nateplaysbass

ok, I've been giving updates to all the homies at nwmaxima.com, but I thought i'd let you guys in on the process as well.







more pics and info:
homepage

go to page three for most recent info.

BigDogJonx

iTrader: (7)

I commend you on doing this yourself, but Im going to give you some constuctive critism.

Are you planning on putting the turbo right there you show it in those pictures? If so how do you plan on sending the feed piping into the turbo with it sitting like that? Or do you plan on re-clocking the turbo?

It also seems like you welded all the piping and then grinded the welds down to a smooth finish and then painted them. From my experience, grinding the welds down to a flat finish is a bad idea, you just removed more than 50% of the strength on that weld. If ALL the piping is not in some shape or form strapped down, then you can litterally snap the joint in half. Ive proved this to many people before when I show them what happens when you butt weld two pieces of metal all the way around (whether it be round tubing or square tubing) and then grind the welds down. I took a hammer and just swinged it like a pendulum (sp?) and it hit the pipe and cracked the weld. So Id very careful about grinding them all down.

Also you may want to get your turbo ceramic coated if you going to mount it that close to the fender and frame. You will most likely melt the paint off the frame underneath from the 1600F+ temps.

Dixit

Dixit

nateplaysbass

oh, there's one detail I left out, I'm planning on making my own headers, so the exhuast inlet pipe will come in from above the transmision. I'm doing this because I can't stand the thought of the exhaust going through 6 feet of pipe with lots of bends in it.

I wondered about this, but the reason I did it is to look for leaks. note: I did not grind the welds completely flush, there is still a bit of buildup on the seams. with the welds ground it is much easier to see little spots that were missed between tapping the pipes and finishing the welds.

I'm planning on using exhaust wrap all the way from the engine, and around the turbine housing. but do you think that will be enough to keep the heat in? I've heard that if you get the right brand, the wrap does phenominal.

BigDogJonx

iTrader: (7)

Wrap helps is more like the key word. Ceramic coating just cant be touched. The cost to get the turbine housing coating is probably in the range of 50 bucks.

When you say you making your own headers, are you have a header plate made to match the heads with the bolt holes and then making your header? Are you doing a 3-1 design and then matting that into a Y collector and then into the turbo? Also since you say you dont want 6ft of piping, I assume you are bring the pipe forward like I have setup. Just take it from me and make sure the collection of the rear meeting with the front is a smooth collector type meet. Not a 90* angle join where basically the exhaust from one pipe is going to hit the other at 90* and cause turbulence in the pipe and also loss of potential power.

Also do you plan on keeping your stock radiator fans or you plan on removing them for clearance of the turbo feed pipe? If you plan on removing the fans then you may really want to look into that because I have removed them and put two very high flowing pusher fans in the front of the radiator and it still dont stack up to the stock "puller" fans. You will never get the same efficiency as a puller fan with a pusher fan. Only reason I mention this is because I have problems where the engine temp gets higher than 220* and heads toward H on the gauge and I end up having to turn the heat on on the hot summer days to keep it from completely over overboard.

Dixit

nupe500

iTrader: (13)

nice knowledge in this here thread...thanks for the info BigDog...even though I know its not for me...

nateplaysbass

now you've got me interested in the ceramic coating stuff. do you have any links i could go to and see who will do it for me?

I already have the header flanges cut, I have access to CATIA (awesome CAD program) and a waterjet cuter. the next step is to make blanks on CNC that will bring the oval shape of the ports off the engine into a round hole for the tubing without any sharp edges on the inside.

I'm still working on the design for the joint between both banks. I'd like to have some flex section between the engine and the turbo, so that the turbo doesn't move around. I've seen pics of the 90* joint, looks painful.

I'm pretty sure I will be abble to keep the stock puller fans. It looks to me like I will have more clearance issues behind the engine with the firewall than in front with the radiator fans.

I'd like to see more detailed pics of the headers that were made to bring the exhaust up top. It'd help lots in my design.

