hlh0501

iTrader: (1)

I thought it would be fun to look back on a thread and see what everyone thought the VQ30DE was capable of.

Well, we all know what kind of power I made previously - with one of the world's worst tunes. I have changed my setup significantly - and will be looking for more power.

I don't know that I will do it, and I am not sure that anyone has ever tried before; but I will be taking a stab at seeing how much power I can get out of this motor - while keeping a decent tune on it.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

SSSSSweeeeeeet!!!!

I'd really like to know with proper timing and a safe AFR, just how much the rods can take.

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

I voted for 550-600(+/-10)hp...

but are you going for high HP and durability or just one flat out BIG dyno pull?

hlh0501

iTrader: (1)

The difference I see in those two, is tuning.. and I am going to keep a conservative tune on it.

If I can make enough power to break it, it will be from power alone - not tuning. It will actually be tuned in a real environment, many many pulls, and then taken to the dyno - not for tuning, but strictly to see what power it makes. SO, it will not be 1 fast pull with a blown motor.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

BEST bet to find weakest point of the engine, ie rods, is to run super cold plugs, higher octane gas, retarded timing, and then keep adding fuel/boost in small increments raising hp until *SNAP*.

IMO...don't take it over 6000rpm either.

stephenlc

iTrader: (1)

Haha, are you going to do it without nirous. Ya keep the rpm low and keep it rich with high octane.

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

Racing VQ30 makes 415hp at 8500rpm w/o any turbos or sc. So that is a good place to start at

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I think you missed the "stock" part...

nostrixoxide

I think if the timing is right the rod's will be able to handle close to 600hp before they fail.

stephenlc

iTrader: (1)

they have forged rods and pistons.

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

it has a little more than that to make 415 n/a...the super high CR is probably more so a factor than the pistons/rods being forged

stephenlc

iTrader: (1)

I know that. I was talking about being stock engine. Of course it has individual throttlebodies, high compression amoung other things.

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

god I would love to hear the race VQ30 winding out to 8.5K!!! have they used that engine in anything yet besides a prototype? any race cars?

nostrixoxide

Heres what the rods are gonna look like after 600hp http://www.ecstuning.com/connecting%20rod%20page.htm

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

It is used in the Nissan Telifonica series, like a young peoples F1

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Great Hal, cant wait to see what you get out of her. 6-700 for a few pulls? Weak link is head bolts, pop goes the gasket!

My trans is back together, s/b back in this weekend!

desertmaxima

iTrader: (5)

Didnt you address this problem with headbolts by getting some custom ones made from arp via someone. How much did those things cost

stephenlc

iTrader: (1)

I think he used the arp ones. Are you going with the VQ30 or Vq35 mardi?

Redmax

iTrader: (20)

MAtt still has the 30 in his car

BigDogJonx

iTrader: (7)

The hell with not going past 6000rpm, I made 450whp taking it to redline As long as you tune it right and not dyno it without a wideband you will be fine.

I always shut it down the second it started climbing past 12.5:1 a/f. Go back change the emanage fuel crap, dyno again, keep going till I got it near 450whp, I couldve taken it farther but I was getting too close on the injector duty cycle and dyno guy was getting nervous on me blowing the headgasket and antifreeze falling on his roller.

Dixit

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I still want to see what that chart looks like Dixit.

You don't want the added RPM tensil stress on those rods. It will make them snap a lot sooner then boost will. That's the beauty of boost IMO, no need to rap it out to 7000+rpm.

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

so those max's with the JWT ecu and mevi and S/C'ers are not making anymore power after the stock redline??? I still really believe the benefit is there, the point is to keep the rpms higher in the next gear you shift into so you are deeper in the rich powerband of the mevi!! so you are carrying a lot more power into the next gear and starting with more power...

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I didn't say that....just that if we'd like to know what XXXwhp a stock VQ30 can withstand under boost, you don't want to push the RPM.

Additional RPM dramatically increase tensile stress on the rods, which IMO is what is the weakest link and will fail first. Just depends on what Hal is trying to find out here, but I'd rather know what max whp they can handle NOT RPM at a lower whp.

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

no, what I meant was you said the beauty of boost is that you don't have to wind it out to 7K....but I think you do if you want absolutely the most power and acceleration out of the car

of course, it would all be useless if you can't breath up there, but with a turbo and a mevi, the maxima can easily breath up high!!! although I am not currently looking at a dyno of a boosted maxima with a mevi and raised rev limiter...

although I know requin6 ran a 12.9 on street tires with a mevi, raised rev limiter with just a 3.125 pulley, and y pipe, and cai, and JWT S/C ecu (implied by the raised rev limiter of course)

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

That's probably true for 1/4-mile performance and shifting depending on the power curve.

