.
Dixit
Dixit
12-04-2003, 01:01 PM
#21
Originally Posted by BigDogJonx
Jason and others, you are confusing yourself on the Cartech. IT DOES NOT ADJUST base FP at all. The top screw is not base pressure at all. Its basically at what PSI you want the cartech to take over as an FMU. On a standard FMU like vortech, it wont happen till it sees boost. Cartech is kinda good in that sense that it can kick in eariler when it starts seeing boost. Why would you want this? Well lets say you run lean or too rich right before you boost and you want to level that off, this is where this screw comes in play.
Dixit
Dixit
Can it do the opposite? That is, can it kick in later when the boost is above a certain level?
12-04-2003, 01:10 PM
#22
Originally Posted by Stephen Max
Can it do the opposite? That is, can it kick in later when the boost is above a certain level?
Dixit
12-04-2003, 05:42 PM
#23
Originally Posted by Stephen Max
Can it do the opposite? That is, can it kick in later when the boost is above a certain level?
I think the cartech only looks for a change from vacuum to positive manifold pressure. I dont think it can look for a specific amount positive pressure on its own. You might have to alter the vacuum signal the cartech sees with a device that measures specific boost levels while still allowing the cartech to see the onset of boost....
12-04-2003, 08:18 PM
#24
All I can say is quite simply: I gained +40HP after installing the B.E.G.I (Cartech) 2025. I paid $259 for brand new and would do it over and over. I previously had a Vortech FMU (came with the V2..have no clue if it's SFMU cuz i never heard of that till this thread) that had the 8:1 disc in it. I think that's right isn't it Shadow?
Simple numbers...following the maker's installation instructions and a phone call with the nice gentleman that makes em. Hell he even answers the phones on weekends
Shameless Plug: I'll be putting a JWT ECU in soon and will have this FMU (it's the pretty *bling!* version) for sale. Hit me up if your lookin for one. Pretty much Brand New and already tuned up for a set of mod's similar to mine.
Simple numbers...following the maker's installation instructions and a phone call with the nice gentleman that makes em. Hell he even answers the phones on weekends
Shameless Plug: I'll be putting a JWT ECU in soon and will have this FMU (it's the pretty *bling!* version) for sale. Hit me up if your lookin for one. Pretty much Brand New and already tuned up for a set of mod's similar to mine.
12-07-2003, 06:17 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by Max1man
All I can say is quite simply: I gained +40HP after installing the B.E.G.I (Cartech) 2025. I paid $259 for brand new and would do it over and over. I previously had a Vortech FMU (came with the V2..have no clue if it's SFMU cuz i never heard of that till this thread) that had the 8:1 disc in it. I think that's right isn't it Shadow?
Simple numbers...following the maker's installation instructions and a phone call with the nice gentleman that makes em. Hell he even answers the phones on weekends
Shameless Plug: I'll be putting a JWT ECU in soon and will have this FMU (it's the pretty *bling!* version) for sale. Hit me up if your lookin for one. Pretty much Brand New and already tuned up for a set of mod's similar to mine.
Simple numbers...following the maker's installation instructions and a phone call with the nice gentleman that makes em. Hell he even answers the phones on weekends
Shameless Plug: I'll be putting a JWT ECU in soon and will have this FMU (it's the pretty *bling!* version) for sale. Hit me up if your lookin for one. Pretty much Brand New and already tuned up for a set of mod's similar to mine.
10-15HP I can believe! 40HP
because of a FMU BS!
12-07-2003, 08:19 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by thebigsadler
EIP unit, same as cartech is $150.00
And cartech can adjust throughout, and you never have to mess with discs, just doesn't have the same baseline attributes.
And cartech can adjust throughout, and you never have to mess with discs, just doesn't have the same baseline attributes.
You got your cartech for $150.00 other members cant get the same price. So the SFMU is the best deal all the way around.
12-07-2003, 08:26 PM
#27
Maybe the car was running very rich before and causing the car to be down on power. He has my old SC setup, which had the 8:1 disc and a 3.33 pulley. That's a little rich. Plus he did a bunch of dyno tuning, so if he brought the fuel pressure down and got the A/F right, I don't see why not.
Originally Posted by JAY25
10-15HP I can believe! 40HP because of a FMU BS!
because of a FMU BS!