BigDogJonx

iTrader: (7)

Well I used my stock header since our stock headers are fairly decent. Not much to them to really improve in my opinion. On my setup like I said earlier, I have the pipe coming forward as well and had to lose my fans.

You wont have any clearance issues in the rear as long as you dont make the header 2x as big. I think your major concern is how you make the header upfront. Main area of concern is where the Y collector for the two banks are going to be. To me it seems like you HAVE to be collecting it almost near the radiator cause if you collect it any farther back, you have to either make some type of U turn on the feed pipe or a Uturn on the front header pipe going into the collector. This gets ugly. Because you main issue is you dont want to be sending the pipe under the engine support beam. You cant go over it anywhere near the middle because of the engine. The only room you got is going over it right infront of the engine mount. But it is going to be a really tight fit to get it to go between that as well as clear the radiator and front engine mount.

Also another thing I noticed on your turbo mounting is that with it setup the way you did you are going to have one problem on the feed pipe going into the turbine. You will have to bring the feedpipe upto the turbo, then back towards the firewall, then make a uturn and feed directly into the Flange of the turbine. This is not good for exhaust flow when you have viscious bends of that nature. It would be much better to pull the turbo away from the fender (towards the passenger side) about 3" so that the flange can be sitting off the fender/frame. That way you can bring the piping straight UP into the turbine instead of having to make any turns going into the turbine. Something definetely to think about there.

On the ceramic coating, find out if you got local shops in your area that do ceramic coatings, if you dont know, talk to your powder coaters, they should know who does them. Otherwise you can always send the housing into http://www.swaintech.com.

Man it must be nice to have access to a CAD and water jet as well as CNC. You'd have to PRY me out that room if I ever got acess to something like that. I do have a friend that owns them and would like to get him to cut me some things, been wanting to try out a few things.

Also one last thing about the flanges you had cut for the exhaust headers. Make sure the pipe going to be welded onto that flange is "ovaled". If you make a straight round pipe welded to it, its not really that efficient and may cause some turbulence due to overlapping.

Dixit

MAXIN

iTrader: (5)

Your in WA...check out these guys.

http://www.performancecoatings.com/

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

If you're successful in that, you should have got a divided turbine housing, did a 3-1, and just collected the two banks at the turbine.

That's the best spoolup you'll get. I'm just not sure how that far of a distance will negate the benefit of the individual exhaust pulses.



Bigdog

nateplaysbass

ok, some more details... now that you talk about bringing the eshaust foreward: No I will not be bringing the headers foreward, and there will not be any exhaust pipes under the engine. The plan is to bend the headers to the side right off the engine; Go OVER the front engine mount with the front bank headers and come out from behind the engine on the right side. (when looking with the hood open) This is why I am making my own headers. so, now that the exhaust pipes are above the transmission, and one pipe is coming from behind the engine on top of the tranny as well, the y joint will be above the tranny and behind the mounting possiotion that my turbo is in right now.

BTW Ice2k1, I have a turbo with split exhaust housings. that is a good idea though, why not keep the banks separate until the turbo.... I'll have to think this one out some more.

oh, and the ovalled piping part. the blanks that I was talking about are going to have a taper on the inside that will go from oval to round, this is so that I don't have to have an oval pipe and try to bend it against the wide part of the pipe.

Bags

iTrader: (3)

BTW he was talking about the exhaust/headers.

I think you may have a problem of keeping the stock fans and going OVER the motor mount.

Ok, In the rear there is the brake booster line which is metal, the brake lines, and there is the MAIN relay wiring harness that is on the right side. Also with that your now running a pipe that gets 1000 deg. F over the motor. Even with the ceramic coating, that is going to be fricking hot. The space there in the back of the firewall is THIN. Which BTW the fuel lines run right around ther eas well.


I hope you have looked at that very well

Maybe I am misunderstanding, are you coming over the back of the motor and going to the right side, where the MAF is?

Or or you trying to come just above the transmission?

