MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

So I was driving into work the other day. I was sorta just thinking about the motor/turbo set up I'm working on when this idea came to me.

The factory 3.0 head gaskets are MLS "Multi Later Steel". Mr. Gasket is offering MLS head gaskets for hondas, you can stack the layers up to lower compression. Well the factory 3.0L gasket has two outer layers that are coated with sealent material on the pressure points where every thing joins up AND two layers in the middle that are just metal with no cuts or preferations. These four layers are held together by small rivets, when the heads are bolted down the rivets are poking out of the head/block seal, it wouldnt interfear if you carefully took the rivet out. So I thought why not carefully open up two sets or head gaskets and add the two center layers to from one set to another, or even a few more?

It will mic the gaskets and the center layers and play around with desktop dyno 2k to figure out what you would need to drop the CR down to 9:1 or so.

If you can crank up the boost a whole lot more the retarded cam timing wont be a big deal IMHO, giving a little to get alot.

Any thoughts?

Ramius83

Um, wow, is my first inital thought.......


Where you (and the other smart ones) come up with this....

stephenlc

iTrader: (1)

Good idea, does anyone know the difference in height it would take to lower it to 9:1?

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Well the VQ30DE gasket I got with my engine set only has one inner layer, no biggie it actually works out!

So the head gasket measure like this...

Whole gasket 0.0487" thick w/ a volume of ~ 8.39 CC
Inner spacer 0.0079" thick w/ a volume of ~ 1.36 CC

The thickness measurements are right the bore is 3.66" can some one check my math on the volume conversions, it cant be that easy?

if my clacs are correct... checked!
If you use tree added center layers you should get around 9.4:1 CR
If you add for center layers you should get around 9.0:1 CR

Good options for all you guys who dont want to fork out the money for pistons. Just get a low milage motor, pop the heads off, clean up the block and head mating surfaces surfaces to perfection and do this head gasket trick! if tho motor is low enough miles you should not need to do any freshning up at all! I would recomend at least ARP head studs to seal her up good!

FWIW, the new 350Z VQ35DE head gaskets I bought has two thin inner layers and the Maxima VQ35DE gaskets I took out of my project motor only had one thicker inner jayer. Tey both measured very close in thickness though?

Any thoughts guys?

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

If you do it, make sure they seal properly. Either high temp spray paint or maybe some high temp copper silicon around the coolant/oil gallies.

Kind of makes you wish it was an internal cam motor, hunh? heheh

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Nissan MLS gaskets are already coated around the sealing areas, so no sealers need. With old school copper gaskets you need this.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

I looked over the Nissan OE gaskets again did some research at the mister gasket site and made an interesting discovery. The Nissan gasket center layer is non coated. The outer layers are coated on both sides, same as the mister gasket parts. So what we need to do is use one complete gasket and use the non coated center and one of the coated outers from a second gasket set. Mr. Gasket only recomends two layers with their stackable MLS, so I guess we should only do two also, meaning the OE gasket layer plus the one you add is it. On a 3.0L this will only lower CR to 9.6:1. Thats not a very big drop but it may help a bit. If we can find thicker center layers this could be more doable.

I will be doing this on my hybrid 3.5L block with 3.0 heads. Using the SGP 3.5L 8.5:1 pistons with the 3.5L block and smaller cc 3.0 heads result in a 9.4:1cr. If I add the extra middle and top layer I will be at a nice 9.0:1cr.

ejj

iTrader: (5)

Doesn't adding a thicker headgasket mess wth the cam timing, because the cam gears are not further away from the crank gear?

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

If you can crank up the boost a whole lot more the retarded cam timing wont be a big deal IMHO, giving a little to get alot.

turbo97SE

iTrader: (3)

I was wondering if there is genuine interest in getting a thicker headgasket. I have found a source that produces high quality MLS headgaskets for custom applications. I have not really enquired about the VQ30 engine, but if there is genuine interest and enough ppl, I think this could happen. I have seen other threads in the past talking about the possibility but nothing ever came of them. I personally did not have interest since I was going to get rods and pistons. If there is interest I can enquire more. LMK

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Nigel, I got the WG, thanks!

Redmax

iTrader: (20)

I spoke to Rob at nrh last night about this and he told me that this was not a good idea. He said to add more layers of steel was not good. he said steel is a heat conductor. if you ever seen a stacked steel head gasket work , they get reall y hot and glow. by them getting so hot, they cause detonation. This is why my new head is teflon and steel.

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

thats a viable argument, but there are plenty of running cars out there to prove otherwise. so does the teflon reduce temp?? if so how much less, significantly??

Redmax

iTrader: (20)

Don't know for sure how much it reduces tem, but according to him it was a huge fad that people were putting them in the grand nationals for years untill recently, they found out this tidbit of info, and no longer use the stacked steel.

Oh addae the engine was finished last night

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

so whats the plan as of now?

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Corey, I know you friend has a shop and all BUT... I was not ever aware of GNs having MLS gaskets available,I could be wrong, I thought they have just Felpro gaskets with thick metal rings in the head and cylinder sealing area. I can see where this would not be stackeble from a heat perspective. Regarding teflon even if a whole gasket is teflon coated the thin are that is in the combustion chamber would burn off. Having tefelon or nitrile coating between the stacks so their is no metal to metal contact in the clamping areas for sealing reasons is the way all OE and aftermarket MLS gaskets are made. I dont know if you understood what I was talking about in the other posts about using only the botton two layers of another gasket, read that a little closer. Addae is right, their are plenty of DSMs and Supras using HKS MLS gaskets that are proving this theory of your friend wrong. Not to mention the factory gasket in the Maxima is stacked steel just another name for Multi Layer Steel. Think about this too, allot of blocks are made from steel. Mr gasket recomends no more than two stacks with their stackeble gaskets, you would think they would know what they are doing too.

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

have you looked into Cometic??( http://www.cometic.com/materials/materials.htm )

I can tell though a custom app is probably gonna run deep in the pockets for multiple thickness probably