12-07-2003, 10:31 PM
#28
Originally Posted by Max1man
Shameless Plug: I'll be putting a JWT ECU in soon and will have this FMU (it's the pretty *bling!* version) for sale. Hit me up if your lookin for one. Pretty much Brand New and already tuned up for a set of mod's similar to mine.
12-07-2003, 11:04 PM
#30
wouldnt the cartech with the ecu yield more tuneability?
or would it just be another variable in the a/f equation?
would the jwt paired with an afc be able to fine tune it better than a fmu or sfmu paired with the jwt?
or would it just be another variable in the a/f equation?
would the jwt paired with an afc be able to fine tune it better than a fmu or sfmu paired with the jwt?
12-07-2003, 11:12 PM
#31
JWT with the SAFC would be ultimate in tunability. You could fine to it to the money. Emanage would be better in more tuning points.
Most tuners dont like FMUs cause they think its the first place for failure, and they are right cause it runs off a vacuum/boost line.
Not as accurate as an ECU modified program.
Dixit
Most tuners dont like FMUs cause they think its the first place for failure, and they are right cause it runs off a vacuum/boost line.
Not as accurate as an ECU modified program.
Dixit
12-07-2003, 11:18 PM
#32
Well, I don't think you'd need to bump the fuel pressure if you're running 370's. If you have enough power to exceed what the 370's can do at stock pressure, then I guess you'd need the FMU. Otherwise, it wouldn't provide any extra tunability since it can't take away fuel, only add.
As for the afc, I'd assume that it would help with the tunability. You have to figure JWT is erring on the side of safety in their program, so the AFC may be able to tweak the fuel curve in certain areas.
As for the afc, I'd assume that it would help with the tunability. You have to figure JWT is erring on the side of safety in their program, so the AFC may be able to tweak the fuel curve in certain areas.
Originally Posted by slimer
wouldnt the cartech with the ecu yield more tuneability?
or would it just be another variable in the a/f equation?
would the jwt paired with an afc be able to fine tune it better than a fmu or sfmu paired with the jwt?
or would it just be another variable in the a/f equation?
would the jwt paired with an afc be able to fine tune it better than a fmu or sfmu paired with the jwt?
12-07-2003, 11:46 PM
#33
alright, so would i scrap the fmu out of the setup when running the ecu (and just keep it for when i was running the stock setup)
another question along the jwt line. if i have a 98 and want to run a 96 ecu without having a mil, which wires would i resolder on the harness or is there a way that i could make an adaptor that could alter the harness (so that i could change it out easier)?
another question along the jwt line. if i have a 98 and want to run a 96 ecu without having a mil, which wires would i resolder on the harness or is there a way that i could make an adaptor that could alter the harness (so that i could change it out easier)?
12-08-2003, 07:33 AM
#34
Originally Posted by JAY25
10-15HP I can believe! 40HP because of a FMU BS!
because of a FMU BS!
12-08-2003, 07:37 AM
#35
Originally Posted by slimer
alright, so would i scrap the fmu out of the setup when running the ecu (and just keep it for when i was running the stock setup)
another question along the jwt line. if i have a 98 and want to run a 96 ecu without having a mil, which wires would i resolder on the harness or is there a way that i could make an adaptor that could alter the harness (so that i could change it out easier)?
another question along the jwt line. if i have a 98 and want to run a 96 ecu without having a mil, which wires would i resolder on the harness or is there a way that i could make an adaptor that could alter the harness (so that i could change it out easier)?
From Ben @ JWT: "With the JWT ECU installed an FMU is completly unecessary and will most likely cause issues with the program" & "We don't recommend running an SAFC or any other of the like as it affects how the program performs".
The base map is S/C only and can be used with stock injectors/MAF. It is not their prime product offering but it does work wonders. The next step up is the S/C + injectors + Z MAF and that is their bread and butter product.
But again, no FMU/SAFC is either needed or recommended.
12-08-2003, 09:35 AM
#37
Originally Posted by slimer
but doesnt the afc be able to fine tune adjustment?
12-08-2003, 09:48 AM
#38
Originally Posted by Stephen Max
They also don't like the prospect of being blamed for screwups by tuners fiddling with JWT's tuning via the safc. And maybe they don't like the idea of people getting better results by fine tuning with the safc.
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