What I meant was due to the FI, you don't need to hit 7000+rpm like you would NA. FI, especially turbos allow you to hit peak torque much sooner in the power band. I'd like to see Dixits 450whp dyno to see where that actually occurs.

michaelnyden

iTrader: (15)

IceY2K1, sorry if I wasn't clear...I meant purely in S/C applications where boost is directly proportional to rpm as S/C'ers are belt driven, so the higher the rpm, the higher the boost

but you right...with a turbo application you will see tq peaks at very low rpms like 2K, 3K and hp peaks at 5K, 6K...etc....but in a S/C application I am not sure what would happen at higher rpm's without having a properly tuned dyno graph right in front of me....

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I knew you were referring to a linear power curve and that's definitely true. But even then, with boost in either form, you'll be turning less RPM for a given output, even more for a turbo.

My comment was really based on NA guys having to rap out every last RPM to suck in as much air as possible in a shortening period of time(higher RPM) to acheive high power levels, but FI allows you to force the air in when RPM are lower and acheive the same high power levels.

A lower RPM(to a point) allows higher boost pressure/max power when conecting rods are the weakest point due to less tensile(stretching) stress.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Double digit boost is pretty cool at 7200 rpms though!

Redmax

iTrader: (20)

............

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I can only imagine....

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

FWIW, JWT can do a 740cc program, but the limit is of course the MAF.

stephenlc

iTrader: (1)

Lots of people with 240's are against JWT for some reason.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

That's because of business practices, ie long delays, cost, rude, etc..

Noboby can argue that they don't produce AWESOME ****, you just have to be willing to pay and wait, wait, and wait some more.

BlackBIRDVQ

iTrader: (15)

JWT sucks, 600 dollars, waiting for 6 weeks. U can swap MAFs on Emanage and S-AFC and compensate for larger injectors instead of thr stockers. I run some 550cc Tomei injectors, and Q45 MAF- all controlled by my own tunned S-AFCII on my G20.

stephenlc

iTrader: (1)

What do you have to do to get the Q45 MAF to work. It should be able to outflow the Z32 MAF.

papasmurf

This is all very interesting, but considering the last dyno I saw of Hal's was 500 hp at this point if he does it up right like you all are sugesting. By the way I agree with IceY2K1 - lower RPMs and higer boost. This is how the Big HP Sup's do it they make Max Hp at around 5800 to 6200 rpm and they can red line higher than we can not to mention on a stock bottom end they can push upwards of 25 to 30psi. SO Hal like they said start of small and just work your way up adding boost and adjusting timing and fuel and the when you hear snap, thats it. Good luck though I cant wait to see how this all turns out. Im building a low compresion, 9:1 motor aftermarket what ever I can get my hands on and then slaping a t60 and seeing what I can do Topside. Im shooting for 175mph(Ok more like 160mph). what do you think. Can it be done.

Bruce

hlh0501

iTrader: (1)

You'll need new gears or a tall tire to do that. With my swapped gears, the car still had enough power to wind 5th w/out spray... and that was 17x. It's scary, I won't do it again - but wanted to know at the time if the car was powerful enough to redline a higher 5th gear. Set your goals on track times or trap speeds instead... safer, and have much more meaning. Top speed means virtually nothing.

I agree about dynoing lower rpm to make power, safer. But I won't be doing that. The car will have many passes on the street getting the tune lined out perfect before it sees the dyno. I'm not going in for "1 pull of glory", but if for whatever reason (rods), it blows , atleast I'll know the limit.

Also, big HP "Sup" I assume you mean Supras? Making max hp at 5800rpm?
Not the ones I have worked on, and they are running ~33-34 on stock bottom end without problems. The first dyno that came to mind - Ken Henderson's built supra w/ HKS TT - makes peak power when they shut it down , around 7400rpm - and was still climbing even then.

papasmurf

Hal,

I agree with you Im kinda tired, but yeah as far as the top speed thing goes I just want to be able to out run anything on the street I know we have a family 4dr but I like to see the look on a driver of a vette or BMW or something like that going how did he do that.

As far as the dyno thing your right about the Sup (Supra) they do continue on up as the rpm reach 7500. All I was trying to say was that even at 5800-6200rpm they can put up some very large numbers.

But I think I will take your advice and work on track times my only concern is the abuse on the tranny. Im on my third trans, I keep blowing up second third and fourth gear. Anything you can suggest. Also do you know where I can get new high strenth gear and longer gear ratios cut for our car.

Thanks for your input and Im glad to finally be back on the org talking to all of you. I have been gone for a while but Im going to try to spend more time here.

Thanks,
Bruce

nostrixoxide

Sorry to butt in on your guy's conversation, but I was reading your post & wouldn't cryofreezing the gears increase the durability? I'm not sure who could supply different gearing for our tranny's, but I'm sure a machine shop could probably make something for you out of a strong enough material?

papasmurf

yeah I have a connection with http://www.diversifiedcryogenics.com/. I know the manager. But that can only help so much I really need to find a shop in the washington/baltimore area that can make me gears out of something stonger. But thatnks for your help and suggestion. Im actually going to cryo treat my whole engine and parts.

Bruce