MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Ok so Im at 16.5psi anf the Z32 MAF is hitting 4.9v, 5.0Vs is max. I have the e-Manage with the MAP sensor from the E-01. Im sorta at a loss as to how to tune for say 20psi using the MAP signal and the Additional Injector Setting map? Say the Z32 MAF hits 5v at 17psi so from 17-20psi how do I know what to put in the values on the map? I can look at the data logging from the 16.5psi tune and perhaps mirror the duty cycle increases, but what worries me it that MAF voltage and boost PSI are not in a constant relationship, air temp and baro pressure play a bit of a role here. What if 17.5 psi becomes the 5v MAF setting not 17psi, the car will be rich as it crosses 4.9 to 5,0 MAFv which will now also get additional fuel from the MAP map until it hits a steady 5v on the MAF rolling up to 20psi. My fear is the reverse that I get a lean spot when the transition happens? that 15psi becomes the 5v spot and the MAP map is not set to add fuel until 17psi. I guess as long as I dont set my boost level in the area it rolls into 5v on the maf it should be OK because the lean/rich spot will only be their for a few 10ths of a sec as the turbo spools up the the target boost. Part throttle in that 5v maf range may be an issue, hmmm part throttle at 17psi, cant see that happening to often. Hal or anyone else using this feature and can instruct me on how to do it right?

vortechpower

iTrader: (1)

Here to get my learn on.

Mad-MAX_SE

iTrader: (2)

mardi - you're using a JWT ecu now right, or are you using the g-force/technoquare one still? i would say that if you're using the JWT you're the prime candidate to try out their lightning MAF program. I'm aware that the resolution may not be as great using such a large MAF, but at least you won't be guessing and hoping your way through tuning. In all honesty, since our cars rely on airflow readings to run correctly, why take the chance.

Now if you're not using the JWT ECU, then disreguard everything i wrote, and good luck tuning it, i'm sure Hal can give you at least some good ballpark figures...

Nismo87SE

You have 2 choices, either goto a bigger maf or run a doolz intake setup from a Z32. The doolz setup would basically cut the airflow in half so you wouldn't max out until you almost doubled the power. I'm not sure if JWT has a program for this type of intake.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

I really dunnu where I could put a dual MAF sysem. MY TC intake comes down like a CAI in the drivers fenderwell, heirs no room for a real even flowing system in their. Perhaps I could have Z1 make a custom fit app for me. Or just go Lightning MAF.

For now I want to work on the MAP set up and see how she works, seems to be OK for Hal.

hlh0501

iTrader: (1)

Matt,
I see your point about fluctuating.. although I have not experienced this.
Even with the recent change of temp, 70 -> 40's, my AF stays pretty constant at mid-high 11's under boost.

My ecu apparently does not do as good of a job as JWT, as I have to bring in fuel way before the MAF is exceeded. I introduce fuel at the 1.5psi / 2500rpm cell, and ramp up with MAP and RPM.

At 14-16psi / 5000rpm, I have a big jump. Any more revs, or, any more boost, and the DC adjustment goes up a lot relative to MAP. That is the point you are going to have to find on your car, when to take over fueling based on MAP. I'm not sure if there is any majic way to know what % increase, I just started from excessively rich and worked the AF up until it was right.

mtcookson

iTrader: (2)

is your MAF on the charged side or the non-charged side? i used to have mine on the charged side and would see 50% + on the s-afc at 7-8 psi. when i went to the non-charged side it's never went over 50% nor came real close to it at the same 7-8 psi. if you do have it on the charged side you might gain a bit more room to play with if you move it to the non-charged side.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Thanks Hal.

I asume you put the Iridium plugs in? Did they work out OK?

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Non charged

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

that was my guess and sounds like the best advice to me. it seems like a total guessing game when it comes down to using the pressure sensor. but there has to be(and I could have sworn there is) a clearer explanation relating the voltage to somehow "easily" forming a proper fuel map...

hlh0501

iTrader: (1)

No, I've just been experimenting with dif gaps on BKR7's. I experimented with gain, setting it very slow cleans it up:
3000rpm = 12psi
5000rpm = 15psi
6500rpm = 20psi
no cutting out at all with that gain

So now I am thoroughly confused as to why it would "blow out" when gain is set higher (not high enough to spike, just to spool faster)


damax, I made my starting values off estimating fuel consumption + 10%
I'm sure you could spend enough time and have it closer, but it will still need to be cleaned up, so..
I found the best way for my original clean-up tunes was to start from 40mph in 5th gear and just let it slowly enter boost. I turned map trace on continuous, and had someone watch AF. As soon as it was bad (<10.5,>12) they'd tell me to stop pulling and I'd make the changes to the bad cells in the trace on the fly and start from 40 again.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Can you post the additional injection map?

That would at least give Mardi a starting point although the setups are somewhat different it will still be useful.