Either way good luck.

nateplaysbass

Thanks, I'll need it.

with the headers, I'm talking about coming directly off the engine and running parallel with the ports sideways towards the transmission. If a have to move some wire and a fuel line and do lots of stuff like that, that's fine with me. I'm doing this to learn, not only to get a fast car.


Hal has someone: Tilley / Rob's DET @fastmaxima.com
does anybody know where I can get more pics of this install?

stephenlc

iTrader: (1)

The front will be hard because there are fans, a motor mount. The back you could use stainless lines for the fuel. I would just go under the engine. There are too many rubber hoses back there. You could be leaking radiator fluid from a hose that has melted, step on the gas and have nothing to cool the cylinders and boom. Look at S7XR's or something like that. He did a crossover pipe to the front but his turbo is kind of low.

nateplaysbass

I have a contact that can get me any size steel braided hose I need... I should be able to get lots of that stuff and just replace everything. there's only two hoses to the heater core right? nothing else behind the motor?

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

No, keep them separate ALL THE WAY until the turbine feed flange. That keeps all the exhuast pulses separated.

I think Bags is right. I ORIGINALLY wanted to do what you're thinking EXCEPT use some 350Z aftermarket headers to bring the exhaust runners parallel to the engine. However, after looking at this, no way on a 5th gen. Too much crap in the way on the REAR bank. Hard brake line spagetti bowl, fuel lines, etc. for 1500+F exhaust to be running next too IF possible to snake through.

Maybe 4th gens. have more room from less crap in the way.

nateplaysbass

I think they do, of course your engine is BIGGER. If I have to I will do lots of excess heat shielding. I will have much shorter and even pulses from the engine than most other turbo applications thus far. this will give me a faster spool with a bigger turbo, and so on and so forth. mo powa!

I appreciate you guys posting your boost stories, they're very inspirational, and stuff like that helps me to keep working on it.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I have a VQ30 also, just lots more crap, wires, brake-lines, vacuum lines, fuel lines, you name it, it's RIGHT THERE where you're talking about coming over.

If you can take any pictures of the rear bank where you're planning on coming over/through, I'd appreciate it.

Yes, a log type manifolds(3-1) into a single collector at the turbine should spool at least one size turbine faster.

Keep the pictures/updates coming.

BigDogJonx

iTrader: (7)

The only thing Alex he is going to save is the entire ABS controll unit. His 97 most likely dont have it.

Dixit

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, there isn't any room with that bish sticking out like it is.

Nissan fockers~!

Bags

iTrader: (3)

Here is "basicly" where he is talking about ice.. I still think it is way to much work. BUT, I am worng more often than not.


Again nate, not trying to be an ***...I am trying to be helpful

http://www.turbomaxima.com/modules.p...view_photo.php


http://www.turbomaxima.com/modules.p...view_photo.php

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I know that's the area Bags, just can't see with the intake tubing in the way.

I know I saw a picture of, I think Mardi, where he was boring the throttle-body, or something like that. Basically, any pic where all the crap is out of the way, so I can see what he has to work with on room.

Just curious, because it didn't look possible on mine.

nateplaysbass

ok, heres some pics of where I want to go....
coming in from the top of the engine bay, you can kinda see where a gap is, big enough to get a pipe through.






looks like a tight fit, but I should be abble to pull it off. what do you guys think?

subs1000w

im sure its possible just make sure there are no meltables with in 2 or 3 inches of the pipe and you should be fine

also do you plan on eleminating oyur EGR system or are you going to incorperat it into the new maniphold

and it appears that your using standered crappy hose clamps for your intercooler piping, most recomemd you use quality T-Bolt claps so they done come lose or break and leave you stranded

stephenlc

iTrader: (1)

Ya if you moved the wires and hoses. I have taken my intake manifold off at least 20+ times. You will definatily need to use stainless lines on the fuel lines. There are two back there. The line coming from the fuel filter and the fuel return line. You could probally get some of that thermal wrap and wrap it around those 2 big hoses back there, I think they are heater hoses. There is are two coolant lines back there two.