Bernardd

At 4.9 volts you are flowing about 85 % of the maf's capacity.
At 5.0 volts you are flowing about 90 % of the maf's capacity.
At 5.1 volts you are flowing about 99 % of the maf's capacity.
I don't know at what point your ecu stops reading the maf. On most Nissan's it's 5.12vdc. Those #'s are taken out of the flow map in a Z32 ecu. A friend of mine is getting a Lightning maf flow tested this week if anyone is interested in the flow map. Anyway I hope that helps you out a bit.
Bernard

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

I would love to see a flow MAP for the late model Lightning MAF, the Z32 MAF data would be nice too.

5.12v max, Awesome, time to crank it up a bit more.

Bernard, for only having 41 posts you are a great contributor to maxima.org. THANKS!

crewchief264

I was under the impression that you could use say your stock a32 maf, stock ecu with the greddy emanage. However, when the stock a32 maf was exceeded the greddy psi sensor would take the place of the maf maxing out and the emanage would take over? is that right?? I plan on running my v-2 intercooled with a 2.87 and 550cc with the emanage this way, do I need to rethink my plans?

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Yes, it will work just as you discribed.

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

it doesn't take over...it allows YOU to make your own adjustments beyond the MAFs exceeded voltage. its not automatic.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

In other words, if there are large changes in barometric pressure/altitude or temperature, once past the MAF limit, the MAP can't fully compensate since the injection values are preset.

Speed density setups require temperature to truely be able to compensate, which the eManage doesn't use. The eManage MAP feature is somewhat a better version of the typical boost reference system, however nowhere near the precision/flexibility of an airflow referenced system.

You can take Hals' philosophy to keep the AFR excessively rich to hedge against small/medium changes in atmospheric conditions at the sacrifice of some power as long as you can keep from blowing out the spark when too rich.

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

I'm really curious as to how SDS would work on these cars...just the fuel control without the spark/ignition...total MAF deletion and injector are dependent on MAP...

http://www.sdsefi.com/specific.html
EM-4D Digital fuel injection control

but not sure on the compatability

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Looking at the 5th gen FSMs, 5.1V seems to be the top of the range, so I'd say that's true at least for us 5th gens.

Bernardd

Update: I spoke with my buddy last nite and he's still waiting on the flow chart. And what format do you guys want to see this in? I can provide the following Nissan Ecu maf flow charts: Q45, z32, Ford cobra, Ford Lightning (80mm), Ford Lightning (90mm), Stock Maxima mafs for VG, and the VQ. The Ford mafs are the only one's I have the actual tested flow data for. I was thinking a graph showing the curve of each maf in excel with vq map value vs voltage.
Bernard

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Great!

I would be interested in seeing the flow rate -vs- voltage on the Z32 and 90mm Lightning.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

Me too. I did a search several months ago for the Z32 flow vs volts and came up with nothing. I am thinking about making a flow bench so I could test it myself.

Bernardd

Like I said, I only have test data for the ford maf's. I have the lightning data but it doesn't start at .08vdc or end at 5.12 vdc. Anyone know how to extrapolate the data from the curve? The test results are here: http://www.tangentrix.com/forums/vie...a96b5e4da6a7ef

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Thanks, I dont know how to translate it, but lemme look it over.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Whoa. So based on what I can figure this MAF will support up to about 700bhp worth of air flow. Perhaps 600whp. Awesome!

Bernardd

Can you build a custom maf table using the flow data for e-manage? I've got the software and it looks to be pretty thorough for engine tuning.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

Best I could figure is to use the injector correction table to do it for you.

Bernardd

Are you talking about the airflow correction table? The z32 maf is good to 500hp, the Lightning is good to 700p, 500/700 = .71. So multiply everything in the map by .71? You've got a wideband? Set your idle to the same afr it was with the z32 maf. Find your multiplier by old values/new values. Figure out the rest of the map with some fudge factor added and start testing. I've done mapping like that on older z31 ecu's. Works quite well.
Bernard

Edit: I got that backwards. It should be 700/500=1.4. 1.4 would be multiplied against the fuel map values because the maf voltage would be lower with the larger maf.

Ninos_Maxima

iTrader: (5)

wow I learn so much from your experiences, Dope

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

Get back to me in AIM if you want to hear my dual MAF solution. I think it would work nicely for a TT setup.

Also, guys don't forget about the 3" PVC MAF that I have used before. That alone will add additional capacity using the stock sensor. The only problem would be tailoring the software correctly to make use of it.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

AEM Nigel is the man!

Julio

A ghetto way to do it would be to gut out a q45 MAF, and put the sensor from the z32 in it. I cant remember how much bigger the maf is, but that would increase your limit, although it would mess with timing.

Bernardd

Excellent choice.

mtcookson

iTrader: (2)

90-ish mm... its one big mother. i have the whole engine that it came off of

Bernardd

Update on Lightning maf. The test ended at 5 volts because the sensor will not go beyond 5 volts. That is the max flow and voltage that Lightning maf will output. I wanted to clear that up in case someone is planning to use the data for a vq map.

Bernardd

Another update. I've posted the flow map in .08vdc increments for easy vq map building in the link I provided above.