I see where you are going with this.

Icy how would you use a 3-1 collector? You would need two then would they merge into one larger pipe? I don't see how you would connect them to the split runner flange, wouldn't they be too big?

Bags

iTrader: (3)

Nate again, that is 1 tight fit. I am pulling for you.

a few things to think about...

Fuel... you may want to relocate the fuel lines and filter WAY AWAY. If you get into an accident and fuel comes out, BOOM.

wires.. be very careful you don't get them to close. if they start to melt you may have 1 heck of a mess on your hands.


I can post some pics of the motor removed, that may help you "see" what is back there 100%, if you want

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, two 3-1 log type manifolds(one on each bank).

You "squish" them together into an oval shape. Still looking for a company that makes a merged collector for this.

nateplaysbass

oh hell yeah! that'd be awesome!

Thanks for your support and Ideas guys, This really helps for me to have people to bounce Ideas off of... and to have you guys think of stuff that I might miss.

as far as the whole squishing the pipes, that's becoming more of an Idea in my mind than before... do you guys have any reserves for putting flex pipe between the engine and turbo? I can't see if there will be a problem.




the WaterJet does such and awesome job!

Bags

iTrader: (3)

Ok.. they are kinda big... if you need the higher res ones.. shoot em your email and I can do that too.

Again, I may post suggestions or thoughts.. not to discourage you, just tyring to help

Bags

iTrader: (3)

Bags

iTrader: (3)

Bags

iTrader: (3)

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Here's an example:

nateplaysbass

any thoughts and/or opinions are greatly appreciated. Thanks Bags.

so here's the pics I'm interested in.


that pipe that goes right above the manifolds, it comes all the way around the engine from the water pump. I should be abble to rerout it, maybe cut off the pipe towards the left of the engine and use braided hoses directly from the pump. Do you have any pics of the motor outside of the engine bay? with the coolant hoses, since I'm not going to have an exhaust pipe under the engine, I could run them down and under where the y-pipe used to be.



I wonder if I could get the hoses under that heat shield... maybe I'd be better off keeping the hoses above the headers, since they originate there.



keep looking, and comparing what is in these photo's, let's try to come up with a list of the stuff I need to redo with braided hoses. As well as other things to move, and possible locations for these things. This is where pics of the back of the motor when it's out of the car will help.

nateplaysbass

That's a great pic, I'm wondering how hard It will be to fabricate and/or bend the pipes into that shape. From what it looks like In that pic, they still combined both sides of the exhaust before they hit the turbo. But it shows the general Idea.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, ignore that part, just showing spanishrice how the divided turbine flange meets two runners.

Doesn't look fun. Hopefully, someone like ATP or Burns Stainless starts making merge collectors for divided turbine housings that you can just weld too.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

I met Nate and saw the car today, he's doing an awesome job on it all.

Nate, one thing though, if your going to the NW drags (and any other really) they dont allow you to use flex piping on the exhaust

nateplaysbass

Thanks!

oh, and If I can't use flex pipe, then what? Nothing? what about when the engine bucks and rolls. Maybe I'll just have to put exhaust wrap around the flex section and not say anything about it, b'c if I don't have flex pipe I know I'll end up cracking the headers.

stephenlc

iTrader: (1)

Ya you need a flex section. Just wrap it up if you go to the track. I am pretty sure they don't look under every car unless it is a competition.

MrGone

iTrader: (30)

I'm sorry, do you mean flex section like what our Y-pipes use, or flex pipe as in sealed piping thats flexiable. I'll try to find a picture. I thought you were talking about the later. Flex sections are fine, its just the flex pipe they dont allow. It's kind of hard to explain, a friend had to make a low budget exhaust out of it, I'll try to find a picture. It's almost like dryer ducting but stronger/thicker and less flexable.


edit:
http://www.unitedmuffler.com/images/...essories02.gif

stephenlc

iTrader: (1)

Why would you want to use that? What material is it made out of?